topic Re: How much does your credit line depend on your Income vs History? in Credit Cards

How much does your credit line depend on your Income vs History?

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Nov 2015 21:01:27 GMT

When I see some of you guys and gals with 6 figures worth of credit on here it makes me wonder if you're all neurosurgeons, lawyers and CEO's or if it's more dependent on your history and score more than your actual income -- Can anyone (who has great credit history) obtain this much credit or are all of you extremely high paid individuals?

Just curious if you're all highly successful or just managed your credit like a boss, I'd assume a combo of the two.

I've never been asked to verify income, seems like you can type in any number you want.

Re: How much does your credit line depend on your Income vs History?

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Nov 2015 21:10:36 GMT

It has a lot to do with it. I know for a fact my high income has been looked at favorably by creditors that wouldn't have extended me credit otherwise. Over the past 6 months, I've taken my FICO score from 620 to 715 or so and it's allowed me to grow my TL's from $15K total to over $100K total, getting closer to 1:1 with my income.

I suspect my new TL's will naturally grow (auto CLI and CLI requests) to approximately 1.5-2x my income in the next 12-18 months.

For those who report $20K-50K income on apps and still receive 5 digit trade lines, I don't know how they do it. I app'd for my first Amex card a few months ago, and they granted me $500 (yes, not missing a zero) CL with over $130K reported income. Some creditors just don't care about your income and are turned off by certain things in your credit history.

Re: How much does your credit line depend on your Income vs History?

Rebuilding69 — Mon, 02 Nov 2015 21:19:06 GMT

I've never been asked income either though I'm only at about $30k total credit after I started my Building/Rebuilding phase.

I wonder if they compare what you type in to the average in your area, with a hardline of some sort at which point they ask for verification?

Edit: My income is at $40k-$44k or so(it varies alot) with around $30k in credit. NFCU accounts for over $22k of that with Cap1 in 2nd place at $3300(just started with them several months ago though). I'm wondering how high my credit will get with my current income. I actually wouldn't even be using credit if it weren't for my medical bills that were close to being reported as collections.

Re: How much does your credit line depend on your Income vs History?

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Nov 2015 21:21:51 GMT

To further elaborate, in my own situation, I never would have thought about getting over 100K in TL's, but the information and inspiration from this forum has guided me to do so. It's more of a game to me now and credit is much less stressful. My own TL's grew very quickly through aggressive CLI requests and a big app spree, so I know I'm subject to AA, but I'm still less stressed out than I was before knowing that I know how to manage my credit and play the game.

It feels nice to finally have a credit portfolio worthy of my income. I guess the missing piece for me always was getting to 675-700+ FICO. When you need credit the most (even if it's just for improving your creditworthiness), they won't give it to you, and all I had to do is divert some income to clear out some debt, and 3 months later I have all of the cards I've ever wanted and enough credit available for anything I'd ever like to do.

I do know that some of the $5000 limit cards I've acquired recently would have resulted in non-approvals if I hadn't been able to submit as high of a stated income on the apps. Each one of those was probably borderline approval and many were the minimum issued CL for those particular products (I believe). If I had only been able to submit $50K income on those apps, I guarantee they wouldn't have been willing to extend the minimum $5K limit on several cards given my credit profile. Something won all of them over and it certainly wasn't my 670-690 credit score at the time. HAHA

Re: How much does your credit line depend on your Income vs History?

thom02099 — Mon, 02 Nov 2015 22:04:57 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
When I see some of you guys and gals with 6 figures worth of credit on here it makes me wonder if you're all neurosurgeons, lawyers and CEO's or if it's more dependent on your history and score more than your actual income -- Can anyone (who has great credit history) obtain this much credit or are all of you extremely high paid individuals?

Just curious if you're all highly successful or just managed your credit like a boss, I'd assume a combo of the two.

I've never been asked to verify income, seems like you can type in any number you want.

This is one of those YMMV topics. There's not necessarily a correlation between high income and high credit limits. There are many folks on here that have high incomes but low/mediocre scores, just as there are folks here with middle class incomes (< $100K income and frequently in the <$50K range) that have stellar scores. You cite 3 occupations (whether tongue-in-cheek or serious) that are far above what the average wage earner makes.

