topic Re: Rental Application Fee - Disputed Charge in Credit Cards

Rental Application Fee - Disputed Charge

pennccrn — Tue, 01 Sep 2015 06:03:38 GMT

Hi guys: I wanted to just get the forum's perspective on this disputed charge I submitted through Discover. I submitted an application for a rental property, charged a $35 fee for this process (fairly customary). When I submitted the application, I received a call from the property management group that this property was no longer on the market, despite my application being accepted and still advertised on their site. I attempted to seek a refund since I wasn't considered for this property and it was already rented to another tenant - however it wasn't honored.

I submitted a charge dispute saying under "failure to deliver on goods and services" and heard today that it wasn't granted in my favor. I know its just $35 but I don't believe I should be responsible for this since my credit was never pulled - just was told it was signed to another tenant. Just more of principal than anything else. The response in the dispute I received just was a copy of my application - didn't really address the acceptance of the application when the property was already leased.

So my question is, should I make an issue out of this - I'm inclined to just let it go. But wasn't sure if anyone else had a perspective ...

Thanks! Nothing personal with this company, its just business.

Re: Rental Application Fee - Disputed Charge

Anonymous — Tue, 01 Sep 2015 06:36:21 GMT

Let it go, your credit wasnt pulled. If you have some spare time maybe make another call or two. But yeah, its quite common in chicago for a person to spend over $50 to apply for a place not to mention be required ot have first months rent, to even apply to be considered, and then have the property go to someone else.....

Re: Rental Application Fee - Disputed Charge

Anonymous — Tue, 01 Sep 2015 12:46:25 GMT

@pennccrn wrote:
Hi guys: I wanted to just get the forum's perspective on this disputed charge I submitted through Discover. I submitted an application for a rental property, charged a $35 fee for this process (fairly customary). When I submitted the application, I received a call from the property management group that this property was no longer on the market, despite my application being accepted and still advertised on their site. I attempted to seek a refund since I wasn't considered for this property and it was already rented to another tenant - however it wasn't honored.

I submitted a charge dispute saying under "failure to deliver on goods and services" and heard today that it wasn't granted in my favor. I know its just $35 but I don't believe I should be responsible for this since my credit was never pulled - just was told it was signed to another tenant. Just more of principal than anything else. The response in the dispute I received just was a copy of my application - didn't really address the acceptance of the application when the property was already leased.

So my question is, should I make an issue out of this - I'm inclined to just let it go. But wasn't sure if anyone else had a perspective ...

Thanks! Nothing personal with this company, its just business.

I am inclined to go the other way, but I have a tendancy to get really annoyed by services that are not delivered. It seems like nobody cares how to do their jobs correctly anymore. It would be common, professional courtesy to offer a refund to you, since you were never considered for the property. Why should they keep $35 of your money when they had advertised a property that was no longer available? I do realize that the property may have been rented so quickly that they had not had time to remove it from the website, but that is where the common sense part comes in. They didn't do anything with your application, they should refund the money.

Re: Rental Application Fee - Disputed Charge

boosnark — Tue, 01 Sep 2015 12:52:19 GMT

What really does matter is what it says in the fine print before you submitted payment. Anything else is irrelevant. One recourse is to file in small claims court, but this is probably not worth the hassle given that the filing fee is about the same amount that you're owed.

Re: Rental Application Fee - Disputed Charge

TiggerDat — Tue, 01 Sep 2015 13:58:45 GMT

I don't think I would let it go. If the property was rented before you applied then I believe that is technically false advertising, just technically. Yes, they could have had the property available when they placed the add, but when they rented it and continued to take applications for it, then it becomes an issue. I am suspicious about things like this happening. I was looking at houses for sale just a few months ago and found one I was interested in looking at. I called the Realtor and asked about it. She asked me some questions about what I was interested in a house. I told her I was really only interested in that house. She said she would contact the owner and set up an appointment. About a week later she called me back with an apology and asked if there were other homes I might be interested in, I said no and that I was only interested in that home. A few more days and texts to her about seeing the property and no response. Finally, she tells me the home was sold. Two months later the home was still available for sale, probably still is. I believe this is a bait house to get clients. I can see your situation possibly being somewhat similar.

I have heard of apartment complexes, usually smaller ones, which advertise apartments to get the rental application fee and nothing else. In this situation, if indeed there are no apartments available, it can be an issue for them legally. Different states have different laws about how real estate transactions must be handled, this includes rentals. It can be tricky because they don't have to pull your credit. When I bought my condo, there was an application fee. There was never a credit pull, but I also did give them a full copy of my credit report, copies of my bank statements, and copies of my investment account, so they only had to check employment and criminal background.

