topic Re: BCE - not super useful? in Credit Cards

BCE - not super useful?

kdm31091 — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 15:11:31 GMT

Ok, so I barely use my BCE. I have the BJ's Mastercard for 5% there and that's where the bulk of my grocery purchases are. I also use Target for groceries a decent amount and I have the debit redcard.

The BCE just seems...I don't know. Unimpressive. I use it for the occasional runs to the grocery store when BJ's/Target is too much of a hassle, and the 3% is nice, but it doesn't add up fast with my spend (also not a fan of how long Amex rewards take to post, and the redemption is a pain because I'm sitting on 20.91 in rewards that I can do absolutely nothing with). I considered a BCP, but then I'd just be forcing myself to spend more to make up the fee which is stupid.

I looked at Amex's other revolvers and there doesn't even seem to be a decent PC option other than BCP which I'd have a hard time justifying. I don't want to close the card as, stupid as it is, I just always wanted it and when I got approved I was so excited. Nevertheless, it's weak for me, as evidenced by the fact that it's barely getting any use!

I wonder how much spend it really takes to justify a BCP....nerdwallet claims if you spend $25 a week it makes sense but by my calculations, if you spent $25 on groceries a week, ignoring other spend you'd get $78 at the end of the year on BCP. Take away the fee and that's 3 bucks. So obviously a BCE would make more sense. I buy gas roughly 2-3 times a month, as my commute is very short, so gas is neglible for me reward wise.

I don't want to force myself to spend more to make a BCP work. But there's just nothing useful to PC this card into and it just isn't doing anything for me other than providing me a nice limit. Am I being stupid about wanting to keep it just to keep it? I know I always advise people not to do that but taking my own advice is proving difficult haha. Is there any decent PC option that I'm not thinking of? Or should I just leave it alone? It's really my only "grocery" card but as mentioned the actual spend at real grocery stores is not huge. If I got a BCP I suppose I could try to use grocery store more than Target but I dunno.

Re: BCE - not super useful?

jamesdwi — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 15:17:14 GMT

depending on your other spend there are ways to make the BCP useful even if you don't spend alot of groceries. Check out the gift card section in the grocery store, If you eat out a lot its easy to pick up gift cards for your favorite resturants and get 6% back. Amazon, Home Depot, Sears and others are availible as well. Since your capped at 6k spend for the 6% AMEX doesn't really care. 3% on Gas at the pump pays off as well, $100/mo in groceries pays the annual fee. Anything over and above that is proffit. Note most stores will not let you purchase AMEX. MC, Visa pre-paid cards with a credit card YMMV. Just stick to the regular gift cards and you will be fine.

Re: BCE - not super useful?

yfan — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 15:18:26 GMT

I got the BCE as sort of a replacement for my Costco TE card (although I also still have the TE until it gets taken over by Citi and converted). Amex gave me a $100 bonus offer for spending $500. While I do tend to do a lot of shopping at Costco, I also shop sales at other grocery stores, and buy only on-sale items, which ensures that I don't spend more than I would have at Costco, and get better rewards.

But here is what makes the BCE really worth it for me: Amex offers. I get a lot more, and a lot more useful, offers on the BCE than my TE. I have found that keeping an eye on the offers saves me a lot of money, and I'm pretty happy with that.

Re: BCE - not super useful?

Anonymous — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 15:21:10 GMT

I thought the BCE and BCP wouldn't work for groceries at Target because they consider that a discount store and not a grocery store. It wouldn't even get the 3% for dept stores because of the discount store designation. I got the BCP because I tend to spend a lot at Wegman's, especially their prepared foods, like sushi. It's not quite fancy sushi restaurant quality, but it's better than shoprite or other grocery store quality sushi. And the 3% on gas I would only use when Discover IT and Chase Freedom dont have it as a 5% quarterly category.

Re: BCE - not super useful?

axlm — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 15:26:27 GMT

We are in the same boat, SallieMae made DW's BCE completely irrelevant, except for the very rare occasions we go over $250 for monthly groceries. Even our cashback is very similar to yours: $20.61!!

I guess we keep it for two reasons:

- it never hurts to have an Amex sitting there since it's a no AF card

- maybe in the future they will launch something better we could PC to

Re: BCE - not super useful?

jamesdwi — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 15:26:29 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I thought the BCE and BCP wouldn't work for groceries at Target because they consider that a discount store and not a grocery store. It wouldn't even get the 3% for dept stores because of the discount store designation. I got the BCP because I tend to spend a lot at Wegman's, especially their prepared foods, like sushi. It's not quite fancy sushi restaurant quality, but it's better than shoprite or other grocery store quality sushi. And the 3% on gas I would only use when Discover IT and Chase Freedom dont have it as a 5% quarterly category.

