topic I don't understand why dealers lie to us. in Auto Loans

I don't understand why dealers lie to us.

ah32 — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 00:40:51 GMT

I test drove a car yesterday at the BMW dealership, but was interested in a few they had on their lot, so I discussed pulling my credit. I asked them if we can ask to only pull transunion. He said we can ask them to pull whatever we want. He had been in finance and seemed very knowledgeable.

So, sure enough, all three were pulled. I don't understand. I felt comfortable with him and believed he would follow through and only pull transunion. He said it with confidence, so I didn't worry. I guess it doesn't matter, but now I don't feel comfortable going forward with the deal. I've been texting him and he said he wouldn't have gone through with the app had he only been able to pull TU. I don't understand. I hate car buying!! I'm so irritated. Time for some wine.

Re: I don't understand why dealers lie to us.

ah32 — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 00:43:09 GMT

On top of that, I asked them only to send to BMW financial yet they had credco pull my credit. I didn't agree to this. Do I have just reason to dispute the inquiries?

Re: I don't understand why dealers lie to us.

Anonymous — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 00:52:09 GMT

If they told the truth, they will never make any money you know.... Lets face it, he was not completely honest with you. Since you already have your credit pulled, may as well read the fine print word for word and buy the car.

Going to another dealership = more hard pulls..

Re: I don't understand why dealers lie to us.

ah32 — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 00:57:52 GMT

I left before applying in person. We did the app over the phone today. I talked about credit more than the car. He knew how I felt and I made it very clear. I think he was tiring of hearing it, but I wanted there to be no confusion. So irritating. I told him my thoughts and how I had planned to pay down my balances next week, but wasn't sure how much it would change my score. I knew that I would be within the 14 day mark if I needed to app again. I feel betrayed. If they're willing to lie so early within the process...

Re: I don't understand why dealers lie to us.

MarvBear — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 01:27:31 GMT

First American credco is a major supplier of bureaus for both the automotive industry and the mortgage industry

Re: I don't understand why dealers lie to us.

flan — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 02:39:40 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
If they told the truth, they will never make any money you know.... Lets face it, he was not completely honest with you. Since you already have your credit pulled, may as well read the fine print word for word and buy the car.

Going to another dealership = more hard pulls..

Buying from the liar rewards him for lying.

Re: I don't understand why dealers lie to us.

Anonymous — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 04:22:21 GMT

@flan wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
If they told the truth, they will never make any money you know.... Lets face it, he was not completely honest with you. Since you already have your credit pulled, may as well read the fine print word for word and buy the car.

Going to another dealership = more hard pulls..
Buying from the liar rewards him for lying.

I know.. But the other dealerships are no different you know..

Re: I don't understand why dealers lie to us.

StartingOver10 — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 11:44:30 GMT

I agree that many sales reps and F&I guys lie in the dealerships. That doesn't mean they all lie. It does mean that you have to take whatever they say with a grain of salt and not allow them the opportunity to run your credit. If you only want one CRA run, then you protect yourself and your credit by freezing the other CRAs before you start to shop.

Or better yet, get your approval from anywhere else and never let them run your credit even if they claim they can beat the interest rate, because that too is most likely a lie.

Buying from the guy that outright lied to you so boldly is rewarding him for lying. Personally, I wouldn't do it, but each of us makes our own decision to award the sale as we see fit.

OP, I am not blaming you. When shopping it is easy to fall for the assurances of the dealership rep because he is telling you what you (and I) want to hear. Note also that most of the sales reps believe what they are saying at the time they are saying it - so it makes it tough to spot the lie(s) in your conversation with these dealership reps.

If you want to see what they actually think of us as consumers, just search youtube for videos on auto sales training. It's a real eye-opener. Needless to say they think most of us are outright stupid and they train their sales reps and F&I people to take advantage of it. It will cure you of any idea that the rep or the F&I department is truthful. Remember, their only accountability is to the volume of deals they do - and they don't care how they get there or what they have to say to make a sale. Not all of them, but certainly a vast majority IMO.

The vehicle dealerships will never change unless the consumers refuse to be treated badly. Sorry, off soap box.

Re: I don't understand why dealers lie to us.

CreditCuriosity — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 12:46:47 GMT

Yep when I go car shopping now I go in with them all froozen.. I say pick one that you want me to unfroozen, it worked for me.. Before I knew better I have had tons of pulls a day on each bureau rate shopping me. It really depends on the dealership to be honest and if they value their reputation and wanting future business from you whether they lie to you and shotgun your app out for their benefit. Anyways, live and learn

Re: I don't understand why dealers lie to us.

TRC_WA — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 16:39:00 GMT

Sometimes dealers lie their way right out of a sale.

The first Dodge dealership told me I had to put $7k down to close the deal on my Challenger... yep... I had to. The lender(s) wouldn't budge.

So I left and drove 20 miles south to the next dealership and got the exact same car (only difference was color) for $0 down... which is what I wanted. I wasn't interested in putting $5k down to save $60 a month on a payment... I just went with loan/lease payoff (GAP) with Progressive for $17 a month.

Re: I don't understand why dealers lie to us.

04Cobra — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 17:40:37 GMT

Dealers do all they can to make a sale. I used to be in car sales and quite honestly, I hated every bit of it. Word of advice, try to get a pre-approval from your local bank before car shopping.

