topic Re: Hard Lesson Learned in Credit Cards

Hard Lesson Learned

IncrsCreditScore1 — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 17:53:31 GMT

A couple of months ago, I applied for a Chase card I really wanted. However, my application was denied due to the 5/24 rule. That made me sit up and take notice that one needs to really keep track of their new credit cards and always stay below the 5 new cards within the past 24 months.

With the spate of announcements of declinations of those applying for the new Chase Sapphire Review (CSR) card due to the 5/24 rule, it has become even more apparent that a goal of staying under that rule is a necessity for any of us wanting a Chase card in the future.

I have heard it rumored that other entities are going to impose this rule, too.

Re: Hard Lesson Learned

Anonymous — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 18:01:15 GMT

Other banks have always done this, even if it was a more general "too many new acounts recently" or such. It's a funny balance for them to keep but as seen with the CSR card this week that many indeed were denied 5/24 but some were over 5/24 and did get in.

Re: Hard Lesson Learned

driftless — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 18:07:26 GMT

Actually, I think that 5/24 is a good rule. Imagine what card rewards would be like without the churners. 5 cards in 2 years is a lot of cards. I know that I am going to catch flak for my opinion on this forum so now I am going to quietly put on my flak vest and helmet and hunker down.

Re: Hard Lesson Learned

creditguy — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 18:08:47 GMT

Yep 5/24 is definitely a pain in the rear for the folks on this forum, not so much for the average credit card user. If you want it bad enough, anything is possible and that includes waiting to be able to apply for a chase card. I haven't heard of any other banks thinking of implementing a 5/24 type of rule, but I suppose anything is possible, but it's all just speculation. Imagine though what would happen around here if all major banks implemented a 5/24 rule?

Re: Hard Lesson Learned

creditguy — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 18:10:00 GMT

@driftless wrote:
Actually, I think that 5/24 is a good rule. Imagine what card rewards would be like without the churners. 5 cards in 2 years is a lot of cards. I know that I am going to catch flak for my opinion on this forum so now I am going to quietly put on my flak vest and helmet and hunker down.

I actually agree with you, How's that for flak?

Re: Hard Lesson Learned

Anonymous — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 18:11:01 GMT

@creditguy wrote:
Yep 5/24 is definitely a pain in the rear for the folks on this forum, not so much for the average credit card user. If you want it bad enough, anything is possible and that includes waiting to be able to apply for a chase card. I haven't heard of any other banks thinking of implementing a 5/24 type of rule, but I suppose anything is possible, but it's all just speculation. Imagine though what would happen around here if all major banks implemented a 5/24 rule?

If all issuers went hard 5/24 it would take all the Prozac on the planet to sufficiently calm the folks of MF and FT .

Re: Hard Lesson Learned

CreditCuriosity — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 18:38:08 GMT

@driftless wrote:
Actually, I think that 5/24 is a good rule. Imagine what card rewards would be like without the churners. 5 cards in 2 years is a lot of cards. I know that I am going to catch flak for my opinion on this forum so now I am going to quietly put on my flak vest and helmet and hunker down.

I think part of the problem with the 5x24 rule w/regards to this forum are alot of people are rebuilders on this forum including myself. Part of rebuilding credit is getting credit and as your credit gets better getting better cards and getting rid of the not-so-good cards. Thus the majority of this forum although not all of it are in some sort of rebuilding stage although their scores are good alot/most are over the 5x24 rule. That is what makes its a bit painful for alot of people on this forum to swallow. I agree 5x24 isn't a bad rule in theory, just they are also shooting down some not really bonus chasers by brushing everyone that is over 5x24 as a bonus chaser..

I admit I am way way over 5x24 as I have alot of great cards now and don't regret it one bit the choices I have made to get my credit where it is now when I still have a year or two until the last late/baddie falls off. A few cards I could of passed on for sure, but most of them I enjoy. Even if I did pass on some of those cards that I no longer have I am way over 5x24 and don't regret it other than not being able to get a few nice cards Chase has. Tis life and there will always be some sort of new card in the future with something everyone must have.

