topic Re: PNC Checking Acct Denied due to Early Warning Services in Personal Finance

PNC Checking Acct Denied due to Early Warning Services

Anonymous — Tue, 09 Jan 2018 23:51:23 GMT

I went into a PNC branch to set up a checking account and was denied due to Early Warning Systems report. As soon as I get the report I can get more info but I don't have any derogs on any other CRAs so I'm guessing it flagged me for recently opening a Charles Schwab acct, and within the last few months getting a Amex BB card, and accounts with Penfed and Navy Fed.

This is annoying because I was going to get the $300 bonus from PNC but I can always try again once it's cleared up. What I wanted to share with you guys is the fact that Early Warning Systems LLC won't let you freeze your report with them. 'Said the CFPB grants them that privilege as a "specialty reporting agency" or something like that. That's a federal entity though, the STATE laws that govern freezes in Missouri where I live, as well as Arizona where the company is based out of, require the ability for consumers to freeze their report. So shouldn't those apply?

This is all my opinion of course. I did some research and a lot of big banks came together to form this CRA, and I really dislike the idea that consumers are unable to get a freeze. I have my attorney sending them a letter, and if I'm unable to get a resolution with them I will be making complaints with the BBB and even try with the CFPB, as well as be taking action in court and suing for damages as a result of what appears to be them violating state law.

Let me know what you guys think. Me personally, I think all the big banks coming together to form a reporting agency in which consumers have less control over is a conflict of interest and not very ethical. I'll keep you guys updated on the status of my experience hopefully we can learn a bit more about them.

Re: PNC Checking Acct Denied due to Early Warning Services

RobertEG — Wed, 10 Jan 2018 00:48:54 GMT

Have you called the CFPB to confirm the existence of the asserted agreement with them?

Re: PNC Checking Acct Denied due to Early Warning Services

Anonymous — Wed, 10 Jan 2018 01:05:32 GMT

@RobertEG wrote:
Have you called the CFPB to confirm the existence of the asserted agreement with them?

I have not, but I certainly will. Thanks for that Robert, good idea.

The supervisor mentioned when she was talking about the CFPB bureau granting an exception since they're a "specialty reporting agency" that they've been in business for 25 years with no problems. But the laws that govern freezes are state laws and Arizona where they are based DOES allow an exception to freezes for "fraud reporting" CRAs, Missouri law does not have a similar exception as far as I can tell. I am sure there are several more states that don't provide this exemption from security freezes.

My attorney is sending them a letter hopefully somebody higher up gets a hold of me and we can work out a freeze. Also, I sent a complaint to my state Attorney General since they seem to be in violation of Missouri Statute. I'm super against a conglomerate of major banks creating their own CRA and then getting special privileges. Seems like an egregious conflict of interest.

Re: PNC Checking Acct Denied due to Early Warning Services

Anonymous — Wed, 10 Jan 2018 03:14:39 GMT

I’m not an expert but having multiple checking accounts wouldn’t be a flag for that. Writing bad checks, having a charged off checking account stuff like that is what gets you on their alerts.

Re: PNC Checking Acct Denied due to Early Warning Services

Anonymous — Wed, 10 Jan 2018 04:22:59 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I’m not an expert but having multiple checking accounts wouldn’t be a flag for that. Writing bad checks, having a charged off checking account stuff like that is what gets you on their alerts.

I have none of those I'm relatively certain. The only possible way any of that happened was identity theft but everything is super clean on my known credit reports and I monitor them constantly, so even that seems unlikely - although certainly possible.

I'm leaning towards the several checking accounts thing or some sort of flag I'm not aware of. I'm not engaged in anything that would be suspicious as far as I know either. Recently I did deposit two $20k+ checks into my personal account but those were from very legitimate sources. I also just opened a checking with USAA to start the relationship with them as I got something in the mail saying I was approved as a full member. No denial there and no denials from recent checking accounts with Navy Fed, Penfed, Charles Schwab, or Amex Bluebird.

Will definitely keep you guys updated. I'm a little annoyed by the fact that they said it can take up to 15 days for them to email me a copy of my Early Warning Services report... If a bank can pull it in 5 seconds to deny me a checking account they should be able to get it to me or let me pull it myself online a lot sooner than 15 days. Alas, patience is a virtue. I just wanna make sure everything is good before I attempt my next mini CC app spree which I was planning in a couple weeks.

Re: PNC Checking Acct Denied due to Early Warning Services

Anonymous — Wed, 10 Jan 2018 04:48:32 GMT

Well at least you are getting the report so you will know for certain. On a side note USAA is the absolute best. I use them for every single product except checking ( wife wants what the wife wants) Car insurance the best.

Re: PNC Checking Acct Denied due to Early Warning Services

Anonymous — Wed, 10 Jan 2018 04:53:44 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Well at least you are getting the report so you will know for certain. On a side note USAA is the absolute best. I use them for every single product except checking ( wife wants what the wife wants) Car insurance the best.

This is off topic but thank you! I didn't think of that. If I can save money on my car insurance AND strengthen my relationship with USAA at the same time which will be awesome. I'm including their low-interest APR card in the next app spree for sure.

Re: PNC Checking Acct Denied due to Early Warning Services

joltdude — Thu, 11 Jan 2018 14:39:09 GMT

Not sure if this is true of banks using EWS vs ChexSystems.. But some banks get skittish if youve opened multiple checking accounts in a short period of time.. which is still one thing that does appear on either specialty report....regardless of score.... Also as you suggested it could be ID Fraud

Re: PNC Checking Acct Denied due to Early Warning Services

sueblue34 — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 02:43:23 GMT

I know that PNC offers a second chance account which you can only get by applying in person and completing a financial class they offer but that’s only if you are in Chex.
EWS is the new head honcho and bank will flat out deny you for any negatives with them.

