topic Re: car trade fiasco -- should I stop payment on deposit in Auto Loans

car trade fiasco -- should I stop payment on deposit

designated_knitter — Mon, 11 May 2015 20:04:44 GMT

So I traded in my 2013 Nissan Rogue on May 1st for a 2014 Nissan Maxima. It was through the Nissan dealership. The dealership obtained the pay off amount and they were going to be paying off my old finance company (GM Financial).

New car is being financed through Ally.

GM is callling me bugging me for my car payment. I told them I traded the vehicle to the Nissan Dealership. Nissan Dealership has already SOLD my old car (despite not having paid off GM Financial and having clear title.

Spoke to the finance department and they said that they hadn't received a check from my new finance company (Ally) and they don't typically pay off the trade until those funds have been received.

I have no control over a) when Ally pays the dealership; b) when the dealership pays GM Financial... GM doesn't seem to care that I don't HAVE the vehicle any longer -- they just want their money. The dealership doesn't seem to care that I'll wrack up a 30 day past due payment with GMFinancial (impacting my credit).

Sooooo, the only thing I have control over:

I did give a post-dated check for 1500.00 which is supposed to be depositied on the 15th (this friday).

Do I have any legal grounds to stop payment on that check? Use the money to make sure GM financial gets paid so that I don't get a 30-day past due on that loan?

I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place. I don't trust the dealer at this point as far as I can throw them since they were trying all bunch of games to get me to pay more than we had agreed to.... not sure what to do here that won't ruin my credit or get me arrested for passing a bad check...

Suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

Re: car trade fiasco -- should I stop payment on deposit

CH-7-Mission-Accomplished — Mon, 11 May 2015 20:11:38 GMT

I would go ahead and make the next car payment just to preserve your credit. You may be legaly correct but you will suffer the damage from the late payment.

It's not right but the dust will settle out within a month and you will get a check back from your current loan company.

Re: car trade fiasco -- should I stop payment on deposit

disdreamin — Mon, 11 May 2015 20:22:44 GMT

I agree, I'd make the payment to your current lender. But I would also contact them and ask if they processed paperwork authorizing removal of their lien from the title. If they have not, I would go back to the dealership and ask them how they were able to transfer the title to a new owner.

FWIW, I read that there was a car dealer who was brought up on charges for scenario much like this. He was taking cars on trade, never paying off the loan, selling the owner a new vehicle and keeping all the cash.

Re: car trade fiasco -- should I stop payment on deposit

Anonymous — Mon, 11 May 2015 20:20:33 GMT

Seems all this dealer cared about was closing the deal and making money. I'd make payment so that you don't get reported as missing a payment on your reports. I'd then call the dealership you got your car from and give them hell.

Put a stop payment on the $1,500. Because if they deposit it and it bounces, it will force them to resolve the issue as they will want their money. Once they fix it, write them a new check and subtract the payment you are going to pay to GM since it is their error.

Why should you be penalized for their mistake? So simply put,

-Pay GM

-Put a stop payment on the $1,500

-Write them a new check - what you paid to GM.

Re: car trade fiasco -- should I stop payment on deposit

designated_knitter — Mon, 11 May 2015 20:22:14 GMT

When I talked to the finance manager -- they said they coudl "sell the car" -- the new owner just couldn't register it in their name until they got the title.

I would understand this sort of thing if it was a little "buy here pay here" lot - -but we are talking about a regular full service Nissan dealership!

Problem is, I gave a deposit that is more than 2 months of my old car payment. I can't afford to pay my old car payment PLUS the deposit as well... That is why I was thinking of stopping payment on the deposit check. But I bet that would get me in all sorts of other problems....

Re: car trade fiasco -- should I stop payment on deposit

Anonymous — Mon, 11 May 2015 20:41:14 GMT

@designated_knitter wrote:
When I talked to the finance manager -- they said they coudl "sell the car" -- the new owner just couldn't register it in their name until they got the title.

I would understand this sort of thing if it was a little "buy here pay here" lot - -but we are talking about a regular full service Nissan dealership!

Problem is, I gave a deposit that is more than 2 months of my old car payment. I can't afford to pay my old car payment PLUS the deposit as well... That is why I was thinking of stopping payment on the deposit check. But I bet that would get me in all sorts of other problems....

Put a stop payment on it. It seems this dealer lied to you and have not held their end of the bargain. A true and reliable dealership will not be playing games like this.

What are you worried? They are putting the screws in you. What are they going to do? Take you to court? They are probably worried about their shady practices coming to light.

If I were you, I put a stop payment on the check. The choice is yours. Either have GM report you as missing payment on your credit reports OR take your chance with this sucker of a dealership...

