topic Re: How come Amex charge cards have annual fees? in Credit Cards

How come Amex charge cards have annual fees?

Anonymous — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 02:25:48 GMT

I find it odd that a card that forces us to pay the balance every month has an annual fee while some Amex credit cards have no annual fee. Reason?

Re: How come Amex charge cards have annual fees?

Anonymous — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 02:30:06 GMT

High rewards and benefits.

Re: How come Amex charge cards have annual fees?

Anonymous — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 02:30:36 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
High rewards and benefits.

Re: How come Amex charge cards have annual fees?

Anonymous — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 02:35:49 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I find it odd that a card that forces us to pay the balance every month has an annual fee while some Amex credit cards have no annual fee. Reason?

Your question contains a large portion of the answer. If the cardholder cannot carry a balance and pay interest to AMEX over balance carrying months, they need to recoup some of their expenditure on MR points, discounted hotels, etc. It helps add a little back in to the margin that would otherwise only be generated by merchant transaction fees.

Re: How come Amex charge cards have annual fees?

Anonymous — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 02:40:19 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
I find it odd that a card that forces us to pay the balance every month has an annual fee while some Amex credit cards have no annual fee. Reason?
Your question contains a large portion of the answer. If the cardholder cannot carry a balance and pay interest to AMEX over balance carrying months, they need to recoup some of their expenditure on MR points, discounted hotels, etc. It helps add a little back in to the margin that would otherwise only be generated by merchant transaction fees.

Still don't quite understand this.. I'm sorry I've never had a charge card before, but I'm interested in getting one.

Re: How come Amex charge cards have annual fees?

Anonymous — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 02:46:05 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
I find it odd that a card that forces us to pay the balance every month has an annual fee while some Amex credit cards have no annual fee. Reason?
Your question contains a large portion of the answer. If the cardholder cannot carry a balance and pay interest to AMEX over balance carrying months, they need to recoup some of their expenditure on MR points, discounted hotels, etc. It helps add a little back in to the margin that would otherwise only be generated by merchant transaction fees.
Still don't quite understand this.. I'm sorry I've never had a charge card before, but I'm interested in getting one.

It makes sense to me. You can't carry a balance so you don't pay AMEX interest. They need another way to make some money from you since they're giving you rewards. BAM, annual fee. They can't provide you with rewards if they aren't making money so...

Re: How come Amex charge cards have annual fees?

Anonymous — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 02:49:22 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
I find it odd that a card that forces us to pay the balance every month has an annual fee while some Amex credit cards have no annual fee. Reason?
Your question contains a large portion of the answer. If the cardholder cannot carry a balance and pay interest to AMEX over balance carrying months, they need to recoup some of their expenditure on MR points, discounted hotels, etc. It helps add a little back in to the margin that would otherwise only be generated by merchant transaction fees.
Still don't quite understand this.. I'm sorry I've never had a charge card before, but I'm interested in getting one.

Okay, so with a traditional revolving credit card. American Express Everyday for example. There is no annual fee, but you will notice that you have an APR (rate of interest charged annually on your purchases that are not paid in full within the grace period). Let's say it is 20.99%. When you buy something at a store AMEX gets a small fee from the merchant, then they are hoping that you will take a few months to pay for the charge so they can make money by charging you interest at a rate of 20.99% per year. Those would be the two revenue generating avenues on a revolving card.

On your charge card, there is no option for you to carry a balance from month to month so AMEX doesn't get any money from you by charging you interest. The only way they make money when you buy something is the small percentage they charge the merchant for allowing you to pay with your AMEX card. So from these two examples you can see that the charge card would presumably be less profitable for them. In order to make up for the interest they will never make from you, they charge you an annual fee.

This is why for some people who do not maximize AMEX's rewards programs and spend a decent amount of money on the charge cards, it is absolutely a poor financial decision to have one.

Re: How come Amex charge cards have annual fees?

CreditCuriosity — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 02:50:19 GMT

5% swipe fee, but not enough for them.. They want more.. Guessing most major CC's make money off interest vs. swipe fees... Would like to know the breakdown on this, being how much revenue is generated by swipe vs carrying balances.. Why do you think Amex also got into revolvers, more money to be made!

