topic Re: UPDATE! Re: WTH? Patriot act/OFAC requires me to fill out a credit application? in Auto Loans

WTH? Patriot act/OFAC requires me to fill out a credit application?

electra — Mon, 27 May 2013 06:30:14 GMT

...but I already have financing and am not interested in having them run my credit. There's no way they'll beat the rate I have now of 1.79%.

I'm going in to sign the paperwork for my new Audi tomorrow which should be arriving in the next few days. The sales guy told me I have to fill out a credit application, that it's required. I asked him why since I already have financing. He gave me some business about it being a requirement due to the Patriot Act/OFAC. This doesn't sound right to me. He assured me they wouldn't do a HP on my credit but the form he sent pretty clearly states that I'm authorizing them to run my credit. The last time I bought a car from a a dealer which was admittedly in 1997, I just walked in with the check from my bank and 10 minutes later walked out with my new car. There was definitely no credit application. Is this some game they play??

Re: WTH? Patriot act/OFAC requires me to fill out a credit application?

Cageym — Mon, 27 May 2013 06:58:19 GMT

Not true. You can google it but here is one source. And if I found an unauthorized HP on my CR from these guys I would report them. http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/car-dealership-credit-report-scams-and-the-patriot-act.html

Re: WTH? Patriot act/OFAC requires me to fill out a credit application?

electra — Mon, 27 May 2013 13:41:00 GMT

@Cageym wrote:
Not true. You can google it but here is one source. And if I found an unauthorized HP on my CR from these guys I would report them. http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/car-dealership-credit-report-scams-and-the-patriot-act.html

Thanks Cageym. I didn't think it sounded right.

Not sure how to handle this. Don't want to come out and call the guy a liar or anything. Maybe I'll just say that I'm not signing that and give them a letter I type up with the required information which also states that i do not give them permission to pull my credit?

Re: WTH? Patriot act/OFAC requires me to fill out a credit application?

webhopper — Mon, 27 May 2013 15:03:57 GMT

@electra wrote:
...but I already have financing and am not interested in having them run my credit. There's no way they'll beat the rate I have now of 1.79%.

I'm going in to sign the paperwork for my new Audi tomorrow which should be arriving in the next few days. The sales guy told me I have to fill out a credit application, that it's required. I asked him why since I already have financing. He gave me some business about it being a requirement due to the Patriot Act/OFAC. This doesn't sound right to me. He assured me they wouldn't do a HP on my credit but the form he sent pretty clearly states that I'm authorizing them to run my credit. The last time I bought a car from a a dealer which was admittedly in 1997, I just walked in with the check from my bank and 10 minutes later walked out with my new car. There was definitely no credit application. Is this some game they play??

BTW its not a requirement, I did not fill out a credit application when I bought my new Volvo, I was using NFCU financing.

If you have a passport, definately bring it to the dealership. Also, bring your drivers license and birth certificate.

Re: WTH? Patriot act/OFAC requires me to fill out a credit application?

webhopper — Mon, 27 May 2013 15:05:50 GMT

If you do have to fill something out, right across it "NO Credit Pulls authorized" and take a photo with your smartphone.

Also, you could threaten to walk away to another dealership.... and be prepared to do it if they push this issue

Re: WTH? Patriot act/OFAC requires me to fill out a credit application?

electra — Mon, 27 May 2013 15:56:26 GMT

Thanks Webhopper. Walking awy would be complicated because this car is in very high demand. There were none of them in my desired configuration in all of Northern CA. I had to order one which was in transit from Germany. I have given a $500 depost, have a VIN and have already insured that car. I have already sold my car and have been driving a friend's and would like to give it back ASAP.

Maybe I'll just write across it, "I do not consent to a credit pull" and photograph it. I'm also thinking maybe I should freeze my credit reports? Would this prevent them being able to do a HP?

Re: WTH? Patriot act/OFAC requires me to fill out a credit application?

Revelate — Mon, 27 May 2013 22:58:31 GMT

@electra wrote:
Thanks Webhopper. Walking awy would be complicated because this car is in very high demand. There were none of them in my desired configuration in all of Northern CA. I had to order one which was in transit from Germany. I have given a $500 depost, have a VIN and have already insured that car. I have already sold my car and have been driving a friend's and would like to give it back ASAP.