Re: car trade fiasco -- should I stop payment on deposit

Ragelog — Mon, 11 May 2015 21:20:01 GMT

I would pay GM no later then 29 days late so it doesn't report on your credit report. You will get a refund for whatever overpayment happens. I am not sure if a dealer is required to pay off a trade within 10 days some do but some take a little longer. In the end they have a sold a car that they will likely need to provide paperwork to the new buyer within 30 days of it's sale so. I would figure out a way to pay both.

Re: car trade fiasco -- should I stop payment on deposit

CH-7-Mission-Accomplished — Mon, 11 May 2015 21:56:32 GMT

Why don't you just go to the dealership and insist on meeting with the finance manager. Tell him/her that you want this resolved now. He/she can get on the phone and be the squeaky wheel to get the $$$ moving.

You can also tell him you are going to stop payment on your check, and if he says so what, do it while you are sitting in his office.

But you can bet they have 100 outs written into those contracts you signed, and every legal advantage will be in their court.

At the end of the day it is your credit that is at stake, so I would find a way to pay that car payment, even if I had to take a cash advance on my credit card.

Re: car trade fiasco -- should I stop payment on deposit

StartingOver10 — Mon, 11 May 2015 22:47:32 GMT

@CH-7-Mission-Accomplished wrote:
Why don't you just go to the dealership and insist on meeting with the finance manager. Tell him/her that you want this resolved now. He/she can get on the phone and be the squeaky wheel to get the $$$ moving.

You can also tell him you are going to stop payment on your check, and if he says so what, do it while you are sitting in his office.

But you can bet they have 100 outs written into those contracts you signed, and every legal advantage will be in their court.

At the end of the day it is your credit that is at stake, so I would find a way to pay that car payment, even if I had to take a cash advance on my credit card.

^^^This. The damage from a 30 day late on an auto loan is a long punishment. Do what you have to do. Your finance contract with GM is still in effect until it is paid in full. You don't want to risk your credit for the slowness of this dealer.

As pointed out above, any over payment has to be refunded to you when Nissan pays the old car loan off.

Re: car trade fiasco -- should I stop payment on deposit

Anonymous — Tue, 12 May 2015 12:45:55 GMT

Make sure to document, document, document. Who you talked to at each place and when and what they said. I would go in to the dealership, as stated, asking to have them exchange your post dated check for one that' is that amount less your car payment. I'd have it ready. I'd also have a written statement about what you're doing, exchanging the check, and be sure to include what you've been told by them, that they have the right to sell a car to someone that's not eligible for registration. I'd ask the finance manager or someone to sign your statement. They probably won't, and then I agree - make the payment even if you have to do a cash advance or something. Or, if going to the dealership doesn't sound like something you'd be comfortable with, still make the payment and see what happens over the next week or two.

Re: car trade fiasco -- should I stop payment on deposit

Anonymous — Tue, 12 May 2015 13:21:34 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Make sure to document, document, document. Who you talked to at each place and when and what they said. I would go in to the dealership, as stated, asking to have them exchange your post dated check for one that' is that amount less your car payment. I'd have it ready. I'd also have a written statement about what you're doing, exchanging the check, and be sure to include what you've been told by them, that they have the right to sell a car to someone that's not eligible for registration. I'd ask the finance manager or someone to sign your statement. They probably won't, and then I agree - make the payment even if you have to do a cash advance or something. Or, if going to the dealership doesn't sound like something you'd be comfortable with, still make the payment and see what happens over the next week or two.

Agreed... This dealership is ridiculous..

Re: car trade fiasco -- should I stop payment on deposit

CH-7-Mission-Accomplished — Tue, 12 May 2015 13:30:16 GMT

@designated_knitter wrote:
So I traded in my 2013 Nissan Rogue on May 1st for a 2014 Nissan Maxima. It was through the Nissan dealership. The dealership obtained the pay off amount and they were going to be paying off my old finance company (GM Financial).

New car is being financed through Ally.

GM is callling me bugging me for my car payment. I told them I traded the vehicle to the Nissan Dealership. Nissan Dealership has already SOLD my old car (despite not having paid off GM Financial and having clear title.

Spoke to the finance department and they said that they hadn't received a check from my new finance company (Ally) and they don't typically pay off the trade until those funds have been received.

I have no control over a) when Ally pays the dealership; b) when the dealership pays GM Financial... GM doesn't seem to care that I don't HAVE the vehicle any longer -- they just want their money. The dealership doesn't seem to care that I'll wrack up a 30 day past due payment with GMFinancial (impacting my credit).

