topic Re: Amex "total assets" help in Credit Cards

Amex "total assets" help

Anonymous — Tue, 19 Jul 2016 12:14:48 GMT

Question for Amex card holders!

I can't really find an answer to this one. So if you go under account services/income profile/your income information there are two fields to fill in. "Total Annual Income" and "Total Assets." Income is pretty straight forward and I've seen a thousand discussions on this forum regarding income, but never any discussing the assets side of it.

When you click on the "info" icon next to where it asks for Total Assets, it says "Include all financial assets available to you. If under age 21, include only your assets. Assets include savings accounts, checking accounts, retirement accounts and other investments (stocks, bonds, brokerage accounts etc)."

This seems pretty vague to me. Assets to me means either cash or anything you can liquidate for cash. So if you own a $250k home that's 100% paid off (ie you can sell it and walk away with $250k) would you include that $250k as part of your assets? I would think so. Just curious how all of you filled in this field, what you considered when doing it, etc.

While income can certainly be verified fairly easily, I would think verifying total assets for someone like Amex would be next to impossible as I have trouble myself even coming up with a number based on what I choose to include.

I would also think that compared to "Total Annual Income" that the "Total Assets" category is less significant to Amex when using that information to determine potential CLIs and such, but I'd like to hear your opinions on that as well.

Re: Amex "total assets" help

DrZoidberg — Tue, 19 Jul 2016 12:17:08 GMT

Total financial assets does not include your home or (assets - liabilities) it's strictly liuiqdable assets. Like stocks, bonds, retirement, savings, cash, etc..

Re: Amex "total assets" help

Anonymous — Tue, 19 Jul 2016 12:50:11 GMT

Interesting how a paid off home wouldn't be included. But, if you sold it and put the money in the bank it then is included. That's kind of odd.

What about the part where it says if you are under 21 only include your own assets? That implies if you are OVER 21 that you could include yours and possibly others? Not really sure what that's getting at there.

Re: Amex "total assets" help

Anonymous — Tue, 19 Jul 2016 12:55:05 GMT

I have one car that is paid for and was told by another creditor that I could include it in their total liquid assets line. Just a data point.

Re: Amex "total assets" help

DrZoidberg — Tue, 19 Jul 2016 13:25:32 GMT

You can count whatever you want. It's your profile. In the financial industry cars, property and commodities are not considered financial assets. Could you Count your car? Sure, you would have to deduct depreciation. Could you count your house? Sure, but what is the value? How fast can you liquidate?

Re: Amex "total assets" help

sccredit — Tue, 19 Jul 2016 13:35:00 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Interesting how a paid off home wouldn't be included. But, if you sold it and put the money in the bank it then is included. That's kind of odd.

What about the part where it says if you are under 21 only include your own assets? That implies if you are OVER 21 that you could include yours and possibly others? Not really sure what that's getting at there.

This is basically telling anyone under 21 that they cannot use mommy and daddy's assets.

Re: Amex "total assets" help

kdm31091 — Tue, 19 Jul 2016 13:39:59 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Question for Amex card holders!

I can't really find an answer to this one. So if you go under account services/income profile/your income information there are two fields to fill in. "Total Annual Income" and "Total Assets." Income is pretty straight forward and I've seen a thousand discussions on this forum regarding income, but never any discussing the assets side of it.

When you click on the "info" icon next to where it asks for Total Assets, it says "Include all financial assets available to you. If under age 21, include only your assets. Assets include savings accounts, checking accounts, retirement accounts and other investments (stocks, bonds, brokerage accounts etc)."

This seems pretty vague to me. Assets to me means either cash or anything you can liquidate for cash. So if you own a $250k home that's 100% paid off (ie you can sell it and walk away with $250k) would you include that $250k as part of your assets? I would think so. Just curious how all of you filled in this field, what you considered when doing it, etc.

While income can certainly be verified fairly easily, I would think verifying total assets for someone like Amex would be next to impossible as I have trouble myself even coming up with a number based on what I choose to include.

I would also think that compared to "Total Annual Income" that the "Total Assets" category is less significant to Amex when using that information to determine potential CLIs and such, but I'd like to hear your opinions on that as well.

A home is not so much a liquid asset. Yes you can sell it and potentially make the money but it's not guaranteed for any specific amount and it could take months to sell.

Don't overthink this. Liquid assets are simply monies that you have ready access to and can quickly produce. Savings, checking, investments (albeit may have to take a fee to withdraw them), etc. Homes and cars are assets in a sense, but they are not really the kind of liquid assets a credit card company would take into consideration.

You are free to put down whatever you want, but I wouldn't recommend it. Amex may not be able to verify your claims one way or another, but since most people probably aren't putting "250k" under assets, you will be standing out and probably not in a good sense.

