topic Re: CLD again - US Bank in Credit Cards

CLD again - US Bank

racer-x — Fri, 23 Jan 2015 22:14:47 GMT

If you've followed my other thread, you'll know that I was recently CLD'd on 3 Chase accts and 1 Discover account.

All those accounts have been PIF, about $14k.

I have 21 CC's and (1) US Bank LOC (Line of Credit). 6 accts report balances totaling $24k. I'm getting ready to drop another $8k on the CC's. I will have but 4 out of 21 accts reporting balances for about $16k. . THE LOC account is categorized as another checking/overdraft reserve account, and not a revolving account.

But before I could pay another $8k toward my debt, US Bank put the hammer on my LOC.

I called them. They said that TU sent them a score in Dec in the low 600's. According to Walmart and Discover, I'm at 672.

U.S. said that it was a computer generated action against me.

Anyway, I then called TU. The 'not so fluent in English gentleman' said that I did not have a low 600 score and as far as he could see, I never had a score that low.

I asked him what my current score was, he said he couldn't give it to me. I then told him how i get TU scores from Synchrony Bank and Discover Financial and that I was 672... he then said, "well, you don't need to buy a score then." He was obviously telling me that YES, your score is a 672.

SO I call US Bank again. The lady said sorry, but that's what TU sent us. SO I call TU again. The 'more fluent in English lady than the gentleman before' said that TU does NOT send scores to any bank or lender. They send the persons information and because of all the different scoring models being used, the bank/lender takes the info given and compute their own score. The TU rep said WE DID NOT SEND US BANK YOUR SCORE, ONLY YOUR INFORMATION.

SO I call US Bank again....after telling the 3rd person my situation that took 15 mins, she says, 'oh wrong dept, let me transfer you'. Great, now I'm telling the 4th US Bank rep the situation. They gave me the name/number/fax for their dispute dept. I typed up a letter and faxed it to them.

Point is, here I am dropping over $20 large toward my CC's and now TU or US Bank is screwing up my reports/score.

I could pay the LOC off or down, but then I could see the 'COMPUTER" dropping the hammer again if I pay half the balance since it could still be seing a low 600 score. F that. I'll just leave it at 95% utilization and pay the others down or off.

It was funny when the US rep said, 'we could put you in for a CLI if you like to try and get your CL back'. What an idiot. As if they were going to restore my $15k line of credit with an alleged low 600 score.

I need to stop worrying so much about this. I'm not app'ing for anything for a year when I buy a house. I think I'll have plenty of time to get this crap back in order.

i honestly don't see a problem . Wow, I used some of my available credit and carried a few extra balances in a 3 month period. I didn't realize I was such a risk.

AAoA -2 yrs

$150K available

21% utilization, soon to be 14%

0 derogs on all 3

0 BK's EVER

670's accross the board

$100k income

No new CC's since 04/14

Paid off $13K boat loan end of last year

18 Inq's total past 2 yrs - half falling off in a few months.

7 of 22 accts reporting balances, soon to be 4.

Re: CLD again - US Bank

kdm31091 — Fri, 23 Jan 2015 22:21:07 GMT

I think it's just plain too many accounts. Unless your income is very, very high that's a lot of credit available. I see your income is 100k, but 21 credit cards is just too many. Some people may disagree, and obviously some have way more than that, but IMO, 21 is exceeding the comfort limit of most lenders

I'm not saying this is you, but some people treat credit like a game and it's not. Having 20 open credit accounts is generally NOT a good thing. The more available credit you have, yes, the better your util will be, but there's also a point where the scale tips and you are simply just a risky customer with tons of credit available. You cannot obsess about utilization and ignore everything else. Bottom line is, the more credit available to you, the more you can potentially rack up huge balances, so the more risky you can be percieved as. Lenders will look at that and react with either CLD's like you got or worse, shutting down accounts. I'm not trying to be an alarmist, but this is why no one should be scooping up every bonus offer all the time, and ending up with 20 cards -- eventually, it will catch up with you somehow.