Sooooo, the only thing I have control over:

I did give a post-dated check for 1500.00 which is supposed to be depositied on the 15th (this friday).

Do I have any legal grounds to stop payment on that check? Use the money to make sure GM financial gets paid so that I don't get a 30-day past due on that loan?

I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place. I don't trust the dealer at this point as far as I can throw them since they were trying all bunch of games to get me to pay more than we had agreed to.... not sure what to do here that won't ruin my credit or get me arrested for passing a bad check...

Suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

The broken link here is Ally. You have signed loan documents with them and they are charging you interest since the day you signed. You are also being charged interest by GM. Since it is your loan (and not the dealer's) that hasn't been transmitted to pay off GM, you need to call Ally and get some action and keep asking for supervisors or whatever.

The fact that the dealer has resold the car may or may not be illegal, but the holdup here is that the new lender has not sent the money. If they say your dealer hasn't done something, now you can work over the dealer.

Ally will understand the problem with a 30 day late if you explain your situation. Get on the phone and raise hell with Ally.

Re: car trade fiasco -- should I stop payment on deposit

designated_knitter — Tue, 12 May 2015 16:39:27 GMT

Well, spoke with GM Financial (about their misreporting my loan from earlier this year) and mentioned that the dealer had already sold the Nissan despite the fact that GM Financial has not been paid and they have not released the title on the car. They were not happy. They advised me to contact my state attorney general...

I called my state attorney general and they said that I needed to file a complaint IMMEDIATELY... they were shocked that a major dealership like this would do something like this (i.e. selling a used car when they did not have clear title).

I asked the NC AG about stopping payment on the deposit check and they advised against that. So for the sake of my sanity (what little is left of it), I will be letting the deposit clear and will be making an additional payment to GM Financial to avoid another 30-day late on this loan. Even if Ally would understand, I'm not willing to take the hit on my credit score which is already marginal at best.

I did just get off the phone with the sales consultant. Apparently they did NOT sell the Rogue -- the woman backed out at the last minute (maybe because she found out that she wouldn't be able to register the car because they didn't have clear title). Of course, they are all ticked off because I have filed a complaint... and left bad reviews and slammed them on the survey... but even the sale guy admitted that the sales manager behaved inappropriately and unprofessionally and that my reviews were truthful.

Sooooo, that's where things stand. Going to beg, borrow, and pawn whatever I've got so that I can pay off GM Financial AND the dealership...

Thanks for everyone's input. just pretty sick about all of it and hopefully Ally will still follow through on the financing because if they don't, I'm in a world of hurt...

Cheers.

Nancy

Re: car trade fiasco -- should I stop payment on deposit

Anonymous — Tue, 12 May 2015 17:12:17 GMT

@designated_knitter wrote:
Well, spoke with GM Financial (about their misreporting my loan from earlier this year) and mentioned that the dealer had already sold the Nissan despite the fact that GM Financial has not been paid and they have not released the title on the car. They were not happy. They advised me to contact my state attorney general...

I called my state attorney general and they said that I needed to file a complaint IMMEDIATELY... they were shocked that a major dealership like this would do something like this (i.e. selling a used car when they did not have clear title).

I asked the NC AG about stopping payment on the deposit check and they advised against that. So for the sake of my sanity (what little is left of it), I will be letting the deposit clear and will be making an additional payment to GM Financial to avoid another 30-day late on this loan. Even if Ally would understand, I'm not willing to take the hit on my credit score which is already marginal at best.

I did just get off the phone with the sales consultant. Apparently they did NOT sell the Rogue -- the woman backed out at the last minute (maybe because she found out that she wouldn't be able to register the car because they didn't have clear title). Of course, they are all ticked off because I have filed a complaint... and left bad reviews and slammed them on the survey... but even the sale guy admitted that the sales manager behaved inappropriately and unprofessionally and that my reviews were truthful.

Sooooo, that's where things stand. Going to beg, borrow, and pawn whatever I've got so that I can pay off GM Financial AND the dealership...

Thanks for everyone's input. just pretty sick about all of it and hopefully Ally will still follow through on the financing because if they don't, I'm in a world of hurt...

Cheers.

Nancy

Good decision and glad you got clarification from the AG. This dealership hopefully will be held accountable for their actions.

Re: car trade fiasco -- should I stop payment on deposit

designated_knitter — Tue, 12 May 2015 17:28:26 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

Good decision and glad you got clarification from the AG. This dealership hopefully will be held accountable for their actions.

You know... that's the heck of it... they'll get the compaint and say "the woman's crazy -- there's her Nissan Rogue right over there. We're patiently waiting for the title. We know we can't sell it until we get that!