Yes most of the time they don't include target, but I find target grocery department isn't a good value anyway. Stick to your regular grocery stores. I have found that some Walmarts are coded as grocery store at least under Master Card (big win for my Sallie Mae card), especially the new Walmart Neighborhood Market type stores, and one of the local regular walmarts is coded that way

Re: BCE - not super useful?

Anonymous — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 15:34:39 GMT

@yfan wrote:
But here is what makes the BCE really worth it for me: Amex offers. I get a lot more, and a lot more useful, offers on the BCE than my TE. I have found that keeping an eye on the offers saves me a lot of money, and I'm pretty happy with that.

Yep, they're worth checking every now and then.

Re: BCE - not super useful?

Anonymous — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 15:59:38 GMT

Having a $15,000 limit is outstanding and many people would die for that. It helps your utilization and should an emergency come up, that extra access to money can be a lifesaver.

I would just use it on miscellaneous purchases and keep it open.

Re: BCE - not super useful?

CreditCuriosity — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 16:09:53 GMT

Amex BCE is probably the best NO AF Amex card there is for at least you, since you don't travel thus MR is pointless for you.. I know your thought pattern and you don't like to have cards just to have them unless they are useful to you, which is great.. I personally would keep this card open if I were you though as Amex is a good lender to have on your side as they stick with you through hairy situations if you have treated them right vs lenders like chase will just cancel your cards without notice ( I know you aren't with chase, although US Bank is known to do CLD's very commonly as well).. You never know what the future holds for you and a 15k CL w/no AF is a good CL to have if an emergency ever does come up. Use it if it makes sense, but don't really see a reason to cancel it personally since it costs you nothing and offers you a nice buffer/emergency fund if needed.

Re: BCE - not super useful?

kdm31091 — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 16:16:16 GMT

Yeah, I probably won't close it. It just bugs me to have cards that don't do me much good. But it's a nice limit if something did come up.

I'm not interested in the gift card thing - I would just be spending more than I otherwise would to justify the fee which makes no sense. I mean sure if I had a store that I knew I was gonna make a purchase at soon, buying the GC for that store would make sense, but I would never do the Visa GC thing.

And there are reports that Amex can see the GCs on transactions and has denied people the 6% before -- so it's not foolproof, as the intent is 6% on grocery purchases, not gift cards.

Re: BCE - not super useful?

Anonymous — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 16:15:46 GMT

@jamesdwi wrote:
$100/mo in groceries pays the annual fee. Anything over and above that is proffit.

I have to always rail against this type of analysis (a weakness of mine I do nothing to address). Once again, consider the LongTimeLurker Premium Card.

A low low low $1 AF, and 0.1% back on EVERY purchase, no restrictions, no caps!, no registering for annoying rotating categories So just $1000 spend (less than $90 per month!!!) pays back the annual fee, and anything above that is profit!

So, good card? No, of course not, because there ware better ones. Even between BCE and BCP, the BCP doesn't out-earn the BCE until $2,500 of grocery spend per year (where each earns $75 after BCP AF). If you consider the Sallie Mae, BCP isn't better till $4K or so.

Bottom line: never just consider recouping the AF as the goal, review alternaitve cards and whether they would return more on your spend.

Re: BCE - not super useful?

kdm31091 — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 16:17:50 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@jamesdwi wrote:
$100/mo in groceries pays the annual fee. Anything over and above that is proffit.

I have to always rail against this type of analysis (a weakness of mine I do nothing to address). Once again, consider the LongTimeLurker Premium Card.

A low low low $1 AF, and 0.1% back on EVERY purchase, no restrictions, no caps!, no registering for annoying rotating categories So just $1000 spend (less than $90 per month!!!) pays back the annual fee, and anything above that is profit!

So, good card? No, of course not, because there ware better ones. Even between BCE and BCP, the BCP doesn't out-earn the BCE until $2,500 of grocery spend per year (where each earns $75 after BCP AF). If you consider the Sallie Mae, BCP isn't better till $4K or so.

Bottom line: never just consider recouping the AF as the goal, review alternaitve cards and whether they would return more on your spend.

Agreed with LTL.

The problem with "100 a month pays the annual fee" is that yes it does pay the fee but you are not netting more than the BCE.

For it to make sense, you would have to earn the annual fee back plus more over and above what the BCE would earn on the spend. Just recouping the fee still leaves you with a net zero rewards, which makes no sense. Nerdwallet did the same funny math, which I quickly called out in the comments because it was flawed.

Re: BCE - not super useful?

Sharingan — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 16:31:38 GMT

I received my BCE during college, and I used it quite a bit during those days. Once I got my Sallie Mae and AmEx EDP, I had every intention of closing my BCE, and I even transferred almost all of its CL away. I eventually decided to keep it because it's still a great card and it is one of my oldest accounts. Additionally, I fully expect the Sallie Mae card to get whacked with the nerf bat in the near future, particularly if Barclays found reasons to 'adjust' the Arrival/Arrival+ (which weren't all that great to begin with). Lastly, I like having access to the BCP without a HP, in the event that my spending patterns or rewards objectives warrant it in the future.