Re: How come Amex charge cards have annual fees?

jsucool76 — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 04:13:08 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
High rewards and benefits.

High rewards, not so much. Benefits...eh, except for the platinum.

The plat card is the only one that I think can charge the AF ethically.

The green, gold (which is...entirely useless) and premier rewards gold are all meh cards. Only reason i got a PRG was for the signup bonus, and i dont see a need for it ever again, unless i can get another signup bonus. The earning rates aren't that fantastic, and I really think the ED/EDP have made the green/gold/prg obsolete.

Green - 1pt/$1, 2pt/$1 through amex travel

Gold - Same...but more expensive

PRG 1pt/$1, 2pt/$1 through amex travel, gas,supermarkets, and 3pt/$1 on airfare with the airline.

Plat - 1pt/$1, 2pt/$1 on amex travel, but benefits.

None of the other charge cards really offer benefits that blow me away. I mean, i ordered dominos once and didnt have to pay the delivery fee because of shoprunner, but I get that same benefit with a no AF card from amex....lol

Re: How come Amex charge cards have annual fees?

Anonymous — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 04:35:26 GMT

@jsucool76 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
High rewards and benefits.
High rewards, not so much. Benefits...eh, except for the platinum.

The plat card is the only one that I think can charge the AF ethically.

The green, gold (which is...entirely useless) and premier rewards gold are all meh cards. Only reason i got a PRG was for the signup bonus, and i dont see a need for it ever again, unless i can get another signup bonus. The earning rates aren't that fantastic, and I really think the ED/EDP have made the green/gold/prg obsolete.

Green - 1pt/$1, 2pt/$1 through amex travel
Gold - Same...but more expensive
PRG 1pt/$1, 2pt/$1 through amex travel, gas,supermarkets, and 3pt/$1 on airfare with the airline.
Plat - 1pt/$1, 2pt/$1 on amex travel, but benefits.

None of the other charge cards really offer benefits that blow me away. I mean, i ordered dominos once and didnt have to pay the delivery fee because of shoprunner, but I get that same benefit with a no AF card from amex....lol

I don't know why I bother sticking up for the charge cards, but I personally benefit more from them. Everyday/EDP has $6000 spending cap on groceries, PRG would allow you to keep spending in the 2x points category. If you are a bigger spender the charge cards are definitely more liberal in the arena of earning rewards points. There is a definite breakeven point for which card is best for each person's situation. If you can ballpark your spending, a little algebra will tell you which card is best.

Re: How come Amex charge cards have annual fees?

elim — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 04:41:02 GMT

AMEX chargers aren't really chargers anymore if you op-in and are approved for POT.

ELIM, you enrolled your Premier Rewards Gold Card in the Extended Payment Option. As a reminder, all eligible charges of $100 or more can be paid over time. It's easy:

•	When you receive your monthly statement, the account summary will highlight charges eligible to be paid over time.

•	You can choose whether to pay the charges in full, the minimum due, or any amount in between.

•	Additionally, earn Membership Rewards® points2 for every eligible dollar you spend.

Call the number on the back of your Card with any questions, and enjoy the flexibility the Extended Payment Option can provide. Thank you for your continued Card Membership.

this option will give you a 35k total line of credit on charges of $100 or more (at 17.99% i think) that you add to the pay-over-time feature.

it still does not report a limit on my CR's and reports as a credit card.

you can only add items to POT after your statement cuts.

I haven't used it and don't plan to but it's nice to know it's there if it hits the fan.

the member benefits alone make it (PRG in my case) a good card. but at $175 AF it may or may not see another year. (the 50k MR is worth 4 or 5 years of AF in my book)

Re: How come Amex charge cards have annual fees?

jsucool76 — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 04:41:33 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@jsucool76 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
High rewards and benefits.
High rewards, not so much. Benefits...eh, except for the platinum.

The plat card is the only one that I think can charge the AF ethically.

The green, gold (which is...entirely useless) and premier rewards gold are all meh cards. Only reason i got a PRG was for the signup bonus, and i dont see a need for it ever again, unless i can get another signup bonus. The earning rates aren't that fantastic, and I really think the ED/EDP have made the green/gold/prg obsolete.

