topic Re: Advice on building business credit sought in Business Credit

Advice on building business credit sought

Expansion — Sat, 26 Feb 2022 04:05:19 GMT

Back in 2017 I did a ton of research into business credit building, started building business credit, and then redirected my energy elsewhere.

Revisiting my research, I'm sensing that a lot has changed, and a lot of the resources available even now are out of date.

I could use some suggestions for what actions to take next.

My business is an S corp

In business since 2003

Incorporated 2014

business bank account started 2016

annual revenue about $100k

Back in 2017, I got my D&B number

and also set up and started using net 30 accounts with:

Quill

Uline

Grainger

and Discount School Supply.

I think I just got discouraged because I had a hard time finding net 30s where I could buy things I actually used. And then it hit a point in 2017 where I really couldn't stomach buying stuff I didn't need.

I'm open to doing some PGs to get started. I'm aware of the risks.

I just applied for a Home Depot Commercial Account. And also applied for Torpago since I think I meet their criteria.

1. If there's an up-to-date thread with step-by-step actions I'd love to see it, I haven't been able to dig one up. I've read through Business Credit 101 thread here on this forum, but even though it's super helpful, since it dates back to 2007 I know parts are out of date.

2. Specific recommended actions in my situation?

Re: Advice on building business credit sought

FinStar — Sat, 26 Feb 2022 05:18:45 GMT

How's your personal credit profile? How long has it been established and what kind of ballpark scores do you have? How often do you use your current net30 accounts?

Chances are you can qualify for better CC products without a PG. Are you interested in building your business credit profile for larger purchases, other business investments, have better flexibility for working capital/cash flow or...?

Unfortunately, there isn't any updated 'Business Credit 101' particulars, but depending on your business needs, the community can point you in the right direction.

Re: Advice on building business credit sought

Expansion — Sat, 26 Feb 2022 05:31:49 GMT

Hey FinStar! Thank you for these excellent questions!

My personal credit profile is ... OK.

Established since 2003.

651 Equifax, 675 TransUnion, not sure about my Experian.

What's tanking my personal scores is high utilization due to a really rough period a while back where I had to use my credit cards to cover my butt. But my scores are slowly recovering with time. (I think I just crossed the line from "not good" to "good" with TransUnion.) My payments are always on time.

So you're right that I can probably get better approvals without a PG.

I haven't really used my net 30 accounts since 2017. But I'm open to reactivating them, or re-starting them.

I'd say my overall goal is just to have healthy balanced credit. Being able to make purchases and have a credit entity that's not just all under my personal credit. Having business credit to buy a new computer when I need one, without needing to put it on my personal cards. That kind of thing.

Re: Advice on building business credit sought

FinStar — Sat, 26 Feb 2022 05:44:19 GMT

@Expansion wrote:
Hey FinStar! Thank you for these excellent questions!

My personal credit profile is ... OK.

Established since 2003.

651 Equifax, 675 TransUnion, not sure about my Experian.

What's tanking my personal scores is high utilization due to a really rough period a while back where I had to use my credit cards to cover my butt. But my scores are slowly recovering with time. (I think I just crossed the line from "not good" to "good" with TransUnion.) My payments are always on time.

So you're right that I can probably get better approvals without a PG.

I haven't really used my net 30 accounts since 2017. But I'm open to reactivating them, or re-starting them.

I'd say my overall goal is just to have healthy balanced credit. Being able to make purchases and have a credit entity that's not just all under my personal credit. Having business credit to buy a new computer when I need one, without needing to put it on my personal cards. That kind of thing.

Sure, anytime.

Ok, so it sounds like you've had a long, established history and your credit scores are definitely improving on the personal side of things, so that's a plus. The reason I mention this is because a variety of the major banks who issue some of the most popular business cards will pull personal credit. So, having a decent foundation there helps. Granted, once approved they won't report to your personal credit reports, unless accounts go into default.