Those of us with high scores (800+) frequently have very thick files. Some of us have credit histories that go back 30 or more years. In my case, my history is 40 years; no, not all of that shows on a credit report. But folks who have long histories may have made some mistakes along the way (I certainly did) and learned from those mistakes. Those learning experiences contribute to current good financial habits and decisions. Having a thick file was probably contributory to my getting high limits.

As to income...I've never reported more than $80K ever, and in the last years of my employment (now retired), my reported income was ~$65K. This was individual income, not household income, which some folks utilise.

As to applying for and getting credit, I've been very fortunate. Having close to $200K in credit limits is certainly beneficial, but somewhat artificial, as $50K of that is from Diners Club on a near instant approval. That was my most recent aquisition and was mind blowing that they would grant me that much credit -- all on a hidden tradeline. That said, I'm certainly not going to turn it down. I simply manage it and other accounts judiciously. And because of that, my scores have increased over the years to where they are now, with and without hidden TL. The scores were what drove the higher credit limits, rather than the income. Almost all of my credit cards were instant approvals, or approvals after less than a week and a goodly number of the current cards were with limits at $5K or more to start. CLI have also been forthcoming, with and without requests. Just recently, I was bumped up a couple grand on my Discover IT account, and didn't ask for it; was just automatically granted.

So...is it income based, or is it history based? In my case, it's probably history based, as I have a substantial history of managing credit. But I also have glitches along the way. Fortunately, those no longer show up on my reports, hence the 800+ scores. In my case, the positive credit management resulted in getting high limits to start, and better results with CLI approvals.

Re: How much does your credit line depend on your Income vs History?

Peteyglad — Mon, 02 Nov 2015 21:58:14 GMT

It has a lot to do with score and history more than income in my book. All of my credit lines are on a little over 50k of income. Still not sure what Chase is thinking

Re: How much does your credit line depend on your Income vs History?

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Nov 2015 23:18:18 GMT

Thanks for all the responses, running to grab dinner now so i'll have to read them over in more detail when I'm done... I don't have bad income (when I have work) I'm a freelance visual artist / graphic designer and overall creative guy so WHEN I do have work I'm making at least $50/hour but it's kind of sporadic since sometimes I have it and sometimes I dont... It's hard for me to verify too sometimes so I'm glad I've never been asked yet lol.

Re: How much does your credit line depend on your Income vs History?

Anonymous — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 09:02:39 GMT

It have to do with score history and income... Score is how high ur score is.. If score is strong or weak. Based on what type of loan u have/had... Income is so they can give u high limit.. A cc company isn't going to give u a 75k limit on a card if ur making 75k a year.. Also depend how much u owe

Re: How much does your credit line depend on your Income vs History?

Anonymous — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 10:23:27 GMT

And some companies will give you ridiculous limits if you pump some money through their card... Synch just raised my lowes card to 12k... On reported income of 27k. On a card that was opened after I closed on my house 6/29/15. I started at 1500... put some flooring on it for 1k. Got an increase to do my gutters to 3500. Gutters were 1700. Paid off almost immediately, they raised it to 6k. Just put some carpet for around a grand and today logged in tomake a payment and its showing avail credit of 11k/12k limit.

Hell I wouldn't loan myself 12 grand lol.

Re: How much does your credit line depend on your Income vs History?

vanillabean — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 13:24:29 GMT

Some lenders focus on risk, so they look at the past for a pattern, in other words your history. These companies tend to offer perks rather than rewards. A quieter living.

Some companies focus on income, of times to come, less concerned. They generally offer rewarding savings more so than preventive care perks. A livelier way.

It probably comes as no surprise that people on top may have less of a desire to rock the boat.

Re: How much does your credit line depend on your Income vs History?

takeshi74 — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 13:38:49 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
When I see some of you guys and gals with 6 figures worth of credit on here it makes me wonder if you're all neurosurgeons, lawyers and CEO's or if it's more dependent on your history and score more than your actual income

Both matter. How much is not quite so clear cut but that's in part because each creditor determines what they're willing to extend to a given credit profile and income. Creditors are not all identical.