Green - 1pt/$1, 2pt/$1 through amex travel
Gold - Same...but more expensive
PRG 1pt/$1, 2pt/$1 through amex travel, gas,supermarkets, and 3pt/$1 on airfare with the airline.
Plat - 1pt/$1, 2pt/$1 on amex travel, but benefits.

None of the other charge cards really offer benefits that blow me away. I mean, i ordered dominos once and didnt have to pay the delivery fee because of shoprunner, but I get that same benefit with a no AF card from amex....lol
I don't know why I bother sticking up for the charge cards, but I personally benefit more from them. Everyday/EDP has $6000 spending cap on groceries, PRG would allow you to keep spending in the 2x points category. If you are a bigger spender the charge cards are definitely more liberal in the arena of earning rewards points. There is a definite breakeven point for which card is best for each person's situation. If you can ballpark your spending, a little algebra will tell you which card is best.

Yes, but on the EDP with the 3x on supermarkets and then the 50% bonus with 30 transactions, that 6k a year on supermarket spend will net you 27000 points alone. You would need to spend 13.5k on the PRG to get that many points for supermarket spend, and even if you spend that much yearly on supermarkets, why not get the EDP AND the PRG, and then you'd earn 42000 a year on supermarket spend (if you spent 13.5k a year on groceries)

Even with the earning cap, if you're clearing the 30 transactions a month, you're earning 1.5 points on your 1 point categories, 3 points on your 2 point categories, and 4.5 points on your 3 point categories.

So the points you're missing out on with the earning cap are essentially made up for by your other categories, and at a cheaper price.

Re: How come Amex charge cards have annual fees?

Anonymous — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 04:47:08 GMT

@jsucool76 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@jsucool76 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
High rewards and benefits.
High rewards, not so much. Benefits...eh, except for the platinum.

The plat card is the only one that I think can charge the AF ethically.

The green, gold (which is...entirely useless) and premier rewards gold are all meh cards. Only reason i got a PRG was for the signup bonus, and i dont see a need for it ever again, unless i can get another signup bonus. The earning rates aren't that fantastic, and I really think the ED/EDP have made the green/gold/prg obsolete.

Green - 1pt/$1, 2pt/$1 through amex travel
Gold - Same...but more expensive
PRG 1pt/$1, 2pt/$1 through amex travel, gas,supermarkets, and 3pt/$1 on airfare with the airline.
Plat - 1pt/$1, 2pt/$1 on amex travel, but benefits.

None of the other charge cards really offer benefits that blow me away. I mean, i ordered dominos once and didnt have to pay the delivery fee because of shoprunner, but I get that same benefit with a no AF card from amex....lol
I don't know why I bother sticking up for the charge cards, but I personally benefit more from them. Everyday/EDP has $6000 spending cap on groceries, PRG would allow you to keep spending in the 2x points category. If you are a bigger spender the charge cards are definitely more liberal in the arena of earning rewards points. There is a definite breakeven point for which card is best for each person's situation. If you can ballpark your spending, a little algebra will tell you which card is best.
Yes, but on the EDP with the 3x on supermarkets and then the 50% bonus with 30 transactions, that 6k a year on supermarket spend will net you 27000 points alone. You would need to spend 13.5k on the PRG to get that many points for supermarket spend, and even if you spend that much yearly on supermarkets, why not get the EDP AND the PRG, and then you'd earn 42000 a year on supermarket spend (if you spent 13.5k a year on groceries)

Even with the earning cap, if you're clearing the 30 transactions a month, you're earning 1.5 points on your 1 point categories, 3 points on your 2 point categories, and 4.5 points on your 3 point categories.

So the points you're missing out on with the earning cap are essentially made up for by your other categories, and at a cheaper price.

Right, but the point remains that there are certain types and levels of spending where a particular card could be the best (among Amex anyway) So if you do lots of airfare, the 3x on the PRG will more than make up for the extra 0.5MR on non-category spend on the EDP.

Re: How come Amex charge cards have annual fees?

Anonymous — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 04:52:12 GMT

@jsucool76 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@jsucool76 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
High rewards and benefits.
High rewards, not so much. Benefits...eh, except for the platinum.

