topic Re: Unnecessary Inquiries by Kia Dealer (Already Approved) in Auto Loans

Unnecessary Inquiries by Kia Dealer (Already Approved)

RESgrignoli — Fri, 01 May 2015 22:48:47 GMT

Situation: Submitted financing application DIRECT (online) to Kia Motors Finance (KMF) for their Top Tier financing and was approved by KMF. When I went to the dealer to secure my new 2016 Sorento SXL, I presented them the Approval Certificate from KMF which was still valid (did not pass the certificate expiration date) and emphasized that I was going with the financing through Kia Motors Finance. As they were doing the paperwork, after a while, the salesperson came out of the one office and apologized for the delay and added that they were still attempting to secure my loan with various banks. I retorted, "What are you talking about?!!! I'm already approved with Kia Motors Finance, and THAT is what I intend to go with. I have the Top Tier financing!!!" The salesperson returned to that office to relay my dissatisfaction, then came out a short while later and gave the 'thumbs up' with Kia Motors.

Now, I'm seeing NUMEROUS hard inquiries on my report (which I expect when a dealer does "shotgun" inquiries)...and based on what is generally said, these multiple inquiries should be counted as "one"...but...just querying the masses as to whether you have had experience where they actually did NOT count as "one" and actually counted as "individual" (unrelated) hard inquiries, thus greatly impacting your score. If they are NOT seen as "one" inquiry, is there a way to challenge that...perhaps by obtaining a letter from the dealer stating which banks he ran the inquiries to (which should include KMF, as well)...then being that my ORIGINAL approved application to KMF was on "X date" and the vehicle was financed through KMF on "X date", any/all other auto inquiries during this period by the Kia dealer should be seen as "frivilous" and unnecessary.

Thanks.

Richard

Re: Unnecessary Inquiries by Kia Dealer (Already Approved)

0REDSOX7 — Sat, 02 May 2015 01:36:55 GMT

This happened a while back with me with Honda... I applied online and got approved. Went in with the certificate and was told because they hadn't done the credit pull themselves, they could not accept it and needed to do it again. Me being naive, I accepted and got the same terms, but with seven or eight other inquiries, too.

I believe from a scoring purpose, multiple auto inquiries within 30 days only impacts your score as one, BUT, other lenders may deny you (say for a credit card) due to the number of inquiries you have... So, it is not as simple, at least to me, as multiple inquires count as one, because it doesn't appear to hold true...

Re: Unnecessary Inquiries by Kia Dealer (Already Approved)

ezdriver — Sat, 02 May 2015 12:48:59 GMT

I would refuse to buy from a dealer that pulled a stunt like that on me. The dealer could have contacted Kia directly but I think the dealer was looking to make more money on the financing than they make with Kia financing. Shady practice.

Re: Unnecessary Inquiries by Kia Dealer (Already Approved)

TRC_WA — Sat, 02 May 2015 16:36:48 GMT

@0REDSOX7 wrote:

I believe from a scoring purpose, multiple auto inquiries within 30 days only impacts your score as one, BUT, other lenders may deny you (say for a credit card) due to the number of inquiries you have... So, it is not as simple, at least to me, as multiple inquires count as one, because it doesn't appear to hold true...

That's correct. They count as one as far as your score goes... but the multiple INQs still show up on your reports and you can still be denied credit based on too many INQs.

I took 18 inquiries spread across the 3 CRAs in January while looking for a lender to finance my $40k car with $0 down... I lost 1 point on EQ... the first INQ. Didn't lose any on TU or EX.

About a week later I applied for a CC CLI and was denied for too many inquiries.

Re: Unnecessary Inquiries by Kia Dealer (Already Approved)

Creditaddict — Sat, 02 May 2015 17:06:33 GMT

YOU DO NOT FILL OUT A CREDIT APP IF YOU ARE NOT FINANCING OR YOU HAVE FINANCING ALREADY>>> DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT!

They will tell you they have to have it for verification = LIE

They will tell you government requires it = LIE

I really don't get why and what they get out of it by running credit they don't need.

Even my recent Nissan lease... While they only pulled 1 report at dealer from all 3 and Nissan pulled 1 report from EX itself... WHY did the dealership pull all 3? Nissan ONLY uses EX and they know that!? but I can live with 3.

When I'm applying for financing and it's ONLY for the BRAND I'm shopping for, I write on the application this is permission to send to NISSAN ONLY... basically I AM NOT RATE SHOPPING so don't you dare bounce this to other banks!

Re: Unnecessary Inquiries by Kia Dealer (Already Approved)

Anonymous — Mon, 04 May 2015 20:27:38 GMT

Ugh. I think I was the victim of this last week and I'm trying to find out what, if anything, I can do about it.

When I went in for the test drive (to Honda) I told them they did not have permission to pull my credit report and if I came back to the dealership I would be coming with my own financing.

