topic Re: Amex Upgrading/Converting Card Policy in Credit Cards

Amex Upgrading/Converting Card Policy

Anonymous — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 14:31:15 GMT

Here's my situation: I have had two Amex cards since 1999. I have had the Amex Blue since it first came out, and had the Amex Optima Platinium also since '99. I converted the Amex Optima Platinium to an Amex Everyday card a couple of months ago since the orignal card was no longer being offered. That was suposedly my only option to convert to.

Now Amex is saying they are going to convert the Amex Blue to an Amex Everyday. I don't want to have two Amex Everyday cards, but they are saying that they can only convert a card within the same family. They told me I can apply for another card, but obviously that woud be a HP and effect my AAOA.

Is there no other way to change the card to another card by a back door approach? Is this a situation where I contact the EO?

I'm irritated since I've been with them since 1999, they know my EX score, have a perfect track record, but it seems somewhat of an inflexible stance that you can convert only within a card family. I'm sure others have encountered this before.

Re: Amex Upgrading/Converting Card Policy

Open123 — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 14:42:02 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Here's my situation: I have had two Amex cards since 1999. I have had the Amex Blue since it first came out, and had the Amex Optima Platinium also since '99. I converted the Amex Optima Platinium to an Amex Everyday card a couple of months ago since the orignal card was no longer being offered. That was suposedly my only option to convert to.

Now Amex is saying they are going to convert the Amex Blue to an Amex Everyday. I don't want to have two Amex Everyday cards, but they are saying that they can only convert a card within the same family. They told me I can apply for another card, but obviously that woud be a HP and effect my AAOA.

Is there no other way to change the card to another card by a back door approach? Is this a situation where I contact the EO?

I'm irritated since I've been with them since 1999, they know my EX score, have a perfect track record, but it seems somewhat of an inflexible stance that you can convert only within a card family. I'm sure others have encountered this before.

Right, who would?!

In general, Amex policy is or has been to disallow PCs when transitioning from one uinque rewards structure to another. In this case, the Blue has MR Rewards, and the ED cards are the only consumer revolvers with a similar rewards program.

While I haven't been attempted this personally (will so soon, and request a PC from HHonors to SPG), you may be able to request an exception. With Amex's, regardless of their "set" policy, they do tend to make more "exceptions" than other Issuers. In your case, worth a try to plead your case.

Good luck!

Re: Amex Upgrading/Converting Card Policy

kdm31091 — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 14:59:07 GMT

I agree that although a CSR may tell you a "policy", it seems Amex has somewhat more leeway with it when it comes to PCs. They don't allow anything and everything of course but if you plead your case, you may get better results.

You say "they told you" they are PCing your card to the ED -- I can only imagine they are discontinuing the Blue, as there is little point to its existence with the Everyday.

Re: Amex Upgrading/Converting Card Policy

Anonymous — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 15:57:51 GMT

A CSR told me yesterday that they are PCing the Blue card into an ED card soon.

So is this something to email the EX or more so a call with a request to speak with a supervisor, since when speaking or chatting with a CSR, even though I state umpteen times I already have an ED card and they should be able to see that from my account, they repeat rebotically that I can PC the Blue to an EV?

Re: Amex Upgrading/Converting Card Policy

Open123 — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 16:07:40 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
A CSR told me yesterday that they are PCing the Blue card into an ED card soon.

So is this something to email the EX or more so a call with a request to speak with a supervisor, since when speaking or chatting with a CSR, even though I state umpteen times I already have an ED card and they should be able to see that from my account, they repeat rebotically that I can PC the Blue to an EV?

While there are no assurances of success, I'd write a letter to their Executive Offices explaining your situation. Their office will give you a call, where hopefully they'll grant you an exception, once you explain your situation.

Good luck!

Re: Amex Upgrading/Converting Card Policy

NRB525 — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 16:20:27 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Here's my situation: I have had two Amex cards since 1999. I have had the Amex Blue since it first came out, and had the Amex Optima Platinium also since '99. I converted the Amex Optima Platinium to an Amex Everyday card a couple of months ago since the orignal card was no longer being offered. That was suposedly my only option to convert to.

Now Amex is saying they are going to convert the Amex Blue to an Amex Everyday. I don't want to have two Amex Everyday cards, but they are saying that they can only convert a card within the same family. They told me I can apply for another card, but obviously that woud be a HP and effect my AAOA.