Re: Hard Lesson Learned

redpat — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 18:21:29 GMT

@creditguy wrote:
@driftless wrote:
Actually, I think that 5/24 is a good rule. Imagine what card rewards would be like without the churners. 5 cards in 2 years is a lot of cards. I know that I am going to catch flak for my opinion on this forum so now I am going to quietly put on my flak vest and helmet and hunker down.
I actually agree with you, How's that for flak?

Re: Hard Lesson Learned

Xistaben2 — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 18:39:08 GMT

I also think the 5/24 is a good rule and I actually hope more banks end up doing it. Keeps churned at bay somewhat.

A lot of people here go on app sprees to rebuild their credit, but they don't actually have to do that. App sprees and applying for everything under the sun because you can could quite possibly slow the rebuild process because of AAoA and inquiries etc. A lot of times app spree folks end up closing cards later, getting wrapped up in AA (Synchrony issues being a prime example) or just racking up debt again because of overexposure before they are ready.

I don't think I've ever been +5/24 until now (when CSR and EDP report)

Re: Hard Lesson Learned

Anonymous — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 18:40:15 GMT

@driftless wrote:
Actually, I think that 5/24 is a good rule. Imagine what card rewards would be like without the churners. 5 cards in 2 years is a lot of cards. I know that I am going to catch flak for my opinion on this forum so now I am going to quietly put on my flak vest and helmet and hunker down.

Agreed. 5 cards in 2 years is ALOT. I haven't apped for a card since 2012.

Re: Hard Lesson Learned

Anonymous — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 18:50:34 GMT

@driftless wrote:
Actually, I think that 5/24 is a good rule. Imagine what card rewards would be like without the churners. 5 cards in 2 years is a lot of cards. I know that I am going to catch flak for my opinion on this forum so now I am going to quietly put on my flak vest and helmet and hunker down.

The beauty of the board is having diverse opinions and that is very good. I do agree with you on the above post and it is a good rule. I get baffled when people get upset about the rule and with Chase. There are many, many banks out there with similar products.

I can also understand why some people don't care for them but we all have to remember, if Chase / JP Morgan didn't bail out the U.S government in 1895, we wouldn't have the financial system we have now. So lets give Chae some credit here.

Let's be even honest with ourselves, how many people on here can genuinely say they will keep the card - CSR past the one year mark? My guess is not alot.

Re: Hard Lesson Learned

kdm31091 — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 18:54:00 GMT

@CreditCuriousity wrote:
@driftless wrote:
Actually, I think that 5/24 is a good rule. Imagine what card rewards would be like without the churners. 5 cards in 2 years is a lot of cards. I know that I am going to catch flak for my opinion on this forum so now I am going to quietly put on my flak vest and helmet and hunker down.
I think part of the problem with the 5x24 rule w/regards to this forum are alot of people are rebuilders on this forum including myself. Part of rebuilding credit is getting credit and as your credit gets better getting better cards and getting rid of the not-so-good cards. Thus the majority of this forum although not all of it are in some sort of rebuilding stage although their scores are good alot/most are over the 5x24 rule. That is what makes its a bit painful for alot of people on this forum to swallow. I agree 5x24 isn't a bad rule in theory, just they are also shooting down some not really bonus chasers by brushing everyone that is over 5x24 as a bonus chaser..

I admit I am way way over 5x24 as I have alot of great cards now and don't regret it one bit the choices I have made to get my credit where it is now when I still have a year or two until the last late/baddie falls off. A few cards I could of passed on for sure, but most of them I enjoy. Even if I did pass on some of those cards that I no longer have I am way over 5x24 and don't regret it other than not being able to get a few nice cards Chase has. Tis life and there will always be some sort of new card in the future with something everyone must have.

Yes, but most people outside of the "credit world" do not rebuild with 10 or 20 or 30 accounts in one year. I'm not picking on you -- it applies to many people. I wasn't even rebuilding from anything bad yet I got way too many cards in 2014/2015. "Rebuilding" can be as simple as slowly building up 2-3 accounts in good standing.

