topic Beware of Amex Working Capital Terms program in Business Credit

Beware of Amex Working Capital Terms program

SouthJamaica — Thu, 30 Jan 2020 04:15:52 GMT

When they first introduced this program, it was a very pleasant addition. One could make a payment to a vendor, for a small upfront fee which was more or less the equivalent of an APR of 6%, which seemed like a fair rate for a business operation. E.g., if you wanted 90 days to repay, the fee was 1.5%, but if you only wanted 30 days to repay, the fee was .5%. They have slowly and sneakily inched upwards on the fee. Today I almost fell out of my seat to see that the fees would be the equivalent of an 18% APR: if you want 30 days to repay, the fee is 1.5%; if you want 60 days it's 3%; if you want 90 days it's 4.5%!!! It's actually equivalent to more than 18%, because you're paying it in advance.

My days of using this program are o.v.e.r.

1/19/20 Funny postscript. After I posted this, in late November, I stopped using Amex Working Capital. During the intervening 2 months, the rates have varied between 18% APR and 21% APR. About a week ago, I had paid off the last advance, so my WC balance was zero. Today they dropped the fee down to 9% APR -- where it had started when I first bit. I guess they like me now that I've demonstrated that I can live without them

Banks are the strangest people.

Re: Beware of Amex Working Capital Terms program

FinStar — Thu, 28 Nov 2019 00:20:37 GMT

Thanks for sharing. I suppose they're simply adjusting those fees/rates to the current environment.

Re: Beware of Amex Working Capital Terms program

SouthJamaica — Wed, 04 Dec 2019 14:34:52 GMT

Update.

Now they've raised my rate to 21%.

They've got to be kidding if they think I'm ever going to bite at that.

Re: Beware of Amex Working Capital Terms program

spiritcraft1 — Wed, 04 Dec 2019 17:17:30 GMT

@SouthJamaica wrote:
Update.

Now they've raised my rate to 21%.

They've got to be kidding if they think I'm ever going to bite at that.

Do you earn MR points on these?

I take it just for using it and paying it right off is now 1.75%? Or is there a different fee aside from the interest?

Re: Beware of Amex Working Capital Terms program

Anonymous — Wed, 04 Dec 2019 21:02:35 GMT

Must be profile specific.

I'm seeing 0.75% for 30 days, 1.5% for 60 days and 2.25% for 90 days in my program.

Haven't used it yet but 9% APR for an emergency backup isn't terrible.

Re: Beware of Amex Working Capital Terms program

SouthJamaica — Fri, 06 Dec 2019 14:32:22 GMT

@spiritcraft1 wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:
Update.

Now they've raised my rate to 21%.

They've got to be kidding if they think I'm ever going to bite at that.
Do you earn MR points on these?

I take it just for using it and paying it right off is now 1.75%? Or is there a different fee aside from the interest?

No you don't get any points.

There's just the fee, no interest.

Re: Beware of Amex Working Capital Terms program

SouthJamaica — Fri, 06 Dec 2019 14:37:49 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Must be profile specific.

I'm seeing 0.75% for 30 days, 1.5% for 60 days and 2.25% for 90 days in my program.

Haven't used it yet but 9% APR for an emergency backup isn't terrible.

Yes I guess it is profile specific.

The important takeaway, I would say, is that if you come back to it for an 'emergency backup', don't count on the fee being the same as it was the last time you looked. They change it around, and they don't notify you that they are doing it. So the same circumstances that caused you to need an emergency backup might well have increased the fee from something reasonable to something unreasonable.

Yes 9% APR isn't bad. But 21% APR is bad.

Re: Beware of Amex Working Capital Terms program

Five6Two — Mon, 30 Dec 2019 06:35:29 GMT

I got the pop-up today, was this a SP or HP when you accepted the initial terms in order to participate in program?

Re: Beware of Amex Working Capital Terms program

601flyguy — Mon, 30 Dec 2019 15:56:18 GMT

I've been looking into this but don't have any actual vendors... The % is account specific. I see 1, 2, and 3%

Re: Beware of Amex Working Capital Terms program

SouthJamaica — Tue, 31 Dec 2019 03:45:37 GMT

@Five6Two wrote:
I got the pop-up today, was this a SP or HP when you accepted the initial terms in order to participate in program?

Soft pull. If any.

Re: Beware of Amex Working Capital Terms program

SouthJamaica — Thu, 26 Mar 2020 15:33:34 GMT

Update to my reporting on how bad American Express's "Working Capital Terms" program is:

In the midst of this coronavirus crisis, with all the help the Federal Reserve has been giving them, American Express has dropped my credit available through the WCT program to..... ZERO.

So much for the stupid voodoo economics which preaches that helping banks helps small businesses.

Re: Beware of Amex Working Capital Terms program

werthere — Thu, 26 Mar 2020 18:26:56 GMT

@SouthJamaica wrote:
Update to my reporting on how bad American Express's "Working Capital Terms" program is:

In the midst of this coronavirus crisis, with all the help the Federal Reserve has been giving them, American Express has dropped my credit available through the WCT program to..... ZERO.