Is there no other way to change the card to another card by a back door approach? Is this a situation where I contact the EO?

I'm irritated since I've been with them since 1999, they know my EX score, have a perfect track record, but it seems somewhat of an inflexible stance that you can convert only within a card family. I'm sure others have encountered this before.

I can understand that you want to stay away from two EveryDay cards, but they will keep the same original opening date, and are no AF cards, so there's really no penalty from this.

With scores 775-800, you could afford the HP to get another card, and you are aware, I presume,.that nearly all the AMEX cards that are interesting have a sign up bonus, in amounts ranging from "that's nice" to "That Really Is Nice!".

Good luck with trying to convert the ED cards, but if it were me, I wouldn't worry too much about it, and realize there are several familes of cards in AMEX, each with some rather lucrative sign up bonus structures.

Re: Amex Upgrading/Converting Card Policy

Open123 — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 17:05:50 GMT

@NRB525 wrote:
With scores 775-800, you could afford the HP to get another card, and you are aware, I presume,.that nearly all the AMEX cards that are interesting have a sign up bonus, in amounts ranging from "that's nice" to "That Really Is Nice!".

Moreover, with Amex, PC'ing into a card will not only cause one to miss out on a current bonus, but be disqualified from any potential future bonuses. When backdating existed, it was Rewards 101 to *NEVER* PC Amex cards (unless an upgrade bonus was available), and *ALWAYS* initiate a new App in private browser mode. And, with backdating, no HP if declined, and only an HP on EX with AAOA enhancement, since new Amex TLs were never treated as such. It was truly remarkable the amount of PC'ing Amex cards that was taking place here.

Now, with backdating gone, the price for a new Amex is HP and new TL. So, if one places the price of an HP/New TL greater than, say, the PRG offer of 50K MR, no first year fee, 2X dining, 3X travel, $200 Airline GC credit, and roadside service, then PC, and don't app.

*Edited* PS - One could only have sympathy for those unfortuante souls who were advised to PC (especially when backdating existed, missing out on 10 years of AAOA enhancements, all to avoid an HP which is meaningless after 12 months, and disappears after 24) from the Green, to the PRG, and then to the Plat, missing out not only on every bonus along the way, but every future bonus until time immemorial, unless Amex changes their one per lifetime policy. This is clearly a vivid example of well meaning advice that made abslutely no sense.

Re: Amex Upgrading/Converting Card Policy

Anonymous — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 17:25:50 GMT

Guess I'd like to find a work around for a PC without a HP. I'm HP adverse. What about where is says, "If we identify you as currently having an American Express® Card account, you may not be eligible for this welcome bonus offer. This offer is also not available to applicants who have or have had this product." I'm interested in the Premier Rewards Gold Card, and those 50,000 points. I might be tempted to take the HP.

So Open13, what are your scores and CCs?

Re: Amex Upgrading/Converting Card Policy

kdm31091 — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 17:30:07 GMT

@Open123 wrote:
@NRB525 wrote:
With scores 775-800, you could afford the HP to get another card, and you are aware, I presume,.that nearly all the AMEX cards that are interesting have a sign up bonus, in amounts ranging from "that's nice" to "That Really Is Nice!".
Moreover, with Amex, PC'ing into a card will not only cause one to miss out on a current bonus, but be disqualified from any potential future bonuses. When backdating existed, it was Rewards 101 to *NEVER* PC Amex cards (unless an upgrade bonus was available), and *ALWAYS* initiate a new App in private browser mode. And, with backdating, no HP if declined, and only an HP on EX with AAOA enhancement, since new Amex TLs were never treated as such. It was truly remarkable the amount of PC'ing Amex cards that was taking place here.

Now, with backdating gone, the price for a new Amex is HP and new TL. So, if one places the price of an HP/New TL greater than, say, the PRG offer of 50K MR, no first year fee, 2X dining, 3X travel, $200 Airline GC credit, and roadside service, then PC, and don't app.

*Edited* PS - One could only have sympathy for those unfortuante souls who were advised to PC (especially when backdating existed, missing out on 10 years of AAOA enhancements, all to avoid an HP which is meaningless after 12 months, and disappears after 24) from the Green, to the PRG, and then to the Plat, missing out not only on every bonus along the way, but every future bonus until time immemorial, unless Amex changes their one per lifetime policy. This is clearly a vivid example of well meaning advice that made abslutely no sense.

