topic Re: Switch to MR from cash back? in Credit Cards

Switch to MR from cash back?

Anonymous — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 13:59:21 GMT

Currently:

Groceries: Primary BCP, Secondary SM

Gas: Primary SM or TE at Costco

Restaurants and General Spend: was A+, recently switched over to DC and sometimes Discover (have double)

Rotating and Specialty: Freedom, Discover, Cash+

Other cards which I'm somewhat committed to: $10k on RC to earn Marriott gold for the next year

DH recently got the Plat with 100k and I'm debating whether to switch over to MR from cash for the most part. My plan would be to pick up EDP and PRG mostly for Groceries, Gas, Restaurants. Those three would probably amount to about 35-40k MRs annually (assuming 1.5 on EDP). But I feel like if I make the switch, I shouldn't divert general spend to cashback cards (except possibly 5%+). I feel like I should put general spend on one of the MR Amex which is sort of 1% but really more. Probably. I think.

I was blissfully ignorant until April when I came here. I was fine with all my spend on Freedom or TY Pref or TE at (mostly) 1%

I COULD take the cash I earn, put it in savings, budget it to travel. I know I could, but so far it hasn't happened. I take a statement credit and it vaporizes or it just sits there. I initially was excited about A+ because most of our travel has been road trips within CA. But now I'm planning some flight-based trips and likely a cruise, so MRs sound like an okay way to go. Initially all flights planned would be in BAs first two bands, so transferring for Avios seems like a good use. Or if it turns out booking through Amex travel for the cruise looks like a good deal for the perks, then we'd use all we have and then some for that.

I don't know what advice I'm looking for here. Maybe I'm posting this as a cautionary tale for others who join the board and app for 5 new cards right off the bat because they're SURE they'll never want to do X (in my case, accumulate travel rewards). Maybe I'm asking if it would make sense to switch for gas, groceries and restaurants, but not general spend? Most likely just looking to kick this around to make sure I've done my due diligence this time. Whatdyathink?

Re: Switch to MR from cash back?

Open123 — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 15:33:53 GMT

Have you taken a closer look at all of the available MR FF partners? Are any of them carriers you and your DH would fly?

If yes, and you are sure you will fly somewhere, then MR points will likely yield more value than cash, assuming you were going to spend "X" on travel, regardless. In your case, since DH was prudent enough to capture the 100K Plat, focussing all of your rewards into MR makes perfect sense. With 300K MR Points, you can likely redeem flights to anywhere you'd care to travel.

As to cashback, in my view, 1.5 MR Points on the EDP is worth more than 2% on Fid Amex. However, nothing is worth more than 5% cashback. So, I'd stick with the 5% cashback, but divert *ALL* other spending to your EDP, so long as you trigger the 50% bonus each month. 30 transactions are easy, if you're having trouble, just log onto comcast/cell phone and pay $1.01 per day. The value here are groceries yielding a whopping 4.5 MR points per dollar, which is approximately an 8% - 9% cash equivalent value, assuming MRs redeemed at around 2 cpp. Focus initially to maximize the $6K. For restaurants, buy GCs if available at your supermarket, or other merchants offering GCs.

In short, if you're certain you will fly on one of the MR Partners, then switching to MR will work out better for you than cashback (except for the 5%) in the long run. Depending on your spend, once you've accrued enough MR points, you can consolidate into some FF Partners, such as SQ, with transfers from UR and TY. Or, SPG points which may be freely tansferred with a 25% mile bonus into just about every FF program in existence.

*Edited* PS - As alwasy, there's opportunity costs to consider, such as forgoing Discover Miles 3% cashback for 12 months of spend that could have been earned. 3% cashback is greater than 1.5% MR, in my view.

PS 2 - Also, depending on your annual expenditures, CRs, and...er..."philosophical tendencies," it would be prudent to consider cycling sign-up bonuses. For instance, nothing will ever earn a higher rate than, say, 40K UR points for spending $4K (well, maybe 10% Discover, but you'd have to buy the phone); or, 60K TY for spending $3,500; or, 50K MR for spending $1,000; or, 30K SPG for $3,000 spend (best deal, in my view). Just focus harvesting rewards in programs that may compliment each other, meaning may transfer into similar FF or Hotel rewards programs. Most importantly, have fun, watch points balloon, travel and live well!