Went back to the dealer a week later. I told him I had my own financing and after we negotiated our price, he requested a "5 line" telling me he needed name, address, phone and SS# for OFAC. I was extremely hesitant. I wrote my information on a piece of paper so as not to say my SS# outloud in the dealership. The salesman put it into the computer. He comes back with a form that has the info on it. Said I need to sign it. I refused as it said it was a credit app. We argued for about 10 minutes and he went to get a finance guy (jerk) who came over and explained the OFAC thing AGAIN and that it had to be on an "offical" form.

I said I was fine with OFAC, but they did not have permission to run my credit because I was NOT interested in them beating my rate I already had and I refused to give them a chance to beat it.

They both sat there telling me the form was not a credit app it was for OFAC only and being naive I signed it.

Looking back now I am KICKING myself for not walking or at the very least not signing the form or writing on it that it was for OFAC only.

Sure enough, I checked my credit report last night and there is a hard inquiry on there.

I'm frustrated and really mad at myself, I did SO much research before I went car shopping and thought I was well prepared but I was not well prepared for this part.

I sent them a scathing email this morning. They won't tell me anything via email or text, they want me to either call or come in to 'talk' about what happened.

Can I ask them to remove the inquiry or do I not have a leg to stand on because I signed it? At the very least I am contacting Honda corporate and will leave negative online reviews which I know will piss them off.

Thanks for any advice

Laura

PS: Since getting financing approval from two credit unions one at 2.29% and one at 2.59% (I comparison shopped between the two) and this damn dealer inquiry my credit score dropped 16 points in a week

Re: Unnecessary Inquiries by Kia Dealer (Already Approved)

jim44 — Mon, 04 May 2015 20:30:20 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Ugh. I think I was the victim of this last week and I'm trying to find out what, if anything, I can do about it.

When I went in for the test drive (to Honda) I told them they did not have permission to pull my credit report and if I came back to the dealership I would be coming with my own financing.

Went back to the dealer a week later. I told him I had my own financing and after we negotiated our price, he requested a "5 line" telling me he needed name, address, phone and SS# for OFAC. I was extremely hesitant. I wrote my information on a piece of paper so as not to say my SS# outloud in the dealership. The salesman put it into the computer. He comes back with a form that has the info on it. Said I need to sign it. I refused as it said it was a credit app. We argued for about 10 minutes and he went to get a finance guy (jerk) who came over and explained the OFAC thing AGAIN and that it had to be on an "offical" form.

I said I was fine with OFAC, but they did not have permission to run my credit because I was NOT interested in them beating my rate I already had and I refused to give them a chance to beat it.

They both sat there telling me the form was not a credit app it was for OFAC only and being naive I signed it.

Looking back now I am KICKING myself for not walking or at the very least not signing the form or writing on it that it was for OFAC only.

Sure enough, I checked my credit report last night and there is a hard inquiry on there.

I'm frustrated and really mad at myself, I did SO much research before I went car shopping and thought I was well prepared but I was not well prepared for this part.
I sent them a scathing email this morning. They won't tell me anything via email or text, they want me to either call or come in to 'talk' about what happened.

Can I ask them to remove the inquiry or do I not have a leg to stand on because I signed it? At the very least I am contacting Honda corporate and will leave negative online reviews which I know will piss them off.

Thanks for any advice

Laura

IMHO I think they handed you a line or crap although I don't totally understand the OFAC list totally and whether car dealers are required by the Red Flag rule to check each and every customer. When you complain, the best way to make a difference is to leave an online review and to also be sure to let the dealership know you will be spreading the word concerning their deceptive sales tactics. Remember the old " a happy customer will tell one person... a unhappy customer will tell 10."

Re: Unnecessary Inquiries by Kia Dealer (Already Approved)

StartingOver10 — Mon, 04 May 2015 20:33:07 GMT

What form did they have you sign? Did it look like an application or something else?

I routinely change forms - cross out items that i don't agree with and take a photo/pdf copy of it before submitting. Camscanner is a free app. That way you have proof of what you allowed and what you crossed out. JMO. At a minimum you will scare the heck out of the F&I guy - and they won't mess with you. I agree with the above, they took advantage of you.

Re: Unnecessary Inquiries by Kia Dealer (Already Approved)

Anonymous — Mon, 04 May 2015 20:38:53 GMT

It looked like a credit application which is why I was fighting them on it.

Does anyone know if hard inquiries be removed if requested?

I got an email from the GM, he wants to know what happened.

Re: Unnecessary Inquiries by Kia Dealer (Already Approved)

Creditaddict — Mon, 04 May 2015 20:45:45 GMT

They tried to do that to me when we paid cash for my partners fiat... If you ain't financing NO CREDIT app... He pushed and argued for quite a while about verification for government... I told him that was false and if that's what he is being trained he should look into it because it's a lie.
Eventually a manager came and asked if I was sure I didn't want cheap financing and I said no and the form went away.
I think sometimes management even thinks they need a credit app as part of buying and they do not!!!

