topic Re: APR Question in Credit Cards

APR Question

Absolution16 — Sun, 11 Sep 2016 02:29:25 GMT

I am quite disappointed with my newly approved Capital One Venture card, which I haven't received yet. I just got their approval mail today, only to find out that my APR is a whopping 23.24%! I checked the pre-qualification site before applying past Monday (9/5/16), and it was at 17.24% or there. This is their highest APR, and having read that Capital One is a major pain to work with when it comes to trying to lower APRs, this throws my plan to PC it into QS much less desirable.

My signature at the bottom list my cards from left to right, in order of being accepted. The APRs are all over the place:

Chase Sapphire Preferred: 16.24%

AMEX Blue Cash Everyday: 22.24% (Intro APR of 0% until 3/17/2017)

Barclay Arrival: 20.24%

AMEX Everyday Preferred: 15.24%

Chase Freedom: 23.24% (Intro APR of 0% until 7/13/2017)

Capital One Venture: 23.24%

Now Capital One's approval letter states that my Experian FICO score was 722 as of Mon/9/5/16. I checked with Credit Check Total right before I applied and my Experian FICO8 score was at 751. I am not sure if Capital One has their own method of calculating FICO scores? And I wonder why they didn't even bother considering FICO scores from other credit bureaus if they pulled from all 3!

So how are credit card APRs determined? I am guessing my length of history and the relatively new credit cards applied and approved (all of them this year from January) had a lot to do with this. What steps, if any, should I take, to work on lowering the APRs?

After my Venture application, I opted out of pre-screened offers because I was dead set on not applying for any more cards until summer of next year. I suppose I could opt back in again at that time? I was really hoping not to apply for any more credit cards, especially since I would like to apply for my first auto loan next year. I really hope to avoid having to apply for a new card just so I can make a merge into a lower APR card.

And while at it, Barclay Arrival, which didn't come with the intro APR of 0% at sign up, has this balance transfer offer. I only have $1,500 limit on this card, so it doesn't seem very helpful. I am, however, interested in knowing this: If I wait until the next statement cut, does the expiration date on the 0% APR get pushed back one more month or does it stay at exactly the same date no matter when I opt into this offer? And what's with having 2 different balance transfers with different expiration date? I suppose the difference is the balance transfer fee of 2% or 3% but still.....

Any tips for this confused and disappointed soul?

Re: APR Question

CreditDunce — Sun, 11 Sep 2016 03:55:41 GMT

Cap1 uses a variety of FICO scores. I think their base score is EQ-04. If they are showing an Experian score it is probably using the FICO 04 model.

Each time you check Cap1's Pre-qual you can get different APR's. If the interest rate is important to you, then you should check the pre-qual every week or so. When you get a good rate, accept the pre-qual. Cold app'g doesnt' guarantee the same rate as you saw yesterday. APRs are based on what the CCC thinks will be the most profitable for them. People with a higer credit score have more options so CCC's try to compete with lower APRs. They will also give higher APR's if they see risky behavior like multiple apps. My advice is to PIF every month.

Auto loans are not hard to get. I wouldn't be too worried. Even a 722 EQ-04 will get you the best rate from DCU. They are secured loans.

I have never accepted a BT offer. Barclay keeps sending new ones. Don't think you have to accept the ones you are now seeing. They will offer more next quarter. Barclay wouldn't be my first choice for BT friendly banks, but it is up to you. Personally, if I was interested in a BT offer, I would check local CU's first.

Re: APR Question

Absolution16 — Sun, 11 Sep 2016 05:14:17 GMT

@CreditDunce wrote:
Cap1 uses a variety of FICO scores. I think their base score is EQ-04. If they are showing an Experian score it is probably using the FICO 04 model.

Each time you check Cap1's Pre-qual you can get different APR's. If the interest rate is important to you, then you should check the pre-qual every week or so. When you get a good rate, accept the pre-qual. Cold app'g doesnt' guarantee the same rate as you saw yesterday. APRs are based on what the CCC thinks will be the most profitable for them. People with a higer credit score have more options so CCC's try to compete with lower APRs. They will also give higher APR's if they see risky behavior like multiple apps. My advice is to PIF every month.

Auto loans are not hard to get. I wouldn't be too worried. Even a 722 EQ-04 will get you the best rate from DCU. They are secured loans.

I have never accepted a BT offer. Barclay keeps sending new ones. Don't think you have to accept the ones you are now seeing. They will offer more next quarter. Barclay wouldn't be my first choice for BT friendly banks, but it is up to you. Personally, if I was interested in a BT offer, I would check local CU's first.

Ah... thank you for that handy information regarding FICO 04 model. Based on my experience with AMEX, Chase, and Barclay, they all used FICO8 scores I verified with Credit Check Total and MyFico. So it was a little strange to have them tell me a completely different score than what I pulled the very same day I applied.