Maybe I'll just write across it, "I do not consent to a credit pull" and photograph it. I'm also thinking maybe I should freeze my credit reports? Would this prevent them being able to do a HP?

Yes, but assuming you obtained the NFCU financing recently, it won't make any difference to your score.

IIRC your file correctly, you're probably right that that the rate can't be beat; however, on a new car, in the current economy, I'd probably ask them what their financing tiers are and if they had a 0% one, it may be worth trying. This is especially true if you have prior successful auto loans, but it's specific to the car manufacturer's lender as an incentive to buy the car. If the car is in that high of demand as you suggest, you're probably paying near or above MSRP anyway so negotiating price on financing is probably minimal, sellers market.

Mortgage / Auto inquiries get rolled up within an explicit time window to score as a single inquiry in the FICO model; I traditionally go by the FICO '04 model and that window is 30 days, though personally I try to cluster them into a two week period just in the off chance I get an older model pulled.

Edit: I can't find anything historically that suggests they go below 2% even for tier 1 in 2013; I'd tell em to pound sand on the inquiry personally.

UPDATE! Re: WTH? Patriot act/OFAC requires me to fill out a credit application?

electra — Tue, 28 May 2013 03:58:55 GMT

OK, so I went in to the dealership to do the paperwork. I brought in the credit application but I only filled out my name, address (and prior since we moved in Jan), DOB, DL # and SSN. Additionally I crossed through the section which stated I was giving my permission for credit pull and also wrote in large capital letters "NO CREDIT PULLS AUTHORIZED". I told him I knew that the only thing they were required to do was to meet OFAC compliance requirements by checking me against the list and verifying my identity and they could do that without pulling my credit. He played dumb, said he'd never heard of such a thing and that I was the only person who had EVER asked to not have their credit pulled. (Yeah, right.) He then goes off to the finance guy and comes back with some form that it was obvious he'd never seen before and asked me to fill it out....including the check boxes where I guess I was supposed to say whether I saw any red flags or weird behavior...in myself. LOL. I told him I thought they were probably supposed to fill out that part. He goes off again and after a while comes back and says the finance guy is ready for me. I go sit with the finance guy and explain to him that I have an interest rate that I'm certain they can't beat and I'm not interested in having any more hits on my credit report. We talk a little about that and he doesn't deny that they are unable to beat it. He then says that we have a problem because he has no way to run an OFAC check on me without running my credit report. I express surprise that such a high end dealership wouldn't have access to one of the many products which are available to do OFAC checks. He looks over the form with me a few times and says how he just doesn't have any way to fill it out and he and the dealership can get in trouble if they don't complete the check. I just sit back and listen patiently not budging on the credit report thing. Suddenly, he "remembers" that he does indeed have access to such a product! Surprise!! And while filling it out I notice that he seems quite familiar with it actually. He completes the OFAC check, asks me 4 VERID questions which I pass of course. electra 1: dealership 0

Amusingly, he then goes on to say that he's going to draw up a contract for me to sign with "backup financing" in case I take off with their car and they don't get their money. He asks me the term of my loan and how much I'm paying. He's filling it all in in the contract as I tell him. I stop myself and ask him why my loan terms are even relevent and how they apply here. He says again how they need to protect themselves in case I somehow run off with the car. He erases what he put in before (my NFCU terms) and fills out a contract with 2.99% "backup" financing. I point out that A) they don't have the car yet so I'm certainly not leaving with it and B) before delivering the car to me I'm going to hand over checks paying it off in full. He continues down this path, asking me to imagine their position with me having the car and them not getting paid. I patiently again point out that's not the scenario in this case. At this point, sensing I'm once again not budging, he says that there's only one other option which is "cash on delivery". Says I can't have the keys until I hand over the check(s). Um, schyeah, duh!! BINGO! Buy that man a cookie.

electra 2: dealership 0

Man, I hate these reindeer games!!

Re: UPDATE! Re: WTH? Patriot act/OFAC requires me to fill out a credit application?