The state I live in governs how rental companies must behave.

If the company had already rented it, they should not have accepted any new applications. If it were pending to another client, then they still should not have taken the fee until they decided not to rent to the other person. My advice is to get them to admit by email that the apartment had already been rented before you applied. This would be the best way to protect yourself in any legal claim you might have. It needs to be clear that it was rented before you submitted the application. If they were still accepting applications and determining who to rent it to, then there would probably be no claim. If they rented it after they received the application, then just because no credit report was done, doesn't mean they didn't do anthing in the process to investigate you, unless it states that a credit report is what the fee is for. If it states the fee is only for the credit report, then you could have a claim and you will probably need to get copies of your credit report. You can simply ask which report was pulled. If they say no report was pulled and the fee is for pulling a report and they admit no report was pulled, then you send that as proof to your credit card company to that effect.

I have fought charges for credit cars in the past. It can be more important in the followup, than in the initial determination. You have to prove that the fee was for a credit pull. I fought charges for a hotel booking I made. The company which processed the prepayment for the hotel responded fighting my claim and I had to respond back. I did. I sent copies of email conversations with my claim and I won.

Re: Rental Application Fee - Disputed Charge

kdm31091 — Tue, 01 Sep 2015 14:01:27 GMT

It's $35 and your credit wasn't pulled. I totally get the frustration, and the desire to fight it, but seriously...I'd pick my battles. This isn't the end of the world. Going to court over it would cost far more than the $35. As far as the actual situation, application fees are almost always nonrefundable whether you get the property or not, so I don't see how you'd even be able to fight it. The fee is basically for them to process the application and can't be refunded.

Just chalk it up to a crappy occurence and move on. That's my perspective. There are better things to expend your time and energy on. To me, this isn't worth fighting (and you have already fought and gotten nowhere).

Re: Rental Application Fee - Disputed Charge

dethkultur — Tue, 01 Sep 2015 14:37:49 GMT

Unfortunately, applying for a lease isn't a guarantee you are going to get it. The property management group collects the paperwork and paystubs, maybe ran a criminal check on you even if they didn't pull your credit. They package it up and hand it to the landlord, who makes the decision. They charge for all of that, whether or not you get accepted.

The landlord can turn you down for a bunch of reasons - maybe someone depends on tips too much, or has seasonal work, or is a student, or had a restraining order against them 20 years ago, many things. The exclusions are under the Fair housing law (religion, marital status, disability, etc, etc) but they can rule you out for anything else. After that of course, maybe the landlord was waiting for a couple of applications and chose the one they liked best, and yours was almost there, but not quite. Nobody owes you an explanation, unlike with credit related things. It's unfair and frustrating, yes.

Some interesting trivia - did you know the fair housing law doesn't apply to private landlords with single family houses? It is meant for multifamily, and for professionals (Realtors, Brokers, professional property managers, etc.) So if you lease and manage your own house, you can say that you don't rent to single moms or whatever. Or a church can lease a house (and only a house) only to its members as long as it doesn't cross a threshold of bseing in that business. Except for race. That is actually covered under a civil war-era law, and there are no exclusions for race discrimination when it comes to housing. The Fair housing law outlawed a bunch of activities that would result in race preference (block busting, refusing to access to the property in the first place, etc) but the actual law that makes race dicrimination in housing a crime was from 100 years earlier.

Re: Rental Application Fee - Disputed Charge

jsucool76 — Tue, 01 Sep 2015 14:44:44 GMT

@dethkultur wrote:
Unfortunately, applying for a lease isn't a guarantee you are going to get it. The property management group collects the paperwork and paystubs, maybe ran a criminal check on you even if they didn't pull your credit. They package it up and hand it to the landlord, who makes the decision. They charge for all of that, whether or not you get accepted.

The landlord can turn you down for a bunch of reasons - maybe someone depends on tips too much, or has seasonal work, or is a student, or had a restraining order against them 20 years ago, many things. The exclusions are under the Fair housing law (religion, marital status, disability, etc, etc) but they can rule you out for anything else. After that of course, maybe the landlord was waiting for a couple of applications and chose the one they liked best, and yours was almost there, but not quite. Nobody owes you an explanation, unlike with credit related things. It's unfair and frustrating, yes.