For the Venture, I do fully intend to pay in full.

**sigh of relief** from your comments re: auto loans interest rate... whew....

Yeah, that BT offer.... I am not highly enthused about it.... was just wondering.

Thanks for your feedback!

Re: APR Question

Anonymous — Sun, 11 Sep 2016 05:27:56 GMT

At least you arent stuck with a 25.24% apr like me on my cap1 qs vs!

I really dont think your APRs are all over the place. They seem to be either 15s or 20s..... My APR's are all over the place, 2.9, 8.49, 13.24, 15.24, 17.24, 18.24, 20.24, 25.24

At least with half your cards you can easily get apr reductions.

Not sure how old that barclays card is but they do let some folks get a SP increase and apr reduction by calling in.....

Dont forget u can move limit from your EDP to your BCE if your card was a year or 13 statements old (cant remember which), also can move some of that CSP limit to your freedom too anytime!

Re: APR Question

Absolution16 — Sun, 11 Sep 2016 05:40:23 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
At least you arent stuck with a 25.24% apr like me on my cap1 qs vs!

I really dont think your APRs are all over the place. They seem to be either 15s or 20s..... My APR's are all over the place, 2.9, 8.49, 13.24, 15.24, 17.24, 18.24, 20.24, 25.24

At least with half your cards you can easily get apr reductions.

Not sure how old that barclays card is but they do let some folks get a SP increase and apr reduction by calling in.....

Dont forget u can move limit from your EDP to your BCE if your card was a year or 13 statements old (cant remember which), also can move some of that CSP limit to your freedom too anytime!

Ouch... 25.24% on QS....! And yours is indeed all over the place!

Now which half of my cards can I get APR reduction easily?

My Barclay is pretty pathetic one. $1,500 limit only and it is like about 6 months old....

My BCE is even more pathetic at $1,000 limit and high APR too. If anything, after my AF comes due for the EDP, I might just combine the two AMEX, have the one card converted to regular Everyday card and keep the lower APR of the EDP... if that's even possible....

Now I am thinking.... maybe I should have apped for Discover it Miles instead...

Re: APR Question

Anonymous — Sun, 11 Sep 2016 06:11:32 GMT

@Absolution16 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
At least you arent stuck with a 25.24% apr like me on my cap1 qs vs!

I really dont think your APRs are all over the place. They seem to be either 15s or 20s..... My APR's are all over the place, 2.9, 8.49, 13.24, 15.24, 17.24, 18.24, 20.24, 25.24

At least with half your cards you can easily get apr reductions.

Not sure how old that barclays card is but they do let some folks get a SP increase and apr reduction by calling in.....

Dont forget u can move limit from your EDP to your BCE if your card was a year or 13 statements old (cant remember which), also can move some of that CSP limit to your freedom too anytime!
Ouch... 25.24% on QS....! And yours is indeed all over the place!

Now which half of my cards can I get APR reduction easily?

My Barclay is pretty pathetic one. $1,500 limit only and it is like about 6 months old....

My BCE is even more pathetic at $1,000 limit and high APR too. If anything, after my AF comes due for the EDP, I might just combine the two AMEX, have the one card converted to regular Everyday card and keep the lower APR of the EDP... if that's even possible....

Now I am thinking.... maybe I should have apped for Discover it Miles instead...

The ones that are Amex and Barclays. The barclays limit should grow either by sp or hp. You can certainly downgrade the EDP at any time afaik due to card act??? Either way you'd keep the APR no matter when. You can ask amex for apr reductions every 60-90 days.

Just look at your yearly spending with the EDP and if you transfer the points to delta, flying blue, etc just try to get at least 1-2 cents per point or more in return....

Also consider your 5/24 status with chase and plan ahead. Remember APRs really don't matter as much with rewards cards because they start to negate any returns you've earned with points. I would get the CSR if you are under 5/24 and start a banking relationship with a credit union if you haven't done so already. Its nice to have a card with a CU that can also function as a line of credit, especially if it has no BT or CA fees. Might require a little research depending on your location if you want something local. Lots of options out there. But it is nice to have a low apr in case you do need to carry a balance for a month or two that doesn't completely erase your points/cash back.

Just don't spread yourself too thin with rewards programs. I blew my chances with chase unfortunately while building but there are still plenty of deals out there to get without them. I also try to plan to use points for experiences I wouldn't normally get (point hoarder), except for Amtrak since they changed their rewards it makes more sense to use the points for short trips.

New bonuses of course are important as long as you aren't needing a mortgage soon. But have your cards tweaked so that post bonus spend you get the max return on your regular spending.