Every action we make has consequences and the consequences are not always laid out clearly. By applying for a lot of cards you take a risk that future accounts won't be approved as you rack up many inquiries and new accounts. Rebuilding is one thing yes but inquiries/new accounts represent risk to issuers. Lots of new accounts usually indicates someone who is very credit hungry and may default, or else just an unprofitable churner.

If you truly aren't chasing after bonuses and just want the card for the long run then you have to decide if it's worth waiting out 5/24. Since most banks have clamped down big time on bonuses anyway (Amex, Citi, etc) there's not much incentive to be constantly applying for cards at this point. Applying for incemental rewards (i.e. not bonuses, just spend rewards) doesn't produce a life changing difference, and thus it's something that can wait. Compared to the general population 5 cards in 2 years are a lot. Many people don't even apply for five cards in 3 or 5 years.

The positive part is that because 5/24 locks out churners, we may see offers/rewards get more generous since the criteria to qualify will be tougher.

Re: Hard Lesson Learned

CreditCuriosity — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 18:53:56 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@driftless wrote:
Actually, I think that 5/24 is a good rule. Imagine what card rewards would be like without the churners. 5 cards in 2 years is a lot of cards. I know that I am going to catch flak for my opinion on this forum so now I am going to quietly put on my flak vest and helmet and hunker down.
The beauty of the board is having diverse opinions and that is very good. I do agree with you on the above post and it is a good rule. I get baffled when people get upset about the rule and with Chase. There are many, many banks out there with similar products.

I can also understand why some people don't care for them but we all have to remember, if Chase / JP Morgan didn't bail out the U.S government in 1895, we wouldn't have the financial system we have now. So lets give Chae some credit here.

Let's be even honest with ourselves, how many people on here can genuinely say they will keep the card - CSR past the one year mark? My guess is not alot.

I would agree with this, just like the Ritz most people say 90-95% will cancel after the first year when sticker shock hits them after they collect the 100k ur and 600 in travel credit.

Re: Hard Lesson Learned

Anonymous — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 18:57:32 GMT

@CreditCuriousity wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@driftless wrote:
Actually, I think that 5/24 is a good rule. Imagine what card rewards would be like without the churners. 5 cards in 2 years is a lot of cards. I know that I am going to catch flak for my opinion on this forum so now I am going to quietly put on my flak vest and helmet and hunker down.
The beauty of the board is having diverse opinions and that is very good. I do agree with you on the above post and it is a good rule. I get baffled when people get upset about the rule and with Chase. There are many, many banks out there with similar products.

I can also understand why some people don't care for them but we all have to remember, if Chase / JP Morgan didn't bail out the U.S government in 1895, we wouldn't have the financial system we have now. So lets give Chae some credit here.

Let's be even honest with ourselves, how many people on here can genuinely say they will keep the card - CSR past the one year mark? My guess is not alot.
I would agree with this, just like the Ritz most people say 90-95% will cancel after the first year when sticker shock hits them after they collect the 100k ur and 600 in travel credit.

Agreed. And the fees add up. For example, If you have the Ritz, Amex Platinum, Citi Prestige etc.. that alone is alot of benjamins going just to pay annual fees.

Re: Hard Lesson Learned

IncrsCreditScore1 — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 19:00:28 GMT

@driftless,I do think the 5/24 is a good one and agree with you; however

@CreditCuriousity: I also agree with you. I was/am a builder who had no credit cards, so that is why I actually had 6/24. Just wish I knew the 5/24 was going to come around before I got that many during a brief time frame. But now I know and have made it a goal to stay under the 5/24 as soon as I can start that in April 2017.

Hope I am making sense.

Re: Hard Lesson Learned

Xistaben2 — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 19:02:47 GMT

A vast majority here have applied and held onto a CSP for longer term. The CSR making the CSP obsolete for essentially $55 more AF and bigger perks, it might have more staying power long term.