The plat card is the only one that I think can charge the AF ethically.

The green, gold (which is...entirely useless) and premier rewards gold are all meh cards. Only reason i got a PRG was for the signup bonus, and i dont see a need for it ever again, unless i can get another signup bonus. The earning rates aren't that fantastic, and I really think the ED/EDP have made the green/gold/prg obsolete.

Green - 1pt/$1, 2pt/$1 through amex travel
Gold - Same...but more expensive
PRG 1pt/$1, 2pt/$1 through amex travel, gas,supermarkets, and 3pt/$1 on airfare with the airline.
Plat - 1pt/$1, 2pt/$1 on amex travel, but benefits.

None of the other charge cards really offer benefits that blow me away. I mean, i ordered dominos once and didnt have to pay the delivery fee because of shoprunner, but I get that same benefit with a no AF card from amex....lol
I don't know why I bother sticking up for the charge cards, but I personally benefit more from them. Everyday/EDP has $6000 spending cap on groceries, PRG would allow you to keep spending in the 2x points category. If you are a bigger spender the charge cards are definitely more liberal in the arena of earning rewards points. There is a definite breakeven point for which card is best for each person's situation. If you can ballpark your spending, a little algebra will tell you which card is best.
Yes, but on the EDP with the 3x on supermarkets and then the 50% bonus with 30 transactions, that 6k a year on supermarket spend will net you 27000 points alone. You would need to spend 13.5k on the PRG to get that many points for supermarket spend, and even if you spend that much yearly on supermarkets, why not get the EDP AND the PRG, and then you'd earn 42000 a year on supermarket spend (if you spent 13.5k a year on groceries)

Even with the earning cap, if you're clearing the 30 transactions a month, you're earning 1.5 points on your 1 point categories, 3 points on your 2 point categories, and 4.5 points on your 3 point categories.

So the points you're missing out on with the earning cap are essentially made up for by your other categories, and at a cheaper price.

Well now we are significantly complicating things by possibly carrying both the EDP and the PRG... We would have to figure out where to allocate spending and how much spending would be required to offset the annual fee. Also it would introduce many other spending multipliers (even more variables). I can re-read all of these variables in the morning, after the rye whiskey it is seeming like too much to think about. Until tomorrow jsucool76!

And to previous poster, the Pay Over Time offered 18.24% when I received the literature on 1/5/2015 for my new Platinum card. I am not sure if that is standard across the program or just what was offered to me.

Re: How come Amex charge cards have annual fees?

jsucool76 — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 04:55:05 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@jsucool76 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@jsucool76 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
High rewards and benefits.
High rewards, not so much. Benefits...eh, except for the platinum.

The plat card is the only one that I think can charge the AF ethically.

The green, gold (which is...entirely useless) and premier rewards gold are all meh cards. Only reason i got a PRG was for the signup bonus, and i dont see a need for it ever again, unless i can get another signup bonus. The earning rates aren't that fantastic, and I really think the ED/EDP have made the green/gold/prg obsolete.

Green - 1pt/$1, 2pt/$1 through amex travel
Gold - Same...but more expensive
PRG 1pt/$1, 2pt/$1 through amex travel, gas,supermarkets, and 3pt/$1 on airfare with the airline.
Plat - 1pt/$1, 2pt/$1 on amex travel, but benefits.

None of the other charge cards really offer benefits that blow me away. I mean, i ordered dominos once and didnt have to pay the delivery fee because of shoprunner, but I get that same benefit with a no AF card from amex....lol
I don't know why I bother sticking up for the charge cards, but I personally benefit more from them. Everyday/EDP has $6000 spending cap on groceries, PRG would allow you to keep spending in the 2x points category. If you are a bigger spender the charge cards are definitely more liberal in the arena of earning rewards points. There is a definite breakeven point for which card is best for each person's situation. If you can ballpark your spending, a little algebra will tell you which card is best.
Yes, but on the EDP with the 3x on supermarkets and then the 50% bonus with 30 transactions, that 6k a year on supermarket spend will net you 27000 points alone. You would need to spend 13.5k on the PRG to get that many points for supermarket spend, and even if you spend that much yearly on supermarkets, why not get the EDP AND the PRG, and then you'd earn 42000 a year on supermarket spend (if you spent 13.5k a year on groceries)

Even with the earning cap, if you're clearing the 30 transactions a month, you're earning 1.5 points on your 1 point categories, 3 points on your 2 point categories, and 4.5 points on your 3 point categories.

