topic Re: Navy Federal Credit Union (NFCU) After Including in Bankruptcy - Data Point in Bankruptcy

Navy Federal Credit Union (NFCU) After Including in Bankruptcy - Data Point

Tazman81 — Sun, 02 Apr 2017 05:55:59 GMT

The below is for data point purposes and is my account of events regarding my request to Navy Federal Credit Union (NFCU) to receive a lending product with them, after they suffered a loss during my 9-year-old discharged Chapter 7 Bankruptcy. I have been corresponding with many folks by way of Private Message, but wanted to provide this data point for the entire community. I’ve started with the Conclusion/Results to make this post as clear and concise as I can. Of course, I welcome you to read the detailed accounts for the best understanding of events.

As with everything, YMMV. The below is documentation based on my experience, voice conversations, letters, and secure message exchanges.

Conclusion / Result(s) / Data Points

If you cause NFCU a loss during bankruptcy, you will not be approved for a lending product until you voluntarily pay back the ENTIRE amount.
After your discharge, if you still qualify for NFCU membership (or did not close your share account), you CAN get deposit accounts including checking, savings, CDs, MMSA, and IRAs with NFCU. The accounts can be used without restrictions.
They will not remove the Notice from your mobile app which states “Your account information is being provided for informational purposes only. Providing you this information is not an attempt to collect a debt.”
The system usually will not open deposit accounts automatically online because of the flag. It will go into the queue for an associate to open it, but is usually opened within 2 business days.
Per the bankruptcy department, the flag on the account is to keep the computer system from automatically approving a person for credit based on their credit report when NFCU has suffered a loss. Without the flag, the computer may automatically approve a person for credit. (I had no way to test this as my account has a flag, so the computer automatically denied any credit applications I entered online with the reason code “You Caused Navy Federal a Loss”. No credit application would be pulled during these denials. Basically, a black list)
Per the bankruptcy department, they have no influence over the lending team’s decision to provide credit. The flag does NOT stop the lending team from making a favorable decision about a credit application. (FYI: See #1, as that’s been my experience and the experience of most others as documented in the forums)
The “Lending Committee” (which is the wording that displays on denial letters) is not a committee. This is the Lending Team. The terms are used interchangeably internally at NFCU, thus seeming to give a false impression to consumers that they can appeal to a “Committee” to review a lending decision. In all actuality, it’s just another person from the Lending Team. (Weirdly enough, this information was given to me directly through a secured message)
BBB has an email address on file to contact NFCU. It’s listed as a “priority” email address. I received no response from it. (YMMV)
There is a separate lending team for credit cards than for auto loans.

Detailed Account of Events:

As some of you know, my NFCU story started many years ago, in the below thread. Please do not respond to that thread. I’ve only listed it for historical purposes.

http://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Bankruptcy/Navy-Federal-CU-amp-Bankruptcy/m-p/690713#M6039

Here is a detailed account of events that provided me the above data points to share with the community.

Oct 2008

File Bankruptcy, NFCU Included. Advised I could no longer have deposit accounts, they were closed by NFCU

Jul 2010

Filled out an application to get deposit accounts back with NFCU. It was denied, even though I still qualified for membership. Wrote to executive offices, still denied.

Aug 2016

Went into the branch to deposit money into my brother’s NFCU account. The rep asked me why I didn’t have an account with them so I could just use the Member to Member transfer feature. I told her about the above. She advised that NFCU policies regarding bankruptcy have changed. I set down with a member specialist and opened new deposit accounts. (my access number stayed the same)

Oct 2016

I applied for a cashRewards Credit Card and to refinance my vehicle. It was an instant denial stating “You Caused Navy Federal a Loss”
The loan officer contacted the lending team; they explained I needed to rebuild my credit relationship with NFCU and suggested a secured loan. The first secured loan application was automatically denied for the same reason as above; the loan specialist had to make another phone call, and then my application was approved and a share secured loan established.
I was advised to pay on the secured loan to re-establish credit with NFCU and come back to the branch in March 2017 to have the loan officer do a “manual, level 2” application for the cashRewards Credit Card and auto loan refinancing.