Revelate — Tue, 28 May 2013 04:04:45 GMT

That's just wierd. I'll admit their S and R8 respectively are pretty sweet cars, but between the maintenance nightmares I've heard and your own experience guess I won't ever be buying one of those.

It's not uncommon for dealerships (even Acura which is still a competitor of theirs AFAIK) to take the car off the lot before financing comes through, and worst case take it back if the lender doesn't approve terms. That's typically the case if you're going with dealer financing even, as they don't usually shop the loans to respective financial institutions until the end of the day in my experience and stories I've heard from some F&I guys.

I know you want this car badly but these people suck, and I'm vicariously offended for you on general principle .

Re: UPDATE! Re: WTH? Patriot act/OFAC requires me to fill out a credit application?

Cageym — Tue, 28 May 2013 04:16:02 GMT

I bought my new Jeep through www.encs.com, which is the military buying service. Then I financed it through NFCU and sent the draft to ENCS. They pay the manufacturer and the local dealer's only function here is as a delivery point. I don't pick it up until August but I'm sure I'll let everyone know how it went.

Re: UPDATE! Re: WTH? Patriot act/OFAC requires me to fill out a credit application?

electra — Tue, 28 May 2013 04:20:29 GMT

LOL, Revelate, I'm offended too especially given the other crappy thing they did that i didn't mention which was that they refused to take my NFCU pre-auth draft check. Said they will only take those from USAA and no one else. (Why?? He couldn't really tell me.)

SO, now I just called NFCU to get an actual check in the actual amount and I have 2 options:

A) Drive to the nearest branch where they will convert the check for me. Nearest branches are both over 100 miles away. 1 is in Vacaville which will require me to drive through SF (YUCK...no thanks) or 2 is in Monterey...on the Naval Postgraduate school grounds where...I can't get in because I don't have a military ID.

B) Cancel the pre-auth draft check and submit a new request which willl possibly take up to 48 hours to complete AND possibly result in another hit to my CRs.

I chose B. She said she would request they not run my credit again.

Re: UPDATE! Re: WTH? Patriot act/OFAC requires me to fill out a credit application?

electra — Tue, 28 May 2013 04:27:29 GMT

cageym, man, I wish I qualified for that buying service. I kinda thought that's what I'd get with the USAA, NFCU and Costco buying services but they were all pretty lame...at least when it comes to Audi.

Congrats on your Jeep!! Let us know how it goes!

Re: UPDATE! Re: WTH? Patriot act/OFAC requires me to fill out a credit application?

Cageym — Tue, 28 May 2013 05:26:51 GMT

I will Electra, and this service is only for people overseas. I'm retired AF and a contractor over here so I'm allowed to use the service. Based on what I saw for prices in the area I live in the states I saved about 3k to 4k.

Re: UPDATE! Re: WTH? Patriot act/OFAC requires me to fill out a credit application?

Anonymous — Tue, 28 May 2013 05:53:43 GMT

Electra:

A dealer in Serramonte was trying to play games with me as well. Must be a bay area dealer tradition. Their games were mostly with pricing as that was my number 1 priority.

I went in with USAA financing, and all they wanted to do was get me to fill out the credit app. Took a couple weeks to settle on pricing, so I think they were sick of me by the time it came to financing. That made it go a little smoother. Although, they tried getting money in every way they could. I did eventually give in to letting them pull my reports and they gave me 0%.

Are you 100% sure there is no place with a lower rate for you? I think with fico scoring the way it is, you might just let them pull your scores.

Re: UPDATE! Re: WTH? Patriot act/OFAC requires me to fill out a credit application?

electra — Tue, 28 May 2013 13:01:36 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Electra:

A dealer in Serramonte was trying to play games with me as well. Must be a bay area dealer tradition. Their games were mostly with pricing as that was my number 1 priority.

I went in with USAA financing, and all they wanted to do was get me to fill out the credit app. Took a couple weeks to settle on pricing, so I think they were sick of me by the time it came to financing. That made it go a little smoother. Although, they tried getting money in every way they could. I did eventually give in to letting them pull my reports and they gave me 0%.