Not everyone with 6 figures is one of the above. Salaries not only vary by occupation but by industry, region, etc. I make 6 and I'm not any of the above. However, I am in IT for an oil & gas company.

@Anonymous wrote:
I've never been asked to verify income, seems like you can type in any number you want.

You could but that would be fraud. Additionally, I always recommend considering what the creditor will require in case of verification. Always be careful conflating "I have never experienced" and "never happens". Never assume broad trends based on insufficient sample data not matter what the topic. You can find plenty of examples of income verification here if you search.

@Anonymous wrote:
For those who report $20K-50K income on apps and still receive 5 digit trade lines, I don't know how they do it. I app'd for my first Amex card a few months ago, and they granted me $500 (yes, not missing a zero) CL with over $130K reported income.

They have better credit. The aggregated anecdotal evidence seems to suggest that AmEx's credit/income ratio is probably around 40%. If you're only getting a $500 initial limit from any creditor that tends to indicate that there are concerns with your credit profile.

@Anonymous wrote:
I know for a fact my high income has been looked at favorably by creditors that wouldn't have extended me credit otherwise.

How so? You seem to be assigning far too much weight to income IMO. Income plays a part in determining limits but it does not play as much of a role in evaluating risk. That's primarily determined by credit. People often conflate high income and good credit but the two are not mutually inclusive.

@Anonymous wrote:
It's hard for me to verify too sometimes so I'm glad I've never been asked yet lol.

Creditors will tend to look at your track record over the past years in such cases. They do the same sort of thing for people like my wife who derive a majority (or all in her case) of income from commission.

Re: How much does your credit line depend on your Income vs History?

Gmood1 — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 13:42:42 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
When I see some of you guys and gals with 6 figures worth of credit on here it makes me wonder if you're all neurosurgeons, lawyers and CEO's or if it's more dependent on your history and score more than your actual income -- Can anyone (who has great credit history) obtain this much credit or are all of you extremely high paid individuals?

Just curious if you're all highly successful or just managed your credit like a boss, I'd assume a combo of the two.

I've never been asked to verify income, seems like you can type in any number you want.

No it's not all about income. I would assume the geographical area must play some part in this as well. We all have to remember $100K in New York City or Washington D.C. isn't the same $100K in Atlanta,GA. The same $$$ gets you a lot more or less depending on your location. Same with Los Angeles verses rural Illinois.

You don't need a doctor's salary to have a 6 figure amount of credit. With my home, vehicle and credit cards I'm just over $430,000 in credit lines. I don't earn a fourth of that. lol

But I'm good with money and know my budget. Money goes further in my area than it does in most major cities.

On top of that, my credit history hasn't been all that great. It's much better now, but still not without flaws.

To add, if you were a CC underwriter and you had two people with identical scores. Would you give the person with a mortgage more credit or the one who rents an apartment? Just something to think about.

Re: How much does your credit line depend on your Income vs History?

Anonymous — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 14:29:07 GMT

Income is important but not as important as your credit profile. There are lots of people with horrible credit with individual/household income(s) of 100k+ and the banks won't touch them. On the other hand there are folks with individual/household income(s) that range from 30k-50k with excellent credit and banks are falling over themselves to extend them credit.

When applying for credit make sure to report your income accurately and you shouldn't have anything to worry about. As long as you tell the truth, if and when, verification is requested you will be okay.

Re: How much does your credit line depend on your Income vs History?

Anonymous — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 14:36:42 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:
I know for a fact my high income has been looked at favorably by creditors that wouldn't have extended me credit otherwise.

Well said takeshi74!

Re: How much does your credit line depend on your Income vs History?

Themanwhocan — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 15:20:18 GMT

My income is $61k, but I've worked for the same university for 30 years. My credit history is less than 4 years, and the first year of that was one secured credit card.

I think you need to look at many factors, Get a bank card with a large credit limit (my American Express went from $2000 -> $30000). Get several cards to at least $10000 (good for the FICO score). Keep working on SP CLI's and the occasional HP CLI when necessary. Keep a close eye on the FICO score, and if it starts dropping to much, stop applying. Conversely when the FICO score recovers, apply for more cards, but always have a well thought out strategy (does the new card allow SP CLI, is the creditor known for high limits, high cash back, etc).

