topic Re: What to do with amex cards that are backdated in Credit Cards

What to do with amex cards that are backdated

darkfrosty — Mon, 07 Mar 2016 16:06:56 GMT

I have two amex cards that are backdated to 99. ED and a PRG which I downgraded from Platinum. Im not really into MR points but got them because of the backdating. The fee for PRG wont hit until next feb but im not sure I even want to keep it anymore. I put all of my spend on chase UR cards. I would keep the ED I guess because of the CL I have on it even though I havent used it in a long time. Is there any downside to cancelling the PRG ? I mean it is backdated and Amex no longer does that?

Re: What to do with amex cards that are backdated

OmarGB9 — Mon, 07 Mar 2016 16:10:38 GMT

The only downside is it would stop growing in age. However, it would still show on your reports for the next 10 years, at which point it would fall off.

Re: What to do with amex cards that are backdated

takeshi74 — Mon, 07 Mar 2016 16:17:57 GMT

You call whether or not the backdating itself makes it worth keeping open. Consider the info in the Closing Credit Cards thread linked in the Helpful Threads sticky. The utilization info isn't relevant to your charge cards but the AAoA info is relevant.

If you want to keep it but don't want to pay that much of an AF see if you can PC it to a card with a lower AF. See if you can PC to the sernior green.

@OmarGB9 wrote:
The only downside is it would stop growing in age.

Account age is determined based on current date minus open date for both open and closed accounts on a report. Closed accounts do not cease to age.

Re: What to do with amex cards that are backdated

Anonymous — Mon, 07 Mar 2016 19:46:33 GMT

Do charge cards and credit cards carry the same weight on credit scoring?

Re: What to do with amex cards that are backdated

FinStar — Mon, 07 Mar 2016 19:57:21 GMT

@takeshi74 wrote:
You call whether or not the backdating itself makes it worth keeping open. Consider the info in the Closing Credit Cards thread linked in the Helpful Threads sticky. The utilization info isn't relevant to your charge cards but the AAoA info is relevant.

If you want to keep it but don't want to pay that much of an AF see if you can PC it to a card with a lower AF. See if you can PC to the sernior green.

@OmarGB9 wrote:
The only downside is it would stop growing in age.
Account age is determined based on current date minus open date for both open and closed accounts on a report. Closed accounts do not cease to age.

Unfortunately, the Senior Green (PC) option isn't available anymore.

OP, if you didn't or don't use the PRG as much, it's doubtful they would give you much of any retention or MR incentive to keep it active. You'd have to decide whether closing it makes sense if you don't want to pay the AF. It will remain a positive tradeline on your CRs for another ~10 years (give or take). It would be difficult to gauge what scoring impact (if any) it would have on your profile given the AAoA at that point. Anything can happen in that span of time.

Re: What to do with amex cards that are backdated

Revelate — Mon, 07 Mar 2016 20:00:53 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Do charge cards and credit cards carry the same weight on credit scoring?

For AAOA yes.

For other calculations it's more complex dependant on specific model.

Re: What to do with amex cards that are backdated

Anonymous — Mon, 07 Mar 2016 20:41:09 GMT

@Revelate wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Do charge cards and credit cards carry the same weight on credit scoring?
For AAOA yes.

For other calculations it's more complex dependant on specific model.

What is the OPs credit profile, AAOA, inqs, utilization, etc, so we can get a better picture here.

Re: What to do with amex cards that are backdated

kdm31091 — Mon, 07 Mar 2016 20:45:31 GMT

I never advocate keeping cards just to keep them. AAOA is important, but, at the same time, it's only 15 percent of scoring. The accounts, even if closed, will continue to age for ten years.

Realistically, 10 years is a long time so it's hard to say what impact you'll see, if any. If you aren't going to use the cards, I'd probably just move on and close them. It's not like you don't have other cards.

Re: What to do with amex cards that are backdated

Revelate — Mon, 07 Mar 2016 20:52:34 GMT

@kdm31091 wrote:
I never advocate keeping cards just to keep them. AAOA is important, but, at the same time, it's only 15 percent of scoring. The accounts, even if closed, will continue to age for ten years.

Realistically, 10 years is a long time so it's hard to say what impact you'll see, if any. If you aren't going to use the cards, I'd probably just move on and close them. It's not like you don't have other cards.

To add to that, I think anyone with a clean sheet and decent tradelines and 10ish year AAOA can make an 800 on any relevant FICO model and almost assuredly Vantage 3 (if I can get 791 there at 2 years AAOA with my file even...) closing an unused credit card is absolutely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things if it doesn't materially change your revolving utilization now. Might make a difference on bucketing if it were the oldest card but with two cards backdated there, no big deal in this case.