Mar 2017

I came into the branch on 3/10, did the application and received a denial. I was advised to wait for the denial paperwork and bring it back into the bank because they could not “see” the reason for denial. I received the denial letter, and it had the same code as before, “You Caused Navy Federal a Loss”.
The loan officer stated I need to provide a letter of explanation to the Lending Committee (as listed on the denial letter), and to bring the letter into the branch as they would fax it to the Lending Committee for me so I wouldn’t have to wait for it to go through postal mail.
I brought the letter back into the branch on 3/18. The letter was faxed and was advised it would take the Lending Committee 2 – 4 weeks to review.
On 3/23 I received a message to my NFCU secure inbox titled “Appeal”. It indicated in order to process my appeal, I needed to submit a new application. It directed me to go into the branch or call the toll-free number to expedite the process.
I called the toll-free number, spoke with a young lady that told me since all the fields on the application were technically not changing, she couldn’t do another application. I asked how the Lending Committee was supposed to review my application from 3/10 if this is the case. She advised I needed to speak with the bankruptcy department. I was transferred.
I spoke with a nice young lady in the bankruptcy department. She advised that the Lending Committee is free to make any decision they want, and the code on my account is not preventing them from making a decision. She explained the code only prevents me from being automatically approved by the computer, which would happen because I’ve re-established my credit very well. She advised I need to speak with the Lending Committee, but there is no phone number to contact that committee, so she suggested I just reply to the message in my secure inbox that was originally sent to me.
I replied to the secure message, and explained my correspondences from the two items above. I received a response that since no fields would be changing on the application, the Lending “TEAM” would not come to a different conclusion than the original decision.
I sent an email to the BBB priority email address for NFCU (I never received a response)
I sent a response back through my secure portal to the Appeal message. I provided clarity that I was not denied because of anything incorrect on my application. I explained my letter of appeal show cases the sequence of events, and that information could not be documented on the application as there is not a spot to do so. I also asked who the Lending “team” was as my understanding is my letter of appeal would be reviewed by a Lending “committee”.
Received a response. Since I caused NFCU a loss, no lending products would ever be approved, and I should not have even been able to get the share secured loan. I could voluntarily pay NFCU back for the loss to be considered for lending products in the future. The response also indicated the lending committee and the lending team are the same group.

Apr 2017

I closed most of my deposit accounts with NFCU and transferred the funds out. I did leave open my checking and savings account with minimal funds since there is no fee.

Re: Navy Federal Credit Union (NFCU) After Including in Bankruptcy - Data Point

Anonymous — Sun, 02 Apr 2017 05:49:41 GMT

Would you consider paying them back? It sounds like you really want to do business with them.

Edit: I just read the older posts about this. I see their amounts now.

Re: Navy Federal Credit Union (NFCU) After Including in Bankruptcy - Data Point

Tazman81 — Sun, 02 Apr 2017 05:58:37 GMT

Unfortunately paying them back directly is not quite in my budget. I did try to make the argument of bring all of my deposit accounts, having all of my lending, and running a pretty high yearly amount through their credit card as a way for them to "recoup" some of the losses with me using them for all of my lending products, but that also was a no go.

Re: Navy Federal Credit Union (NFCU) After Including in Bankruptcy - Data Point

GatorsFan84 — Sun, 02 Apr 2017 15:04:49 GMT

Thanks for the info. Isn't this similar to how most credit unions act if you burn them in BK?

I joined NFCU after my BK discharge and this is my first CU I've joined but from what I've read in the past, it seems like CU are even harder then the big boys to get back into good graces with after you burn them in BK.

Re: Navy Federal Credit Union (NFCU) After Including in Bankruptcy - Data Point

jason0618 — Sun, 02 Apr 2017 15:42:45 GMT

I've thought of paying them back after my bk. Just on principle. I included them only because my lawyer said I couldn't pay the card off and not include them in my bankruptcy. I just figure I could find more to do with $5,000 and a "hope". Sorry it didn't work out for you

Re: Navy Federal Credit Union (NFCU) After Including in Bankruptcy - Data Point

Anonymous — Sun, 02 Apr 2017 16:12:18 GMT

Appreciate this info! I was an authorized (secondary?) user on my now ex-wife’s credit card with NFCU. She ran up the card and others and left me and the kids behind and promptly filed Chapt 7. I had little choice but to file eventually too so burned NFCU for approx. $14K credit card balance. I still have a small savings with them and hoped to get back in with a credit card down the road but sounds like I would need to cough up the $14K first, and don’t foresee myself stumbling upon those funds. Also doubt since I was a secondary they would excuse that.

Re: Navy Federal Credit Union (NFCU) After Including in Bankruptcy - Data Point

CreditExpressNJ — Sun, 02 Apr 2017 16:59:53 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Appreciate this info! I was an authorized (secondary?) user on my now ex-wife’s credit card with NFCU. She ran up the card and others and left me and the kids behind and promptly filed Chapt 7. I had little choice but to file eventually too so burned NFCU for approx. $14K credit card balance. I still have a small savings with them and hoped to get back in with a credit card down the road but sounds like I would need to cough up the $14K first, and don’t foresee myself stumbling upon those funds. Also doubt since I was a secondary they would excuse that.

