topic Re: Justifying a CLI with low usage? in Credit Cards

Justifying a CLI with low usage?

masscredit — Fri, 29 Apr 2016 15:30:33 GMT

Many of us want to see our limits keep increasing over time and some credit card companies are known for being generous. But what about when you have a decent limit (say $10K-$15K) but don't use the card that much? You might run a few hundred through it once in awhile. I know they don't ask why you want an increase but is the person on the other end of the line looking at the screen and wondering why someone wants a higher limit when they don't even use 10% of what they have? Or do they just plug in the numbers and give a "yes" or "no" based on your credit?

Re: Justifying a CLI with low usage?

Anonymous — Fri, 29 Apr 2016 16:14:43 GMT

The people on the other side of the screen are just doing their job and I'm sure they have all the statistics on an individual account. I have card with $9,000 limit and lifetime spend only two grand. lifetime spend,
Not one month.

If I was running show I would give out big limits sure, then increase sp after granting them to see what they are up to. Throttling down as necessary.

Re: Justifying a CLI with low usage?

Anonymous — Fri, 29 Apr 2016 16:26:39 GMT

@masscredit wrote:
Many of us want to see our limits keep increasing over time and some credit card companies are known for being generous. But what about when you have a decent limit (say $10K-$15K) but don't use the card that much? You might run a few hundred through it once in awhile. I know they don't ask why you want an increase but is the person on the other end of the line looking at the screen and wondering why someone wants a higher limit when they don't even use 10% of what they have? Or do they just plug in the numbers and give a "yes" or "no" based on your credit?

I think it depends if a computer or a real person is doing the evaluation. If it's a computer analysis program, consistent low utilization is a marker of responsible credit use, which generally would lead to credit limit increases being approved. If it's a real person making the decisions, they're much more likely to ask questions before increasing a limit.

Re: Justifying a CLI with low usage?

Anonymous — Fri, 29 Apr 2016 20:40:30 GMT

I have to agree with other posters. Its a computer that makes the decision. My cabelas card, Ive had it for years and maybe put $200 on it. Last payment was 2013. But I put in a CLI last month and it went from $6k to $18k. So its really not about use.

Re: Justifying a CLI with low usage?

Kevin86475391 — Fri, 29 Apr 2016 21:14:56 GMT

This is a very relevant topic for me. I have 7 cards that I use to maximize rewards and thus spread my spending out. My cards rarely reach more than 2 or 3% utilization before I PIF.

Anecdotally I haven't ever had an issue with a lender saying something like, "Why would we increase your limit when 95%+ of it is always unusued?" But at the same time I couldn't really fault them if they did. On the one hand I'm a low risk for defaulting, but on the other hand I'm sure they limit their total exposure and could perhaps be giving half or more of my limit to someone else who might use it more instead of tying it up with me.

Regarding human vs computer analysts, I would strongly suspect that their algorithms are sophesticated enough to know the difference between someone who has a 1% utilization yet cycles thousands through their card every month and PIFs vs someone who has a 1% utilization because they went to McDonald's once during the cycle and haven't paid it off yet. If their internal scoring models and automated systems can't at least detect basic usage and only use a raw utilization percentage that's pretty pathetic.

Re: Justifying a CLI with low usage?

Anonymous — Fri, 29 Apr 2016 21:56:04 GMT

but is the person on the other end of the line looking at the screen and wondering why someone wants a higher limit when they don't even use 10% of what they have?

In the case of Discover, I think the answer is no. Until this month, (had extra high spend), I was averaging less than $120 a month in spending. My last two CLI's were both two day reviews and one was $4500 and the other $5000. The card is now at $21,250.

Re: Justifying a CLI with low usage?

masscredit — Fri, 29 Apr 2016 22:14:12 GMT

I thought a big part of receiving a CLI is usage. I try to spread mine out between all of my cards and focus on the ones that I'd really like to see grow.

When it comes to manual reviews by a human, how are they different from a computer spitting out an answer? Do they take certain things into consideration? It took about 4-5 minutes when I called to have my Walmart card reviewed for an increase this week. I was wondering if the person was looking over my report and usage before providing an answer.