With that being said, can you share some of your current lenders, on the personal credit side? How's your overall utilization looking at the moment?

Re: Advice on building business credit sought

Expansion — Sat, 26 Feb 2022 05:51:13 GMT

Sure! I've got cards with Santander, Barclays, Mercury, Chase, Citi, Amex, NavyFed, Bank of America, Wells Fargo, and Credit One.

The overall utilization is really bad. Like 90%. All going back to the really rough period where I just had to use my cards to cover emergencies.

Miraculously, on the personal side, I was approved for an Upstart loan a few months back at a decent rate, which I used to consolidate my highest-rate cards. So with Chase and Credit One my utilization is 0%. But I know it's more about the overall utilization.

That's part of why I'm interested in building my business credit - just having a separate entity where I can start with a clean slate, and potentially build faster than on the personal side, where it has been steady but often feels realllllly slow.

Re: Advice on building business credit sought

FinStar — Sat, 26 Feb 2022 06:42:56 GMT

@Expansion wrote:
Sure! I've got cards with Santander, Barclays, Mercury, Chase, Citi, Amex, NavyFed, Bank of America, Wells Fargo, and Credit One.

The overall utilization is really bad. Like 90%. All going back to the really rough period where I just had to use my cards to cover emergencies.

Miraculously, on the personal side, I was approved for an Upstart loan a few months back at a decent rate, which I used to consolidate my highest-rate cards. So with Chase and Credit One my utilization is 0%. But I know it's more about the overall utilization.

That's part of why I'm interested in building my business credit - just having a separate entity where I can start with a clean slate, and potentially build faster than on the personal side, where it has been steady but often feels realllllly slow.

The utilization can definitely be something that would need a little TLC, but it's definitely doable. We have a great community that can help formulate some strategies for how to get it to a more ideal level. If you would like, you can always start a thread in our General Credit section of the forums by listing your current cards, balances, limits and APRs and we can share some tips on how to improve that area. This is purely optional, of course, but I believe it can help -- only if you wish.

Based on what you've shared, it appears you're very diversified as far as lenders go. So, there's some good options to test things credit-wise to determine where you stand at the moment. For instance, you already have a personal AmEx relationship, if you were to try to select a personal card while logged into your account (you can select something like Cash Magnet for example) and click the Apply button (without finalizing anything), the system will determine if you are pre-approved for that particular one. If so, that's a good indicator that you could potentially be approved for an AmEx business credit card. If no pre-approved language displays, that's ok, you can exit/cancel the application -- no harm no foul. This doesn't impact your credit profile at all.

You can also test the waters by doing a pre-qualification with FNBO's Evergreen business card. You can fill out the form to see whether you pre-qualify (this will be SP) -- there will not be a HP for just checking. If there are no offers, no worries. We're simply testing the waters.

https://www.fnbo.com/small-business/credit-cards/evergreen/

Another thing that I'll mention is that if no pre-qualified offers pop up, that's ok. Don't let that discourage your path to getting to the business cards you want. Some things just take time.

Re: Advice on building business credit sought

Expansion — Sat, 26 Feb 2022 18:41:17 GMT

Thank you so much for these very specific suggestions, FinStar!

I went into my AmEx account and when I clicked on "apply" for the cash magnet card, I got a screen asking for full name, total annual income, non taxable annual income (optional), and total financial assets. Then there's an "agree and submit" button. Does that mean that there's no pre-approval?

With Evergreen I got a "join our waitlist" signup box.

Any thoughts on what to try next?

Re: Advice on building business credit sought

Expansion — Sat, 26 Feb 2022 19:06:30 GMT

PS. I just calculated my exact current utilization on my personal cards and it is 85.6% - better than I thought!! Below 90, hooray!!

Re: Advice on building business credit sought

Expansion — Sat, 26 Feb 2022 22:26:23 GMT

FinStar, I posted as you recommended over in General Credit. The advice I got so far wasn't particularly helpful, so I might take the post down, but I wanted to get your feedback first, if you get a chance to look at it. No pressure. Thanks for all your help so far.