Think with more and more models moving towards giving more weight to recent data, 10 years from now when the closed PRG would be gone would be swabo effect, and additional AAOA (diminishing returns) at the expense of $1950 over those 10 years (not including offers which is how I EASILY justify keeping my Zync open) doesn't seem to make a great deal of sense.

Re: What to do with amex cards that are backdated

Anonymous — Mon, 07 Mar 2016 21:04:23 GMT

@Revelate wrote:
@kdm31091 wrote:
I never advocate keeping cards just to keep them. AAOA is important, but, at the same time, it's only 15 percent of scoring. The accounts, even if closed, will continue to age for ten years.

Realistically, 10 years is a long time so it's hard to say what impact you'll see, if any. If you aren't going to use the cards, I'd probably just move on and close them. It's not like you don't have other cards.
To add to that, I think anyone with a clean sheet and decent tradelines and 10ish year AAOA can make an 800 on any relevant FICO model and almost assuredly Vantage 3 (if I can get 791 there at 2 years AAOA with my file even...) closing an unused credit card is absolutely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things if it doesn't materially change your revolving utilization now. Might make a difference on bucketing if it were the oldest card but with two cards backdated there, no big deal in this case.

Think with more and more models moving towards giving more weight to recent data, 10 years from now when the closed PRG would be gone would be swabo effect, and additional AAOA (diminishing returns) at the expense of $1950 over those 10 years (not including offers which is how I EASILY justify keeping my Zync open) doesn't seem to make a great deal of sense.

You don't need anywhere near a 10 year AAoA to hit the 800 range. Mine is 4 years and, before my installment loan reported paid, my TU was at 821 and EX at 804. I should note, though, that my oldest account reporting is very old.

Re: What to do with amex cards that are backdated

Revelate — Mon, 07 Mar 2016 21:13:41 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
@kdm31091 wrote:
I never advocate keeping cards just to keep them. AAOA is important, but, at the same time, it's only 15 percent of scoring. The accounts, even if closed, will continue to age for ten years.

Realistically, 10 years is a long time so it's hard to say what impact you'll see, if any. If you aren't going to use the cards, I'd probably just move on and close them. It's not like you don't have other cards.
To add to that, I think anyone with a clean sheet and decent tradelines and 10ish year AAOA can make an 800 on any relevant FICO model and almost assuredly Vantage 3 (if I can get 791 there at 2 years AAOA with my file even...) closing an unused credit card is absolutely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things if it doesn't materially change your revolving utilization now. Might make a difference on bucketing if it were the oldest card but with two cards backdated there, no big deal in this case.

Think with more and more models moving towards giving more weight to recent data, 10 years from now when the closed PRG would be gone would be swabo effect, and additional AAOA (diminishing returns) at the expense of $1950 over those 10 years (not including offers which is how I EASILY justify keeping my Zync open) doesn't seem to make a great deal of sense.
You don't need anywhere near a 10 year AAoA to hit the 800 range. Mine is 4 years and, before my installment loan reported paid, my TU was at 821 and EX at 804. I should note, though, that my oldest account reporting is very old.

Yeah I was just throwing that out as we're talking 10 year time frame with an account dropping off the report at that point. It's unlikely anyone is going to be beating their AAOA down as much in the future once they get to near credit report complete, very few exceptions to that here and they just leverage their credit report for sport at this point as near as I can tell heh.

Before I hosed up my installment ratio by obtaining a mortgage, I thought I had a shot at 800 on FICO 8 when I'm clean in late December 2017 where I would've had a 4 year AAOA too. I would've been happy on EQ Beacon 5.0 with anything above a 760 at that point... now it looks like I'll get my benchmark on that score by then, but I'll be lucky to even crack 770 on FICO 8. My oldest account also isn't as good as yours .

Re: What to do with amex cards that are backdated

Anonymous — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 00:48:59 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Do charge cards and credit cards carry the same weight on credit scoring?

Charge cards can help your length of accounts and payment history if kept in good standing. Only difference is the utilization wouldn't factor into the scoring pie like a regular credit card does. It can still help your credit profile imo as those two factors of length of credit and payment history makes up a good portion of your score.

Re: What to do with amex cards that are backdated

darkfrosty — Thu, 10 Mar 2016 20:14:12 GMT

Sorry I didnt respond sooner. Basically I dont use my amex cards anymore I mainly use chase cards because I dont really value MR points. I was actually considering cancelling both the PRG and ED but I think I should leave one open.