The AmEx offers are pretty good as well. I get some incredible deals every so often from them.

Re: BCE - not super useful?

kdm31091 — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 16:33:56 GMT

@Sharingan wrote:
I received my BCE during college, and I used it quite a bit during those days. Once I got my Sallie Mae and AmEx EDP, I had every intention of closing my BCE, and I even transferred almost all of its CL away. I eventually decided to keep it because it's still a great card and it is one of my oldest accounts. Additionally, I fully expect the Sallie Mae card to get whacked with the nerf bat in the near future, particularly if Barclays found reasons to 'adjust' the Arrival/Arrival+ (which weren't all that great to begin with). Lastly, I like having access to the BCP without a HP, in the event that my spending patterns or rewards objectives warrant it in the future.

The AmEx offers are pretty good as well. I get some incredible deals every so often from them.

I suspect Sallie will not last untouched much longer, especially with Arrival's nerf but I guess we will see.

Re: BCE - not super useful?

jamesdwi — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 16:42:04 GMT

yes I did the take the easy way out, and I know that its more than $100 a month spend in groceries, but at least at that level you know you are at least going broke having the card. There are excellent charts availible with exactly how much you need to spend to justify the BCP vs the Sallie Mae, (an excellent card ). That makes it hard to justify the BCP, unless you start to add in other rewards, Small bussiness Saturday can net you $30 a year. Along with other bonuses availible through out the year. The one factor that makes Sallie Mae less useful is that it gives you a set spending limit per month. Some months I may not spend the full $250, yet other months especially during the holiday season I will easily exceed $250 in a single month. The yearly limits of the BCP is much easier to deal with. Of course the other beneits of AMEX are there as well, extended warranties, insurance, 3x CLI's, etc.

Re: BCE - not super useful?

Anonymous — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 17:01:48 GMT

I'm with the other poster that it's not just the grocery incentive, you carry an American Express card number which gets you to qualify for the offers, the Twitter perks that pop up every once in awhile etc. I have co-branded AMEX cards just for that purpose alone. I wish they were all real ones and I wish I qualified for BCE, i should by next year.

Re: BCE - not super useful?

Anonymous — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 17:32:09 GMT

I want the BCE (or BCP) over Sallie Mae simply because of the AMEX perks, and the 3X CLI after 60 days. I'm really only going for 2-3 additional cards besides Freedom, and that's definitely on the list. An yes, Sallie Mae seems like a prime candidate for nerfing in the future. None of Barclays bank cards really scream 'must have' to me to begin with.

Re: BCE - not super useful?

Callandra — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 19:36:37 GMT

Maybe it's me but I wouldn't necessarily worry about a card being nerfed down the line; I decide whether the card works for me today or not. Sallie Mae may or may not be nerfed. I've already gotten so much cash back with it (and I've only had it since last December) that it would have been silly to wait to see if they nerf it. Most people don't know it exists and doesn't get the press the flagship Arrival(+) gets. Even if they nerf it, they may allow existing cardholders to keep the benefits (see: Priceline).

Re: BCE - not super useful?

SunriseEarth — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 19:38:18 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@yfan wrote:
But here is what makes the BCE really worth it for me: Amex offers. I get a lot more, and a lot more useful, offers on the BCE than my TE. I have found that keeping an eye on the offers saves me a lot of money, and I'm pretty happy with that.
Yep, they're worth checking every now and then.

I would definitely agree with Amex Offers being the best thing about BCE. My offers are consistenly better on BCE than on TE or on Twitter (Sync w/Macy's Amex).

I don't have another grocery card, so I use my BCE at groceries. I don't typically buy many groceries, so it's not worth getting a better card at the moment. I also use mine at Costco in-store (rewards are the same at TE and easier to redeem, IMHO) and at department stores for 2% (but not this quarter, thanks to Discover). With the 1998 backdate and having my largest CL, I have no intentions of getting rid of my BCE, even if its use is somewhat limited.

Re: BCE - not super useful?

Imperfectfuture — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 20:07:51 GMT

To add to your first question, I would not upgrade to the BCp, in your situation. Me personally, if not getting the Sallie Mae, then it comes down to math. The rewards would add up faster, but need 2500 annual spend as LTL said (I did my own calculations). Of course, I mainly shop at Safeway. So, total purchase at groceriy store is a little over 200 per month. They also don't count gas unless purchased at pump, which I never do. So that category is wasted.

If my spend reaches that level (and thus making any discover it quarter for groceries a non factor), then upgrade. But I am not at that level, and will apply for Sallie Mae next May.