One still gets the 2x dining/3x travel/airline credit/roadside service whether they PC or cold app. They only lose the bonus and first year fee waiver (which may be important, but your list makes it seems like PCing makes you lose every benefit).

Re: Amex Upgrading/Converting Card Policy

NRB525 — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 17:45:21 GMT

@kdm31091 wrote:
@Open123 wrote:
@NRB525 wrote:
With scores 775-800, you could afford the HP to get another card, and you are aware, I presume,.that nearly all the AMEX cards that are interesting have a sign up bonus, in amounts ranging from "that's nice" to "That Really Is Nice!".
Moreover, with Amex, PC'ing into a card will not only cause one to miss out on a current bonus, but be disqualified from any potential future bonuses. When backdating existed, it was Rewards 101 to *NEVER* PC Amex cards (unless an upgrade bonus was available), and *ALWAYS* initiate a new App in private browser mode. And, with backdating, no HP if declined, and only an HP on EX with AAOA enhancement, since new Amex TLs were never treated as such. It was truly remarkable the amount of PC'ing Amex cards that was taking place here.

Now, with backdating gone, the price for a new Amex is HP and new TL. So, if one places the price of an HP/New TL greater than, say, the PRG offer of 50K MR, no first year fee, 2X dining, 3X travel, $200 Airline GC credit, and roadside service, then PC, and don't app.

*Edited* PS - One could only have sympathy for those unfortuante souls who were advised to PC (especially when backdating existed, missing out on 10 years of AAOA enhancements, all to avoid an HP which is meaningless after 12 months, and disappears after 24) from the Green, to the PRG, and then to the Plat, missing out not only on every bonus along the way, but every future bonus until time immemorial, unless Amex changes their one per lifetime policy. This is clearly a vivid example of well meaning advice that made abslutely no sense.
One still gets the 2x dining/3x travel/airline credit/roadside service whether they PC or cold app. They only lose the bonus and first year fee waiver (which may be important, but your list makes it seems like PCing makes you lose every benefit).

You do lose all the benefits, if you PC, because the first year AF is no longer waived, so you have to start trying to earn out of the AF from day one, not on day 366 if the card is still open and the AF is charged.

Re: Amex Upgrading/Converting Card Policy

NRB525 — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 17:47:42 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Guess I'd like to find a work around for a PC without a HP. I'm HP adverse. What about where is says, "If we identify you as currently having an American Express® Card account, you may not be eligible for this welcome bonus offer. This offer is also not available to applicants who have or have had this product." I'm interested in the Premier Rewards Gold Card, and those 50,000 points. I might be tempted to take the HP.

So Open13, what are your scores and CCs?

If you have not had the specific card before, you get the bonus.

If you have had the specific card before, you don't get the bonus.

The generic language is there, on all the cards, but it is applied to each card specifically.

Your scores will allow you to get any AMEX card you want, short of the Centurion. But that's $2,500 just to get them to look at you, so you aren't apping for that, are you?

Re: Amex Upgrading/Converting Card Policy

Open123 — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 17:53:42 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Guess I'd like to find a work around for a PC without a HP. I'm HP adverse. What about where is says, "If we identify you as currently having an American Express® Card account, you may not be eligible for this welcome bonus offer. This offer is also not available to applicants who have or have had this product." I'm interested in the Premier Rewards Gold Card, and those 50,000 points. I might be tempted to take the HP.

So Open13, what are your scores and CCs?

Log off Amex, and use private browser (cookies and cache cleared) and the "identify you as Amex customer" will never come into play.

My scores are around 720 - 740, and I have around 12 personal CCs that I cycle for bonuses. I only have Amex, Chase, Citi, US Bank, Cap One and Discover. I have tons of current and closed Amex TLs, all backdated to create a ballast for adverse AAOA from my new apps for bonuses.

Re: Amex Upgrading/Converting Card Policy

Open123 — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 18:30:38 GMT

@NRB525 wrote:
You do lose all the benefits, if you PC, because the first year AF is no longer waived, so you have to start trying to earn out of the AF from day one, not on day 366 if the card is still open and the AF is charged.

Right, PC and start at negative $195. So, you'd have to spend $9,750 on dining just to recoup the MR points to offset the fee.

*Edited* PS - In addition, losing out on the 50K bonus (and, any potential future bonus for the rest of your life) brings it to about a negative $700 in absolute cash equivalent terms. This sound smart to anyone?

