topic Re: Amex is overrated in Credit Cards

Amex is overrated

Anonymous — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 17:22:43 GMT

Applied for the Amex Green Card last week and today I receive a letter from them with a 4506- T tax request. My income is only 37k which is exactly what I listed but I will not be sending that form back. I would not fill out that form for any creditor including Amex. I don't have any relationship with them either.

Re: Amex is overrated

Anonymous — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 17:37:29 GMT

That's odd. So why do you feel they are over rated, because of the request?

Re: Amex is overrated

jacetx — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 17:36:14 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Applied for the Amex Green Card last week and today I receive a letter from them with a 4506- T tax request. My income is only 37k which is exactly what I listed but I will not be sending that form back. I would not fill out that form for any creditor including Amex. I don't have any relationship with them either.

So, you are basing your statement on a request for documentation? I have never been asked for any verification of income and I have 6 cards with them. Amex must have seen something in your credit profile that they did not like.

Re: Amex is overrated

Anonymous — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 17:46:26 GMT

While I can certainly understand your frustration, I think it may be a bit unfair to call them "Overrated" due to their request to verify your income, which any creditor has the right to do (and should, in my personal opinion). There must have been something in your overall credit profile that prompted them to request more information in order to satisfy their risk-based lending requirements.

Re: Amex is overrated

Anonymous — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 17:55:15 GMT

Totally guessing, but maybe OPs point is better expressed as

"Amex thinks too much of itself. Asking for tax returns when almost no other issuer does"

Now that might not be what was meant at all, but makes more sense to me as a reaction.

Re: Amex is overrated

Anonymous — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 18:15:22 GMT

I sorta kinda agree with OP. I wouldn't fill out the form either. Amex Green Card is NOT worth it lol

Re: Amex is overrated

Anonymous — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 18:42:20 GMT

I agree that the 4506-T is completely ludacris, and I am a CPA. I do, however, think that there should be some sort of verification system in place for creditors to verify income information real-time in this day and age.

Re: Amex is overrated

Anonymous — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 19:02:05 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
While I can certainly understand your frustration, I think it may be a bit unfair to call them "Overrated" due to their request to verify your income, which any creditor has the right to do (and should, in my personal opinion). There must have been something in your overall credit profile that prompted them to request more information in order to satisfy their risk-based lending requirements.

This right here, and I'll share a similar story with Citi. About 18 months ago I appd for the Citi Hilton card and was met with a 4506 request (I was not a current customer) and having similar feelings about 4506's I simply passed. Fast forward 5 months later I app for the Citi Prestige and was instantly approved and since then I have gotten x2 CLI's, and yet to trigger a 4506 request. I appreciate the frustration but I wouldn't take Amex off your future list just yet.

Re: Amex is overrated

Anonymous — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 19:05:15 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I agree that the 4506-T is completely ludacris, and I am a CPA. I do, however, think that there should be some sort of verification system in place for creditors to verify income information real-time in this day and age.

That sounds like a good concept.

What information is on a tax transcript that is more personal than a person gives when applying for a credit card?

Re: Amex is overrated

Anonymous — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 19:06:42 GMT

Not everyone has a standard 9-5 job and a payroll check every week. Times have changed and that means the way people get paid has changed as well.

Re: Amex is overrated

Anonymous — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 19:09:26 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Not everyone has a standard 9-5 job and a payroll check every week. Times have changed and that means the way people get paid has changed as well.

Exactly, so the information would have to come from IRS reported income. It seems like the IRS could offer an "income verification" shortened version of the tax transcript with all other information redacted or left off.

Re: Amex is overrated

Anonymous — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 19:42:31 GMT

"Income verification" is not quite the right phrase either, they just report what you declared to the IRS. I guess what is good for the issuers is that tax cheats will under-report income, and it's over-reporting issuers don't like!

ETA: And so, come to think of it, an expensive loophole for those that really want a high limit Amex. For two years, report and pay taxes on made up self-employed income. Now a 4506-T will come back with the desired inflated income!

Re: Amex is overrated

sccredit — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 19:44:41 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

Amex thinks too much of itself

This is a sentiment I'd agree with.