Not trying to be harsh towards you, though. Sounds like you have a good plan on paring down :-)

Re: CLD again - US Bank

Anonymous — Fri, 23 Jan 2015 22:29:34 GMT

Sorry to see this happen. You're right about paying down that LOC. Guaranteed they will balance chase you and then lower the boom again or close it out altogether.. Focus on the rest first

Re: CLD again - US Bank

Anonymous — Fri, 23 Jan 2015 22:38:49 GMT

Starting to see an awful lot of this. And of course US bank is a bit like my grandpa. Really nice, but a bit tight with the change purse.

Re: CLD again - US Bank

kdm31091 — Fri, 23 Jan 2015 22:42:24 GMT

We are seeing CLD's and closures (at least on this forum) a lot more often. I think lenders are getting more vigilant of everyone.

Re: CLD again - US Bank

Anonymous — Fri, 23 Jan 2015 22:42:51 GMT

@kdm31091 wrote:
I think it's just plain too many accounts. Unless your income is very, very high that's a lot of credit available. I see your income is 100k, but 21 credit cards is just too many. Some people may disagree, and obviously some have way more than that, but IMO, 21 is exceeding the comfort limit of most lenders

I'm not saying this is you, but some people treat credit like a game and it's not. Having 20 open credit accounts is generally NOT a good thing. The more available credit you have, yes, the better your util will be, but there's also a point where the scale tips and you are simply just a risky customer with tons of credit available. You cannot obsess about utilization and ignore everything else. Bottom line is, the more credit available to you, the more you can potentially rack up huge balances, so the more risky you can be percieved as. Lenders will look at that and react with either CLD's like you got or worse, shutting down accounts. I'm not trying to be an alarmist, but this is why no one should be scooping up every bonus offer all the time, and ending up with 20 cards -- eventually, it will catch up with you somehow.

Not trying to be harsh towards you, though. Sounds like you have a good plan on paring down :-)

Completely subjective.

Re: CLD again - US Bank

kdm31091 — Fri, 23 Jan 2015 22:44:39 GMT

Well, some of the statements are subjective, however the more credit being available/more chance of racking up balances is NOT subjective, it's an objective measure of risk lenders are going to look at

Re: CLD again - US Bank

CreditCuriosity — Fri, 23 Jan 2015 22:49:38 GMT

I personally think AA was probably due to utilization or DTI ratio... From my understand 100k income, 150k in CC.. 20% approx utilzation that = 30k owed to credit cards or LOC's.. Not horrible, but not great.. I make a bit more then OP, but I would be scared getting up to 30k in CC debt if I didn't have 0% aprs to float that money. That is just me and I could be way off base. Although saying that I need to open up a Care Credit Card soon and have probably close to 10k in dental **bleep** done which is going to probably freak out a few of my lenders, but it is what it is.

Re: CLD again - US Bank

racer-x — Fri, 23 Jan 2015 23:02:27 GMT

The $30k in debt doesn't/didn't worry me. I have several vehicles and motorcycles that I could liquidate...which I'm thinking of doing anyway. I could come up with $30k pretty quick. But of course, creditors don't know what assets I have.

I could also hit my 401k up for a loan, and pay myself back with interest. That's not a bad option at all for a lot of people. But of course, the lenders don't know that either.

Once they all chillax, I will probably close about 8 accts. Chase, Discover, US Bank for starters. Walmart can pound sand too. No benefit to that card whatsoever.

Oh, I almost forgot, another circumstance that I think the lenders are looking at is that when I appllied for US Bank and Discover, income was only $65k...and I'm pretty sure that is still what they have on file. I made $85k in '13, and $97K in '14. I will be steady at $100k as far as I can see..

So they may very well be seeing my income at $65k with $150k in CL's. I could see that as a problem for them.

