topic Re: approval possibilities? in Credit Cards

approval possibilities?

Anonymous — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 04:30:31 GMT

I am considering a few cards, I will probably apply for one or two.

1. Amex Plat (I'm an existing Blue/Clear member)
2. Marriott Rewards
3. Nordstrom Visa
4. Mariott Rewards Visa Platinum
5. NW WorldPerks Visa Platinum
6. Citi HHonors Visa (Have an existing Citi Dividend World MC).

FICOs of TU/734, EQ/744, EX/748. I expect these to go up as I had overlarge balances reporting. I did not know this was suboptimal at the time I first pulled my FICOs.

I have no baddies *fingers crossed* and 1-2 INQs on each report currently.

My only caveat is I have very high HHI (thanks to my parents) but I don't want to subject them to the hassle of an f/r should that come up. For this reason I only report income I can verify personally through tax returns or pay stubs which I have abt 40K of this year. I don't know how much of a difference reported income makes in your approval. But yeah, I'd be very grateful for any help anyone can give me! .

Re: approval possibilities?

Anonymous — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 12:41:29 GMT

I do the same thing. I include my parents' incomes in HHI. Should you get FRed, explain your situation and if they feel that using your parents' incomes would bloat your CL more than the CCC is comfortable with, tell them just to use your income. Or, if you aren't working, tell them you're in school. You'd get a much smaller limit if you told them the latter, but you'd get the card, and with good payment history they'll bump you up over time.

Re: approval possibilities?

Anonymous — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:21:52 GMT

jaybird201 wrote:

I do the same thing. I include my parents' incomes in HHI. Should you get FRed, explain your situation and if they feel that using your parents' incomes would bloat your CL more than the CCC is comfortable with, tell them just to use your income. Or, if you aren't working, tell them you're in school. You'd get a much smaller limit if you told them the latter, but you'd get the card, and with good payment history they'll bump you up over time.

If you are FR'd, Amex gives you no opportunity to "explain your situation." They want what they want when they want it, and won't listen to explanation. Their decision is final, with no recourse or opportunity for explanation available to the cardholder.

Message Edited by cheddar on 08-04-2008 06:21 AM

Re: approval possibilities?

Anonymous — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:21:06 GMT

jaybird201 wrote:

I do the same thing. I include my parents' incomes in HHI.

Bad, bad idea. HHI only includes income of those who can be considered a single economic unit as the cardholder. It does not include the income of people who will not be assisting in paying off the debt, even if they happen to live under the same roof.

Re: approval possibilities?

Anonymous — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 14:00:02 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

If you are FR'd, Amex gives you no opportunity to "explain your situation." They want what they want when they want it, and won't listen to explanation. Their decision is final, with no recourse or opportunity for explanation available to the cardholder.

Message Edited by cheddar on 08-04-2008 06:21 AM

I always regard HHI to be only the incomes of people that would be expected to repay the debt.

Also, I just figured I'd interject that the lady I talked to during my FR was more than happy to listen to me explain.

I applied for my card in February, after receiving a substantial promotion at work, which included a pretty significant pay raise, which is what I put on the form.

They pulled my 2006 taxes, which showed substantially less income. I think it was maybe 50 to 60 percent of what I put on the form. She said she understood, and I didn't get any AA or CLD or anything.

Re: approval possibilities?

Anonymous — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 14:42:27 GMT

my parents would assist in paying off the debt. Would they be responsible for it to as much a degree as their income would indicate? I doubt it. It's still mostly my expenses.

aren't CCC's less willing to approve students altogether for the most prime sounding CC's (which all of the ones I have listed are?)

Re: approval possibilities?

Anonymous — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 16:54:17 GMT

FretlessMayhem wrote:

Also, I just figured I'd interject that the lady I talked to during my FR was more than happy to listen to me explain.

I'm glad that worked out for you. The vast majority of those who are FR'd and post about their experiences get no such opportunity.

Re: approval possibilities?

Creditaddict — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 16:59:31 GMT

I would for sure apply for Nordstrom!!!! they are very good with CLI and great prime +0% interest

Re: approval possibilities?

