topic Re: Signing a Discover Card in Credit Cards

Signing a Discover Card

Anonymous — Mon, 04 Jan 2016 15:06:53 GMT

I had a clerk refuse my Discover card for not being signed.

It wasn't a huge deal, I just switched for a MasterCard, which I had signed. I sign my Visa and Mastercards because it's clearly marked to sign and the cardholder agreements require it.

However, I have not been able to find anything like this for Discover. My It has a lightly Discover logo'd box where a signature could go, but it does not say it's for a signature on the card.

Is it correct that a Discover card should be signed?

Re: Signing a Discover Card

Gunnar419 — Mon, 04 Jan 2016 15:27:04 GMT

I had a clerk at Walmart ask for my ID because my Discover wasn't signed.

Whether Discover is "supposed to be" signed or not and whether these clerks were right in their actions, I sign it just to avoid such occasional troubles. There's no reason not to sign it, is there?

Re: Signing a Discover Card

Anonymous — Mon, 04 Jan 2016 15:32:13 GMT

Yes, it should be signed. It is for your own protection.

Re: Signing a Discover Card

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Jan 2016 04:18:50 GMT

As a recently promoted manager of a big retail store, yes.

We teach our employees that if a customers card is NOT signed and it prompts them up to enter the last four digits (usually an amount over $25), they are to check the customers ID. If the card is signed and we ask for ID, we can technically be fined for breaching merchant agreement, but that's a whole other story that many of your average Joe's don't know about.

From having held about 3,000 credit cards in the past 2.5 years, the safest way to present your card is to have "SEE ID" written on the back. If your card is signed, anyone can go to town with it and not have to present their ID. We see it all the time. Had this one guy come in and purchased about 5 Macbook Pros with a clearly stolen credit card and we had to accept the transaction.... Only because there was a signature on the back of the card..... Of course after the guy left the store we called in a special code and the card came back as fradulent and they caught the guy. But we are only one out of a very few other retailers that actually do this practice.

Re: Signing a Discover Card

core — Tue, 05 Jan 2016 04:34:12 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Had this one guy come in and purchased about 5 Macbook Pros with a clearly stolen credit card and we had to accept the transaction.

What does a clearly stolen card look like?

It used to be that if the card said "Robert" but the customer was wearing high heels and makeup, you had a pretty good idea. That doesn't work nowadays.

Re: Signing a Discover Card

UncleB — Tue, 05 Jan 2016 10:12:36 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
As a recently promoted manager of a big retail store, yes.

We teach our employees that if a customers card is NOT signed and it prompts them up to enter the last four digits (usually an amount over $25), they are to check the customers ID. If the card is signed and we ask for ID, we can technically be fined for breaching merchant agreement, but that's a whole other story that many of your average Joe's don't know about.

From having held about 3,000 credit cards in the past 2.5 years, the safest way to present your card is to have "SEE ID" written on the back. If your card is signed, anyone can go to town with it and not have to present their ID. We see it all the time. Had this one guy come in and purchased about 5 Macbook Pros with a clearly stolen credit card and we had to accept the transaction.... Only because there was a signature on the back of the card..... Of course after the guy left the store we called in a special code and the card came back as fradulent and they caught the guy. But we are only one out of a very few other retailers that actually do this practice.

If a credit card says, "Signature Required - Not Valid Without Signature" - and many of them do, writing 'See ID" or "CID" on the back won't work. My local USPS is particulary 'funny' about this, and I've seen them refuse to take a card more than once (they make you hand it to them after swiping it yourself).

There are numerous threads on this with various opinions, and here's mine: I want to make my purchase with as little "drama" as possible, so my cards are signed.

I have found that arguing the policy only gets the clerk/cashier more 'entrenched', and it's not my goal (or job) to educate various cashiers on the finer points of MC/V/D/Amex merchant contracts.

If there's fraud, that's the credit card issuer's problem - not mine. The credit card issuers are paid BIG bucks to deal with that kind of thing, and since we have the abiliby to view our accounts in real-time it's unlikely a fraudster could get very far, anyway.

