topic Re: TOO many recent accounts in Credit Cards

TOO many recent accounts

icyhot — Tue, 06 Oct 2015 14:30:41 GMT

I've been trying to get CLIs on both of my Citi cards and for the life of me haven't been able to. The reason has always been too many recent accounts. I didn't even realize how many recent acocunt I had until I checked CK and looked.

Last 6 Months:

BofA AAA card: 4/7/2015 (closed)

American Airlines card: 4/19/2015 (closed, still reporting open)

Delta Amex: 4/19/2015 still open, plan to close and roll into Hilton

Fidelity Amex: 4/27/2015 (closed)

CSP: 4/28/2015

Venture: 6/7/2015

Cap1 Spark: 6/7/2015 (plan to roll into other Spark)

Hilton Amex: 6/15/2015

BP store card (closed this less than 48 hours after I opened it, disputed it after it reported, CK said it was removed, its still there???)

Cap 1 Spark select: 9/7/2015

From 12/27/2014 to 3/26/2015 I opened 11 cards, only 3 of which are still open. So thats 21 cars in a year span, and I only have 9 cards to show for it ( my other 3, Forward, Macy's and Kohls were opened outside the year span).

Littered file as it may be, I use these Citi cards heavily. When would be a good time to ask for an increase? Besides Amex, they're the only ones who won't budge.

Re: TOO many recent accounts

kdm31091 — Tue, 06 Oct 2015 14:36:10 GMT

It sounds obvious but the only thing that's going to fix this is time. Get in the garden and stay for at least 6 months. Ignore offers, bonuses, etc. Don't research cards. Use what you have and build a history. Chasing after every card you want as soon as you decide you want it eventually backfires, as you see, your existing cards are reluctant to grow in some cases.

I'd simply garden 6 months or a year, avoid new accounts and go from there. Nothing else is going to help. Lenders need to see stability and history. They do not like patterns of opening, closing, limited use, etc. because it shows them nothing about your ability to consistently pay debts.

Re: TOO many recent accounts

bdhu2001 — Tue, 06 Oct 2015 14:36:02 GMT

Wait until July of next year. It doesn't look like you need the credit you've been applying for so go to the garden until July.

Re: TOO many recent accounts

ddemari — Tue, 06 Oct 2015 15:07:45 GMT

Your scores are good, but I guess too much activity with accounts opening/closing that is causing lenders to give you that reason. If you can garden for even 6 months, you probably would yield some good results.

Re: TOO many recent accounts

TheConductor — Tue, 06 Oct 2015 15:34:03 GMT

@icyhot wrote:

Last 6 Months:
BofA AAA card: 4/7/2015 (closed)
American Airlines card: 4/19/2015 (closed, still reporting open)
Fidelity Amex: 4/27/2015 (closed)
BP store card (closed this less than 48 hours after I opened it, disputed it after it reported, CK said it was removed, its still there???)

From 12/27/2014 to 3/26/2015 I opened 11 cards, only 3 of which are still open.

I make no assumptions or judgments about your actual reason for doing this, but I will caution you that opening lots of cards and closing them within months of opening can look to creditors like the profile of a bonus-chasing churner who will never return enough profit to them to justify the cost of customer acquisition/retention, or like someone who is heavily addicted to acquiring new accounts. Neither of those profiles looks like a particularly good risk for extending more credit.

On a positive note, I am guessing that your payment history must be pretty impeccable for you to have the scores and accounts shown in your signature despite all the recent inquiries and new accounts. If that is the case, it looks to me like you should be a better candidate for a CLI by 6/15/2016, when the vast majority of the inquiries will have aged past 12 months.

Meanwhile, in addition to gardening I'd also recommend not closing any more accounts. Postpone your plans to merge any more accounts for a little while until you get some age on them. With time and continued clean payment history, you'll soon be back in their good graces.

Re: TOO many recent accounts

kdm31091 — Tue, 06 Oct 2015 15:43:04 GMT

@TheConductor wrote:
@icyhot wrote:

Last 6 Months:
BofA AAA card: 4/7/2015 (closed)
American Airlines card: 4/19/2015 (closed, still reporting open)
Fidelity Amex: 4/27/2015 (closed)
BP store card (closed this less than 48 hours after I opened it, disputed it after it reported, CK said it was removed, its still there???)

From 12/27/2014 to 3/26/2015 I opened 11 cards, only 3 of which are still open.
I make no assumptions or judgments about your actual reason for doing this, but I will caution you that opening lots of cards and closing them within months of opening can look to creditors like the profile of a bonus-chasing churner who will never return enough profit to them to justify the cost of customer acquisition/retention, or like someone who is heavily addicted to acquiring new accounts. Neither of those profiles looks like a particularly good risk for extending more credit.

On a positive note, I am guessing that your payment history must be pretty impeccable for you to have the scores and accounts shown in your signature despite all the recent inquiries and new accounts. If that is the case, it looks to me like you should be a better candidate for a CLI by 6/15/2016, when the vast majority of the inquiries will have aged past 12 months.