Anonymous — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 17:16:25 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

Also, I just figured I'd interject that the lady I talked to during my FR was more than happy to listen to me explain.

I'm glad that worked out for you. The vast majority of those who are FR'd and post about their experiences get no such opportunity.

Thanks!

Now that I think about it, I don't recall ever reading a post about someone who got AA after the FR process off the top of my head.

I might have to search.

Re: approval possibilities?

Anonymous — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 19:20:10 GMT

I'm definitely considering Nordstrom - one of the reasons why I'm asking for advice on this based on people's experiences, because although I know ymmv, I don't want to waste a hard inquiry on a card I'm really not qualified for or can't get. I'd rather use an inquiry to get a slightly less prestigious card and have it grow with me with auto-CLIs and usage (although I know all of these are VERY prime) than go for the top, waste an inquiry and get nowhere on recon.

I also checked WGMC and it wasn't particularly helpful in terms of providing more than approvals with scores and incomes, which is good, but this feedback provides subjective advice on what people know about each company from collective experience, which I find very helpful.

Re: approval possibilities?

Creditaddict — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 19:33:53 GMT

I don't think nordstrom is a real hard card to get, worse case you end up with a store card for 3-6 months and then upgrade to visa.

Re: approval possibilities?

CodeMonkey — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 19:40:36 GMT

I would probably take a crack at the Citi HHonors - your scores look really solid and since you already have an existing line of credit with them I'm guessing that would probably work in your favor on a manual review of your account.

I don't know that I'd bother with more than one of the Visas; just a personal quirk though. I tend to carry one from each issuer for backup purposes; in case there's a glitch on the MC network and I get declined, I can use the Visa or the AmEx.

If you really want to deal with paying the annual fee on the AmEx Plat, I'd wait for 3-6 months after opening whatever Visa you pick and give it a shot. It is a great card (my dad's got one and loves it), and the worst that can happen is they say "no thanks!"

Hard inquiries do suck, but they only affect your score for a year, and even then not by a whole lot if you've got a relatively established history already.

Those are my two cents anyhow.

Good luck!

Re: approval possibilities?

Anonymous — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 19:58:33 GMT

CodeMonkey wrote:
I would probably take a crack at the Citi HHonors - your scores look really solid and since you already have an existing line of credit with them I'm guessing that would probably work in your favor on a manual review of your account.

I don't know that I'd bother with more than one of the Visas; just a personal quirk though. I tend to carry one from each issuer for backup purposes; in case there's a glitch on the MC network and I get declined, I can use the Visa or the AmEx.

If you really want to deal with paying the annual fee on the AmEx Plat, I'd wait for 3-6 months after opening whatever Visa you pick and give it a shot. It is a great card (my dad's got one and loves it), and the worst that can happen is they say "no thanks!"

Hard inquiries do suck, but they only affect your score for a year, and even then not by a whole lot if you've got a relatively established history already.

Those are my two cents anyhow.

Good luck!

Codemonkey, I read your other thread, and I'm impressed with your knowledge and progress in this area, so I'm sorry to have to contradict some of your statements here.

Hard inquiries are actually more damaging to those with established histories, since any negative factor typically hits people with long, established histories worse than it hits those who are just establishing their credit. This is one reason that it is usually a good idea to establish several new positive accounts all at once when one is rebuilding one's credit. Take the hit for the multiple inquiries now, while your credit history is still young, so you won't have to in the future when it will hurt more.

Also, when it comes to Visa vs. MC, that distinction is virtually nonexistent. Yes, they are separate companies with separate brands, but it's much, much more important to get cards from banks you want cards from, with the rewards programs and terms you want than it is to worry about having "too many Visas and not enough MCs" and so on. As far as the network being down, typically Visa/MC use the same POS network, so if it's down for one, it's down for both.

To the OP, the Nordstrom card is one of the more difficult store cards to get. They hate, hate, hate inquiries and new accounts. Just FYI.

Message Edited by cheddar on 08-04-2008 12:58 PM

Re: approval possibilities?

