topic Re: Amex Reconsideration in Business Credit

Amex Reconsideration

Uncle_Money — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 13:11:17 GMT

[Note to Moderators: I'm listing under this category because I had to personally guarantee this credit card]

Hey guys,

Maybe you can help shed some light on this. So last night I apped for the Amex Simply Cash Plus business card. I did this online and it wasn't instantly approved. I was surprised because my credit history is stellar. Got an email almost immediately thereafter to only find out I was denied. WHAT?! Denied with a near 800 credit score and 8 year history with Amex? I thought I was a guaranteed approval!

Not so fast I then found out. I read the electronic letter and the reason was due to a returned payment in the last 30 days. Long story short, that wasn't my fault, I immediately made another payment once I found out my original payment was returned and Amex assured me of no adverse action. Not my fault.

Here's a copy of the letter:

So I just called the new app department and asked for a recon. The rep told me it can take up to 10 days. I explained my reasons and she noted them with the recon. Has anyone had any recent luck with Amex recons and do you guys think the odds of a successful recon are high considering this was the only factor? I thought I would be able to talk directly to an underwriter but no such luck. Should I call back and speak to a supervisor?

If anyone has a backdoor # I can try, please let me know that too. Thanks guys.

Uncle Money

Re: Amex Reconsideration

kdm31091 — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 13:23:09 GMT

@Uncle_Money wrote:
[Note to Moderators: I'm listing under this category because I had to personally guarantee this credit card]

Hey guys,

Maybe you can help shed some light on this. So last night I apped for the Amex Simply Cash Plus business card. I did this online and it wasn't instantly approved. I was surprised because my credit history is stellar. Got an email almost immediately thereafter to only find out I was denied. WHAT?! Denied with a near 800 credit score and 8 year history with Amex? I thought I was a guaranteed approval!

Not so fast I then found out. I read the electronic letter and the reason was due to a returned payment in the last 30 days. Long story short, that wasn't my fault, I immediately made another payment once I found out my original payment was returned and Amex assured me of no adverse action. Not my fault.

Here's a copy of the letter:

So I just called the new app department and asked for a recon. The rep told me it can take up to 10 days. I explained my reasons and she noted them with the recon. Has anyone had any recent luck with Amex recons and do you guys think the odds of a successful recon are high considering this was the only factor? I thought I would be able to talk directly to an underwriter but no such luck. Should I call back and speak to a supervisor?

If anyone has a backdoor # I can try, please let me know that too. Thanks guys.

Uncle Money

I wouldn't call back. They told you it will take up to 10 days, so leave it alone until you hear anything. If you call too many times, it will be noted, and you'll just end up appearing desparate which creditors don't like to see.

That said, Amex is really not big on recons or overturning decisions unless there is a true inaccuracy on your credit file. You said you had a returned payment. I don't see how a returned payment is not your fault -- either you typed an account in wrong, or you had NSF, etc. It's not the end of the world, but not sure how it could be attributed to anyone else.

So in short, I don't see huge chances here. Returned payments usually put you on a "bad list" with creditors for awhile, and the only cure is time and consistent payments.

Re: Amex Reconsideration

Uncle_Money — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 13:28:04 GMT

Not my fault as in all the information I provided to the rep, including routing and acct # to make the payment was correct.

8 years and 1 return payment, which I immediately corrected so I doubt I'm on any "bad list."

We shall see what happens. I will report the results back.

Re: Amex Reconsideration

Anonymous — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 13:29:53 GMT

That is definitely unfortunate. I hope it works out for you. Keep us posted on the outcomr.

Re: Amex Reconsideration

Uncle_Money — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 13:32:11 GMT

Thank you!

Re: Amex Reconsideration

kdm31091 — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 13:32:34 GMT

@Uncle_Money wrote:
Not my fault as in all the information I provided to the rep, including routing and acct # to make the payment was correct.

8 years and 1 return payment, which I immediately corrected so I doubt I'm on any "bad list."

We shall see what happens. I will report the results back.