Re: Switch to MR from cash back?

Anonymous — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 15:11:29 GMT

Thanks. Yeah, I think Alaska via British Airways Avios will be good for our next few trips. And beyond that we're in southern california in the middle of about six airports and don't have a loyalty to any specific airline so anywhere else we want to go, we could find some way to use them to get us there.

We'd max the groceries on groceries, which is why we have the current BCP/SM combo.

Re: Switch to MR from cash back?

mongstradamus — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 15:26:45 GMT

I assume you are near LAX if you are in so cal. If you are near LAX i think you probably have access to every airline thats out there. I don't really know where you want to travel , but I think SQ has direct from LAX to Hong kong. Using mr for first class suite wouldn't be too shabby.

For me i am saving up my MR, UR , and TYP for first class suite from JFK to Frankfurt on SQ. I would just make to look at the partners Amex has and remember you can fly on the alliance partners of Amex's FF partners . For example Air canada is an partner of amex, so you can fly on almost any of the star alliance partners.

Re: Switch to MR from cash back?

Open123 — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 15:39:11 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Thanks. Yeah, I think Alaska via British Airways Avios will be good for our next few trips. And beyond that we're in southern california in the middle of about six airports and don't have a loyalty to any specific airline so anywhere else we want to go, we could find some way to use them to get us there.

We'd max the groceries on groceries, which is why we have the current BCP/SM combo.

You've definitely got it right, then!

From what I've read, Avios will be devalued soon. If BA is your partner of choice, it may alter the valuation you may place MR's value. However, in my view, I think your rationale changing from cash to the EDP is a sound one, given your rewards maximization on groceries. This way, you'll have a 3% near cash equivalent general spend in the EDP, whereas the BCP/SM offer you nothing (I consider 1% cashback nothing, since there is never a reason to earn less than 1%) in general spend.

Re: Switch to MR from cash back?

mongstradamus — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 15:46:54 GMT

@Open123 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Thanks. Yeah, I think Alaska via British Airways Avios will be good for our next few trips. And beyond that we're in southern california in the middle of about six airports and don't have a loyalty to any specific airline so anywhere else we want to go, we could find some way to use them to get us there.

We'd max the groceries on groceries, which is why we have the current BCP/SM combo.
You've definitely got it right, then!

From what I've read, Avios will be devalued soon. If BA is your partner of choice, it may alter the valuation you may place MR's value. However, in my view, I think your rationale changing from cash to the EDP is a sound one, given your rewards maximization on groceries. This way, you'll have a 3% near cash equivalent general spend in the EDP, whereas the BCP/SM offer you nothing (I consider 1% cashback nothing, since there is never a reason to earn less than 1%) in general spend.

If you do the switch to edp, i probably would downgrade BCP to BCE that is what i did. And then fall back to SM/BCE combo if you go over the grocery spend limit on EDP.

Re: Switch to MR from cash back?

Anonymous — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 16:07:21 GMT

@Open123 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Thanks. Yeah, I think Alaska via British Airways Avios will be good for our next few trips. And beyond that we're in southern california in the middle of about six airports and don't have a loyalty to any specific airline so anywhere else we want to go, we could find some way to use them to get us there.

We'd max the groceries on groceries, which is why we have the current BCP/SM combo.
You've definitely got it right, then!

From what I've read, Avios will be devalued soon. If BA is your partner of choice, it may alter the valuation you may place MR's value. However, in my view, I think your rationale changing from cash to the EDP is a sound one, given your rewards maximization on groceries. This way, you'll have a 3% near cash equivalent general spend in the EDP, whereas the BCP/SM offer you nothing (I consider 1% cashback nothing, since there is never a reason to earn less than 1%) in general spend.