Re: Justifying a CLI with low usage?

Anonymous — Fri, 29 Apr 2016 22:26:32 GMT

@masscredit wrote:
I thought a big part of receiving a CLI is usage. I try to spread mine out between all of my cards and focus on the ones that I'd really like to see grow.

When it comes to manual reviews by a human, how are they different from a computer spitting out an answer? Do they take certain things into consideration? It took about 4-5 minutes when I called to have my Walmart card reviewed for an increase this week. I was wondering if the person was looking over my report and usage before providing an answer.

They were pulling a soft or hard credit check. I think usage (may) contribute to the issuer increasing the line vs you requesting it. I was maxing out my $500 Cap one card, before they randomly gave me $5k. But then I had to request the increase to $7k.

Re: Justifying a CLI with low usage?

ddemari — Fri, 29 Apr 2016 23:57:30 GMT

OP, i like your thread because I have felt that same a lot in the past. I really only ever ponder that now If I were doing a CLI recon with someone like BOA or barclays because they will mention usually when they are telling you what to do for nex time, like use more of the card and pay it off in full and you might qualify for a limit in line with your spending.

Re: Justifying a CLI with low usage?

masscredit — Sat, 30 Apr 2016 02:53:31 GMT

@ddemari wrote:
OP, i like your thread because I have felt that same a lot in the past. I really only ever ponder that now If I were doing a CLI recon with someone like BOA or barclays because they will mention usually when they are telling you what to do for nex time, like use more of the card and pay it off in full and you might qualify for a limit in line with your spending.

Details like that can be very helpful to the consumer. That way we know what needs to be done for next time.

I've learned that usage doesn't matter as much as I thought it does and to shoot for the stars if they ask how much I'm looking for. I do that sometimes. Other times I ask for a modest increase because I think it will be more likely to be approved. They will usually give a counter offer if they can't approve that amount so it doesn't hurt to ask. The answer is usually "no" if you don't try.

Re: Justifying a CLI with low usage?

NRB525 — Sat, 30 Apr 2016 04:21:27 GMT

@masscredit wrote:
@ddemari wrote:
OP, i like your thread because I have felt that same a lot in the past. I really only ever ponder that now If I were doing a CLI recon with someone like BOA or barclays because they will mention usually when they are telling you what to do for nex time, like use more of the card and pay it off in full and you might qualify for a limit in line with your spending.
Details like that can be very helpful to the consumer. That way we know what needs to be done for next time.

I've learned that usage doesn't matter as much as I thought it does and to shoot for the stars if they ask how much I'm looking for. I do that sometimes. Other times I ask for a modest increase because I think it will be more likely to be approved. They will usually give a counter offer if they can't approve that amount so it doesn't hurt to ask. The answer is usually "no" if you don't try.

You should be a little more specific, regarding which lenders you are asking the CLI from, vs "all lenders" because all lenders are not the same.

Your Capital One cards will reach a ceiling. Then CapOne will start sending you CLI Decline reasons letters like "not enough usage" "payments too small", but they won't give you a CLI after a certain level, full stop.

Barclays likely can get you a SP CLI.

Merrick, Walmart, and JCP, ok, they look like they're about there.

Lowes gets crazy sometimes, but you are almost maxed on that one as well.

Other banks will have slightly different pathways to get to CLI. Usage isn't mandatory, though on a low limit card high utilization percentages are unavoidable. HP are common on several of those other banks, SP CLI are extremely rare. AMEX and Discover SP and relatively easy CLI almost without regard to usage.

Re: Justifying a CLI with low usage?

masscredit — Sat, 30 Apr 2016 13:41:22 GMT

@NRB525 wrote:
@masscredit wrote:
@ddemari wrote:
OP, i like your thread because I have felt that same a lot in the past. I really only ever ponder that now If I were doing a CLI recon with someone like BOA or barclays because they will mention usually when they are telling you what to do for nex time, like use more of the card and pay it off in full and you might qualify for a limit in line with your spending.
Details like that can be very helpful to the consumer. That way we know what needs to be done for next time.

