topic Re: Is it too late to get into the points game? in Credit Cards

Is it too late to get into the points game?

Anonymous — Wed, 03 Jun 2015 22:09:25 GMT

Hello all,

I recently joined the forums in order to figure out what card might be best for my situation (as seen here: http://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Cards/Looking-for-second-CC-need-help/td-p/4002747) but after a little more research I'm almost back to square one. I went back and looked at my spending for the past year (minus things like rent and car payment) and came up with the following:

Restaurants: ~5k
Groceries: ~4k
Gas: ~1.5k
Entertainment: ~700
Other: ~13k (very broad)

I don't expect Other to be that large this year but you get the idea. Originally I was deciding between the Citi DC and Barclay Arrival+, then added the PenFed Promise as a third card for a low APR card. Well now that I've looked at how my expenses are I've started looking at other options, mainly the Sallie Mae card since I do shop quite a bit at Amazon and I'd max out the Groceries category.

In my other post I mentioned that I don't travel that often (especially flying) but would like to start doing at least a trip or two a year. That being said, some of the other cards I looked at after seeing how I spent last year were:

- Sallie Mae for cash back
- Chase Freedom only to get more points if I get the Sapphire Preferred
- Sapphire Preferred for travel rewards
- Citi ThankYou X for travel/entertainment rewards (X being a tier of the card)
- Citi DC for cash back (from original post)
- Arrival+ for travel rewards (from original post)
- PenFed Promise for low APR (from original post)

After looking up the CSP, redeeming for travel seems to be a pain. Points seem to be worth less across the board and redeeming for travel has black out dates. All that being said, it would be pretty sweet to be able to travel for cheap somewhere a few times a year. To be honest, the only reason why the Freedom is being considered is because of the $200 sign up bonus right now, but the rotating categories seem painful to remember and I'd only really use that card if I paired it with the CSP.

So my question to you - is it too late to get into the points game or should I stick with cash back? Is it really worth all the hassle with the devaluation and black outs? Which card(s) do you think would fit my situation? Ideally I'd like to have a high limit / low APR card and a rewards card (that could be split into two cards between cash and miles. I'd like to only pay one annual fee as well).

Quick and dirty from original thread:
- 3 total accounts: 1 CC, 1 auto, 1 closed student loan
- Utilization: 14% (This is after the hard pull CLI)
- Average account age: 5 years
- Oldest account age: Almost 7 years
- Hard pulls: 2 from a year ago on EQ (Update: 1 added from TU last month for a CLI)
- No negative marks
- 40k auto loan in good standing
- CreditKarma score: 748 EQ, 749 TU

Re: Is it too late to get into the points game?

mongstradamus — Wed, 03 Jun 2015 22:32:24 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Hello all,

I recently joined the forums in order to figure out what card might be best for my situation (as seen here: http://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Cards/Looking-for-second-CC-need-help/td-p/4002747) but after a little more research I'm almost back to square one. I went back and looked at my spending for the past year (minus things like rent and car payment) and came up with the following:

Restaurants: ~5k
Groceries: ~4k
Gas: ~1.5k
Entertainment: ~700
Other: ~13k (very broad)

I don't expect Other to be that large this year but you get the idea. Originally I was deciding between the Citi DC and Barclay Arrival+, then added the PenFed Promise as a third card for a low APR card. Well now that I've looked at how my expenses are I've started looking at other options, mainly the Sallie Mae card since I do shop quite a bit at Amazon and I'd max out the Groceries category.

In my other post I mentioned that I don't travel that often (especially flying) but would like to start doing at least a trip or two a year. That being said, some of the other cards I looked at after seeing how I spent last year were:

- Sallie Mae for cash back
- Chase Freedom only to get more points if I get the Sapphire Preferred
- Sapphire Preferred for travel rewards
- Citi ThankYou X for travel/entertainment rewards (X being a tier of the card)
- Citi DC for cash back (from original post)
- Arrival+ for travel rewards (from original post)
- PenFed Promise for low APR (from original post)

After looking up the CSP, redeeming for travel seems to be a pain. Points seem to be worth less across the board and redeeming for travel has black out dates. All that being said, it would be pretty sweet to be able to travel for cheap somewhere a few times a year. To be honest, the only reason why the Freedom is being considered is because of the $200 sign up bonus right now, but the rotating categories seem painful to remember and I'd only really use that card if I paired it with the CSP.

So my question to you - is it too late to get into the points game or should I stick with cash back? Is it really worth all the hassle with the devaluation and black outs? Which card(s) do you think would fit my situation? Ideally I'd like to have a high limit / low APR card and a rewards card (that could be split into two cards between cash and miles. I'd like to only pay one annual fee as well).