Re: Amex "total assets" help

Anonymous — Tue, 19 Jul 2016 14:17:30 GMT

@kdm31091 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Question for Amex card holders!

I can't really find an answer to this one. So if you go under account services/income profile/your income information there are two fields to fill in. "Total Annual Income" and "Total Assets." Income is pretty straight forward and I've seen a thousand discussions on this forum regarding income, but never any discussing the assets side of it.

When you click on the "info" icon next to where it asks for Total Assets, it says "Include all financial assets available to you. If under age 21, include only your assets. Assets include savings accounts, checking accounts, retirement accounts and other investments (stocks, bonds, brokerage accounts etc)."

This seems pretty vague to me. Assets to me means either cash or anything you can liquidate for cash. So if you own a $250k home that's 100% paid off (ie you can sell it and walk away with $250k) would you include that $250k as part of your assets? I would think so. Just curious how all of you filled in this field, what you considered when doing it, etc.

While income can certainly be verified fairly easily, I would think verifying total assets for someone like Amex would be next to impossible as I have trouble myself even coming up with a number based on what I choose to include.

I would also think that compared to "Total Annual Income" that the "Total Assets" category is less significant to Amex when using that information to determine potential CLIs and such, but I'd like to hear your opinions on that as well.
A home is not so much a liquid asset. Yes you can sell it and potentially make the money but it's not guaranteed for any specific amount and it could take months to sell.

Don't overthink this. Liquid assets are simply monies that you have ready access to and can quickly produce. Savings, checking, investments (albeit may have to take a fee to withdraw them), etc. Homes and cars are assets in a sense, but they are not really the kind of liquid assets a credit card company would take into consideration.

You are free to put down whatever you want, but I wouldn't recommend it. Amex may not be able to verify your claims one way or another, but since most people probably aren't putting "250k" under assets, you will be standing out and probably not in a good sense.

I seriously doubt Amex takes note of $250K in assets as standing out. That isn't that high and a lot of people have considerably more than that. Maybe if you put $2.5 million they might notice if you put $35Kas your income but who knows.

Re: Amex "total assets" help

Anonymous — Tue, 19 Jul 2016 15:52:53 GMT

I assume they want to know your assets because they want to know what your chances are of being able to pay your bill should you lose your income? Is that a fair assessment? Someone with no assets if they lose their income can't really do much, but if they have assets they can use them to still pay their bill(s), at least temporarily.

That said, I would think something like a paid off car or paid off house that can be sold (even if it takes weeks or months) would be worthwhile in the sense that it could provide necessary funds to still pay bills if it ever came down to that. I know one of the first things I would do is sell my car if I ever found myself in a situation like that, and would do the same with my house if it ever got really bad.

While one perhaps shouldn't include actual market value of paid off real estate a liquid asset, including 2/3 of the amount or whatever number you're very confident you could quickly acquire I don't think would be a "wrong" move.

I think of an extreme example... like a guy that literally has all of his money tied up in real estate... multiple houses, apartment buildings, maybe some commercial sites etc. but if he has essentially nothing in savings, bonds and such his "total assets" would be viewed as very small which just doesn't seem to make sense to me.

Re: Amex "total assets" help

Anonymous — Tue, 19 Jul 2016 15:54:53 GMT

@sccredit wrote:
This is basically telling anyone under 21 that they cannot use mommy and daddy's assets.

Gotcha. I wasn't sure if it was like income where some adults will disclose only their own income where others include their income plus their spouses. I didn't know if this rule was true when considering "total assets" as well.

Nice replies and feedback from those that have contributed above... I appreciate the insight and different perspectives.

Re: Amex "total assets" help

kdm31091 — Tue, 19 Jul 2016 16:00:28 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

I think of an extreme example... like a guy that literally has all of his money tied up in real estate... multiple houses, apartment buildings, maybe some commercial sites etc. but if he has essentially nothing in savings, bonds and such his "total assets" would be viewed as very small which just doesn't seem to make sense to me.

You should always have actual, real money in savings, or some such, so you can access it. Tying up all of your money in real estate is not smart. Yes, you theoretically can sell it and get the money, but then you still need a place to live, so that will eat away some of the money right away.

Credit card companies are concerned with liquid assets, money that you can access right here and right now. A house has a certain value but it is not guaranteed, same with a car. It's not the same as cash in an account. Amex (or whoever) is worried about the money available to you to repay debts. You aren't likely to sell your house to pay off a CC.

Re: Amex "total assets" help

DrZoidberg — Tue, 19 Jul 2016 16:10:50 GMT

A financial asset by definition has contractual worth. Meaning you purchase a bond, and by contract this bond is worth said dollars. No matter what happens, that bond is worth that money. Same with stocks and savings.