Re: I don't understand why dealers lie to us.

camera_jen — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 15:04:03 GMT

Because the sales guy will tell you what you want to hear in order to make a sale. He really has no control over the financing department.

Re: I don't understand why dealers lie to us.

Anonymous — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 21:18:54 GMT

@04Cobra wrote:
Dealers do all they can to make a sale. I used to be in car sales and quite honestly, I hated every bit of it. Word of advice, try to get a pre-approval from your local bank before car shopping.

Agree 100%.

Re: I don't understand why dealers lie to us.

patrick00032001 — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 21:46:25 GMT

Our dealership doesn't even pull credit for a transaction, I have about 6 lenders I use, I know what bureau they use, and what formula they score with, some use a classic model, some use auto enhanced, and they all pull TransUnion. My boss told me 8 years ago when he hired me to build his finance department, he was against us pulling a credit bureau, for one, it costs us extra, and why? When the credit union or bank will pull it anyways? His philosophy is, this keeps every one honest, and makes the deal clean, and hes right, it just gives the dealer another way to lie to a lender, especially about income, the bureau will state your debts and monthly payments, if the dealer sees on your bureau you dont budget due to DTI issues, this gives him an angle to pad your income, and most indirect lenders dont stip for income! I have seen and heard so much over the years being in this business, it can be down right dirty!

Re: I don't understand why dealers lie to us.

Anonymous — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 21:52:26 GMT

Doubt it. You just never know with them. They pulled EQ & EX with me. Only through BMW. Maybe it was the type of financing you wanted?

Re: I don't understand why dealers lie to us.

Anonymous — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 22:42:44 GMT

@ Patrick

I actually see your point clearly. I never actually understood why income mattered and what stated income if written on paper had anything to do with buying. The Dealership/Finance Mgr/Salesman is there to get you in a car on best possible terms. He doesn't want that you not buy a car because of your income. Its for the buyer to figure out whether or not he can afford it. If the buyer ends up defaulting on the loan it then becomes the buyers responsibility.

The other point you make is about debts. If there are REPOS CURRENTdefaults/lates or collections in amounts higher than the car payment itself, that will forever be a problem. ANYTHING 4+ years from DOFD, is irrelevant in financing thru dealership.

My experience with credit Unions has been that they need to verify all income/assets/debts before they can issue a car loan. so all W2's 1099 income or tax returns is a must. Also, unless you have another current car loan/other loan in progress that you are making payments on they are not willing to loan you an auto loan. It is their way of confirming income knowing that last year payments have been made on time and in the required amounts.

So most INDIRECT LENDERS dont actually pad for your income.

I believe now how financing at dealership matters and works. very great insights. 4

Re: I don't understand why dealers lie to us.

patrick00032001 — Sat, 18 Apr 2015 18:03:24 GMT

You misunderstood my post, I said it gives a dealer an angle to pad your income, not the indirect lender, obviously no lender would loan money to a customer if they dont meet their credit lending standards, based on whats written down on paper.

Re: I don't understand why dealers lie to us.

surferchris — Tue, 21 Apr 2015 22:23:20 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@04Cobra wrote:
Dealers do all they can to make a sale. I used to be in car sales and quite honestly, I hated every bit of it. Word of advice, try to get a pre-approval from your local bank before car shopping.
Agree 100%.

Double agree

Re: I don't understand why dealers lie to us.

Anonymous — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 18:44:17 GMT

what do you know are lending standards of lenders whether direct or indirect? how does one qualify based on income of $ 50000 but high DTI ratio? almost 48% DTI.

How much DTI should be to qualify?

Re: I don't understand why dealers lie to us.

Existentialist — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 19:21:01 GMT

@ah32 wrote:
I test drove a car yesterday at the BMW dealership, but was interested in a few they had on their lot, so I discussed pulling my credit. I asked them if we can ask to only pull transunion. He said we can ask them to pull whatever we want. He had been in finance and seemed very knowledgeable.

So, sure enough, all three were pulled. I don't understand. I felt comfortable with him and believed he would follow through and only pull transunion. He said it with confidence, so I didn't worry. I guess it doesn't matter, but now I don't feel comfortable going forward with the deal. I've been texting him and he said he wouldn't have gone through with the app had he only been able to pull TU. I don't understand. I hate car buying!! I'm so irritated. Time for some wine.

This is a common dilemma so you're not alone but know this... Its a dog eat dog world.... thats all there is to it. And car dealerships in particular.... will always do & say whats in their best interests not yours. Doesnt make them necessarily bad - to them its just bizness. And thats exactly how U need to approach it. Its important to know this going in. Therefore b4 U even hit the lot u need not only to set your terms up front but walk in with your own financing in hand (there's a reason dealerships want to finance U). Once U relinquish control... things become much more difficult. The car buying process can be unsettling enuff but arming yourself in advance is key.

One thing to note: since car buying has regained momentum (sans financial crisis) its not quite as easy to negotiate certain deals but U can still find a happy median. They want to make a sale and U want to buy without being taken to the cleaners. If U really want to reboot (with a different dealership cuz of the bad taste left in your mouth) thats fine cuz extra pulls arent going to be much more of an issue given they're within the same general timeframe(?) and are related to your car purchasing. Just proceed bearing in mind that its not personal but about bizness. They're looking out for theirs - so U look out for yours. Best of luck.