Re: Signing a Discover Card

core — Tue, 05 Jan 2016 10:22:07 GMT

@UncleB wrote:
My local USPS is particulary 'funny' about this, and I've seen them refuse to take a card more than once

Mine too. The postmaster lady said she agreed it was silly, but those are the rules from Mount Sinai. In fact the only time I've ever signed one of my cards was when I had to buy a silly book of stamps.

I used to be asked for ID sometimes. More often than not, the cashier never even looked at the card. NOW, though, I don't get what the big deal is. Nobody ever touches my cards; I always swipe them myself. I could be swiping a hotel room key with a cloned magstripe and they'd never even know.

Seems silly to sign them to me, because now if I lose my credit card the crook has an excellent sample of my signature and can duplicate it. If the CC company wants to compare signatures during a dispute, that could turn out quite hairy when the slip appears to show my signature. If my checkbook was in the same place that my signed credit card was, then I'd really be in trouble.

I do get the whole "not valid unless signed" deal. But that means all those electronic gizmos that combine all your cards into one device aren't valid either! Or you might try to argue that since the electronic device doesn't say "not valid", it must be valid. OK fine then, I can simply mark out the "not valid" part from my cards too!

Re: Signing a Discover Card

UncleB — Tue, 05 Jan 2016 10:36:34 GMT

@core wrote:
@UncleB wrote:
My local USPS is particulary 'funny' about this, and I've seen them refuse to take a card more than once
Mine too. The postmaster lady said she agreed it was silly, but those are the rules from Mount Sinai. In fact the only time I've ever signed one of my cards was when I had to buy a silly book of stamps.

I used to be asked for ID sometimes. More often than not, the cashier never even looked at the card. NOW, though, I don't get what the big deal is. Nobody ever touches my cards; I always swipe them myself. I could be swiping a hotel room key with a cloned magstripe and they'd never even know.

Seems silly to sign them to me, because now if I lose my credit card the crook has an excellent sample of my signature and can duplicate it. If the CC company wants to compare signatures during a dispute, that could turn out quite hairy when the slip appears to show my signature. If my checkbook was in the same place that my signed credit card was, then I'd really be in trouble.

I do get the whole "not valid unless signed" deal. But that means all those electronic gizmos that combine all your cards into one device aren't valid either! Or you might try to argue that since the electronic device doesn't say "not valid", it must be valid. OK fine then, I can simply mark out the "not valid" part from my cards too!

All excellent points!

I've yet to understand the point of making me swipe the card myself, then be told that I have to present it with ID to the cashier... just let the cashier swipe it like back in the old days. It's even more annoying when a few feet away there are "self-checkout" registers, where nothing is verified. Obviously if I had just stolen a card that's where I would pay.

I've often wondered how one of those electronic gadgets would be handled at my local USPS... it could be quite entertaining (assuming I'm not in line right behind them!) Of course if the gizmo doesn't work as expected, you still have to pull the card out.

To "keep it simple" I just sign the darn things, and know that if something fraudulent does come up I'm off the hook. I can pay and be out to my car in the parking lot in the time it takes the guy with the unsigned card or "CID" to get a manager... LOL.

Re: Signing a Discover Card

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Jan 2016 11:43:58 GMT

And the signing debate begins again . . .

Re: Signing a Discover Card

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Jan 2016 11:45:42 GMT

I'm not trying to be pedantic about this, but I really don't see anything that indicates signing a Discover card on the card itself or in the card holder agreement (and I could be mising something), besides there being an unmarked box where a signature could go on the card. How do merchants come up with these rules? Going off of rules of other networks and banks and applying them across cards? Their own protection?

Re: Signing a Discover Card

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Jan 2016 11:46:33 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
And the signing debate begins again . . .

When I searched I saw it was debated. I really just wanted to know about Discover specifically as it did not seem to have the same requirements as Visa/MC.

Re: Signing a Discover Card

UncleB — Tue, 05 Jan 2016 11:55:20 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
And the signing debate begins again . . .
When I searched I saw it was debated. I really just wanted to know about Discover specifically as it did not seem to have the same requirements as Visa/MC.