In the end if you bought a car another one from them won't matter but it is maddening that they do such shady things and I would probably write on the dealer Facebook that you explicitly told them no pulls and you had financing and they still did it behind your back and it leaves a bad taste to be a customer of such a dealership now... At least some others will see it and maybe they will contact you and agree to remove the inq or else just put it behind you and enjoy your car

Re: Unnecessary Inquiries by Kia Dealer (Already Approved)

Anonymous — Mon, 04 May 2015 20:57:10 GMT

I ended up buying the car from them because they gave it to me at the price I wanted and they gave me $800 more on my trade than I was offered at a previous dealer OR privately (my car was literally falling apart and needed much more in repairs than it was worth...I limped it into the dealer with a shoddy welding job and I hope they lost money on it) so I put up with their 'dealer games' for the day but I am really mad about this one and feel really icky about my purchase now.

Wish I had seen this particular forum while gathering info.

Thank you all for being so responsive.

I plan to email the GM tonight with the details and see what he has to say. Not sure they can even remedy the situation.

Re: Unnecessary Inquiries by Kia Dealer (Already Approved)

CreditCuriosity — Mon, 04 May 2015 21:21:43 GMT

BTW OFAC is essentially a terrist watch list for those wondering for the fed gov't, just happened to read this thread. I wrote software for a company I use to work for that put different pieces of information together from our customer (no SSN) being name, address, city, state, DOB and whatever we could get from them and had to send it to a Gov't agency and would essentially get probability hits if they were a felon, etc.. It has been along time since I wrote this extract that was transmitted I believe on a daily basis, but once again it didn't have SSN's..Most business that deal with money must be OFAC compliment from what I remember.. I can see how the dealer used that as a BS excuse as you would of been ran through OFAC, but ssn wouldn't of been needed.

Re: Unnecessary Inquiries by Kia Dealer (Already Approved)

RESgrignoli — Mon, 04 May 2015 22:20:01 GMT

Yeah, now that I recall more, they did give me that OFAC ("terrorist watch") line of crap, as well, when I signed that form.

Re: Unnecessary Inquiries by Kia Dealer (Already Approved)

MarineVietVet — Mon, 04 May 2015 23:39:09 GMT

@StartingOver10 wrote:
What form did they have you sign? Did it look like an application or something else?

I routinely change forms - cross out items that i don't agree with and take a photo/pdf copy of it before submitting. Camscanner is a free app. That way you have proof of what you allowed and what you crossed out. JMO. At a minimum you will scare the heck out of the F&I guy - and they won't mess with you. I agree with the above, they took advantage of you.

Never heard of that. But I'm not a big "apps" guy.

Thanks for the tip.

Re: Unnecessary Inquiries by Kia Dealer (Already Approved)

StartingOver10 — Mon, 04 May 2015 23:44:48 GMT

@MarineVietVet wrote:
@StartingOver10 wrote:
What form did they have you sign? Did it look like an application or something else?

I routinely change forms - cross out items that i don't agree with and take a photo/pdf copy of it before submitting. Camscanner is a free app. That way you have proof of what you allowed and what you crossed out. JMO. At a minimum you will scare the heck out of the F&I guy - and they won't mess with you. I agree with the above, they took advantage of you.
Never heard of that. But I'm not a big "apps" guy.

Thanks for the tip.

My pleasure. Remember an application is like a contract. So change whatever terms you don't agree to....the car dealership will be totally surprised. Take control over your own information. If they won't work with you, walk out. This applies to any form - IMO.

Re: Unnecessary Inquiries by Kia Dealer (Already Approved)

Anonymous — Tue, 05 May 2015 11:31:34 GMT

@Creditaddict wrote:
YOU DO NOT FILL OUT A CREDIT APP IF YOU ARE NOT FINANCING OR YOU HAVE FINANCING ALREADY>>> DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT!

They will tell you they have to have it for verification = LIE

They will tell you government requires it = LIE

I really don't get why and what they get out of it by running credit they don't need.

Even my recent Nissan lease... While they only pulled 1 report at dealer from all 3 and Nissan pulled 1 report from EX itself... WHY did the dealership pull all 3? Nissan ONLY uses EX and they know that!? but I can live with 3.

When I'm applying for financing and it's ONLY for the BRAND I'm shopping for, I write on the application this is permission to send to NISSAN ONLY... basically I AM NOT RATE SHOPPING so don't you dare bounce this to other banks!

I bought a used CR-V at a Toyota dealership in Huntington Beach last week. Dealer pulled all 3. I told him before he pulled them what my scores were because I knew from here. Scores came back within a point or two of what I said. Experian was 21 points lower than Eq and 66 points lower than TU just like I told him because of 4 medical collections on Ex only. TU 680, Ex 614 In the end they only submitted me to Wells Fargo Dealer Services who only pulled Experian. You'd think if they pulled all three and there's a 66 point separation they'd try to find a lender that would look at one of the better scores.

On on top of that the triple pull the dealer did says "auto loan" and the Ex one WFDS did says "unspecified". I knew I wouldn't get great financing with my scores but I figured wherever I went would try to get me through with my best score. Then again I'm a complete noob to financing a car and should have done more research first.