They're dealers -- they have lying down to an art! Even my sales guy was saying "I never said we sold your vehicle... I just said we were getting READY to... but the woman backed out at the last minute... its still sitting on the lot -- I can text you a picture!"

So the AG will send them the complaint and they'll play dumb and figure out some way to retaliate... (not that I'm paranoid or anything -- but at least I'm the center of attention!)

Re: car trade fiasco -- should I stop payment on deposit

Anonymous — Tue, 12 May 2015 17:46:57 GMT

@designated_knitter wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:

Good decision and glad you got clarification from the AG. This dealership hopefully will be held accountable for their actions.
You know... that's the heck of it... they'll get the compaint and say "the woman's crazy -- there's her Nissan Rogue right over there. We're patiently waiting for the title. We know we can't sell it until we get that!

They're dealers -- they have lying down to an art! Even my sales guy was saying "I never said we sold your vehicle... I just said we were getting READY to... but the woman backed out at the last minute... its still sitting on the lot -- I can text you a picture!"

So the AG will send them the complaint and they'll play dumb and figure out some way to retaliate... (not that I'm paranoid or anything -- but at least I'm the center of attention!)

I know.. But it is not right they treated you like that. The is just scummy. Hopefully, the AG office can get this resolved quickly. I hope you don't plan going there for another business transaction..

Re: car trade fiasco -- should I stop payment on deposit

jim44 — Tue, 12 May 2015 18:06:27 GMT

@Ragelog wrote:
I would pay GM no later then 29 days late so it doesn't report on your credit report. You will get a refund for whatever overpayment happens. I am not sure if a dealer is required to pay off a trade within 10 days some do but some take a little longer. In the end they have a sold a car that they will likely need to provide paperwork to the new buyer within 30 days of it's sale so. I would figure out a way to pay both.

Designated, I understand your frustration,and Ragelog has the best advice of any of these posts. A couple of the questions you asked should only be answered by a lawyer as they may or may not have legal implications.

First off, I've been told it's illegal to write and to accept a post dated check, especially for a dealer to accept this on a financed sale. Your Nissan dealership should have realized that's not good business practice on their part.

2nd is, if you still plan on putting a stop payment on your check, you should consult a lawyer. You signed a legal retail (collateral) contract to purchase a vehicle and your down payment is part of that contract. Any breach of contract would give ALLy the right to repo.

The Nissan dealership was quoted a 10 day payoff from GM Financial. This payoff was included on your Bill of Sale. Essentially you agree to this payoff amount which included interest on those 10 days. If the dealership pays off your trade lien prior to that 10 days, you will be refunded the difference as it is a refund tied to your installment contract (ally is loaning you the payoff amount) GM will refund to you, not the Nissan dealership. When GM Financial quoted the payoff to the dealership, they entered all this into into their computers, they know that Nissan will payoff your loan.

If a trade vehicle has a lien, a dealer has a right to sell the vehicle. You most likely signed a dealer power of attorney allowing them to sign off your vehicle to the dealership for you. The title will be sent from GM to the dealer unless your state has electronic title and liens. Accord to your state's DMV statutes, the dealer has a certain amount of time to pay off your vehicle. It is in their interest to pay it off in that 10 day period or incurr additional interest and any late penalities. If GM calls again, let them know that the vehicle has been traded, that you are no longer in possession, and that Ally has extended credit to you which includes your payoff. As far as you making a payment, I'd talk to GM Financial first, tell them your problem and ask them about your best course of action.

The dealership only has a limited time to complete your title work. If past a certain date, your contract has to be rewritten for which you will have to sign all over again.

I'm not a lawyer and DMV laws pertaining to title work, contracts etc do differ from state to state. Sorry to hear of your problems with your Nissan dealership. It is in their best interest for your car purchase to be a quick and easy one. Car buying in my book should be a happy time!! Best of Luck.

Re: car trade fiasco -- should I stop payment on deposit

ezdriver — Tue, 12 May 2015 18:28:14 GMT

@designated_knitter wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:

Good decision and glad you got clarification from the AG. This dealership hopefully will be held accountable for their actions.
You know... that's the heck of it... they'll get the compaint and say "the woman's crazy -- there's her Nissan Rogue right over there. We're patiently waiting for the title. We know we can't sell it until we get that!

They're dealers -- they have lying down to an art! Even my sales guy was saying "I never said we sold your vehicle... I just said we were getting READY to... but the woman backed out at the last minute... its still sitting on the lot -- I can text you a picture!"

So the AG will send them the complaint and they'll play dumb and figure out some way to retaliate... (not that I'm paranoid or anything -- but at least I'm the center of attention!)

I like your thinking!