Are you 100% sure there is no place with a lower rate for you? I think with fico scoring the way it is, you might just let them pull your scores.

Hey Dustink, yeah, I poked around a bunch on Audi forums and the like and couldn't find anyone mentioning getting a better interest rate than 1.9% and I have 1.79%. Even the Audi finance guy didn't try to claim they could get a better rate when I asked. Plus I love Navy, they've been very good to me so even if these guys could match or save me a couple bucks a month, in the end it's not worth it to me for the unknown of who I'd be dealing with vs continuing to build my relationship with Navy. Also, while I know additional car HPs don't impact score, I don't want them littering my CRs either.

Honestly, I would have just gone to another dealer but I called and looked around all over and no one has this car in this configuration. At that price, I want what I want so I'm willing to deal with their BS to some degree (and I suppose they know it).

Re: UPDATE! Re: WTH? Patriot act/OFAC requires me to fill out a credit application?

electra — Tue, 28 May 2013 13:04:30 GMT

Oh, and forgot to mention that I woke up this morning to a text message from NFCU that my check is on it's way!! Called to confirm they are FedExing it (no charge) and I should receive it tomorrow! NFCU

Re: UPDATE! Re: WTH? Patriot act/OFAC requires me to fill out a credit application?

DiabolicallyRandom — Tue, 28 May 2013 14:57:15 GMT

This situation is insanity! Regardless of how much and how fast you want the car, they have to realize that there would be a breaking point. Its not like they have financing to dangle over your head, you could easily take your business else where, they are the ones with limited options. Other than their A-holiness, congrats on your car on the terms you want!

Re: UPDATE! Re: WTH? Patriot act/OFAC requires me to fill out a credit application?

Anonymous — Tue, 28 May 2013 15:22:24 GMT

@electra wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Electra:

A dealer in Serramonte was trying to play games with me as well. Must be a bay area dealer tradition. Their games were mostly with pricing as that was my number 1 priority.

I went in with USAA financing, and all they wanted to do was get me to fill out the credit app. Took a couple weeks to settle on pricing, so I think they were sick of me by the time it came to financing. That made it go a little smoother. Although, they tried getting money in every way they could. I did eventually give in to letting them pull my reports and they gave me 0%.

Are you 100% sure there is no place with a lower rate for you? I think with fico scoring the way it is, you might just let them pull your scores.
Hey Dustink, yeah, I poked around a bunch on Audi forums and the like and couldn't find anyone mentioning getting a better interest rate than 1.9% and I have 1.79%. Even the Audi finance guy didn't try to claim they could get a better rate when I asked. Plus I love Navy, they've been very good to me so even if these guys could match or save me a couple bucks a month, in the end it's not worth it to me for the unknown of who I'd be dealing with vs continuing to build my relationship with Navy. Also, while I know additional car HPs don't impact score, I don't want them littering my CRs either.

Honestly, I would have just gone to another dealer but I called and looked around all over and no one has this car in this configuration. At that price, I want what I want so I'm willing to deal with their BS to some degree (and I suppose they know it).

good to see you have a solid plan.

They also know you are kind of stuck with them. So, they will lay on the BS.

Re: UPDATE! Re: WTH? Patriot act/OFAC requires me to fill out a credit application?

Anonymous — Tue, 28 May 2013 15:23:58 GMT

@electra wrote:
Oh, and forgot to mention that I woke up this morning to a text message from NFCU that my check is on it's way!! Called to confirm they are FedExing it (no charge) and I should receive it tomorrow! NFCU

Awesome!

Be sure to write a lovely yelp review for the dealership Be specific about what they have done.

Re: UPDATE! Re: WTH? Patriot act/OFAC requires me to fill out a credit application?

electra — Tue, 28 May 2013 23:12:25 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@electra wrote:
Oh, and forgot to mention that I woke up this morning to a text message from NFCU that my check is on it's way!! Called to confirm they are FedExing it (no charge) and I should receive it tomorrow! NFCU
Awesome!

Be sure to write a lovely yelp review for the dealership Be specific about what they have done.

Oh yes, I'm a big believer in Yelp. That is definitely on my list. I'm waiting until I get delivery so I can describe the whole experience.