I've learned that usage doesn't matter as much as I thought it does and to shoot for the stars if they ask how much I'm looking for. I do that sometimes. Other times I ask for a modest increase because I think it will be more likely to be approved. They will usually give a counter offer if they can't approve that amount so it doesn't hurt to ask. The answer is usually "no" if you don't try.
You should be a little more specific, regarding which lenders you are asking the CLI from, vs "all lenders" because all lenders are not the same.

Your Capital One cards will reach a ceiling. Then CapOne will start sending you CLI Decline reasons letters like "not enough usage" "payments too small", but they won't give you a CLI after a certain level, full stop.
Barclays likely can get you a SP CLI.
Merrick, Walmart, and JCP, ok, they look like they're about there.
Lowes gets crazy sometimes, but you are almost maxed on that one as well.

Other banks will have slightly different pathways to get to CLI. Usage isn't mandatory, though on a low limit card high utilization percentages are unavoidable. HP are common on several of those other banks, SP CLI are extremely rare. AMEX and Discover SP and relatively easy CLI almost without regard to usage.

It was pretty much a general question. Looking at my cards, most of the Cap1 cards get a lot of use. Especally the two that I was approved for in January. They seem to be pretty good with CLIs. $1K-$3K every 6 months.

Walmart, JCP and Lowes all get some use and have been growing nicely. I'm going to see how far I can take Lowes. There are months when they don't get any use and months when I'll run a few hundred though them.

My Barclay Rewards is sometimes my "go to" card for a few months then I switch over to a Cap 1 card. The Barclay Apple card gets some use. I favor that when I make purchases from Apple. They were growing but I haven't seen much from them in the last year.

And then there is Merrick. That's an old rebuilder card that probably won't grow. I've pushed it very close to the limit and gave it decent use to see if they would give me an increase but it's stuck at $1600. It now spends most of it's time in my car. It's there in case I leave the house without my wallet. I did that once so now I'm prepared.

What is Cap 1's ceiling? I'm going to guess it's around $25K? I'd like to get their combination feature to work for me so I can combine some of my cards and get a limit close to $50K. That's probably the only way a person can get a very high limit with them.

Re: Justifying a CLI with low usage?

NRB525 — Sat, 30 Apr 2016 15:28:55 GMT

The Capital One Ceiling reference is for each particular card. There seems to be a trend where cards issued at a certain score are assigned a possible maximum credit line, and don't go above that. The line is not defined, it is not a specific number everywhere and always, but the cardholder can try many times to get a CLI, get all manner of senseless reason letters, and not get a CLI. Then app a new Capital One card, and get a CL that is multiples of the existing card credit line.

My $10k CapOne, I tried mulitiple times in 2014 and 2015 to get a CLI. Loaded BT on it to try to show balance usage. Made payments to rapidly pay down those BT items. "Usage is not high enough", "Payments are not large enough". Apped the Venture and got a $30k CL instapproval.

Re: Justifying a CLI with low usage?

Anonymous — Sat, 30 Apr 2016 16:46:51 GMT

What do you think Capital One's ceiling is? I am at $29,450 with them, but want my QS1 increased still...

If this is relavent:

QS 10k

Venture 15k

QS1 4.25k

Re: Justifying a CLI with low usage?

Anonymous — Sat, 30 Apr 2016 16:51:21 GMT

I just rotate my usage to whichever card I am working on an increase next. Worked for amex, citi, and BOA for me. Cap1, not so much! Then again it started out with a 1k limit in credit steps and is at 25.24% apr.

discover I have experienced they dont really care much about extreme usage. They do like BTs though! Same with citi and boa.

Re: Justifying a CLI with low usage?

masscredit — Sat, 30 Apr 2016 20:02:01 GMT

@NRB525 wrote:
The Capital One Ceiling reference is for each particular card. There seems to be a trend where cards issued at a certain score are assigned a possible maximum credit line, and don't go above that. The line is not defined, it is not a specific number everywhere and always, but the cardholder can try many times to get a CLI, get all manner of senseless reason letters, and not get a CLI. Then app a new Capital One card, and get a CL that is multiples of the existing card credit line.