And just for some context, my situation is very stable -- my business is full with a waitlist, my income has been steadily growing, I haven't needed to add anything to my credit card balances for a couple of years, and I haven't applied for any new credit except the upstart loan in 2021 and the business credit that we've talked about so far on this thread.

Re: Advice on building business credit sought

FinStar — Sun, 27 Feb 2022 01:29:15 GMT

@Expansion wrote:
FinStar, I posted as you recommended over in General Credit. The advice I got so far wasn't particularly helpful, so I might take the post down, but I wanted to get your feedback first, if you get a chance to look at it. No pressure. Thanks for all your help so far.

And just for some context, my situation is very stable -- my business is full with a waitlist, my income has been steadily growing, I haven't needed to add anything to my credit card balances for a couple of years, and I haven't applied for any new credit except the upstart loan in 2021 and the business credit that we've talked about so far on this thread.

I see that some newer posts from some very helpful folks have started guiding the discussion in a positive direction. Once the utilization numbers start to make some meaningful impacts (credit scores-wise), we can revisit your business credit needs.

The issue that we might run into is that if you haven't used your existing business net30 accounts, it's possible that some lenders may require a PG if business credit profile has been dormant for a while, unless you've used them recently.

Re: Advice on building business credit sought

FinStar — Sun, 27 Feb 2022 01:32:00 GMT

@Expansion wrote:
Thank you so much for these very specific suggestions, FinStar!

I went into my AmEx account and when I clicked on "apply" for the cash magnet card, I got a screen asking for full name, total annual income, non taxable annual income (optional), and total financial assets. Then there's an "agree and submit" button. Does that mean that there's no pre-approval?

With Evergreen I got a "join our waitlist" signup box.

Any thoughts on what to try next?

Correct, not a pre-approval. The pre-approved language would display at the top of the screen when selecting a specific card -- if your profile is eligible for the pre-qualification. So, we have a little more work to do, but not all is lost 🙂

Re: Advice on building business credit sought

Expansion — Sun, 27 Feb 2022 02:13:09 GMT

@FinStar Thank you so much for intervening over on my other thread. You really helped rally the community to turn things around

My sense is it probably makes sense to wait until I hear from Torpago. Since I got some unexpected fintech approvals on the personal side, maybe it will also happen on the business side.

If Torpago's off the table, would you recommend I just focus on using my existing net 30s (or re-establishing them if needed)?

I also really appreciate your encouraging words. I feel a sense of balance and calm, which is where I want to be coming from with all of this!

Re: Advice on building business credit sought

FinStar — Sun, 27 Feb 2022 02:59:12 GMT

@Expansion wrote:
@FinStar Thank you so much for intervening over on my other thread. You really helped rally the community to turn things around

My sense is it probably makes sense to wait until I hear from Torpago. Since I got some unexpected fintech approvals on the personal side, maybe it will also happen on the business side.

If Torpago's off the table, would you recommend I just focus on using my existing net 30s (or re-establishing them if needed)?

I also really appreciate your encouraging words. I feel a sense of balance and calm, which is where I want to be coming from with all of this!

My pleasure @Expansion, happy to help!

I'm very glad you posted this thread and shared your overall goals, both personal and business. I apologize if things got off to a wobbly start on the other topic and thankfully our helpful members were able to provide you some sage advice as well as a viable path for achieving your goals. It may take a little time and some effort, but we are all here to help you succeed.

As far as Torpago, let's see what decision they arrive and we can formulate some next steps. If it's a no-go, no worries. Plenty of opportunities down the road.

Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with the net30 accounts that you currently have, but I would imagine that they can be reactivated if you haven't used them in a while? Let's see if @GApeachy, @bizcredit11 (or other members who may be familiar with those) can chime in.

If any other questions arise, please let us know.