Re: Amex is overrated

Kidcat — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 20:41:40 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
"Income verification" is not quite the right phrase either, they just report what you declared to the IRS. I guess what is good for the issuers is that tax cheats will under-report income, and it's over-reporting issuers don't like!

ETA: And so, come to think of it, an expensive loophole for those that really want a high limit Amex. For two years, report and pay taxes on made up self-employed income. Now a 4506-T will come back with the desired inflated income!

But in many cases the tax transcript does not accurately reflect income, especially if you have lots of pre tax deductions from your paychecks...so not cheats per se.

But to your point your taxable income is likely less than the income you may report in a credit application. Why not just ask for a paystub, or balance sheet or something more realtime and real.

Re: Amex is overrated

morgacj2004 — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 20:48:42 GMT

Seems like overkill for a green card. I don't like AX because during the last recession they CLD me on my Plat and Gold card despite a long hx with them including big spend and perfect payment hx. Also had a Optima and Green card. No longer have any AX products

Re: Amex is overrated

UncleB — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 20:56:36 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
I agree that the 4506-T is completely ludacris, and I am a CPA. I do, however, think that there should be some sort of verification system in place for creditors to verify income information real-time in this day and age.
That sounds like a good concept.

What information is on a tax transcript that is more personal than a person gives when applying for a credit card?

It's basically a printout of your entire tax return line-by-line, including your spouses name, SS#, and income/deductions as well as your children's SS#'s (if applicable). They also get to see your annual medical expenses if you itemize - which many people feel crosses the line - and anything else you itemize that you might not want in a database somewhere.

Personally if my spouse were to get a request for a tax transcript (if I were married) there would be a very long discussion before moving forward, since I would have a big problem with my personal information being handed over to a creditor I had no account with, especially if we each earned enough anyway to not have to rely on the other's income to qualify.

In an example such as this I'm not their actual customer, so if there were to be a data breach I'm not sure what level of responsibilty they would be required to assume for me. And that goes even more so for dependent children's information... to me that's actually the worst part of the whole thing... children have no say in the matter at all.

Re: Amex is overrated

Anonymous — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 21:32:35 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

What information is on a tax transcript that is more personal than a person gives when applying for a credit card?

Don't know if this is new but you can now get your tax transcript on line (takes a few mins to get registered):

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/get-transcript

Re: Amex is overrated

Anonymous — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 21:34:16 GMT

I agree with you OP, Amex does not suit everyone's needs.

They seem a bit skittish when it comes to "higher" utilization and carrying balances. Not my kind of bank and I would never apply for one of their cards.

Asking for a 4506 on a green charge card is laughable. If they were so concerned, then they needed to ask for a 4506-T before approval.

Drop 'em like a hot potato. Good riddance.

I notice people sometimes complain about Discover and how they can be stingy with starting limits or CLI on new accounts; the thing is Discover doesn't flinch when you need to utilize and carry a large percentage of your credit limit, at least in my experience. That's the kind of bank I want to do business with.

If they've given me 15k in borrowing power I expect to be able to USE a substantial percentage of that limit without a FR or CLD. If they only want me to use < 30% of my limit, don't give it to me in the first place. The whole 30% thing is arse backwards. I'm not interested in high limits just for show.

Re: Amex is overrated

Anonymous — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 21:36:01 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I agree with you OP, Amex does not suit everyone's needs.
They seem a bit skittish when it comes to "higher" utilization and carrying balances. Not my kind of bank and I would never apply for one of their cards.
Asking for a 4506 on a green charge card is laughable. If they were so concerned, then they needed to ask for a 4506-T before approval.
Drop 'em like a hot potato. Good riddance.

Isn't that what they did in the OPs case! Not the usual scenario we hear about.

Re: Amex is overrated

Closingracer99 — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 21:38:56 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Applied for the Amex Green Card last week and today I receive a letter from them with a 4506- T tax request. My income is only 37k which is exactly what I listed but I will not be sending that form back. I would not fill out that form for any creditor including Amex. I don't have any relationship with them either.

Yeah.... that makes them overrated? Ummm ok? I like their cards and about to add my Hilton card back into my rotation ...

they could simply just close your account instead of verifying .... Yeah it sucks and I was FR'ed back in 2014 but i sent it in with no issues....