Some interesting trivia - did you know the fair housing law doesn't apply to private landlords with single family houses? It is meant for multifamily, and for professionals (Realtors, Brokers, professional property managers, etc.) So if you lease and manage your own house, you can say that you don't rent to single moms or whatever. Or a church can lease a house (and only a house) only to its members as long as it doesn't cross a threshold of bseing in that business. Except for race. That is actually covered under a civil war-era law, and there are no exclusions for race discrimination when it comes to housing. The Fair housing law outlawed a bunch of activities that would result in race preference (block busting, refusing to access to the property in the first place, etc) but the actual law that makes race dicrimination in housing a crime was from 100 years earlier.

While I agree with what you're saying here.....it appears the property was already occupied before the OP even applied for it, and the vendor never took down the listing. Meaning OP had NO chance of ever being able to get the property.

I'd annoy the hell out of them until I got my $35 back.

Re: Rental Application Fee - Disputed Charge

pennccrn — Tue, 01 Sep 2015 15:02:07 GMT

Thanks everyone for the perspective. Just to clear up a few things - the issue isn't that I wasn't approved, trust me I'm a landlord myself and I get it you need to charge to vet potentially tenents. My issue is that I was charged an application after the rental wasn't available. I have emails from the property management group that directly tells me that the property is no longed available - the email for both the application receipt and the rejection came at the same time. I can't imagine that they ran a criminal background check and everything else in less than 60 seconds - but who knows with the technology today. Furthermore, the response I received was from the third-party's application site (not from the property management company directly) and it just addresses that I submitted the application - not the issue about charging the application fee after it was rented.

That being said, I am concerned that if I fight this this the company could come after me by turning me over to collections. Since this company has my SSN with the application, this is a very real possibility. I'm still on the fence - but from a financal perspective it doesn't really make sense to take this to small claims. Also, I didn't want any reprercussions from my credit card company either. I have been looking to buy in the area and was thinking of using this realator, but based on this experience I might look somewhere else for representation.

That's interesting about the fair housing law, I rent my house in San Diego while attending grad school up north and traditionally I've only rented to medical students or physician residents - its worked well for me. Hopefully, not breaking any laws.

Thanks everyone for the comments

Re: Rental Application Fee - Disputed Charge

UncleB — Tue, 01 Sep 2015 15:54:25 GMT

One final note about your credit card dispute... just because you lost the first round doesn't mean "all is lost". A while back I purchased gas at a NJ service station, where by law they must pump the fuel for you. The attendant swiped my card at the pump, and filled my tank. He then told me there was a problem with my card and I needed to pay inside. When I went inside the clerk was confused, but he swiped my card again, and gave me my receipt. (I didn't get anything from the outside guy)

When my monthly statement came, you guessed it, the charge for the gas was there twice. I called my bank and started the dispute. A couple of weeks later, my bank sent me a letter telling me the merchant was "disputing my dispute", claiming that the purchase made inside the store was for 'services/merchandise' in addition to the fuel outside (the transactions being for the exact same amount was supposedly coincidental, I guess).

My 'saving grace' was that I still had my receipt... it was clearly printed inside the store, and it clearly stated, "Fuel". I had to snail-mail a copy of this to my bank, and another couple of weeks later I got a second letter saying they had settled it in my favor. It took a month, but it was worth it to me.

The moral of the story is, if you have your documentation in order there's certainly nothing to lose by following up with the credit card company, especially since they didn't take the time to read "the fine print" the first time. Just be ready to write some detailed business-like letters, and possibly wait a bit. The dollar amount is pennies to the credit card company, but it's real money to you and me.

Re: Rental Application Fee - Disputed Charge

Anonymous — Tue, 01 Sep 2015 17:02:02 GMT

I think all of you peeps are missing the point. We all know "Its only $35". With that being said though this is illegal in every sense of the word. They were advertising for potential people to apply for a apartment that WAS NEVER FOR RENT OR EVEN available. If you read his OP you would know this. Not only did they commit borderline fraud they also falsely advertised a good or service.

Its funny how how you say "let it go". If the tables were turned and he committed fraud against a company or misled them on purpose do you think they would just "let it go"? HELL NO. At the very least they would report it on his credit or charge it off if not worse.

I wouldnt let let it go just out of princable. What they did is wrong. At the VERY LEAST I would send there butts a ITS and then follow through if they do not refund. You can sue not ONLY for the $35 but also ALL OF YOUR attorney fees and for your state punitive damages for taking time out of your day to go to courts AND lost work wages. Don't let these major corporations screw you over. We need a credit revolution in this country because the current system ONLY favors the banks and companies.

Just my 2 cents...