UM

Unfortunately, it really doesn't matter, because once a returned payment occurs, you are flagged in the system as having a returned payment. The computer doesn't really care who was at fault or how quickly it was fixed. There is, by and large, not a human sitting there writing this list on a notepad -- it's all a system. Returned payment = bad in the eyes of the creditor.

You are free to believe or not believe, and I'm not saying it will cause you issues forever, but in the short term, you are unlikely to have much luck with the creditor becuase of it.

Re: Amex Reconsideration

Uncle_Money — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 13:39:58 GMT

Yes, I agree. A returned payment can't be a good thing. I'm not ignoring that factor. However, this is why I submitted a recon explaining my side of the story. Unless you ask, you don't receive. I asked, so let's see if I receive!

Re: Amex Reconsideration

creativeZero7 — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 14:07:10 GMT

I don't have much experience with AMEX, but the more I hear, the less they impress me. I am an AU on an AMEX BCE and was considering a business card or personal from them, but I just don't enjoy seeing how they treat their customers. Eight years, multiple cards with them...you would think they would appreciate the business and overide their system for you on the first call. I hope it works out well and sorry that happened. Keep us posted!

Re: Amex Reconsideration

Uncle_Money — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 14:11:02 GMT

Agreed! Well said creative!

Yes, I will post the outcome and thanks.

Re: Amex Reconsideration

takeshi74 — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 14:24:20 GMT

@Uncle_Money wrote:
Denied with a near 800 credit score and 8 year history with Amex?

It's never just about score. It's also not just about your history with a given creditor. You entire credit profile matters with any creditor.

In this case, your recent late also played a significant role.

Which score is that? What model? What CRA? Is that model & CRA the same as the one used by AmEx? Keep in mind that you don't have just one score. There are many scoring models used by creditors and for most models you have a score with each of the 3 major CRA's. Don't just rely on one score for all creditors out there. If you want to know where you stand score-wise with for a product then you need to know the model & CRA used in the decision and then go pull that specific score. You cannot use a score generated by one model to determine a score generated by a different model. Different models evaluate report data differently and can have different scoring ranges.

@Uncle_Money wrote:
Not my fault as in all the information I provided to the rep, including routing and acct # to make the payment was correct.

8 years and 1 return payment, which I immediately corrected so I doubt I'm on any "bad list."

It doesn't hurt to try. We're just telling you the general trend with AmEx. They generally don't recon unless there's an error on a report. I'm not sure how your specific situation would slot in any, in any case, you'd have to contact AmEx anyway to determine the answer to your question regardless of what we say. We're not AmEx.

"X years" really doesn't matter. Issues with payments are of signficant concern to creditors. I agree with you that a mistake on their part shouldn't be held against you but whether or not they will budge on policy is an entirely separate matter. Even if they don't, 30 days is a short timeframe.

@Uncle_Money wrote:
If anyone has a backdoor # I can try, please let me know that too.

There's a sticky with backdoor numbers. Don't overlook the stickies in each subforum as well as prior threads as resources.

Re: Amex Reconsideration

Anonymous — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 14:19:02 GMT

This will eventually be moved to business credit and it's unfortunate about the returned payment but every creditor is going to look unfavorably upon that and probably flag your account.

Re: Amex Reconsideration

darwin_wins — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 14:32:41 GMT

As a last resort if nothing works, try EO and see if they can help you.

Re: Amex Reconsideration

Chickenpotpie — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 14:36:12 GMT

OP, because the return was so recent, maybe the application for credit was too soon? I don't claim to know how Amex operates, I'm just going off how stringent banks can be these days.

I believe they may not give you the credit because of this.

Re: Amex Reconsideration

sandman2435 — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 16:07:38 GMT

@kdm31091 wrote:
@Uncle_Money wrote:
Not my fault as in all the information I provided to the rep, including routing and acct # to make the payment was correct.

8 years and 1 return payment, which I immediately corrected so I doubt I'm on any "bad list."

We shall see what happens. I will report the results back.

UM
Unfortunately, it really doesn't matter, because once a returned payment occurs, you are flagged in the system as having a returned payment. The computer doesn't really care who was at fault or how quickly it was fixed. There is, by and large, not a human sitting there writing this list on a notepad -- it's all a system. Returned payment = bad in the eyes of the creditor.