Unless I am understanding wrong it sounds like you are saying that you were an authorized user on her cards.... If that in fact is true just dispute it off your credit report and they cannot hold it against it but in the likelyhood you are saying authorized you mean co-signer then yes you are responsible if she doenst follow throuhg and you did in fact burn them by filing CH7.

Re: Navy Federal Credit Union (NFCU) After Including in Bankruptcy - Data Point

Tazman81 — Sun, 02 Apr 2017 17:30:22 GMT

@GatorsFan84 wrote:
Thanks for the info. Isn't this similar to how most credit unions act if you burn them in BK?

I joined NFCU after my BK discharge and this is my first CU I've joined but from what I've read in the past, it seems like CU are even harder then the big boys to get back into good graces with after you burn them in BK.

You are correct. I do think this is how most credit unions are. I posted because it seemed that some of the lending folks interpreted polices within NFCU as having "changed". Basically it sounds like they did change their policies to where you could have deposit accounts with them again, but their policies on lending products have nnot changed. Which during the first couple months of reopening my account, they indicated the lending policies had changed and I just needed to "re-establish" my credit with NFCU, thus the reason for the secured loan. You probably noticed by my credit profile, I have no need for a secured loan. I only opened it because of the direction of the lending person to get back in the good graces with NFCU (even though I had burned them in bankruptcy). As we are able to see now by the outcome, that was incorrect information, and getting back into the good graces is only accomplished by paying them back. Which we knew that, but I thought something had actually changed. So, not faulting NFCU for their policy, just thought there was a change.

Re: Navy Federal Credit Union (NFCU) After Including in Bankruptcy - Data Point

Tazman81 — Sun, 02 Apr 2017 17:34:23 GMT

@jason0618 wrote:
I've thought of paying them back after my bk. Just on principle. I included them only because my lawyer said I couldn't pay the card off and not include them in my bankruptcy. I just figure I could find more to do with $5,000 and a "hope". Sorry it didn't work out for you

Yes, there are some things that I found out after bankrutpcy that I wish I would have known prior to. It certainly would have changed my actions. But it is what is now. I agree with you, there are other things that you could do with the $5k. Now, certainly if I got hit by the lottery bus, then I would consider paying everyone back, but at this time, If I were to do a payback to NFCU, then it would put me back where I was before, and I never want to go back to that financial place again. I did leave my checking and savings account open with them this time. So, if something drastically changes, then at least I still have my membership. Hey, having 25years with NFCU is not too terribly far off, maybe that might trigger something.

Re: Navy Federal Credit Union (NFCU) After Including in Bankruptcy - Data Point

Anonymous — Sun, 02 Apr 2017 17:42:16 GMT

OP, I read your previous thread linked above. Did you get back in with AMEX?

Re: Navy Federal Credit Union (NFCU) After Including in Bankruptcy - Data Point

Tazman81 — Sun, 02 Apr 2017 17:50:37 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
OP, I read your previous thread linked above. Did you get back in with AMEX?

Yes, got back in with AMEX, but it was about 5yrs or so after discharge. There are some threads floating around about people being able to get back in with them. It also probably helped my case that I have a Corporate AMEX that I use heavily and I was an AU on another AMEX account. But I do have the Platinum card, which I am the primary for.

Re: Navy Federal Credit Union (NFCU) After Including in Bankruptcy - Data Point

Tazman81 — Sun, 23 Apr 2017 12:43:34 GMT

I just wanted to provide a quick update to #8 above. Originally I stated that I had not received a response from NFCU via the "priority" email address to them listed on the BBB website.

I just received a written response through postal mail. The response thanked me for bringing my concerns to their attention. It confirmed that the interpretation of the "change in policies" by the original loan officer was incorrect. It advises the lending policy is still the same. Since I caused NFCU a loss during bankruptcy, I would need to repay the loss prior to them being able to extend credit.

So, same conclusion as above, but just wanted the community to know that I did receive a response.

Re: Navy Federal Credit Union (NFCU) After Including in Bankruptcy - Data Point

GatorsFan84 — Sun, 23 Apr 2017 15:03:51 GMT

Thanks for update!

Re: Navy Federal Credit Union (NFCU) After Including in Bankruptcy - Data Point

Anonymous — Wed, 30 Aug 2017 23:42:54 GMT

Sorry to bump up an old thread but does anyone know what NFCU thinks about the following situation?