So the points you're missing out on with the earning cap are essentially made up for by your other categories, and at a cheaper price.
Right, but the point remains that there are certain types and levels of spending where a particular card could be the best (among Amex anyway) So if you do lots of airfare, the 3x on the PRG will more than make up for the extra 0.5MR on non-category spend on the EDP.

And while there may be a few people on myfico who follow that rule and know whch is best, many people get amex charge cards just because they think it makes them look fancy and rich. There are so many people who dont know the actual benefits and rewards structures of cards. When we're talking myfico'ers we're talking a ridiculously small percentage of people.

My mom works for a company that has a corporate amex card (she's an accountant) and the CFO asked her to call amex and see what they could use their rewards for. (they had some ridiculous amount of points because business spend, I was and still am jealous) She came to me to ask, because the CFO wanted to use them as a statement credit, when meanwhile, they have people flying places all the time. I had to tell them that they could transfer the points to an airline program and then be able to use them for airline tickets for business trips.

Re: How come Amex charge cards have annual fees?

core — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 05:01:19 GMT

@jsucool76 wrote:
I mean, i ordered dominos once

On your Amex? Did you get FR'd?

@jsucool76 wrote:
None of the other charge cards really offer benefits that blow me away.

You don't get roadside assistance on the non-AF cards. An AAA membership would cost you. But I can see what you mean, because that was the only benefit that even interested me in the least, _after_ I had already committed to the card. But there are plenty of other benefits that might interest other people still. The benefits don't need to "blow you away", they just need to get you to pay the annual fee. And based on the surveys that Amex has been sending out recently, I think they know that their benefits (and MR rewards for non travelers) are lagging behind and they are possibly going to do something about it soon. Then again maybe they won't; who knows. But as long as people keep paying the AF they have no reason to change it soon.

Re: How come Amex charge cards have annual fees?

jsucool76 — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 05:04:34 GMT

@core wrote:
@jsucool76 wrote:
I mean, i ordered dominos once
On your Amex? Did you get FR'd?

@jsucool76 wrote:
None of the other charge cards really offer benefits that blow me away.
You don't get roadside assistance on the non-AF cards. An AAA membership would cost you. But I can see what you mean, because that was the only benefit that even interested me in the least, _after_ I had already committed to the card. But there are plenty of other benefits that might interest other people still. The benefits don't need to "blow you away", they just need to get you to pay the annual fee. And based on the surveys that Amex has been sending out recently, I think they know that their benefits (and MR rewards for non travelers) are lagging behind and they are possibly going to do something about it soon. Then again maybe they won't; who knows. But as long as people keep paying the AF they have no reason to change it soon.

Roadside assistance is free up to $50/instance. Anything more than that you pay out of pocket.

Not to mention AAA gets you a ton of other benefits. Discounted tickets to theme parks, hotel discounts, among countless others. I'd say an AAA membership has more useful benefits than an amex charge card.

Re: How come Amex charge cards have annual fees?

mongstradamus — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 05:05:07 GMT

@core wrote:
@jsucool76 wrote:
I mean, i ordered dominos once
On your Amex? Did you get FR'd?

@jsucool76 wrote:
None of the other charge cards really offer benefits that blow me away.
You don't get roadside assistance on the non-AF cards. An AAA membership would cost you. But I can see what you mean, because that was the only benefit that even interested me in the least, _after_ I had already committed to the card. But there are plenty of other benefits that might interest other people still. The benefits don't need to "blow you away", they just need to get you to pay the annual fee. And based on the surveys that Amex has been sending out recently, I think they know that their benefits (and MR rewards for non travelers) are lagging behind and they are possibly going to do something about it soon. Then again maybe they won't; who knows. But as long as people keep paying the AF they have no reason to change it soon.