So much for the stupid voodoo economics which preaches that helping banks helps small businesses.

I don't know bud, I just logged in and I'm still seeing the same amount "able to borrow" at the same monthly fee as it was when I looked at this couple of months ago.

Re: Beware of Amex Working Capital Terms program

SouthJamaica — Fri, 27 Mar 2020 03:58:57 GMT

@werthere wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:
Update to my reporting on how bad American Express's "Working Capital Terms" program is:

In the midst of this coronavirus crisis, with all the help the Federal Reserve has been giving them, American Express has dropped my credit available through the WCT program to..... ZERO.

So much for the stupid voodoo economics which preaches that helping banks helps small businesses.

I don't know bud, I just logged in and I'm still seeing the same amount "able to borrow" at the same monthly fee as it was when I looked at this couple of months ago.

Well no doubt your stats are better than mine at the moment. My scores are a little on the weak side due to higher than usual utilization, but my payment history is perfect.

If the Fed gave all these trillions of dollars in gift horses to the financial giants, wasn't some ot that supposed to "trickle down" to prop up small businesses who are struggling?

I've used this program since its inception, always had $30,000 to $35,000 available, and always repaid each item ahead of schedule. Since October I haven't asked them for a nickel. Wouldn't you think some of that would count for something? They couldn't throw $5,000 in there for a good customer at a critical time like this when the rug's been pulled out from under people?

I'm sorry but this leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.

Re: Beware of Amex Working Capital Terms program

werthere — Fri, 27 Mar 2020 16:45:49 GMT

@SouthJamaica wrote:
@werthere wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:
Update to my reporting on how bad American Express's "Working Capital Terms" program is:

In the midst of this coronavirus crisis, with all the help the Federal Reserve has been giving them, American Express has dropped my credit available through the WCT program to..... ZERO.

So much for the stupid voodoo economics which preaches that helping banks helps small businesses.

I don't know bud, I just logged in and I'm still seeing the same amount "able to borrow" at the same monthly fee as it was when I looked at this couple of months ago.
Well no doubt your stats are better than mine at the moment. My scores are a little on the weak side due to higher than usual utilization, but my payment history is perfect.

If the Fed gave all these trillions of dollars in gift horses to the financial giants, wasn't some ot that supposed to "trickle down" to prop up small businesses who are struggling?

I've used this program since its inception, always had $30,000 to $35,000 available, and always repaid each item ahead of schedule. Since October I haven't asked them for a nickel. Wouldn't you think some of that would count for something? They couldn't throw $5,000 in there for a good customer at a critical time like this when the rug's been pulled out from under people?

I'm sorry but this leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.

Are you in a hard hit industry? I have a feeling they may be mitigating risks right now based on SIC or NAICS codes more than anything else.

Re: Beware of Amex Working Capital Terms program

SouthJamaica — Sat, 28 Mar 2020 03:51:58 GMT

@werthere wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:
@werthere wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:
Update to my reporting on how bad American Express's "Working Capital Terms" program is:

In the midst of this coronavirus crisis, with all the help the Federal Reserve has been giving them, American Express has dropped my credit available through the WCT program to..... ZERO.

So much for the stupid voodoo economics which preaches that helping banks helps small businesses.

I don't know bud, I just logged in and I'm still seeing the same amount "able to borrow" at the same monthly fee as it was when I looked at this couple of months ago.
Well no doubt your stats are better than mine at the moment. My scores are a little on the weak side due to higher than usual utilization, but my payment history is perfect.

If the Fed gave all these trillions of dollars in gift horses to the financial giants, wasn't some ot that supposed to "trickle down" to prop up small businesses who are struggling?

I've used this program since its inception, always had $30,000 to $35,000 available, and always repaid each item ahead of schedule. Since October I haven't asked them for a nickel. Wouldn't you think some of that would count for something? They couldn't throw $5,000 in there for a good customer at a critical time like this when the rug's been pulled out from under people?

I'm sorry but this leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.
Are you in a hard hit industry? I have a feeling they may be mitigating risks right now based on SIC or NAICS codes more than anything else.

Of course I am, but weren't the trillions of dollars funneled by the Fed to the banks supposed to encourage them to help those industries? What a scam. Those trillions should have been made directly available to the businesses, not to banks.

Re: Beware of Amex Working Capital Terms program

werthere — Sat, 28 Mar 2020 15:26:02 GMT

@SouthJamaica wrote:
@werthere wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:
@werthere wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:
Update to my reporting on how bad American Express's "Working Capital Terms" program is:

In the midst of this coronavirus crisis, with all the help the Federal Reserve has been giving them, American Express has dropped my credit available through the WCT program to..... ZERO.

So much for the stupid voodoo economics which preaches that helping banks helps small businesses.

I don't know bud, I just logged in and I'm still seeing the same amount "able to borrow" at the same monthly fee as it was when I looked at this couple of months ago.
Well no doubt your stats are better than mine at the moment. My scores are a little on the weak side due to higher than usual utilization, but my payment history is perfect.