Re: CLD again - US Bank

CreditCuriosity — Fri, 23 Jan 2015 23:08:09 GMT

@racer-x wrote:
The $30k in debt doesn't/didn't worry me. I have several vehicles and motorcycles that I could liquidate...which I'm thinking of doing anyway. I could come up with $30k pretty quick. But of course, creditors don't know what assets I have.

I could also hit my 401k up for a loan, and pay myself back with interest. That's not a bad option at all for a lot of people. But of course, the lenders don't know that either.

Once they all chillax, I will probably close about 8 accts. Chase, Discover, US Bank for starters. Walmart can pound sand too. No benefit to that card whatsoever.

Oh, I almost forgot, another circumstance that I think the lenders are looking at is that when I appllied for US Bank and Discover, income was only $65k...and I'm pretty sure that is still what they have on file. I made $85k in '13, and $97K in '14. I will be steady at $100k as far as I can see..

So they may very well be seeing my income at $65k with $150k in CL's. I could see that as a problem for them.

Ya you said it right there.. Just saying that is approx 1/3 of your salary in just CC debt there, not sure if you have student loans, mortgages, car loans, etc.. I still think it is DTI ratio personally... Still just a hefty interest payment alone a month assuming 15% apr.. I don't have a CC debt calculator.. DTI is my bet still.. Anyways, I wish you a the best!

Make sure you keep your Creditors up-to-date with you income as someone of this might of been avoided!

Re: CLD again - US Bank

racer-x — Fri, 23 Jan 2015 23:14:00 GMT

CreditCuriosity - DTI is 18%. No mortgage, $350 rent, no student loans. $300 Harley payment, $200 truck payment. That's about it.

Co-sign for deferred Sallie Mae - $4800. Guess that is a student loan. lol.

What do you guys think about calling my 'nice' creditors and make sure they have my updated income? I hate to 'stir the pot' so to speak, but it seems like that would be in my best interest.

Re: CLD again - US Bank

IWOL — Fri, 23 Jan 2015 23:20:00 GMT

@racer-x wrote:
If you've followed my other thread, you'll know that I was recently CLD'd on 3 Chase accts and 1 Discover account.
All those accounts have been PIF, about $14k.

I have 21 CC's and (1) US Bank LOC (Line of Credit). 6 accts report balances totaling $24k. I'm getting ready to drop another $8k on the CC's. I will have but 4 out of 21 accts reporting balances for about $16k. . THE LOC account is categorized as another checking/overdraft reserve account, and not a revolving account.

But before I could pay another $8k toward my debt, US Bank put the hammer on my LOC.

I called them. They said that TU sent them a score in Dec in the low 600's. According to Walmart and Discover, I'm at 672.
U.S. said that it was a computer generated action against me.

Anyway, I then called TU. The 'not so fluent in English gentleman' said that I did not have a low 600 score and as far as he could see, I never had a score that low.
I asked him what my current score was, he said he couldn't give it to me. I then told him how i get TU scores from Synchrony Bank and Discover Financial and that I was 672... he then said, "well, you don't need to buy a score then." He was obviously telling me that YES, your score is a 672.

SO I call US Bank again. The lady said sorry, but that's what TU sent us. SO I call TU again. The 'more fluent in English lady than the gentleman before' said that TU does NOT send scores to any bank or lender. They send the persons information and because of all the different scoring models being used, the bank/lender takes the info given and compute their own score. The TU rep said WE DID NOT SEND US BANK YOUR SCORE, ONLY YOUR INFORMATION.

SO I call US Bank again....after telling the 3rd person my situation that took 15 mins, she says, 'oh wrong dept, let me transfer you'. Great, now I'm telling the 4th US Bank rep the situation. They gave me the name/number/fax for their dispute dept. I typed up a letter and faxed it to them.

Point is, here I am dropping over $20 large toward my CC's and now TU or US Bank is screwing up my reports/score.

I could pay the LOC off or down, but then I could see the 'COMPUTER" dropping the hammer again if I pay half the balance since it could still be seing a low 600 score. F that. I'll just leave it at 95% utilization and pay the others down or off.