Meanwhile, in addition to gardening I'd also recommend not closing any more accounts. Postpone your plans to merge any more accounts for a little while until you get some age on them. With time and continued clean payment history, you'll soon be back in their good graces.

Exactly. Not closing anything for awhile is a good plan. I'd just use the cards occasionally, pay them, show a track record and let your report basically sit idle for awhile.

Re: TOO many recent accounts

icyhot — Tue, 06 Oct 2015 19:34:31 GMT

Hmm ok. I was planning on closing Kohls and consolidating my Amexes, my Sparks and my QS into the Venture. My Amexes won't be eligible for combo until May, the Sparks in March and the Venture and QS will be eligible in December but I plan on paying the balance of the QS in January. I've actually set "credit limit goals" for all of my cards, I'd like to get my Venture to 15K after comboing, my BofA and CSP can't stay the same, and I'd like my Gold AA to be 7K, my Forward to 5K and upped to a Visa Sig, one Amex at $5K, and Spark at $5K. I set a goal of having that done by this summer because all of my CC debt will be gone and most of my accounts will be over a year old. Should I save any combining until next summer? Or wait longer?

Re: TOO many recent accounts

TheConductor — Tue, 06 Oct 2015 20:05:32 GMT

@icyhot wrote:
Hmm ok. I was planning on closing Kohls and consolidating my Amexes, my Sparks and my QS into the Venture. My Amexes won't be eligible for combo until May, the Sparks in March and the Venture and QS will be eligible in December but I plan on paying the balance of the QS in January. I've actually set "credit limit goals" for all of my cards, I'd like to get my Venture to 15K after comboing, my BofA and CSP can't stay the same, and I'd like my Gold AA to be 7K, my Forward to 5K and upped to a Visa Sig, one Amex at $5K, and Spark at $5K. I set a goal of having that done by this summer because all of my CC debt will be gone and most of my accounts will be over a year old. Should I save any combining until next summer? Or wait longer?

So you're aiming for a total combined CL of approximately $62k?

I noticed in another recent thread you were apping for a new student loan. Consequently, I suspect you may already be near the ceiling of likely CLs you will be able to get with a student's income and outstanding installment loan debt. $62k seems like a lot relative to a typical student income, even for grad students with paid assistantships.

Maybe you're not the typical student, but if you are I recommend taking one step back from the credit limit goals and asking yourself "what are the tradelines I actually expect to use frequently over the next 2 years?" Then focus on growing the CLs only for those accounts.

You can certainly achieve a fair amount of CL growth without closing any accounts. You can always just leave a small token limit ($500, say) on the cards you are taking the CL from, and add the rest to the destination card.

I would definitely work on waiting as an element of your strategy. You seem to have been pursuing this strategy so far of opening accounts and then merging them to grow CLs, but I suspect you would ultimately see better and more rapid growth by gardening what you have for a while. Especially with Amex, where you could potentially get SP approval for the 3x CLIs if your reports calm down a bit.

In your shoes I would be aiming for the 6/15/16 deadline I suggested - no new apps until then, and only close an account if both it is not one you intend to keep, and the annual fee is due within the next 30 days. YMMV, but that's what I would do.

Best of luck in achieving your goals!!

Re: TOO many recent accounts

icyhot — Tue, 06 Oct 2015 20:35:02 GMT

Thanks! Well I'm not the typical student, I'm a teacher as well and have a 40K income (getting a masters to make more) and after looking through some threads seen a lot of people have CLs that exceeded their income so long as their profile supported. My Delta AF is due in April, so if I have to eat that cost for the sake of a stronger profile so be it. Every other account isn't killing me to keep open

Re: TOO many recent accounts

icyhot — Tue, 06 Oct 2015 20:37:35 GMT

I never opened an account for the sake of combining, but after evaluating my spend pattern I deemed it best to cut some loose, but still keep the CL

Re: TOO many recent accounts

Anonymous — Tue, 06 Oct 2015 22:45:35 GMT

Do you have a specific need for a bigger credit line at this time? Perhaps a nice chat with an analyst would yield better results.

Re: TOO many recent accounts

red259 — Tue, 06 Oct 2015 23:51:44 GMT

You did some real damage to yourself with all the apps and I agree time is the only thing that will really help here. The closing accounts months within opening them isn't going to look good. I don't know if its a situation where you went for a bonus and then cancelled as soon as it posted in an effort to get an AF back. If the card was AF free for the first year then my recommendation would be to keep new cards open for at least ten months and then evaluate if you want to renew/downgrade/cancel. Nothing wrong with going for bonuses, but I have seen people who make a habit of opening cards, getting the bonus and then closing right away in order to try to get a refund on the non-waived AF and I feel those people are just asking to be flagged by lenders. Even if they don't get flagged its going to look really lousy if they have a manual review with someone on a recon.