A house is not. There is not contractural guarantee your house is worth $250k.

You asked for advice and it was given, it seems you don't want to acccept it. If curious if you can use it, just ask Amex through chat. They'll tell you. This thread is starting to become a record player.

Re: Amex "total assets" help

Anonymous — Tue, 19 Jul 2016 16:22:50 GMT

@DrZoidberg wrote:
A financial asset by definition has contractual worth. Meaning you purchase a bond, and by contract this bond is worth said dollars. No matter what happens, that bond is worth that money. Same with stocks and savings.

A house is not. There is not contractural guarantee your house is worth $250k.

You asked for advice and it was given, it seems you don't want to acccept it. If curious if you can use it, just ask Amex through chat. They'll tell you. This thread is starting to become a record player.

I asked for opinions not advice. Your opinion is different than mine. I don't have a big deal with that where evidently you do. If you feel that a thread that's only been alive for a few hours has become a record player then no further need for you to listen to the record.

Sure there is no gaurantee that the house is worth $250k... but if I know I can unload it for $100k in 3-4 weeks (taking a huge loss regardless) to me I see it as a $100k asset. Again, my opinion, and it's cool if yours differs from it.

Re: Amex "total assets" help

Anonymous — Tue, 19 Jul 2016 16:21:22 GMT

@kdm31091 wrote:
Credit card companies are concerned with liquid assets, money that you can access right here and right now. A house has a certain value but it is not guaranteed, same with a car. It's not the same as cash in an account. Amex (or whoever) is worried about the money available to you to repay debts. You aren't likely to sell your house to pay off a CC.

I agree that most wouldn't sell their house to pay off a CC... but I think many WOULD sell their house if they lost their job, were unable to obtain another form of income and couldn't pay any of their bills. I would choose that avenue prior to plunging into debt. But that's me, and I'm sure others would handle that situation differently.

Re: Amex "total assets" help

DrZoidberg — Tue, 19 Jul 2016 16:27:13 GMT

Put your house down.Problem solved.

Quoting your OP, "Assets include savings accounts, checking accounts, retirement accounts and other investments (stocks, bonds, brokerage accounts etc)." I'm curious how you call this vague and wondered if you could use your house.

Re: Amex "total assets" help

Anonymous — Tue, 19 Jul 2016 16:50:27 GMT

Quite simply because "investment" is a very loose term. People "invest" in real estate all the time. In fact, many will argue that over time it's a more sound investment than some other forms such as stocks that Amex includes in their mini blurb about what constitutes total assets. Therefore, by definition, it can be considered an investment. I was curious if people used paid off real estate that could easily be liquidated as part of their total assets. In your opinion it shouldn't be used, I get that.

Re: Amex "total assets" help

Anonymous — Tue, 19 Jul 2016 18:17:05 GMT

Amex wants to know what, if any, cash (read: potentially garnishable) assets you have.

In most states, a house you live in is your homestead, and is exempt from such things in the event you run up a large Amex bill and don't pay it. Likewise a car is a depreciation-bound liquifiable asset, but they cannot seize it to pay your Amex bill. These types of assets are things that hold value, but are not liquid like cash, stocks, etc.

They'd need a court order to force you to sell that house, which would be much harder (or possibly impossible, again depending on the state laws in question) to get than one allowing them to garnish your bank accounts to satisfy a cash judgment, which is fairly simple in most jurisdictions.

They are not likely to go after retirement accounts, again because it is difficult to do, but they use this asset number as a gauge of where you stand re: financial stability for the future, so having you include those accounts in the figure gives them a full picture. Plus, as mentioned before, it is fairly simple to get money out of a retirement account to use in an emergency, even though it costs in fees and such to do so.

Re: Amex "total assets" help

DrZoidberg — Tue, 19 Jul 2016 18:38:46 GMT

A house simply isn't an investment even if paid. It makes you no money. You pay taxes, insurance and repairs. When you sell it, you have to spend the money to find other living arrangements.

A good finacnial planner would exclude a house and car from total assets.

Re: Amex "total assets" help

driftless — Tue, 19 Jul 2016 18:48:59 GMT

I can't see how a house fits in terms of the Amex question about liquid assets. The reason for the question is obviously apparent.

Re: Amex "total assets" help

CreditDunce — Tue, 19 Jul 2016 18:55:52 GMT

Some really good points have been made in this thread.

I own my home free and clear, too. The place to enter that is zero for mortgage/rent payments. Counting zero for your mortgage payments plus adding it to your assets would be double dipping. If you own rental properties, then you are getting credit for the income.