Yeah, there's no real "debate" from me... I even stated such.

I only posted to explain why I do sign my cards... folks are welcome to do what they wish, and I will both respect and support their decision, even if it's different from my own.

Re: Signing a Discover Card

core — Tue, 05 Jan 2016 12:13:08 GMT

@UncleB wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
And the signing debate begins again . . .
Yeah, there's no real "debate" from me... I even stated such.

And the debate begins over whether we're debating.

johnjohn- Why not call Discover and ask them? They just might know since it's their card, their network, their rules. Would be an excellent time to report the merchant too, if they are making stuff up. Not that it will do any good.

Re: Signing a Discover Card

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Jan 2016 12:19:48 GMT

Most cards either have a "not valid unless signed" or "subject to the T&c agreement," both of which tend to require sighing. Discover appears to be the exception, as I can't find any such indications on my or DW's IT.

Re: Signing a Discover Card

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Jan 2016 13:24:32 GMT

@UncleB wrote:

If a credit card says, "Signature Required - Not Valid Without Signature" - and many of them do, writing 'See ID" or "CID" on the back won't work. My local USPS is particulary 'funny' about this, and I've seen them refuse to take a card more than once (they make you hand it to them after swiping it yourself).

There are numerous threads on this with various opinions, and here's mine: I want to make my purchase with as little "drama" as possible, so my cards are signed.

I have found that arguing the policy only gets the clerk/cashier more 'entrenched', and it's not my goal (or job) to educate various cashiers on the finer points of MC/V/D/Amex merchant contracts.

If there's fraud, that's the credit card issuer's problem - not mine. The credit card issuers are paid BIG bucks to deal with that kind of thing, and since we have the abiliby to view our accounts in real-time it's unlikely a fraudster could get very far, anyway.

Interestingly, my USPS always asks for the credit card (they even know me) after I use it in the card terminal. Even for a $6 purchase and enters something from the card (so why have me swipe it?). As others have said, I don't want the "drama" over "see ID" or hold up the twenty people in line explaining the rules of the game to a customer service person who is busy and could not care less.

Re: Signing a Discover Card

takeshi74 — Tue, 05 Jan 2016 13:53:21 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

It wasn't a huge deal, I just switched for a MasterCard, which I had signed. I sign my Visa and Mastercards because it's clearly marked to sign and the cardholder agreements require it.

Several of my Visas and MasterCards are not clearly marked. The signature box is for your signature whether it says so or not.

The whether or not to sign debate is constantly rehashed without any new final verdict but I'd agree with the conclusion from Straight Dope:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2819/is-it-safer-not-to-sign-the-back-of-your-credit-cards

Of course, the fact that merchants are supposed to make you sign the back of the credit card doesn't mean they will. No doubt many will simply ask for ID, which is what you want them to do. It's not like failing to sign the card is against the law; you're liable for purchases you make with your card even if you don't sign it. All I'm saying is, if you don't sign, be prepared to get some grief.

As with any topic, base your decision on your preferences and priorities.

@Spider15 wrote:
Interestingly, my USPS always asks for the credit card (they even know me) after I use it in the card terminal.

I've never been asked. That's anecdotal evidence for you.

Re: Signing a Discover Card

Aahz — Tue, 05 Jan 2016 18:40:20 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I had a clerk refuse my Discover card for not being signed.

It wasn't a huge deal, I just switched for a MasterCard, which I had signed. I sign my Visa and Mastercards because it's clearly marked to sign and the cardholder agreements require it.

However, I have not been able to find anything like this for Discover. My It has a lightly Discover logo'd box where a signature could go, but it does not say it's for a signature on the card.

Is it correct that a Discover card should be signed?

Regardless of what Discover has to say about it, any merchant is free to set their own rules regarding whether or not they require a card be signed, or if they want to ask for ID from a customer. So, the answer to your question is: yes, at that store, it is correct that your DIscover card should be signed.

And yes, I'm fully aware of the policies in V/MC merchant agreements. However that agreement is between the merchant and V/MC and has nothing to do with the consumer. Merchants are free to violate it all they like and their credit card processor is free to cancel their contract - or not.