Re: TOO many recent accounts

Imperfectfuture — Wed, 07 Oct 2015 05:27:33 GMT

@red259 wrote:
You did some real damage to yourself with all the apps and I agree time is the only thing that will really help here. The closing accounts months within opening them isn't going to look good. I don't know if its a situation where you went for a bonus and then cancelled as soon as it posted in an effort to get an AF back. If the card was AF free for the first year then my recommendation would be to keep new cards open for at least ten months and then evaluate if you want to renew/downgrade/cancel. Nothing wrong with going for bonuses, but I have seen people who make a habit of opening cards, getting the bonus and then closing right away in order to try to get a refund on the non-waived AF and I feel those people are just asking to be flagged by lenders. Even if they don't get flagged its going to look really lousy if they have a manual review with someone on a recon.

Can you get a bonus, and have the AF waived by closing?

Re: TOO many recent accounts

red259 — Wed, 07 Oct 2015 05:52:23 GMT

@Imperfectfuture wrote:
@red259 wrote:
You did some real damage to yourself with all the apps and I agree time is the only thing that will really help here. The closing accounts months within opening them isn't going to look good. I don't know if its a situation where you went for a bonus and then cancelled as soon as it posted in an effort to get an AF back. If the card was AF free for the first year then my recommendation would be to keep new cards open for at least ten months and then evaluate if you want to renew/downgrade/cancel. Nothing wrong with going for bonuses, but I have seen people who make a habit of opening cards, getting the bonus and then closing right away in order to try to get a refund on the non-waived AF and I feel those people are just asking to be flagged by lenders. Even if they don't get flagged its going to look really lousy if they have a manual review with someone on a recon.
Can you get a bonus, and have the AF waived by closing?

I've seen it done with Citi AA exec cards when they had 100k offers people were just going to town with that stuff. I would assume you can do it with other lenders or at least get back most of your AF by doing that. It's definitely not something I have ever been willing to do, although some people do it.

Re: TOO many recent accounts

icyhot — Wed, 07 Oct 2015 11:18:13 GMT

Well as you can see none of the cards that I closed have bonuses, that wasn't my intention.

Re: TOO many recent accounts

gdale6 — Wed, 07 Oct 2015 12:54:53 GMT

A word of wisdom, underwriters cannot stand accounts that are opened then closed in a short period of time (6 months or less) a year or better is best before closing a card.

Re: TOO many recent accounts

kdm31091 — Wed, 07 Oct 2015 13:28:14 GMT

@icyhot wrote:
Well as you can see none of the cards that I closed have bonuses, that wasn't my intention.

Well even if you aren't chasing bonuses, I think the point is you just need to be more selective when choosing cards to apply for (and keep). As gdale mentioned, underwriters hate frequent opening and closing. As much as I'm a proponent of "if the card has no use to you anymore, close it", you don't need to close it the second you decide that, particularly if it has no fee and was recently opened. Just throw it in the drawer, forget about it for 6 months, and then close it if you still want to. If it goes inactive and closes that way, who cares? You were going to close it anyway.

Every single account you open stays on your report for 10 years even if you keep it for a week. With that being the "price" of a new account, you need to think longer and harder before opening them. Run the numbers. "Will an extra 0.5% on this category really make a difference with my spend? What about the redemption minimums? Will it take me 3 years to rack up meaningful points?" etc...doing this, you will often find you don't need the card.

Re: TOO many recent accounts

takeshi74 — Wed, 07 Oct 2015 14:03:34 GMT

@icyhot wrote:
I didn't even realize how many recent acocunt I had until I checked CK and looked.

IMO that should be a red flag to you. You should be aware of your credit situation.

Re: TOO many recent accounts

Anonymous — Wed, 07 Oct 2015 14:32:25 GMT

@icyhot wrote:
I never opened an account for the sake of combining, but after evaluating my spend pattern I deemed it best to cut some loose, but still keep the CL

Just reiterating what kdm and takeshi said...this evaluation is best done before you apply for cards, not after, if you want to keep your credit profile in good shape

@icyhot wrote:
a lot of people have CLs that exceeded their income so long as their profile supported. My Delta AF is due in April, so if I have to eat that cost for the sake of a stronger profile so be it. Every other account isn't killing me to keep open

Even though this works for other people, it doesn't mean it will necessarily work for you Is there any particular reason you need this much credit and are setting goals for CL's? Just getting credit for the sake of higher CL's doesn't seem like it's in your best interest currently.

I think I would garden at least for a year in your situation to let those inquiries age off your credit score. If you really want to increase your chances at CLI's then it might be best to wait until they age off your credit report entirely, which would be 2 years. Not a great situation, yes, but at least now you know what not to do in the future

Re: TOO many recent accounts

Blodreina — Wed, 07 Oct 2015 17:16:46 GMT

@gdale6 wrote:
A word of wisdom, underwriters cannot stand accounts that are opened then closed in a short period of time (6 months or less) a year or better is best before closing a card.

I am not disputing this, but what solid evidence do we have to support this? The forum so frequently tosses things around as common knowledge and fact.