Yeah, that's one reason I want to make a decision now and see if we want to scoop up some Avios before the deval.

I like your 3% near cash equivalent on general spend thought. Because my general spend isn't currently on BCP/SM. It's on DC/A+/Disco for 2%.

Honestly, I didn't realize that ALL MR were 1.5 if you hit the threshold, I thought it was only the gas/groceries. That' helps a LOT in my decision. This is EXACTLY why I wanted to kick this around with all you knowledgeble folk. Thanks!

Re: Switch to MR from cash back?

Anonymous — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 16:08:20 GMT

@mongstradamus wrote:
@Open123 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Thanks. Yeah, I think Alaska via British Airways Avios will be good for our next few trips. And beyond that we're in southern california in the middle of about six airports and don't have a loyalty to any specific airline so anywhere else we want to go, we could find some way to use them to get us there.

We'd max the groceries on groceries, which is why we have the current BCP/SM combo.
You've definitely got it right, then!

From what I've read, Avios will be devalued soon. If BA is your partner of choice, it may alter the valuation you may place MR's value. However, in my view, I think your rationale changing from cash to the EDP is a sound one, given your rewards maximization on groceries. This way, you'll have a 3% near cash equivalent general spend in the EDP, whereas the BCP/SM offer you nothing (I consider 1% cashback nothing, since there is never a reason to earn less than 1%) in general spend.
If you do the switch to edp, i probably would downgrade BCP to BCE that is what i did. And then fall back to SM/BCE combo if you go over the grocery spend limit on EDP.

I couldn't remember who'd posted about downgrading. Probably was you. Yep, Thanks.

Re: Switch to MR from cash back?

Open123 — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 16:13:10 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Honestly, I didn't realize that ALL MR were 1.5 if you hit the threshold, I thought it was only the gas/groceries. That' helps a LOT in my decision. This is EXACTLY why I wanted to kick this around with all you knowledgeble folk. Thanks!

On the EDP (much better than ED, in my view), once the 50% triggers by the 30 transactions, all points, however they were earned (besides sign up bonuse) increase by 50%.

I'm currently testing to see if this 50% also applies to extra points from Amex offers. I earned 1,000 MR for a Whole Foods promo, and waiting to see if the 50% will apply to that too.

Re: Switch to MR from cash back?

mongstradamus — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 16:18:43 GMT

@Open123 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Honestly, I didn't realize that ALL MR were 1.5 if you hit the threshold, I thought it was only the gas/groceries. That' helps a LOT in my decision. This is EXACTLY why I wanted to kick this around with all you knowledgeble folk. Thanks!
On the EDP (much better than ED, in my view), once the 50% triggers by the 30 transactions, all points, however they were earned (besides sign up bonuse) increase by 50%.

I'm currently testing to see if this 50% also applies to extra points from Amex offers. I earned 1,000 MR for a Whole Foods promo, and waiting to see if the 50% will apply to that too.

Thats interesting theory to test out. I have been contemplating what to do with my EDP. If i am going to use it primarily as just an card for groceries. I think premeir will get gas travel and restuarant duty, if the card ever gets here. Some months i struggle to hit the 30 swipe min for 50% bonus is why i am contemplating just downgradig to the ED. Potentially get SPG for a new everyday spend card or use one of my AA cards for everyday spend. Trying to save up AA points for upgrade to first class on cathay trip next year sometime.

Re: Switch to MR from cash back?

Open123 — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 16:23:59 GMT

@mongstradamus wrote:
Thats interesting theory to test out. I have been contemplating what to do with my EDP. If i am going to use it primarily as just an card for groceries. I think premeir will get gas travel and restuarant duty, if the card ever gets here. Some months i struggle to hit the 30 swipe min for 50% bonus is why i am contemplating just downgradig to the ED. Potentially get SPG for a new everyday spend card or use one of my AA cards for everyday spend. Trying to save up AA points for upgrade to first class on cathay trip next year sometime.

Rough week for card deliveries!

In my view, all things equal, it should be either: (1) EDP standalone; or, (2) ED & PRG.