Re: Amex Upgrading/Converting Card Policy

Anonymous — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 18:14:57 GMT

I'm not familiar with product changes at American Express. If you have already spoken with CS with unfavorable results, then I would call, write, or email the EO. Best of luck!!!

SN: My DH still has the Amex clear so he will probably soon be in the same boat.

Re: Amex Upgrading/Converting Card Policy

Anonymous — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 18:53:20 GMT

While I'm HP adverse, I'm also a bit cheap or too frugal for the Centurion. It's too rich for my blood. Even the $195 AF with the Amex Gold Prf seems high. But if I were to go for it, I'd definitely take the hit and get the 50,000 MR points as tradeoff.

It's funny but when your score is lower whatever the score is, inquiries seem less important. The higher your score moves up, the more valuable each inquiry becomes at least to me. You start to see the direct cost. Then it becomes somewhat more important to know if you really want the card.

Re: Amex Upgrading/Converting Card Policy

Open123 — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 19:16:28 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
While I'm HP adverse, I'm also a bit cheap or too frugal for the Centurion. It's too rich for my blood. Even the $195 AF with the Amex Gold Prf seems high. But if I were to go for it, I'd definitely take the hit and get the 50,000 MR points as tradeoff.

It's funny but when your score is lower whatever the score is, inquiries seem less important. The higher your score moves up, the more valuable each inquiry becomes at least to me. You start to see the direct cost. Then it becomes somewhat more important to know if you really want the card.

Well, I'd imagine most people aren't going to pay the PRG fee, ever. I'm not, and only app'ed for the 50K MR and free year of 2X dining and 3X airfare. I will cancel before next the fee hits. The PRG only makes sense for Corp travelers with lots of Airfare. I really don't understand this preoccupation with, "well, if I don't use it for the next 10 years, it doesn't make sense" thing.

Right, at 720 - 740, regardless of what I do, it's in that rage. Every approval, I receive the "too many inquiries" stuff, but have always been approved. If everything is in order, Issuers really don't care about HPs, unless it's an exorbitant amount.

Re: Amex Upgrading/Converting Card Policy

kdm31091 — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 19:23:19 GMT

@Open123 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
While I'm HP adverse, I'm also a bit cheap or too frugal for the Centurion. It's too rich for my blood. Even the $195 AF with the Amex Gold Prf seems high. But if I were to go for it, I'd definitely take the hit and get the 50,000 MR points as tradeoff.

It's funny but when your score is lower whatever the score is, inquiries seem less important. The higher your score moves up, the more valuable each inquiry becomes at least to me. You start to see the direct cost. Then it becomes somewhat more important to know if you really want the card.

Well, I'd imagine most people aren't going to pay the PRG fee, ever. I'm not, and only app'ed for the 50K MR and free year of 2X dining and 3X airfare. I will cancel before next the fee hits. The PRG only makes sense for Corp travelers with lots of Airfare. I really don't understand this preoccupation with, "well, if I don't use it for the next 10 years, it doesn't make sense" thing.

Right, at 720 - 740, regardless of what I do, it's in that rage. Every approval, I receive the "too many inquiries" stuff, but have always been approved. If everything is in order, Issuers really don't care about HPs, unless it's an exorbitant amount.

Right, but not everyone has the same priorities. Some people don't want to apply for a card just for a bonus etc and don't want their reports cluttered for years with all of the "open/closed/open/closed" accounts. Different strokes for different folks. Of course you find it worthwhile because you are interested in the bonuses but it is not worthwhile for everyone. I wouldn't apply for a PRG because I know I can't justify it long term, but I know others don't care and just use it for a year.

I agree with your point about inquiries though. Once your profile is thick and well-established, the number of inquiries by itself becomes less important.

Re: Amex Upgrading/Converting Card Policy

Anonymous — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 19:33:37 GMT

So how many HPs do you have Churner123...I meant Open123? So basically you open the account for the MR and then close it after 1 year? Do you have any cards with AFs? Open...how many MR points have you racked up or earned this year?

I believe I read here before, but is there some sliding scale for inquiries based on the number of points deducted? Is there a point beyond which you no longer lose points based on the # of inquiries?

Re: Amex Upgrading/Converting Card Policy

Open123 — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 19:41:42 GMT

You're right. Go with what you feel is best.

Best of luck to you in your credit journey!

Re: Amex Upgrading/Converting Card Policy

Anonymous — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 20:24:59 GMT

So how many Hps do you have on each CR?