The it miles is a nice card. I did consider applying for it the other day when I applied for the disco IT. $30 a year in free boingo inflight wifi, and is basically a 3% card the first year. Unless they change their terms, you are stuck with a 1.5% card and have to apply for a 2nd card if you wanted the regular IT. (afaik currently the it miles does not have a referral either).

Re: APR Question

Anonymous — Sun, 11 Sep 2016 06:49:29 GMT

your picture says your apr after your 0% promo apr is going to be 20.24% not 23.24% sorry if im seeing it wrong

Re: APR Question

Anonymous — Sun, 11 Sep 2016 07:50:58 GMT

@Absolution16 wrote:
I am quite disappointed with my newly approved Capital One Venture card, which I haven't received yet. I just got their approval mail today, only to find out that my APR is a whopping 23.24%! I checked the pre-qualification site before applying past Monday (9/5/16), and it was at 17.24% or there. This is their highest APR, and having read that Capital One is a major pain to work with when it comes to trying to lower APRs, this throws my plan to PC it into QS much less desirable.

My signature at the bottom list my cards from left to right, in order of being accepted. The APRs are all over the place:

Chase Sapphire Preferred: 16.24%
AMEX Blue Cash Everyday: 22.24% (Intro APR of 0% until 3/17/2017)
Barclay Arrival: 20.24%
AMEX Everyday Preferred: 15.24%
Chase Freedom: 23.24% (Intro APR of 0% until 7/13/2017)
Capital One Venture: 23.24%

Now Capital One's approval letter states that my Experian FICO score was 722 as of Mon/9/5/16. I checked with Credit Check Total right before I applied and my Experian FICO8 score was at 751. I am not sure if Capital One has their own method of calculating FICO scores? And I wonder why they didn't even bother considering FICO scores from other credit bureaus if they pulled from all 3!

So how are credit card APRs determined?

I am guessing my length of history and the

relatively new credit cards applied and approved

(all of them this year from January) had a lot to do with this.

What steps, if any, should I take, to work on lowering the APRs?

Any tips for this confused and disappointed soul?

To cut to the quick....you've answered much of your own question.....BUT there is more to it.

1) You're right too many ppl confuse getting approval with getting approved with the best possible terms.....

a) We must remember these companies would prefer 'pretty' good files where they can offer more profitable for them terms than just finding a way OFFER terms where they make the least possible.....so yeah, they'll approve the 'new credit' client no problem but as far as giving up a well vetted low risk profile level 'cost-basis'....now, that's just a silly business move on their part, ain't gonna happen just because 'we' have a 10 month old history.

As a matter of fact the unknown nature of a growing 'new' file is quite frankly a higher risk than a 10 year vetted file....so yes there is something to the thought pattern per se but make no mistake the CCC doesn't want to give up X amount of years of 'rookie' pricing until you've actually SHOWN it.

2) The dirty truth is ....this stuff is like dating ....it's ALWAYS subjective and many times unilateral, when it comes to terms....which can be fickle....

NO OFFENSE Ladies

Guy A brings flowers, opens doors is 6'2 with all his teeth....

Guy B brings better flowers, opens doors, is 6'2and a half with great teeth

and it doesn't mean SHE will offer the same terms to both guys

and no law, rule or easily determined measure exist to take away her or the CCC 's seemingly ambiguous decision making processs when it comes to exactly how far and how much either will allow you regarding a relationship with THEM......

They decide what they offer and you will scratch and or bang your head trying to figure out the logic.....welcolm to the team

Re: APR Question

Absolution16 — Sun, 11 Sep 2016 18:24:13 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
The ones that are Amex and Barclays. The barclays limit should grow either by sp or hp. You can certainly downgrade the EDP at any time afaik due to card act??? Either way you'd keep the APR no matter when. You can ask amex for apr reductions every 60-90 days.

Just look at your yearly spending with the EDP and if you transfer the points to delta, flying blue, etc just try to get at least 1-2 cents per point or more in return....

Also consider your 5/24 status with chase and plan ahead. Remember APRs really don't matter as much with rewards cards because they start to negate any returns you've earned with points. I would get the CSR if you are under 5/24 and start a banking relationship with a credit union if you haven't done so already. Its nice to have a card with a CU that can also function as a line of credit, especially if it has no BT or CA fees. Might require a little research depending on your location if you want something local. Lots of options out there. But it is nice to have a low apr in case you do need to carry a balance for a month or two that doesn't completely erase your points/cash back.

Just don't spread yourself too thin with rewards programs. I blew my chances with chase unfortunately while building but there are still plenty of deals out there to get without them. I also try to plan to use points for experiences I wouldn't normally get (point hoarder), except for Amtrak since they changed their rewards it makes more sense to use the points for short trips.

New bonuses of course are important as long as you aren't needing a mortgage soon. But have your cards tweaked so that post bonus spend you get the max return on your regular spending.