Quick and dirty from original thread:
- 3 total accounts: 1 CC, 1 auto, 1 closed student loan
- Utilization: 14% (This is after the hard pull CLI)
- Average account age: 5 years
- Oldest account age: Almost 7 years
- Hard pulls: 2 from a year ago on EQ (Update: 1 added from TU last month for a CLI)
- No negative marks
- 40k auto loan in good standing
- CreditKarma score: 748 EQ, 749 TU

CSP you should be looking at travel partners to transfer to not going thru UR travel portal you will find much better value there. If you are going all out for travel cards. I would look at the PRG and maybe citi premier for entertainment. But you could probably skip that since your entertainment spending is fairly low. I prefer MR to TYP since there are no domestic carriers with TYP that i know of.

As far as it being too late to get into the game , you just have to be patient when it comes to looking for availablity. You have to look ahead almost an year and be flexible with when you can travel if you want to get the most value. Also the value of points is very subjective.

Re: Is it too late to get into the points game?

JHex2 — Wed, 03 Jun 2015 22:38:37 GMT

Welcome to the forums. You sound like me circa a couple years ago.

I know travel cards sound enticing, and are really cool looking, but the AF might cancel out any rewards you really get. How much would you really travel you think?

My brother and I have the same amount of spend, but I dont travel half as much. When he got his first job, he got a CSP and never looked back. I got a good mix of CB cards instead.

Travel cards to me are most effective when you concentrate spend on them. If you get a mix of cards, it's harder to justify the AF on any one card, when there's generally CB options that are comparable.

TLDR; Assume your travel habits wont increase just because of a card. Get a Sallie Mae and a Double Cash if dont travel enough, and live a stress free CB life. If you do travel a lot go CSP + Freedom and reap the benefits. I also recommend PIF so you arent cancelling out rewards.

Re: Is it too late to get into the points game?

CreditDunce — Wed, 03 Jun 2015 23:48:21 GMT

With less than 25k to spend per year, I would stick with the SM, DC and maybe Penfed Promise. Cash back spends everywhere.

If you want to play the points game, you will probably need to wait until you are ready to travel. Get a travel card with a large sign up bonus. Make the spend (may need to stop spending on your other cards). Learn how the frequent flyer program, hotel program, etc works. Do the trip (or trips). Then cancel the card before the AF hits. Repeat for your next trip.

Churning cards will hurt your credit score. Churners really want a large base of established/aged accounts to help maintain their credit score. Also, at some point I have to think CCC's will be able to figure out who the churners are and take action. Not that CCC's seem to care that much if people churn their cards.

If you just want to experiment with travel cards, I would do the cash back cards now. In addition to the above cards, I would add the Freedom to start building up UR points and to build a relationship with Chase. At any time you can redeem the UR points at 1c per point. In two years, find a travel card (airline, CSP, etc) with a good bonus. Maybe even add a hotel card where the free night pays the AF each year. Try it out and see how it works for you. The booking restrictions, etc is not for everyone (full disclosure, it is not for me). If it works for you, then you can repeat the process in a year. You may even find you don't mind paying the AF for the hotel card each year due to free stays, etc. But there is no need to get the cards before you are going to use them.

Re: Is it too late to get into the points game?

Anonymous — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 00:51:42 GMT

There's nothing wrong with sticking with cash-back cards, as cash truly is king. I have a boatload of AAdvantage miles personally, but it usually turns out that when the time comes to book, I either find a great cash deal or there's no availability for where I want to go. I've gotten much more tangible benefit from accruing cash-back which can be used anywhere, than I've gotten from any travel card (and I have or previously had a few).

I do think travel cards are good if you have a specific brand you use often (for example, an airline card with free bags or a mileage partner you transfer UR points to) or if they include anniversary bonuses such as free nights or miles. For example, my Aviator gives me 10K miles a year which is worth it to me (sorry, no new applicants for this card), but on the other hand I used to have a Chase Marriott and the free nightly Cat 1-5 certificate wasn't worth it for me because the hotel choices ended up being so limited.

Just my $0.02 :-)

Re: Is it too late to get into the points game?

Anonymous — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 00:53:55 GMT

its never too late!

Re: Is it too late to get into the points game?

mongstradamus — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 00:55:16 GMT

my opinion is you really have to look ahead an know if there is some place in particular you want to go, and then you can work with ccc signup bonuses to achieve that goal. I just recently cashed in some of my aa points i got from US airways and citi aa card. Got me nice flight for me and my mom from BKK-JFK on cathay business.

You just need to be really flexible and look ahead. If thats not your thing then there are some great cash back cards out there. Citi DC, SM, etc.

Re: Is it too late to get into the points game?

red259 — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 00:56:52 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
There's nothing wrong with sticking with cash-back cards, as cash truly is king. I have a boatload of AAdvantage miles personally, but it usually turns out that when the time comes to book, I either find a great cash deal or there's no availability for where I want to go. I've gotten much more tangible benefit from accruing cash-back which can be used anywhere, than I've gotten from any travel card (and I have or previously had a few).