I see too many people worrying only if their FICO score is high enough to get a particular card. I was concerned about also getting a high starting limit, and also getting good CLI increases. That requires a disciplined approach to card usage and watching both the FICO score and how long its been since you last applied for a few cards.

My FICO scores sure seem much better now that I have a secured $500 installment loan paid down to $200 (I will go lower soon). And I've started getting very good starting limits, though now that my American Express has been at $30000 for over 6 months that probably helps a lot as well. My scores used to drop to low 700's and have a hard time getting to 740. Now 735 - 744 is typical, and with the Installment loan I expect my scores to recover to new highs.

Let me be clear though, I never emphasized getting a lot of credit. Getting high cash back cards was always my primary goal. But that doesn't mean I didn't also ask for SP CLIs. I also don't need a low APR since I expect to pay in full, but I still ask for APR reductions periodically.

Re: How much does your credit line depend on your Income vs History?

Anonymous — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 19:21:05 GMT

@takeshi74 wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:
For those who report $20K-50K income on apps and still receive 5 digit trade lines, I don't know how they do it. I app'd for my first Amex card a few months ago, and they granted me $500 (yes, not missing a zero) CL with over $130K reported income.
They have better credit. The aggregated anecdotal evidence seems to suggest that AmEx's credit/income ratio is probably around 40%. If you're only getting a $500 initial limit from any creditor that tends to indicate that there are concerns with your credit profile.
@Anonymous wrote:
I know for a fact my high income has been looked at favorably by creditors that wouldn't have extended me credit otherwise.
How so? You seem to be assigning far too much weight to income IMO. Income plays a part in determining limits but it does not play as much of a role in evaluating risk. That's primarily determined by credit. People often conflate high income and good credit but the two are not mutually inclusive.

Read my second post in the thread. My point is that Amex obviously doesn't care much about income if you're borderline, whereas it clearly got me into the minimum required limits for certain types of revolving accounts with other creditors with limits 10-18x that of what Amex was willing to extend. I would simply not have been approved if I put down 25K income in those other cases. I would not have been approved as the limit they were willing to extend to me wouldn't have met their minimum opening limit. Period.

There has been a graphic posted several times that roughly lays out underwriting for some random or hypothetical bank's credit card product. The difference in income can be the difference between a 5K starting limit and a 10K starting limit in some cases. That's huge, and it cannot be underplayed. If you have great-to-excellent credit, you can get anything you want, credit-wise, but if you're in the fair-to-good range (say, 650-to-low-700's), income, from my ancecdotal experience (again, read my second post) is a huge make-or-break factor.

Re: How much does your credit line depend on your Income vs History?

Anonymous — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 20:00:59 GMT

Income is definitely a key factor in an application. My partner has the same credit background as I do (i.e. length of credit history, same credit cards, no collections, baddies, no late payments, etc). He makes $60k a year and I make around $25k-$30k. He gets about 3x more of a credit line than I do. I make $25k annual just from my job itself. That's not including my parents allowance for helping out with their business frequently. Unfortunately I won't be able to include that to my income until I am 21 according to the creditors. Disagree with that age requirement, but that's another story. I can see how it would make sense from a financial granting point of view (more income = more likely to have the funds to pay off the debt).

EDIT: I am going to add on and +1 what another user on here said: Banks are more willing to grant you a higher line (regardless of income) if you pump money through the card.

Re: How much does your credit line depend on your Income vs History?

Anonymous — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 20:04:54 GMT

Re: How much does your credit line depend on your Income vs History?

Anonymous — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 22:40:18 GMT

i only make $30k a year and NFCU gave me a $15k LOC for some reason

Re: How much does your credit line depend on your Income vs History?

disdreamin — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 23:16:31 GMT

In my experience AmEx cares very much about income when you start asking for CLI's or new cards.

I got a 4506-t request when I tried for higher limits with them. I did get a modest CLI, but if I want to go any further I'll have to allow them access to my return info. I haven't yet decided if that is something I'm willing to do or not. I didn't pad income (other than using household - SO is an AU on the accounts and has been on one of them for decades).

So yes, I think income does play a role - but it isn't as important as your file, IMO.