I don't think it's worthwhile absorbing the fee on both. It's a tough choice, given the PRG's non forex, 2% restaurants, and $100 Airline credit. If you pay for the EDP, then the only purpose for your PRG would be dining and Airfare. Even then, dining at 2% isn't that much greater than 1.5%.

Re: Switch to MR from cash back?

mongstradamus — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 16:31:29 GMT

@Open123 wrote:
@mongstradamus wrote:
Thats interesting theory to test out. I have been contemplating what to do with my EDP. If i am going to use it primarily as just an card for groceries. I think premeir will get gas travel and restuarant duty, if the card ever gets here. Some months i struggle to hit the 30 swipe min for 50% bonus is why i am contemplating just downgradig to the ED. Potentially get SPG for a new everyday spend card or use one of my AA cards for everyday spend. Trying to save up AA points for upgrade to first class on cathay trip next year sometime.
Rough week for card deliveries!

In my view, all things equal, it should be either: (1) EDP standalone; or, (2) ED & PRG.

I don't think it's worthwhile absorbing the fee on both. It's a tough choice, given the PRG's non forex, 2% restaurants, and $100 Airline credit. If you pay for the EDP, then the only purpose for your PRG would be dining and Airfare. Even then, dining at 2% isn't that much greater than 1.5%.

I don't think i travel enough to warrant the huge af of PRG, i know other people situation may be different. The original plan was ED/EDP+ Premier to cover almost all spending. Gas groceries and eating out covers an lot of spend. What do with the non category spending is where i don't know what to do . If i put it on amex then i will keep and put it on EDP, if i put it on another card i will probably just downgrade the EDP to ED.

Also now that my PRG miles have posted i have to see how i want to manage my ~100k MR , if i want to dump them all into SQ for first class suite down the road.

Re: Switch to MR from cash back?

Open123 — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 17:06:52 GMT

@mongstradamus wrote:
@Open123 wrote:
@mongstradamus wrote:
Thats interesting theory to test out. I have been contemplating what to do with my EDP. If i am going to use it primarily as just an card for groceries. I think premeir will get gas travel and restuarant duty, if the card ever gets here. Some months i struggle to hit the 30 swipe min for 50% bonus is why i am contemplating just downgradig to the ED. Potentially get SPG for a new everyday spend card or use one of my AA cards for everyday spend. Trying to save up AA points for upgrade to first class on cathay trip next year sometime.
Rough week for card deliveries!

In my view, all things equal, it should be either: (1) EDP standalone; or, (2) ED & PRG.

I don't think it's worthwhile absorbing the fee on both. It's a tough choice, given the PRG's non forex, 2% restaurants, and $100 Airline credit. If you pay for the EDP, then the only purpose for your PRG would be dining and Airfare. Even then, dining at 2% isn't that much greater than 1.5%.
I don't think i travel enough to warrant the huge af of PRG, i know other people situation may be different. The original plan was ED/EDP+ Premier to cover almost all spending. Gas groceries and eating out covers an lot of spend. What do with the non category spending is where i don't know what to do . If i put it on amex then i will keep and put it on EDP, if i put it on another card i will probably just downgrade the EDP to ED.

Also now that my PRG miles have posted i have to see how i want to manage my ~100k MR , if i want to dump them all into SQ for first class suite down the road.

Sorry, misread your post. I thought you were considering EDP & PRG, instead you were combining EDP & ~~Prestige~~ Premier, which does make sense! Got lost and confused with the Ps!

*Edited* Sorry, having trouble reading this morning!

Re: Switch to MR from cash back?

Anonymous — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 17:10:33 GMT

True about 1.5 not being that much less than 2 for restaurants. My next round of overthinking things involves who gets what, how and when.

Current AmEx cards:

TE - backdated to 1987 (obtained in 12?13?) - me primary, DH AU $4200 CL

BCP - obtained 4/15 - me primary, DH AU $15k (courtesy of 3x on activation)

Plat - DH only, new

The whole costco thing also throws an unknown in here. I want to do whatever I can to keep the 1987 card. I've heard they're only offering people BCE. Not helpful.