I do think travel cards are good if you have a specific brand you use often (for example, an airline card with free bags or a mileage partner you transfer UR points to) or if they include anniversary bonuses such as free nights or miles. For example, my Aviator gives me 10K miles a year which is worth it to me (sorry, no new applicants for this card), but on the other hand I used to have a Chase Marriott and the free nightly Cat 1-5 certificate wasn't worth it for me because the hotel choices ended up being so limited.

Just my $0.02 :-)

I'm going through this now with all my miles. I like miles but you use them for premium travel because I agree for economy flights you are better off with cash back for flexibility. Also, if you want to redeem miles you need to be flexible on travel dates which is difficult for some people. Plus miles are subject to devaluations. Cashback value won't change as much.

Re: Is it too late to get into the points game?

red259 — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 00:59:07 GMT

@mongstradamus wrote:
my opinion is you really have to look ahead an know if there is some place in particular you want to go, and then you can work with ccc signup bonuses to achieve that goal. I just recently cashed in some of my aa points i got from US airways and citi aa card. Got me nice flight for me and my mom from BKK-JFK on cathay business.

You just need to be really flexible and look ahead. If thats not your thing then there are some great cash back cards out there. Citi DC, SM, etc.

Maybe if you look way ahead. I have found with the way CX releases award space you need to be on the lookout very near the travel date and its hit or miss. Becomes harder the more people you want to book for. One person may be able to get an award, but if your booking for three it becomes much tougher to keep everytone together. Business is easier to pull than First though.

Re: Is it too late to get into the points game?

mongstradamus — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 01:02:48 GMT

@red259 wrote:
@mongstradamus wrote:
my opinion is you really have to look ahead an know if there is some place in particular you want to go, and then you can work with ccc signup bonuses to achieve that goal. I just recently cashed in some of my aa points i got from US airways and citi aa card. Got me nice flight for me and my mom from BKK-JFK on cathay business.

You just need to be really flexible and look ahead. If thats not your thing then there are some great cash back cards out there. Citi DC, SM, etc.
Maybe if you look way ahead. I have found with the way CX releases award space you need to be on the lookout very near the travel date and its hit or miss. Becomes harder the more people you want to book for. One person may be able to get an award, but if your booking for three it becomes much tougher to keep everytone together. Business is easier to pull than First though.

yeah original plan was for next spring but found some availability in october so i pulled the trigger. CX is planning on cutting down availablity for first in general to OW partners and Alaska Air from what i hear. I think i will be able to slum it in business though :-)

Re: Is it too late to get into the points game?

red259 — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 01:10:13 GMT

@mongstradamus wrote:
@red259 wrote:
@mongstradamus wrote:
my opinion is you really have to look ahead an know if there is some place in particular you want to go, and then you can work with ccc signup bonuses to achieve that goal. I just recently cashed in some of my aa points i got from US airways and citi aa card. Got me nice flight for me and my mom from BKK-JFK on cathay business.

You just need to be really flexible and look ahead. If thats not your thing then there are some great cash back cards out there. Citi DC, SM, etc.
Maybe if you look way ahead. I have found with the way CX releases award space you need to be on the lookout very near the travel date and its hit or miss. Becomes harder the more people you want to book for. One person may be able to get an award, but if your booking for three it becomes much tougher to keep everytone together. Business is easier to pull than First though.
yeah original plan was for next spring but found some availability in october so i pulled the trigger. CX is planning on cutting down availablity for first in general to OW partners and Alaska Air from what i hear. I think i will be able to slum it in business though :-)

Do you know when CX is making this change? I may have to go to China this month then if I can avoid the changes since I have enough AA miles for RT in first.

Re: Is it too late to get into the points game?

mongstradamus — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 01:15:15 GMT

@red259 wrote:
@mongstradamus wrote:
@red259 wrote:
@mongstradamus wrote:
my opinion is you really have to look ahead an know if there is some place in particular you want to go, and then you can work with ccc signup bonuses to achieve that goal. I just recently cashed in some of my aa points i got from US airways and citi aa card. Got me nice flight for me and my mom from BKK-JFK on cathay business.

You just need to be really flexible and look ahead. If thats not your thing then there are some great cash back cards out there. Citi DC, SM, etc.
Maybe if you look way ahead. I have found with the way CX releases award space you need to be on the lookout very near the travel date and its hit or miss. Becomes harder the more people you want to book for. One person may be able to get an award, but if your booking for three it becomes much tougher to keep everytone together. Business is easier to pull than First though.
yeah original plan was for next spring but found some availability in october so i pulled the trigger. CX is planning on cutting down availablity for first in general to OW partners and Alaska Air from what i hear. I think i will be able to slum it in business though :-)

Do you know when CX is making this change? I may have to go to China this month then if I can avoid the changes since I have enough AA miles for RT in first.

not 100% sure when or if it has already. I noticed even 330 days out the amount of first class availability isn't as much as it was before. Used to be pretty easy to find 5 seats in first from JFK-HKG now not so much. I am contemplating using my aviator card as my card for non category spending to see if i can upgrade last second to first if there is availability, but wondering if its worth it or not.