Correct me if i am wrong but you do get it with ED, which is no af MR card. Its probably one of the best MR card in amex lineup. Its very underated. I think its better than gold and green imo, only thing its not an charge card which isn't that big of an deal to me.

Re: How come Amex charge cards have annual fees?

Anonymous — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 05:05:11 GMT

@jsucool76 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@jsucool76 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@jsucool76 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
High rewards and benefits.
High rewards, not so much. Benefits...eh, except for the platinum.

The plat card is the only one that I think can charge the AF ethically.

The green, gold (which is...entirely useless) and premier rewards gold are all meh cards. Only reason i got a PRG was for the signup bonus, and i dont see a need for it ever again, unless i can get another signup bonus. The earning rates aren't that fantastic, and I really think the ED/EDP have made the green/gold/prg obsolete.

Green - 1pt/$1, 2pt/$1 through amex travel
Gold - Same...but more expensive
PRG 1pt/$1, 2pt/$1 through amex travel, gas,supermarkets, and 3pt/$1 on airfare with the airline.
Plat - 1pt/$1, 2pt/$1 on amex travel, but benefits.

None of the other charge cards really offer benefits that blow me away. I mean, i ordered dominos once and didnt have to pay the delivery fee because of shoprunner, but I get that same benefit with a no AF card from amex....lol
I don't know why I bother sticking up for the charge cards, but I personally benefit more from them. Everyday/EDP has $6000 spending cap on groceries, PRG would allow you to keep spending in the 2x points category. If you are a bigger spender the charge cards are definitely more liberal in the arena of earning rewards points. There is a definite breakeven point for which card is best for each person's situation. If you can ballpark your spending, a little algebra will tell you which card is best.
Yes, but on the EDP with the 3x on supermarkets and then the 50% bonus with 30 transactions, that 6k a year on supermarket spend will net you 27000 points alone. You would need to spend 13.5k on the PRG to get that many points for supermarket spend, and even if you spend that much yearly on supermarkets, why not get the EDP AND the PRG, and then you'd earn 42000 a year on supermarket spend (if you spent 13.5k a year on groceries)

Even with the earning cap, if you're clearing the 30 transactions a month, you're earning 1.5 points on your 1 point categories, 3 points on your 2 point categories, and 4.5 points on your 3 point categories.

So the points you're missing out on with the earning cap are essentially made up for by your other categories, and at a cheaper price.
Right, but the point remains that there are certain types and levels of spending where a particular card could be the best (among Amex anyway) So if you do lots of airfare, the 3x on the PRG will more than make up for the extra 0.5MR on non-category spend on the EDP.

And while there may be a few people on myfico who follow that rule and know whch is best, many people get amex charge cards just because they think it makes them look fancy and rich. There are so many people who dont know the actual benefits and rewards structures of cards. When we're talking myfico'ers we're talking a ridiculously small percentage of people.

My mom works for a company that has a corporate amex card (she's an accountant) and the CFO asked her to call amex and see what they could use their rewards for. (they had some ridiculous amount of points because business spend, I was and still am jealous) She came to me to ask, because the CFO wanted to use them as a statement credit, when meanwhile, they have people flying places all the time. I had to tell them that they could transfer the points to an airline program and then be able to use them for airline tickets for business trips.

I agree with that, except, unfortunately, I can hardly exempt myfico. Lots of people here getting cards without much due diligence (hence the posts once they have the card "What can I do with ....") but hey, people get cards because they are metal, or because they have high CL which they need (in some unspecified way) for utilization etc. And such people make CCC happy..

Re: How come Amex charge cards have annual fees?

core — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 05:19:53 GMT

@mongstradamus wrote:
Correct me if i am wrong but you do get it with ED, which is no af MR card.

Seriously? I guess I should have added in my post that there are 3 levels of roadside assistance and the one provided with the Gold card (I forget what they call it) was the bare minimum that I think would be of any value. The Green card level R/A basically just calls the place for you. Big whoop.

If ED provides free towing for up to 8 miles then I think I'd be all over that for no AF, even though I'd never sign up for AAA and probably never use the benefit (God willing). 8 miles doesn't get you very far out here in the country. I will be cancelling my Gold before my year is up anyway, so I will have to look into the ED benefits.