My $10k CapOne, I tried mulitiple times in 2014 and 2015 to get a CLI. Loaded BT on it to try to show balance usage. Made payments to rapidly pay down those BT items. "Usage is not high enough", "Payments are not large enough". Apped the Venture and got a $30k CL instapproval.

I've noticed that with my older Cap 1 cards. Their limits have slowly increased while the new ones have started higher than those limits. If I use my other cards during the month, I'll BT to a Cap 1 card to show greater usage all around. Most of them have no fee BTs. I don't do it if there is a fee.

Re: Justifying a CLI with low usage?

Anonymous — Sat, 30 Apr 2016 20:58:40 GMT

@masscredit wrote:
When it comes to manual reviews by a human, how are they different from a computer spitting out an answer?

They are different because humans have emotions... A computer does not care, if you meet guidelines, you meet them. A human when given choices can let their emotions play into the decision. Unless the human is told they cannot deny someone if xxx is met then there is always the possibility of "They do not need anymore credit" where a computer does not think like that.

With that said, if the computer is programmed to take "need" into account then it all depends on the lenders programming of what "need" is

Re: Justifying a CLI with low usage?

red259 — Sat, 30 Apr 2016 21:06:42 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@masscredit wrote:
Many of us want to see our limits keep increasing over time and some credit card companies are known for being generous. But what about when you have a decent limit (say $10K-$15K) but don't use the card that much? You might run a few hundred through it once in awhile. I know they don't ask why you want an increase but is the person on the other end of the line looking at the screen and wondering why someone wants a higher limit when they don't even use 10% of what they have? Or do they just plug in the numbers and give a "yes" or "no" based on your credit?
I think it depends if a computer or a real person is doing the evaluation. If it's a computer analysis program, consistent low utilization is a marker of responsible credit use, which generally would lead to credit limit increases being approved. If it's a real person making the decisions, they're much more likely to ask questions before increasing a limit.

Sometimes this is true, but I have seen computers like cap 1 where I am pretty sure it looks at how much credit I have been using and denys me based on that, but when I am using a lot of credit I get approved.

Re: Justifying a CLI with low usage?

UncleB — Sat, 30 Apr 2016 22:20:15 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
What do you think Capital One's ceiling is? I am at $29,450 with them, but want my QS1 increased still...

If this is relavent:
QS 10k
Venture 15k
QS1 4.25k

To give you a direct answer, IIRC I've seen an approval for a new account with a credit line of $60k. I know for certain I've seen more than one approval for a new account with a SL of $50k... others might have seen larger. Note that these are new account approvals, not a combination of two existing accounts.

Capital One can be very generous if the overall profile supports it. Also note that for the really big approvals it's not unheard of for Capital One to require verification before final approval, although I believe at least one of the $50k approvals might (?) have been an auto-approval, so if you're a 'high-roller' YMMV.

Capital One seems to be one of the few issuers that makes an effort to have something for everybody.

Edited to add: Disclaimer - I realize not everyone's a fan, I'm just stating that product-wise they cover all markets.

Re: Justifying a CLI with low usage?

Anonymous — Sun, 01 May 2016 01:40:55 GMT

@NRB525 wrote:
The Capital One Ceiling reference is for each particular card. There seems to be a trend where cards issued at a certain score are assigned a possible maximum credit line, and don't go above that. The line is not defined, it is not a specific number everywhere and always, but the cardholder can try many times to get a CLI, get all manner of senseless reason letters, and not get a CLI. Then app a new Capital One card, and get a CL that is multiples of the existing card credit line.

My $10k CapOne, I tried mulitiple times in 2014 and 2015 to get a CLI. Loaded BT on it to try to show balance usage. Made payments to rapidly pay down those BT items. "Usage is not high enough", "Payments are not large enough". Apped the Venture and got a $30k CL instapproval.

Wow.... this is good to know.