Re: Is it too late to get into the points game?

Anonymous — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 02:11:42 GMT

I was sort of in your boat a few months ago. Went a couple of years without traveling and now that we have the time and extra money, we are planning a few trips. I looked at some of the hotels, took into consideration what airlineswe flew (when we did travel), and researched cards and went from there. Prior to this, I was strictly all cashback. Between hubby and I, we picked up quite a few travel cards. Some will be staying, some will be going. But before I did anything, I had all my trips planned out and went from there.

Re: Is it too late to get into the points game?

Anonymous — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 02:49:46 GMT

I love my CSP and freedom combo.

The signup for the CSP is great.

I just put my $1400 cruise on the CSP and got 2x the points. Also when the freedom gets out of the restaurant 5% category. The CSP will be my main dining card as I gets 2x points as well.

Plus the CSP also gets you one free movie ticket per month until August I think via visa signature and fandango which is great as well.thats like $60

chase has has been the best cc company I've worked with. I'm NOT a big spender at all but love the combo. Now idk about keeping the CSP after the annual fee. Maybe if I go on another cruise or travel next year

Re: Is it too late to get into the points game?

happypill — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 06:37:03 GMT

@mongstradamus wrote:
@red259 wrote:
@mongstradamus wrote:
@red259 wrote:
@mongstradamus wrote:
my opinion is you really have to look ahead an know if there is some place in particular you want to go, and then you can work with ccc signup bonuses to achieve that goal. I just recently cashed in some of my aa points i got from US airways and citi aa card. Got me nice flight for me and my mom from BKK-JFK on cathay business.

You just need to be really flexible and look ahead. If thats not your thing then there are some great cash back cards out there. Citi DC, SM, etc.
Maybe if you look way ahead. I have found with the way CX releases award space you need to be on the lookout very near the travel date and its hit or miss. Becomes harder the more people you want to book for. One person may be able to get an award, but if your booking for three it becomes much tougher to keep everytone together. Business is easier to pull than First though.
yeah original plan was for next spring but found some availability in october so i pulled the trigger. CX is planning on cutting down availablity for first in general to OW partners and Alaska Air from what i hear. I think i will be able to slum it in business though :-)

Do you know when CX is making this change? I may have to go to China this month then if I can avoid the changes since I have enough AA miles for RT in first.
not 100% sure when or if it has already. I noticed even 330 days out the amount of first class availability isn't as much as it was before. Used to be pretty easy to find 5 seats in first from JFK-HKG now not so much. I am contemplating using my aviator card as my card for non category spending to see if i can upgrade last second to first if there is availability, but wondering if its worth it or not.

330 days! I'm lucky if I can book 30 days in advance. That's why I've had 125K AA points sitting in my account for years. I try to use them every time I book a vacation, but I've never been able to get good value from the points and always find something better through one of the discount sites or through a direct promotion. Cash back works best for me. Points work better for people that can plan way in advance, may like a family with children where you know exactly when the kids are out of school and plan around that.

Re: Is it too late to get into the points game?

Anonymous — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 06:47:06 GMT

everyone's replies were so long so i was too lazy to read them but if you don't care about traveling (overall) stick with cash back. i like to drive instead of fly. maybe look at a hotel card to get hotel stays but not plane tickets.

Re: Is it too late to get into the points game?

Anonymous — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 13:32:10 GMT

Amex PRG (50,000 MR point sign-up)

Amex EDP (15,000 MR point sign-up)

Category bonuses on both and 50% more points per month with EDP.

And I just got the Delta Amex (50,000 miles) - plus you have the option of paying with miles+cash to pay for tickets at Delta if you have the Amex.

My home airport is THE Delta hub, though, so the Delta Amex made sense for me.

I also have Discover it and CapOne QuicksilverOne (will PC to regular QS) for cashback I'm saving up for hotel spend for our next big trip.

Re: Is it too late to get into the points game?

Anonymous — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 22:57:25 GMT

So it sounds like I'll get more bang for my buck with cash back cards for now...until I know of a place to travel. The only reason why I'm kind of itching for a card right now is because of the sign up bonus for the Freedom, but it sounds like that happens pretty regularly in November, so I might wait to pull the trigger then. I was actually thinking of getting a new card in Oct before the holiday season but maybe I should just wait until November and double/triple app.