It was funny when the US rep said, 'we could put you in for a CLI if you like to try and get your CL back'. What an idiot. As if they were going to restore my $15k line of credit with an alleged low 600 score.

I need to stop worrying so much about this. I'm not app'ing for anything for a year when I buy a house. I think I'll have plenty of time to get this crap back in order.
i honestly don't see a problem . Wow, I used some of my available credit and carried a few extra balances in a 3 month period. I didn't realize I was such a risk.

AAoA -2 yrs
$150K available
21% utilization, soon to be 14%
0 derogs on all 3
0 BK's EVER
670's accross the board
$100k income
No new CC's since 04/14
Paid off $13K boat loan end of last year
18 Inq's total past 2 yrs - half falling off in a few months.
7 of 22 accts reporting balances, soon to be 4.

OP....sorry to hear about the CLD. Your score seems to be a bit low for your profile.

I have a fairly similar profile.......200K available, 3 year AAoA, 22 open CC and 14% reported balances. Since Im not apping for anything I recently halted paying before stament cut all the time so I have 28K in balances reporting and my TU score is at 741. Granted I have fewer inquiries than you, around 4 but 670 score seems too low with no derogs and your util reporting at 21%.

Re: CLD again - US Bank

gdale6 — Fri, 23 Jan 2015 23:25:05 GMT

These are all too big to fail banks with the exception of Discover, diversify away from them. 24K on 150K available is nothing, there is too much micro management going on and its the reason I have 1 account with a too big to fail bank. TU itself doesnt give them your FIco, Fico does as they are the ones that generate the score based on the info in your CRs..

Re: CLD again - US Bank

Anonymous — Fri, 23 Jan 2015 23:25:49 GMT

Wow sorry to hear that
Your total CL is only 150% of your annual income
hopefully CLD stops here
So Chase started it an now USbank
CRAs must have some kind of automated system set in place
that banks get alerted when your CL suddenly decreases
Good luck to you

Re: CLD again - US Bank

Anonymous — Fri, 23 Jan 2015 23:28:50 GMT

Some of them you can update online. I know discover has an update info tab somewhere. I believe BOA does as well. That would be a simple way to go. I agree with not poking the bear. AA has been taken by the one lender that appears to have most of the risk, dont give reasons to the others. And as you said getting rid of a few of the non useful cards doesnt sound like a terrible plan.

I know nixon will disagree, but most of the people here with tons of cards dont fit into the happy little boxes lenders like to put us in. Understanding the system lets you game the system to some greater or lesser degree. I talk to "normal" people about credit unions regularly, and they all assume its some either pyramid scheme or communist plot. Damn near everyone here understands the value of CUs. Damn near everyone here has at least an idea of how to present a positive profile when applying for something.

Some of what we do is not normal behavior. Profitable behavior yes. In our best interests yes.

Ethics aside, normalizing your profile can reduce what appears to be risk to a lender. My guess is the average my fico poster is considerably less risky than their profile dictates, but having 20 cards makes the upside to a lender lower as you are spreading swipe fees etc across the most personally beneficial cards. And for obvious reasons I advocate that. But banks are in business to make money. Having 150k in credit is great. But if a bank is exposed to 30 percent of that with limited returns, is it worth it to them???

I certainly would not have 30k at risk knowing my maximum upside is nickels.

Re: CLD again - US Bank

racer-x — Sat, 24 Jan 2015 00:03:27 GMT

IWOL - In Jan. '12, my EQ was 745. I had a $3500 CC with my CU and a $500 CapOne. App spree began then. My EQ actually dropped 100 pts in that year. AAoA was very low, new accts, etc...But over time and as INQ's had less of an impact, I was back in the 700s.

In June '13 when I bought the Harley, EX was 722. TU has never been higher than about 712.

Point is, my scores were higher at one point. Utilization gradually went up, a few more accounts and INQ's and my upward progress in scores slowed.