You are free to believe or not believe, and I'm not saying it will cause you issues forever, but in the short term, you are unlikely to have much luck with the creditor becuase of it.

I once did the same thing that you did,And I'm a 30 year card member,I paid on an account that I closed as I selected the wrong account to pay from,From what Amex told me it stays in their system for 12 months that you had a returned payment even if it's an honest mistake it still stays on their records for 12 months,I've since made sure that all my bank account info is up to date,I had the returned payment 15 years ago ,They did not AA me,But I could not get a CLI or another new account for the 12 months

Re: Amex Reconsideration

Creditaddict — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 16:47:02 GMT

I would wait out the recon... but the account that you had the returned payment on, you can call in and if you get a rep that knows what they are doing they can actually remove the flag from the account that shows you had a returned payment because no payment was actually late if you fixed the issue and paid again before then.

Amex holds those flags on accounts for 12 months and usually a review will fix it but you can ask for the flag to be removed if it didn't cause any lates or anything... this would also block you from getting CLI's currently.

it's kind of annoyance but something amex has always done.

Re: Amex Reconsideration

Creditplz — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 18:10:29 GMT

When I asked them to recon I got a HP I've heard about others getting HP for recon too with Amex... Just check the status online and when it updates to approved or declined call them back??

Re: Amex Reconsideration

NichelleN — Sat, 06 Aug 2016 04:54:52 GMT

@Creditplz wrote:
When I asked them to recon I got a HP I've heard about others getting HP for recon too with Amex... Just check the status online and when it updates to approved or declined call them back??

That happened to me as well.

- Initial application: Denied, HP

- Negative item deleted from credit report 2 days later, faxed in updated info (also put the SAME letter in the mail), requested recon: Denied, HP

- Mailed letter arrived at fedex, received unexpected email: Approved, HP

The same recon request with the same information resulted in 2 additional HP's, a denial and then an approval

Ah well, it got me in the door with Amex and 7 months later, I opened a second card with them.

Good luck on your recon. I haven't had experience with a returned payment so I can't help there. But I hope it works out.

Re: Amex Reconsideration

Uncle_Money — Thu, 11 Aug 2016 03:35:16 GMT

**UPDATE**

So they say no news is good news right?

As of today, which is approximately 7 days later, I checked the status online and it still says "In Progress." The new accounts department says a decision hasn't yet been made.

NOTE: You can no longer speak with an Amex credit analyst. I searched high and low and tried every phone number I could find and each one leads back to new accounts. Every rep I've spoken to says not even they can "call" the analysts. They have to email them. The new accounts phone number really isn't a "back door" number to speak to an analyst, at least not anymore. The reps there have zero power to overturn an application. All they can do is submit the reconsideration for you.

I'm determined to get approval and I will post the proof once I get this overturned. I didn't get to where I am today by accepting the word "no." I'm persistent. And I'll get this done, you wait and see naysayers on this thread!

Meanwhile, I was going to FedEx a recon letter along with a copy of my credit report and letter from my credit union, which states the reason why the payment was dishonored. It wasn't because I didn't have the funds to make the payment it was because I used a line of credit and apparently, PenFed (my credit union) doesn't allow electronic debits from a personal line of credit. I had no idea. The address on the denial letter is a PO Box and you can't FedEx overnight to a PO Box so the rep suggested I fax in any documents I have. So I did.

Now we continue to wait 7 days later. Anyone feel free to weigh in with any thoughts!

Uncle Money

Re: Amex Reconsideration

Uncle_Money — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 20:20:52 GMT

BREAKING NEWS:

And there it is! Finally, after making all the calls, sending emails and faxes stating my case, I got the approval notification today!

The key is NEVER give up. Persistence is key and pays off. I absolutely refused to accept a decline on this application. I've been with Amex for 8 years now and this is my 5th credit card account. I have no idea whether it was the calls, emails or faxes that got this approval but something obviously worked!

Again, NEVER give up on what you want.

Re: Amex Reconsideration

Creditplz — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 20:51:32 GMT

Congrats my friend! Glad it all worked out !