If the Fed gave all these trillions of dollars in gift horses to the financial giants, wasn't some ot that supposed to "trickle down" to prop up small businesses who are struggling?

I've used this program since its inception, always had $30,000 to $35,000 available, and always repaid each item ahead of schedule. Since October I haven't asked them for a nickel. Wouldn't you think some of that would count for something? They couldn't throw $5,000 in there for a good customer at a critical time like this when the rug's been pulled out from under people?

I'm sorry but this leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.
Are you in a hard hit industry? I have a feeling they may be mitigating risks right now based on SIC or NAICS codes more than anything else.
Of course I am, but weren't the trillions of dollars funneled by the Fed to the banks supposed to encourage them to help those industries? What a scam. Those trillions should have been made directly available to the businesses, not to banks.

I understand bud, but I don't think Amex will be doing any of these SBA 7(a) loans. I don't think they do them right now? I'm a landlord, and after three and a half months, eviction date was about to come around, and I got a call from Sheriffs the night before that they were postponing all evictions for two months. That means I'm out two at least more months worth of rent. I'm not sure that I'd lend me right now, and I'm sure AMEX feels the same way lending to those in hard hit industries.

Good luck and god speed.

Re: Beware of Amex Working Capital Terms program

ztnjpv — Sun, 28 Mar 2021 17:43:26 GMT

Hey I came on here seeing if anyone had more insight into Amex working Capital Terms going to ZERO for them too.

Mine went to zero at about the same time as for you and has been at zero ever since. I have called numerous times and never gotten any good info. My case was even "escalated" for manual review by the credit department since profile looked impeccable all around. Excellent credit and perfect history with Amex. Still nothing changed.

Are you still at zero? So strange and frustrating. I really liked this tool.

Frankly, I'd like to stick it to Amex and not use their stuff and tell them that I'm boycotting their cards til something is done about this but that makes things even more inconvenient. Between my 3 Amex business cards I have well over $120k in credit available and, unlike with Capital One Spark, they don't report to my personal credit. (I PIF evey month but that still means I have high balancces that report to my CR. So obnoxious that Capital One does that for Spark. But that's neither here nor there. And then Chase Ink, I have 2 of them, don't provide enough credit line to avoid using amex comffortably. So I am stuck.

Re: Beware of Amex Working Capital Terms program

K-in-Boston — Tue, 30 Mar 2021 22:04:13 GMT

@SouthJamaica wrote:
Of course I am, but weren't the trillions of dollars funneled by the Fed to the banks supposed to encourage them to help those industries? What a scam. Those trillions should have been made directly available to the businesses, not to banks.

Billions not trillions for small business, but the money is for specific uses and the money has been made available directly to the businesses. Amex Working Capital Terms is a short-term loan between you and Amex, it is not part of a government-sponsored and backed direct business lending program. American Express does not participate as a lender for those loans, and those loans were introduced after this thread began.

Re: Beware of Amex Working Capital Terms program

SouthJamaica — Wed, 31 Mar 2021 02:39:33 GMT

@K-in-Boston wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:
Of course I am, but weren't the trillions of dollars funneled by the Fed to the banks supposed to encourage them to help those industries? What a scam. Those trillions should have been made directly available to the businesses, not to banks.
Billions not trillions for small business, but the money is for specific uses and the money has been made available directly to the businesses. Amex Working Capital Terms is a short-term loan between you and Amex, it is not part of a government-sponsored and backed direct business lending program. American Express does not participate as a lender for those loans, and those loans were introduced after this thread began.

You're talking about the laws authorizing SBA loans -- PPA and EIDL.

I'm talking about something completely different. The action the Fed took on its own at the start of the lockdown to restore liquidity in the financial markets. At the outset of the lockdown the Fed injected two giant infusions totalling around $3 trillion directly into the financial system. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-federalreserve-mar/federal-reserves-3-trillion-virus-rescue-inflates-market-bubbles-idUSKCN24E13G

Banks should have been making that money available to customers. Instead they tightened their lending standards.

Re: Beware of Amex Working Capital Terms program

SouthJamaica — Wed, 31 Mar 2021 02:35:56 GMT

@ztnjpv wrote:
Hey I came on here seeing if anyone had more insight into Amex working Capital Terms going to ZERO for them too.

Mine went to zero at about the same time as for you and has been at zero ever since. I have called numerous times and never gotten any good info. My case was even "escalated" for manual review by the credit department since profile looked impeccable all around. Excellent credit and perfect history with Amex. Still nothing changed.

Are you still at zero? So strange and frustrating. I really liked this tool.

Frankly, I'd like to stick it to Amex and not use their stuff and tell them that I'm boycotting their cards til something is done about this but that makes things even more inconvenient. Between my 3 Amex business cards I have well over $120k in credit available and, unlike with Capital One Spark, they don't report to my personal credit. (I PIF evey month but that still means I have high balancces that report to my CR. So obnoxious that Capital One does that for Spark. But that's neither here nor there. And then Chase Ink, I have 2 of them, don't provide enough credit line to avoid using amex comffortably. So I am stuck.

Yeah, I'm still at zero.