I think it might beat out the Amex platinum just on the ability of 3x points on travel and dining with a 50% redemption bonus for those who don't transfer to partners.

I also noticed that UR has a lot of big name point multipliers for online shopping as offers. Amex does this better with straight cash back a lot of times, but they don't consistently have high profile brands, it's usually obscure stores.

Re: Hard Lesson Learned

creditguy — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 19:05:38 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@driftless wrote:
Actually, I think that 5/24 is a good rule. Imagine what card rewards would be like without the churners. 5 cards in 2 years is a lot of cards. I know that I am going to catch flak for my opinion on this forum so now I am going to quietly put on my flak vest and helmet and hunker down.
The beauty of the board is having diverse opinions and that is very good. I do agree with you on the above post and it is a good rule. I get baffled when people get upset about the rule and with Chase. There are many, many banks out there with similar products.

I can also understand why some people don't care for them but we all have to remember, if Chase / JP Morgan didn't bail out the U.S government in 1895, we wouldn't have the financial system we have now. So lets give Chae some credit here.

Let's be even honest with ourselves, how many people on here can genuinely say they will keep the card - CSR past the one year mark? My guess is not alot.

I will give John Pierpont Morgan the man credit for saving the financial system in 1895, but not chase since they were not associated with JP Morgan then. And the government returned the favor to chase in 2008.

Re: Hard Lesson Learned

redpat — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 19:06:57 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@driftless wrote:
Actually, I think that 5/24 is a good rule. Imagine what card rewards would be like without the churners. 5 cards in 2 years is a lot of cards. I know that I am going to catch flak for my opinion on this forum so now I am going to quietly put on my flak vest and helmet and hunker down.
The beauty of the board is having diverse opinions and that is very good. I do agree with you on the above post and it is a good rule. I get baffled when people get upset about the rule and with Chase. There are many, many banks out there with similar products.

I can also understand why some people don't care for them but we all have to remember, if Chase / JP Morgan didn't bail out the U.S government in 1895, we wouldn't have the financial system we have now. So lets give Chae some credit here.

Let's be even honest with ourselves, how many people on here can genuinely say they will keep the card - CSR past the one year mark? My guess is not alot.

I'm keeping mine.....Really, the 1.50x makes a huge difference w/ my business spend on ink+. Chase should have simply increased the AF $55 on CSP and not have offered a new card so close to CSP, making CSP card obsolete.

Re: Hard Lesson Learned

IncrsCreditScore1 — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 20:08:54 GMT

As MissingCalifornia stated, "Other banks have always done this, even if it was a more general 'too many new acounts recently' or such." But that "rule" was so vague, no one knew what the "rule" was. Now with the firm 5/24 rule, we know where we stand and how to plan. I am so glad Chase gave us a finite rule.

Re: Hard Lesson Learned

Anonymous — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 19:20:00 GMT

@creditguy wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@driftless wrote:
Actually, I think that 5/24 is a good rule. Imagine what card rewards would be like without the churners. 5 cards in 2 years is a lot of cards. I know that I am going to catch flak for my opinion on this forum so now I am going to quietly put on my flak vest and helmet and hunker down.
The beauty of the board is having diverse opinions and that is very good. I do agree with you on the above post and it is a good rule. I get baffled when people get upset about the rule and with Chase. There are many, many banks out there with similar products.

I can also understand why some people don't care for them but we all have to remember, if Chase / JP Morgan didn't bail out the U.S government in 1895, we wouldn't have the financial system we have now. So lets give Chae some credit here.

Let's be even honest with ourselves, how many people on here can genuinely say they will keep the card - CSR past the one year mark? My guess is not alot.
I will give John Pierpont Morgan the man credit for saving the financial system in 1895, but not chase since they were not associated with JP Morgan then. And the government returned the favor to chase in 2008.

Chase is part of JP Morgan hence the reference. One big umbrella. And, yes the U.S government returned the favor yet people only bemoan how Chase got the bailout without referencing the overall picture out how the financial system survived in the first place.

Chase drives me crazy at times but lets give credit where credit is due.