My credit scores are all in the upper 780+ .. My oldest account is like 15 years and my AAoA is like 9 years or so.

Hmm maybe I should close the ED and keep the charge card open .. decisions decisions. I was planning on getting the business versions of the charge cards eventually though. I really dont like only carrying cards from one lender just in case something happens.

Re: What to do with amex cards that are backdated

Anonymous — Thu, 10 Mar 2016 20:16:10 GMT

I've never really understood the big deal between backdating and member since with Amex. Someone want to clue me in?

Re: What to do with amex cards that are backdated

myjourney — Thu, 10 Mar 2016 20:34:31 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I've never really understood the big deal between backdating and member since with Amex. Someone want to clue me in?

Backdating allowed for no hit in AAoA when used in conjunction with app spree or just a new app

Example apply for 2 Chase cards 1 Citi in 2014

Then app and get an Amex which would be backdated to 2000

The 2000 history would show up on the new card even tho the card was approved in 2014

Thus offsetting any ding in AAoA

Membersince date really IMHO means nothing now that backdating is gone

It was used for say... the card I app'ed for in 2014 and the history didn't backdate to 2000

Then I could call in and say hey my membersince date is not correct on my new card

Thus triggering the old history being applied to the new card when they update

Now it's just cosmetics and a matter of preference IMHO

P.S.

After reading this I'm sad and depressed

Oh Lord no more backdating

Sniff sniff sniff

Re: What to do with amex cards that are backdated

darkfrosty — Thu, 10 Mar 2016 21:33:03 GMT

Hmm now im not sure what to do. I had called amex asking when my annual fee was going to hit and they told me not until next year because i downgraded from platinum to PRG .. but now I just got notified that $195 fee just hit .. so im thinking i will cancel it. I dont use it much at all to cover that fee. Sucks I will lose that card that is backdated to 99. Still will have my ED which is backdated.

Re: What to do with amex cards that are backdated

SouthJamaica — Thu, 10 Mar 2016 21:47:30 GMT

@darkfrosty wrote:
I have two amex cards that are backdated to 99. ED and a PRG which I downgraded from Platinum. Im not really into MR points but got them because of the backdating. The fee for PRG wont hit until next feb but im not sure I even want to keep it anymore. I put all of my spend on chase UR cards. I would keep the ED I guess because of the CL I have on it even though I havent used it in a long time. Is there any downside to cancelling the PRG ? I mean it is backdated and Amex no longer does that?

Do. Not. Cancel.

Re: What to do with amex cards that are backdated

Anonymous — Thu, 10 Mar 2016 21:47:52 GMT

The loss of backdating on reports was sad...I only learned of it after applying for the BCE last week. Not that I was around for long...MSD 2005 and closed that account in 09 or so.

But OP...AAoA shouldn't be a major concern if you don't actually use the charge card and don't want to just eat the AF each year...like others have said.

I don't travel much and the Amex rewards don't do much for me either...so the charge card options that were once so appealing have lost their lustre. However, I do want to keep an Amex around so the BCE seemed like a decent option.

So if I were you...keep the ED...dump the PRG

Re: What to do with amex cards that are backdated

Anonymous — Thu, 10 Mar 2016 21:58:33 GMT

@darkfrosty wrote:
I have two amex cards that are backdated to 99. ED and a PRG which I downgraded from Platinum. Im not really into MR points but got them because of the backdating. The fee for PRG wont hit until next feb but im not sure I even want to keep it anymore. I put all of my spend on chase UR cards. I would keep the ED I guess because of the CL I have on it even though I havent used it in a long time. Is there any downside to cancelling the PRG ? I mean it is backdated and Amex no longer does that?

If you only have 5 cards total, do not close anything. I believe you can further downgrade your PRG to the green card which has a $95 AF. You may even get them to waive that fee as part of a retention offer. As was said, if you only have the cards in your sig, DO NOT CANCEL.

Re: What to do with amex cards that are backdated

myjourney — Thu, 10 Mar 2016 21:58:55 GMT

@darkfrosty wrote:
Hmm now im not sure what to do. I had called amex asking when my annual fee was going to hit and they told me not until next year because i downgraded from platinum to PRG .. but now I just got notified that $195 fee just hit .. so im thinking i will cancel it. I dont use it much at all to cover that fee. Sucks I will lose that card that is backdated to 99. Still will have my ED which is backdated.

Downgrade to green

With Amex offers you may have a better chance of offsetting the AF since you don't use it much anyway and keep the TL as well

However if you can't make that work no use in paying AF for a card that serves absolutely 0 purpose