I thought about trying to PC the BCP since it's got such a nice CL and I don't really NEED another TL. I know it'd avoid any bonus, but it'd also help AAoA and Inq. But, if I'm going to also go for a PRG, then there'd already be a HP so what the heck. And AAoA is overrated, right? I'd have to check, but I'm sure I'm still at about 6 years. I've read about some people PCing to the EDP from the BCP when it first came out. But I've also read recently that you can't.

IF we went with the two new cards, I figured I'd do them for me on (hopefully) 1HP. DH would need to be on the EDP, since it would be gas, groceries, general spend and we'd need swipes. Maybe I don't put him on the PRG to save him the AAoA hit? Then if I downgrade or cancel down the line, he can get one and get the bonus (could he anyway if he had been an AU?) I'd thought about doing the EDP when he got the Plat, but chickened out. This would put (virtually) all new MR in my account (hopefully with 25k and 50k bonuses...thinking through making the spend) and he'd have his 100k.

The alternatives are apping for the EDP for him and me being AU and waiting on PRG. Or do both for him and not get me a PRG. I can use RC for restaurants since lots of the spend I was planning on to meet the 10k for Marriott gold would be diverted for spend bonuses. That would keep all the current AmEx cards in one account. Maybe that makes the most sense? The only thing that would suck is if he didn't get a great EDP limit, he'd have no donor. Mine eventually could be. He's 718 EX.

The last scenario is actually sounding like it makes the most sense. What say you?

Re: Switch to MR from cash back?

Open123 — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 17:27:58 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
True about 1.5 not being that much less than 2 for restaurants. My next round of overthinking things involves who gets what, how and when.

Current AmEx cards:
TE - backdated to 1987 (obtained in 12?13?) - me primary, DH AU $4200 CL
BCP - obtained 4/15 - me primary, DH AU $15k (courtesy of 3x on activation)
Plat - DH only, new

The whole costco thing also throws an unknown in here. I want to do whatever I can to keep the 1987 card. I've heard they're only offering people BCE. Not helpful.
I thought about trying to PC the BCP since it's got such a nice CL and I don't really NEED another TL. I know it'd avoid any bonus, but it'd also help AAoA and Inq. But, if I'm going to also go for a PRG, then there'd already be a HP so what the heck. And AAoA is overrated, right? I'd have to check, but I'm sure I'm still at about 6 years. I've read about some people PCing to the EDP from the BCP when it first came out. But I've also read recently that you can't.

-- Since the practice of backdating has been purged, you should make every effort to keep you Member since 87 card. If this means PC'ing into a less valuable card, though it takes up one of your 4 allowed Revolvers, it's worth it, given your Member Since date. AAOA is overrated for thick files with plenty of 15+ year TLs, which appears you and your DH may have. Of course, in the past, those of us to customariy app'ed for 2 January Amexes every year, any adverse AAOA effects were not only completely neutralized, but have been strengthened for years to come. Not sure now, but in the past, you could not PC from a BCP into the EDP, because of the difference in rewards system. However, you should call and see if it's possible. I agree that $150 isn't worth it for a new TL, now that backdating has been purged.

IF we went with the two new cards, I figured I'd do them for me on (hopefully) 1HP. DH would need to be on the EDP, since it would be gas, groceries, general spend and we'd need swipes. Maybe I don't put him on the PRG to save him the AAoA hit? Then if I downgrade or cancel down the line, he can get one and get the bonus (could he anyway if he had been an AU?) I'd thought about doing the EDP when he got the Plat, but chickened out. This would put (virtually) all new MR in my account (hopefully with 25k and 50k bonuses...thinking through making the spend) and he'd have his 100k.

-- This makes sense, because of simply the PRG's current offer is so compelling--no fee, airline credit, roadside recovery, and 50K MR. All for $1,000 spend and 2X restaurants and 3X airfare for the year. You should app for you on the same day (make sure your last Amex app was greater than 90 days, and won't push the 4 revolver limitation), which may result in only a single HP. Place DH on the EDP, and save the HP, for now.