Anonymous — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 20:06:16 GMT

everyone, thanks so much for your insights. I probably will only pick one or two Visas. The first one will be the more difficult to get of the two and the second will be easier (so I have a better chance even after a previous hard inquiry).

I am definitely considering the HHonors Visa because I do have a good relationship with Citi (I have been a member for over 3 years). After that I'm considering either the WorldPerks or the Marriott depending on which is easier to get.

Nordstrom is probably out because it's so hard to get. I don't want to throw an inquiry out the window when I don't have a chance.

Re: approval possibilities?

CodeMonkey — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 20:06:43 GMT

cheddar wrote:
Codemonkey, I read your other thread, and I'm impressed with your knowledge and progress in this area, so I'm sorry to have to contradict some of your statements here.

No worries - we're glad to have the benefit of your expertise either way.

cheddar wrote:
Hard inquiries are actually more damaging to those with established histories, since any negative factor typically hits people with long, established histories worse than it hits those who are just establishing their credit.

This is highly counterintuitive to be sure - you would expect that one of the benefits of an established record would be more "wiggle room," so to speak.

Though on the flip side I suppose that as your score improves the standards become more demanding, so it's easier to slip down than it would be in a lower score bracket.

cheddar wrote:
Also, when it comes to Visa vs. MC, that distinction is virtually nonexistent. Yes, they are separate companies with separate brands, but it's much, much more important to get cards from banks you want cards from, with the rewards programs and terms you want than it is to worry about having "too many Visas and not enough MCs" and so on.

Heh, like I said, probably just a personal quirk - a "security blanket," if you will. Had an embarrassing experience awhile back with a very public MC decline, even though the account was in good standing and very low balance; the Visa I was carrying, from the same bank, also in good standing, was approved.

When I called later they said they declined the MC for anti-fraud purposes, so the fact that the Visa worked may have been more due to the fact that it was a different account rather than a different card company; but to this day I try to make sure I have at least one type of card on me whenever possible.

Re: approval possibilities?

CodeMonkey — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 20:09:40 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
everyone, thanks so much for your insights. I probably will only pick one or two Visas. The first one will be the more difficult to get of the two and the second will be easier (so I have a better chance even after a previous hard inquiry).

I am definitely considering the HHonors Visa because I do have a good relationship with Citi (I have been a member for over 3 years). After that I'm considering either the WorldPerks or the Marriott depending on which is easier to get.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes!

Re: approval possibilities?

Anonymous — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 20:13:37 GMT

CodeMonkey wrote:

This is highly counterintuitive to be sure - you would expect that one of the benefits of an established record would be more "wiggle room," so to speak.

Though on the flip side I suppose that as your score improves the standards become more demanding, so it's easier to slip down than it would be in a lower score bracket.

Yes, it is somewhat counterintuitive, but it is well established. It really makes sense when you consider that FICO likes to revert to the mean, in a sense. This is why it only takes a little bit of good behavior for very low scores to recover rather quickly, but the slightest bit of bad behavior from a high achiever can result in a serious smackdown.

The reason for this is exactly as you stated. As your established history gets longer and longer, the standards become more and more demanding. When you are judged against a peer group that virutally never makes mistakes, it's all the more important not to make any mistakes yourself.

Message Edited by cheddar on 08-04-2008 01:13 PM

Re: approval possibilities?

Creditaddict — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 20:15:26 GMT

So true cheddar, I had a friend file chapter 7 but he never let anything go late before filing. His scores never dropped below 690!!

me however, let everything go late before filing and I was in the 400's!

Re: approval possibilities?

Anonymous — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 21:12:29 GMT

It's not so counterintuitive when you think about it a little bit more in depth.

The scoring algorithm seems to try and pull everyone back to the median. Thus, someone with 800 scores is going to be dinged a lot harder an inquiry that someone with 600 scores.

Re: approval possibilities?

Anonymous — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 21:18:03 GMT

yes, this is what I've heard - although my question is aren't you allowed to get all your previous baddies removed when you file for BK? so the only thing that appears on your CR is the bankruptcy?

or do the baddies have long-term lasting effects even if you get them taken off?