Re: PNC Checking Acct Denied due to Early Warning Services

Anonymous — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 06:41:02 GMT

EWS is purely a risk control data collector for banks however

they're decent at removing incorrect information, and report is FREE.

Re: PNC Checking Acct Denied due to Early Warning Services

Anonymous — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 15:56:07 GMT

The important next step for our OP (which he realizes) is to obtain copies of his reports. I'd recommend a fresh copy of all five reports: TU, EQ, EX, ChexSystems, and EWS. The first three are easy to get so no reason not to have them in the same snapshot of time.

While our OP does not have those reports (especially EWS) it is probably premature to involve the CFPB, our OP's attorney, the Attorney General, and the BBB. Also premature for us to guess as to what the reports might say or what next steps should be. Pull the reports, go over them carefully, and then circle back with the folks here to develop a plan.

If there is false data, work with EWS on getting it corrected. As always, first try to enlist institutions as allies rather than as opponents.

EWS is best viewed as just another CRA. The history behind every CRA coming into existence probably involved groups (banks, lenders, whatever) wishing to track high risk behavior -- EWS is not fundamentally that much different from CS (just as TU, EX, and EQ are best viewed as Seussian characters like Thing 1, Thing 2, and Thing 3).

After you know a lot more about what might have been going on with your EWS report (reviewing it carefully, comparing it to CS, and then enlisting PNC and EWS as allies in sorting out what might triggered the rejection) then you can explore issues regarding freezing.

An interesting question is whether CS permits freezing.

A final thought. A freeze itself does not solve one's woes regarding approval. Your initial goal was to get approved by PNC. If PNC's policy is to review your EWS report and they are blocked from so doing, then your approval chance may be reduced to zero.

Anyway, interesting situation that you have and I am sure we will all be curious to hear how it develops once you have your reports (especially EWS).

Re: PNC Checking Acct Denied due to Early Warning Services

trusty — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 17:37:51 GMT

@Anonymouswrote:
EWS is purely a risk control data collector for banks however
they're decent at removing incorrect information, and report is FREE.

No matter what they call themselves, they're still a Consumer Reporting Agency. If it walks, talks, acts and quacks, than it's still a duck.

Therefore, they are subject to - or at least should be - the same laws governing providing security freezes to consumers, as such.

Furthermore, there is a huge lack of privacy regarding the information contained within their reports. (i.e. including full account number and routing numbers) For this reason alone, consumers should be allowed to freeze these reports.

Under the guise of preventing fraud... these CRA's certainly do their level best to contribute to it.

In today's tech age, some of this stuff should be common sense. But, since it's not... we have to monitor all of the reports and personal information that's being disseminated about us, without our consent... just floating around out there.

Otherwise, you end up with situations... i.e. data breaches. Here's the rub: huge data breaches wouldn't matter, if these CRA's weren't stupid enough to list the full details of accounts and personal information - right out in the open. Alas, many of them have huge security flaws; because they're obviously more interested in monetizing other people's personal information, than figuring out how to protect other people's personal information.

So, that's why we need laws (which we do have) to protect consumers from companies selling consumer information; companies that apparently can't even figure out - or just don't care - how to keep that information safe.

A civilised society would not allow private companies (i.e. random pirates - with a pirate license) to sell other people's private personal information, without their consent, as well as, compensation. But, I digress.

Re: PNC Checking Acct Denied due to Early Warning Services

Anonymous — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 21:23:26 GMT

trusty ... a well written overview of the whole consumer reporting industry. Sure could use your thinking in the real world (which seems elusive to say the least when it comes to the "it's too big to fail banking world"). Nice job!

Re: PNC Checking Acct Denied due to Early Warning Services

Anonymous — Wed, 09 May 2018 04:56:54 GMT

I spoke to Early Warning Services about placing a security freeze. They said their excempt because their a "Specialty Reporting Agency". That's rediculous, they're report contained the same thing that EQ, EX, etc. had.

Anyway, CFPB shouldn't offer any company special permission to play with fire. This will only lead to more headaches for consumers in the future.

Re: PNC Checking Acct Denied due to Early Warning Services

Anonymous — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 04:42:36 GMT

What pnc did was not legal. Refer to JP Morgan case quoted summary below...
ASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Consumer Financial Protection Bureau said on Wednesday it had ordered JPMorgan Chase & Co to pay $4.6 million for allegedly failing to make sure it reported accurate information for checking account screening reports.

Similar to credit reports, the screenings provided by companies such as Certegy Check Services, ChexSystems and Early Warning Services help institutions decide if a person can open an account. Chase did not have proper procedures to ensure information it gave the companies was true, according to the CFPB. That could have led customers with clean histories to be turned down for bank accounts, or those with negative pasts, such as suspected fraud, to be allowed to open ones...

Re: PNC Checking Acct Denied due to Early Warning Services

Anonymous — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 21:42:37 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I’m not an expert but having multiple checking accounts wouldn’t be a flag for that. Writing bad checks, having a charged off checking account stuff like that is what gets you on their alerts.

Actually it can be.

If one opens multiple checking accounts in a short period of time, that can be considered "risky" to a bank. Why? Because the bank may suspect someone stole your identity and opened multiple accounts under your name.

Re: PNC Checking Acct Denied due to Early Warning Services

Anonymous — Tue, 27 Aug 2019 21:50:26 GMT

Bump

Did we ever get to answer the question to whether EWS is lawfully denying security freezes?

Re: PNC Checking Acct Denied due to Early Warning Services

Anonymous — Tue, 27 Aug 2019 22:30:26 GMT

As this thread is well over a year old and the OP hasn't returned, it's best that if there are questions regarding EWS that they are asked in a new one. Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

This thread now locked.