The alternatives are apping for the EDP for him and me being AU and waiting on PRG. Or do both for him and not get me a PRG. I can use RC for restaurants since lots of the spend I was planning on to meet the 10k for Marriott gold would be diverted for spend bonuses. That would keep all the current AmEx cards in one account. Maybe that makes the most sense? The only thing that would suck is if he didn't get a great EDP limit, he'd have no donor. Mine eventually could be. He's 718 EX.

-- If it were me, I'd go with the above plan. Given that we're now restricted with one bonus per product, save DH's apps for potential future offers. You never know, but there may be an even better offer for the PRG! When it pops up, then DH can take advantage of it! The great thing is for both MR and SPG, you and DH may move points freely to each other consolidating for some extraodrinary redemptions.

The last scenario is actually sounding like it makes the most sense. What say you?

From my perspective, I like the one where you app for the PRG and PC into the EDP, if possible. Assuming you can't PC, then app for EDP & one of you should app for the PRG, just because the current bonus is so compelling.

Good luck! So much fun, isn't it? LOL

Re: Switch to MR from cash back?

Anonymous — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 18:02:18 GMT

Very un-knowledgeable, unhelpful AmEx phone rep.

No, can't PC. This wasn't all that surprising.

Then I started asking about the Costco TE. He knew SO LITTLE. He kept reading statements that were incorrect. But the bottom line he told me it would just stop working. No other options. No PC. He told me after it stopped working I could use my BCP at all the places AmEx is accepted and listed Costco, Costco Gas. I said - Uh, no that's the point... Costco isn't going to accept AmEx after that date. Oy.

What's the best way to get someone who knows something/can do something? Call on a weekday?

Re: Switch to MR from cash back?

mongstradamus — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 18:08:31 GMT

You got the infamous uninformed Indian based CSR? As far as I can tell if you don't have 400+af platinum card you won't get us based CSR. I guess you can call and say you want to speak to us based CSR and see if you could get escalated to higher up supervisor

Re: Switch to MR from cash back?

Open123 — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 18:08:46 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Very un-knowledgeable, unhelpful AmEx phone rep.

No, can't PC. This wasn't all that surprising.

Then I started asking about the Costco TE. He knew SO LITTLE. He kept reading statements that were incorrect. But the bottom line he told me it would just stop working. No other options. No PC. He told me after it stopped working I could use my BCP at all the places AmEx is accepted and listed Costco, Costco Gas. I said - Uh, no that's the point... Costco isn't going to accept AmEx after that date. Oy.

What's the best way to get someone who knows something/can do something? Call on a weekday?

Ah, Amex support has never been known for being accurate, but this? Weekdays are usually better, and anyone but this person, I suppose.

Costco is not allowed to PC into any other Amex, but under the circumstances (losing costco to Citi), they will make an exception. Ordinarily neither the TE or Blue Cash cards may PC into the ED or EDP cards. However, I was hoping that given the one time Costco exception, they would allow you to PC into a card of your choice and maintain your 87 MS date, which is the best course of action.

Re: Switch to MR from cash back?

Anonymous — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 18:30:43 GMT

I could have DH call via the plat and then pass the phone to me. He's got the plat and he's AU on the others...

Re: Switch to MR from cash back?

red259 — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 18:37:28 GMT

@mongstradamus wrote:
I assume you are near LAX if you are in so cal. If you are near LAX i think you probably have access to every airline thats out there. I don't really know where you want to travel , but I think SQ has direct from LAX to Hong kong. Using mr for first class suite wouldn't be too shabby.

For me i am saving up my MR, UR , and TYP for first class suite from JFK to Frankfurt on SQ. I would just make to look at the partners Amex has and remember you can fly on the alliance partners of Amex's FF partners . For example Air canada is an partner of amex, so you can fly on almost any of the star alliance partners.

There is also a LAX to Tokyo flight with SQ as welll.