Re: Advice on building business credit sought

Expansion — Sun, 27 Feb 2022 02:46:32 GMT

Got it! I will keep you posted on Torpago. Thank you for everything, it's amazing how much the discussion shifted in just a few hours.

Re: Advice on building business credit sought

Expansion — Tue, 08 Mar 2022 06:27:02 GMT

@FinStar I heard back from Torpago and I was not approved, due to "low bank account balances."

I thought I met their criteria, but I guess I can wait and reapply when balances are higher. (Some of my clients pay up front for months at a time, others are on monthly payment plans, so there are times when the balances are much higher than others.)

Do you think Torpago is worth a recon?

Thoughts on what steps to take next, other than the Torpago route?

Re: Advice on building business credit sought

FinStar — Tue, 08 Mar 2022 06:56:36 GMT

@Expansion wrote:
@FinStar I heard back from Torpago and I was not approved, due to "low bank account balances."

I thought I met their criteria, but I guess I can wait and reapply when balances are higher. (Some of my clients pay up front for months at a time, others are on monthly payment plans, so there are times when the balances are much higher than others.)

Do you think Torpago is worth a recon?

Thoughts on what steps to take next, other than the Torpago route?

I think Topago might need to wait for a bit unless you're able to get the account balances are higher. I don't think they're known for reconsiderations, but it doesn't hurt to ask them.

So, how about the other net30 accounts that you currently have? I'm not sure if you've checked or called those specific lenders to see whether they're still active.

Re: Advice on building business credit sought

Expansion — Tue, 08 Mar 2022 07:08:27 GMT

thanks, @FinStar !

With Torpago, some people say $5k/month, others say $10k/month. My average revenue right now is $10k+/month but they might have dinged me for it not being closer to that every month, who knows?

In the past I definitely had net 30s with quill and uline (I vividly remember what I ordered from them)

and maybe also grainger, gempler's, and discount school supply.

I will reach out and check in with all of them to re-activate (and double-check that they still report).

Then start making regular monthly orders.

And then what comes next after that?

Re: Advice on building business credit sought

FinStar — Tue, 08 Mar 2022 07:19:58 GMT

@Expansion wrote:
thanks, @FinStar !

With Torpago, some people say $5k/month, others say $10k/month. My average revenue right now is $10k+/month but they might have dinged me for it not being closer to that every month, who knows?

In the past I definitely had net 30s with quill and uline (I vividly remember what I ordered from them)
and maybe also grainger, gempler's, and discount school supply.

I will reach out and check in with all of them to re-activate (and double-check that they still report).

Then start making regular monthly orders.

And then what comes next after that?

If you're able to get any of them reactivated, perhaps use a couple of them (nominal transactions but nothing to disrupt your cash flow position) to drive some business reporting as I'm fairly certain your business reports may be somewhat dormant.

Then, once that's in place we can look at potentially adding other more useful non-PG accounts. We'll have to monitor your progress on the personal side to ensure there's been some significant improvements to be considered for other biz CCs from either FNBO, AmEx, Citizens, Divvy, etc.

Re: Advice on building business credit sought

Expansion — Tue, 08 Mar 2022 07:37:41 GMT

Thank you @FinStar ! I like this plan.

Question: Is there a minimum amount for the orders to actually get reported? I've read conflicting advice in different places. Forgive me if this is listed elsewhere on the forum.

Re: Advice on building business credit sought

Expansion — Wed, 16 Mar 2022 22:37:06 GMT

Fun update!

I got an invitation in the mail today from FNBO for the Maximum Rewards Visa with a 0% BTO through June 2023. So signing up for their waitlist actually led to me getting an offer in the mail.

That was fast!

Do I have any chance of getting approved with

1) my extremely thin (like 2 transactions from 5 years ago) D&B file? or

2) a PG (personal credit with 85% utilization, as detailed elsewhere)?

Which would be best to try?

Do I have anything to lose by applying?

@FinStar