Not gardening completely for a year, and picking up an account here and there, kept my score from climbing.

As you can see in my Walmart TU graph, my TU went down the last 3 months last year, but will jump considerably next month once all these PIF accts report completely.

But then again, how is that 95% utilization going to look next month on my US Bank acct?.

Can anybody explain how US Bank told me that TU sent them a score of a low 600? That's just incredible and an obvious mistake on someone's part. I'm confident that US Bank would not have CLD'd me if the 'computer' didn't see such a low score.

[img]http://oi57.tinypic.com/2mmikom.jpg[/img]

Re: CLD again - US Bank

racer-x — Sat, 24 Jan 2015 00:06:07 GMT

BTW, I was at $175k CL but Chase and Discover took $25k last month.

Re: CLD again - US Bank

Anonymous — Sat, 24 Jan 2015 00:06:26 GMT

Kinda sounds like everyone is passing the buck. They got spooked by your available credit going up and as you state, utilization increasing gradually. Reducing their exposure to the chance of the spiral of doom.

US Bank says TU made me. TU says US bank did it themselves. It has to be a US bank decision tho. TU supplies the data, us bank chooses who processes the data. Whether its a fico score they are using, a vantage score or some US bank internal voodoo score.

Re: CLD again - US Bank

Anonymous — Sat, 24 Jan 2015 00:08:37 GMT

@racer-x wrote:
IWOL - In Jan. '12, my EQ was 745. I had a $3500 CC with my CU and a $500 CapOne. App spree began then. My EQ actually dropped 100 pts in that year. AAoA was very low, new accts, etc...But over time and as INQ's had less of an impact, I was back in the 700s.

In June '13 when I bought the Harley, EX was 722. TU has never been higher than about 712.
Point is, my scores were higher at one point. Utilization gradually went up, a few more accounts and INQ's and my upward progress in scores slowed.

Not gardening completely for a year, and picking up an account here and there, kept my score from climbing.

As you can see in my Walmart TU graph, my TU went down the last 3 months last year, but will jump considerably next month once all these PIF accts report completely.
But then again, how is that 95% utilization going to look next month on my US Bank acct?.

Can anybody explain how US Bank told me that TU sent them a score of a low 600? That's just incredible and an obvious mistake on someone's part. I'm confident that US Bank would not have CLD'd me if the 'computer' didn't see such a low score.

[img]http://oi57.tinypic.com/2mmikom.jpg[/img]

Its not good I would do some BT or pay down to 50% before the due date
you have many diffent lenders so you can minimize damage before other lenders follow suit

Re: CLD again - US Bank

gdale6 — Sat, 24 Jan 2015 00:09:01 GMT

@racer-x wrote:
IWOL - In Jan. '12, my EQ was 745. I had a $3500 CC with my CU and a $500 CapOne. App spree began then. My EQ actually dropped 100 pts in that year. AAoA was very low, new accts, etc...But over time and as INQ's had less of an impact, I was back in the 700s.

In June '13 when I bought the Harley, EX was 722. TU has never been higher than about 712.
Point is, my scores were higher at one point. Utilization gradually went up, a few more accounts and INQ's and my upward progress in scores slowed.

Not gardening completely for a year, and picking up an account here and there, kept my score from climbing.

As you can see in my Walmart TU graph, my TU went down the last 3 months last year, but will jump considerably next month once all these PIF accts report completely.
But then again, how is that 95% utilization going to look next month on my US Bank acct?.

Can anybody explain how US Bank told me that TU sent them a score of a low 600? That's just incredible and an obvious mistake on someone's part. I'm confident that US Bank would not have CLD'd me if the 'computer' didn't see such a low score.

[img]http://oi57.tinypic.com/2mmikom.jpg[/img]

Bring that LOC down from 95% to less than 90% and you will gain points you are getting hit for it maxed out. The difference in score could very well be a diff Fico version, could be 04 or a subset of a basic Fico score. WM is generic Fico 08.