Re: Rental Application Fee - Disputed Charge

kdm31091 — Tue, 01 Sep 2015 17:03:45 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I think all of you peeps are missing the point. We all know "Its only $35". With that being said though this is illegal in every sense of the word. They were advertising for potential people to apply for a apartment that WAS NEVER FOR RENT OR EVEN available. If you read his OP you would know this. Not only did they commit borderline fraud they also falsely advertised a good or service.

Its funny how how you say "let it go". If the tables were turned and he committed fraud against a company or misled them on purpose do you think they would just "let it go"? HELL NO. At the very least they would report it on his credit or charge it off if not worse.

I wouldnt let let it go just out of princable. What they did is wrong. At the VERY LEAST I would send there butts a ITS and then follow through if they do not refund. You can sue it ONLYfor the $35 but also ALL OF YOUR attorney fees and for your state punitive damages for taking time out of your day to go to courts AND lost work wages. Don't let these major corporations screw you over. We need a credit revolution in this country because the current system ONLY favors the banks and companies.

Just my 2 cents...

First off, calm down

Second, the OP never said it "was never for rent". It was "no longer for rent". Someone rented it before OP got it.

Again, nearly EVERY rental property charges a non refundable application fee. Whether you get or don't get the place, it's the fee they charge and can't be returned. Nobody besides the company knows if the apartment was available at the moment OP applied. The point is that you are jumping the gun to say this is "fraud". All that happened was someone else got the apartment. Happens every day. Application fees are almost never refundable. It is what it is. You move on and try another place.

Going to court, claiming "lost wages", etc and all that over this, a $35 non-refundable deposit, is almost certainly a waste of time. You aren't going to win because I am sure it is explicitly stated in some such way: "whether you get this property or not, the application fee is non refundable". Since you signed this when placing the deposit, you have no recourse.

Re: Rental Application Fee - Disputed Charge

Anonymous — Tue, 01 Sep 2015 17:07:54 GMT

He said it was never even available to begin with. That's fraud because they were PURPOSELY still listing a property that was not even available. Your not getting it. I understand rental apps are not refundable. But this is a exception. They knew it was not available and they continue to take apps. They got a free $35 because if the property

was never available they would never ran a background check or anything. They just got free money and this is not just morally wrong but not LEGAL...

Re: Rental Application Fee - Disputed Charge

kdm31091 — Tue, 01 Sep 2015 17:10:34 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
He said it was never even available to begin with. That's fraud because they were PURPOSELY still listing a property that was not even available. Your not getting it. I understand rental apps are not refundable. But this is a exception. They knew it was not available and they continue to take apps. They got a free $35 because if the property
was never available they would never ran a background check or anything. They just got free money and this is not just morally wrong but not LEGAL...

Unfortunately, one can't just say "well this is an exception!" and get their money back.

I understand what you are saying but the fact is we are only going by what OP told us (and what they know). Only the rental company truly knows if the place was actually available when OP applied. Sometimes apartments go very quickly. Maybe it went 10 minutes after his application was submitted. That's not fraud, just bad luck. We can speculate all day.

It's up to OP, but I think going to court over this is an exercise in futility and a waste of time. Opinions may vary.

Re: Rental Application Fee - Disputed Charge

Callandra — Tue, 01 Sep 2015 18:11:58 GMT

@boosnark wrote:

What really does matter is what it says in the fine print before you submitted payment. Anything else is irrelevant. One recourse is to file in small claims court, but this is probably not worth the hassle given that the filing fee is about the same amount that you're owed.

This. Was there anything in the fine print regarding this issue?

I do agree it's lousy for them not to refund the $35 to you and I feel they should. However, they most certainly got charged a chargeback fee for your dispute so think of it that way -- they're going to be out at least $20 for the dispute.

Re: Rental Application Fee - Disputed Charge

yfan — Tue, 01 Sep 2015 18:18:27 GMT

@pennccrn wrote:
Hi guys: I wanted to just get the forum's perspective on this disputed charge I submitted through Discover. I submitted an application for a rental property, charged a $35 fee for this process (fairly customary). When I submitted the application, I received a call from the property management group that this property was no longer on the market, despite my application being accepted and still advertised on their site. I attempted to seek a refund since I wasn't considered for this property and it was already rented to another tenant - however it wasn't honored.

I submitted a charge dispute saying under "failure to deliver on goods and services" and heard today that it wasn't granted in my favor.

You have every right to feel shafted, but Discover is also right in what they decided. From their perspective, they only need to verify that you did indeed authorize the charge. If the service in this case is just taking your application, then there is nothing Discover can do. You might, however, have better luck seeking a refund through the property management. Or post a review of their management on Yelp based on your experience and see if they change their tune.