I have an NFCU visa
My wife has an NFCU visa
We have a joint checking with NFCU

I'm considering filing ch7 bankruptcy just myself not my wife. Would they take adverse action on her card and our checking?

Re: Navy Federal Credit Union (NFCU) After Including in Bankruptcy - Data Point

Anonymous — Thu, 31 Aug 2017 01:15:30 GMT

While I'm not sure if they can or would, I would absolutely move my cash accounts somewhere else if I owed them $$.

Re: Navy Federal Credit Union (NFCU) After Including in Bankruptcy - Data Point

Anonymous — Thu, 31 Aug 2017 01:34:10 GMT

Google the term cross-collateralization and that will tell you all you need to know to draw your own conclusions. As soon as I made the decision to file bk I moved my direct deposits and my balances elsewhere. (before filing, that is.)

OP - thank you for the info, even though I am not/will not be a NFCU member. I would very much like to have PSECU check/savings back but don't ever want to touch another credit product with them again. I may yet approach them. I am going to sit on that one though. Previous posters are correct, CUs are much more protective of their institutions when they are burned in BK. My membership, by all sights and appearances, is still open, I just don't have online access to it. They "refunded" me money (that I can't access) in the middle of a bk!

Re: Navy Federal Credit Union (NFCU) After Including in Bankruptcy - Data Point

Tazman81 — Thu, 31 Aug 2017 02:17:16 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Sorry to bump up an old thread but does anyone know what NFCU thinks about the following situation?

I have an NFCU visa
My wife has an NFCU visa
We have a joint checking with NFCU

I'm considering filing ch7 bankruptcy just myself not my wife. Would they take adverse action on her card and our checking?

Any deposit account that your name is on will be used as cross collateral for your credit card. So your best bet is to remove your name from the joint account. Like another posted indicated, I would recommend moving your direct deposit over to another bank or credit union until AFTER the discharge. If they are being oncluded, you will no longer be able to get credit with NFCU again without paying them back everything that they loss in the bankruptcy.

Once the discharge is done, then you can start using your deposit accounts again without restriction. However you will not be able to get any other credit products, and I do not think you will be allowed to be an AU on your wife's credit card with NFCU. Do you all have any automobiles financed together with NFCU? If yes, you want to speak with our attorney about that b/c that property could be tied up in the cross collateral agreement you sign.

Re: Navy Federal Credit Union (NFCU) After Including in Bankruptcy - Data Point

Anonymous — Thu, 31 Aug 2017 03:30:18 GMT

Hmmm.

Well we've transferred everything out. No auto loans with NFCU. Honestly i didn't want to include them but even if i didn't wouldn't they close my account once they see i filed anyway?

Re: Navy Federal Credit Union (NFCU) After Including in Bankruptcy - Data Point

Tazman81 — Thu, 31 Aug 2017 03:40:13 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Hmmm.

Well we've transferred everything out. No auto loans with NFCU. Honestly i didn't want to include them but even if i didn't wouldn't they close my account once they see i filed anyway?

As long as NFCU is not included in your bankruptcy, then they will not mess with yoru accounts. But unfortunately it's not that easy. The only way you can not include a creditor in your bankruptcy is if you don't owe them any money. I don't think you will be permitted to leave them out of your bankruptcy as it would be like you picking and chosing which creditors you want to pay.

Now I will say, something that I learned too late was that if an account has a 0 balance, then they don't have to be included. Had I known that before I did my bankruptcy, I would have actually paid off my AMEX card (had some very miniscual amount). Years later, I did get back in with AMEX because the amount was very small, but had I known that, then I would have just brought that account to a 0 balance so it would have been one less account to include in bankruptcy.

Re: Navy Federal Credit Union (NFCU) After Including in Bankruptcy - Data Point

Anonymous — Fri, 01 Sep 2017 07:53:13 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
No auto loans with NFCU. Honestly i didn't want to include them but even if i didn't wouldn't they close my account once they see i filed anyway?

Once you file for bankruptcy, there is a 99.5% chance your credit cards will be immediately closed, whether or not they are included in bankruptcy. As stated previously, you may be able to "not include" them if they are at $0 balance(s).

That's credit cards.

For checking/savings/CD accounts, these accounts will remain open. You may open other checking/savings accounts post-discharge. This is the policy that has changed -- it used to be more restrictve.

As discussed previously, if NFCU takes a loss, you will not be able to obtain credit from them until the loss is re-paid. That credit includes secured loans and secured credit cards. This policy has not changed in the past 10 years.