Re: Rental Application Fee - Disputed Charge

Anonymous — Tue, 01 Sep 2015 18:54:30 GMT

I would invest this time towards next credit card signup bonus. Be thankful they didnt give you a hard inquiry and use that to make hundreds of dollars to offset the $35.

There is a great article floating around you may have to search for it. Its called Bed Bugs. And its not about the acutal bug infestation. It is about misleading posts. You are better off to find a real estate agent to get you in an apartment if possible.

http://yochicago.com/apartment-rental-bedbugs-%E2%80%93-yo%E2%80%99s-do-not-call-list/20758/ Theres the bedbug article link

The crappy trend now is move in fees. These are $100-$500 per person and are non refundable! So instead of paying $2050 to move in to your new 1k a month apartment, you will be paying $1350 and not get any of the move in fees back. The legal system and tenants rights have improved drastically and in bigger cities you 99.9999999% get your rent deposits back no matter what. And as someone who has volunteered in a tenants rights organization I am going to throw out some non relevant but useful info.

The problem was the landlords and property management companies were not placing these deposits in secure accounts or paying the tenants any interest accrued. Many were sued. So they went to non refundable move in fees to be safer and remove liability.

Better believe any time I went for an apartment, everything was out on the table, who replaces light bulbs, making sure garage door openers were available, making sure keyless gates were functioning and called cell phone correctly, when furnace filters were replaced last, when bugs are sprayed, and direct number to maintenance man. Again today is much better as there are such things as tenants rights. If you have a roof leak and they wont fix it, you can send a certified letter stating you are arranging to have it fixed and will be deducting it from your rent.

http://www.tenant.net/Other_Areas/Illinois/mto/english2.html

http://www.tenant.net/Other_Areas/Illinois/mto/english2.html#Rent Withholding and Repair and Deduct

Whatever. Make a few more phone calls, call the better business bureau if you want. But I wouldnt waste more than an hour or two on this.

Re: Rental Application Fee - Disputed Charge

taxi818 — Tue, 01 Sep 2015 21:48:35 GMT

@pennccrn wrote:
Hi guys: I wanted to just get the forum's perspective on this disputed charge I submitted through Discover. I submitted an application for a rental property, charged a $35 fee for this process (fairly customary). When I submitted the application, I received a call from the property management group that this property was no longer on the market, despite my application being accepted and still advertised on their site. I attempted to seek a refund since I wasn't considered for this property and it was already rented to another tenant - however it wasn't honored.

I submitted a charge dispute saying under "failure to deliver on goods and services" and heard today that it wasn't granted in my favor. I know its just $35 but I don't believe I should be responsible for this since my credit was never pulled - just was told it was signed to another tenant. Just more of principal than anything else. The response in the dispute I received just was a copy of my application - didn't really address the acceptance of the application when the property was already leased.

So my question is, should I make an issue out of this - I'm inclined to just let it go. But wasn't sure if anyone else had a perspective ...

Thanks! Nothing personal with this company, its just business.

Keep in mind. its and application fee. It is not dependent on you being approved for the apartment. And They are correct. you have no leg to stand on. even if no apartments were available at all. you would have to pay application fee. so if one did come up in the future. you would not have to do anything except accept the apt or not.

Re: Rental Application Fee - Disputed Charge

Wovenyarn — Tue, 01 Sep 2015 23:32:52 GMT

I would take 5 minutes and submit a BBB complaint about the rental company. My experience is that companies that previously ignore you, are quick to respond to your concerns in this manner. It doesn't matter how much it is. It's bad business.

Re: Rental Application Fee - Disputed Charge

dethkultur — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 14:15:02 GMT

@Wovenyarn wrote:
I would take 5 minutes and submit a BBB complaint about the rental company. My experience is that companies that previously ignore you, are quick to respond to your concerns in this manner. It doesn't matter how much it is. It's bad business.

In this case, the BBB would resolve it in the business' favor and no one would ever see the complaint. Trust me on that one. Not because the BBB sucks, but because the company did nothing wrong.

If you want to hurt them, better to complain on Yelp, or maybe Zillow if they let you. Google places. Or hell, name names here in this forum. Social media is where to hurt them if you have a grudge. It's real estate so complain on a map, because all real estate searches start with a google search and include a map search these days. All it would do is make you feel better and turn some people away from them if that's your goal. It's not going to get your money back or help you find an apartment though.