The it miles is a nice card. I did consider applying for it the other day when I applied for the disco IT. $30 a year in free boingo inflight wifi, and is basically a 3% card the first year. Unless they change their terms, you are stuck with a 1.5% card and have to apply for a 2nd card if you wanted the regular IT. (afaik currently the it miles does not have a referral either).

Thank you for the useful information. Does the APR reduction period required count into consideration your last request for CLI or are they treated separately?

Re: APR Question

Absolution16 — Sun, 11 Sep 2016 18:25:45 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
your picture says your apr after your 0% promo apr is going to be 20.24% not 23.24% sorry if im seeing it wrong

I did indicate in my opening post that my Barclay Arrival has 20.24% APR. The Freedom and the not-yet-arrived Venture have that super ugly 23.24%.

The screen shot is from Barclay's website, not Capital One. I hope that cleared your confusion.

Re: APR Question

Absolution16 — Sun, 11 Sep 2016 18:38:13 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
To cut to the quick....you've answered much of your own question.....BUT there is more to it.

1) You're right too many ppl confuse getting approval with getting approved with the best possible terms.....
a) We must remember these companies would prefer 'pretty' good files where they can offer more profitable for them terms than just finding a way OFFER terms where they make the least possible.....so yeah, they'll approve the 'new credit' client no problem but as far as giving up a well vetted low risk profile level 'cost-basis'....now, that's just a silly business move on their part, ain't gonna happen just because 'we' have a 10 month old history.
As a matter of fact the unknown nature of a growing 'new' file is quite frankly a higher risk than a 10 year vetted file....so yes there is something to the thought pattern per se but make no mistake the CCC doesn't want to give up X amount of years of 'rookie' pricing until you've actually SHOWN it.

2) The dirty truth is ....this stuff is like dating ....it's ALWAYS subjective and many times unilateral, when it comes to terms....which can be fickle....

NO OFFENSE Ladies

Guy A brings flowers, opens doors is 6'2 with all his teeth....
Guy B brings better flowers, opens doors, is 6'2and a half with great teeth
and it doesn't mean SHE will offer the same terms to both guys

and no law, rule or easily determined measure exist to take away her or the CCC 's seemingly ambiguous decision making processs when it comes to exactly how far and how much either will allow you regarding a relationship with THEM......

They decide what they offer and you will scratch and or bang your head trying to figure out the logic.....welcolm to the team

Words of wisdom with a bit of humor. I appreciate it. Of course, it is more than fair to say that I haven't shown the CCC's enough. I just didn't think that I would end up getting stuck with such horrible APRs. The pre-qualification which listed the APR at 17ish... that seems all useless. I'd be happy with half the credit limit of my Venture if I were offered a lower APR even the 15-17ish.

As previously said, my plan was to PC the Venture to QS directly in a year. That seems like a bad idea now. I have come to a point of considering to straight out reject Capital One's offer on this card, and close it without activating it. I understand that I have already been triple pulled, which lowered my AAoA already, and Cap1 may even report it in the trade lines (which I am not sure if it is better to ask them if they can just not report it). What's done is done, but for an account that I intended to fully keep for long term (since it was gonna be PCed, it is not the same as closing it and opening something else), this is disappointing knowing that getting APR reduction with Cap1 is virtually impossible.

My thinking behind applying for the Venture was that, from normal regular spending, I would hit the $3,000 requirement in 3 months without problems, and I would be nicely rewarded $400 travel credit. Short tem, it is great.... long term, far from great any more. In hindsight, I might have been better off applying for Discover It Miles card instead and take advantage of 12-month 0% APR, along with NO FTF (important to me) and NO AF.

Oh well, I dare NOT spend another inquiry to app for another card now. What guarantee do I have that even if I did or do apply with Discover, that they too won't give me a 23.24% APR after the first year, even if their pre-qualification site tells me at 15.24%? Though, I'd like to believe that they somehow like me a lot seeing how they have been literally spamming with the offer mail every single week for the past 2 months!

Re: APR Question

Anonymous — Mon, 12 Sep 2016 03:03:01 GMT

@CreditDunce wrote:

I have never accepted a BT offer. Barclay keeps sending new ones. Don't think you have to accept the ones you are now seeing. They will offer more next quarter. Barclay wouldn't be my first choice for BT friendly banks, but it is up to you. Personally, if I was interested in a BT offer, I would check local CU's first.

While Barclay's has a reputation here for being quick to AA people, I should point out that they also have one of most consumer-friendly BT treatments of any bank. As far as I know, they are the only bank (at least of the big well-known ones) that will not cancel your grace period for carrying a BT and making purchases.

Re: APR Question

Anonymous — Mon, 12 Sep 2016 03:35:43 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@CreditDunce wrote:

I have never accepted a BT offer. Barclay keeps sending new ones. Don't think you have to accept the ones you are now seeing. They will offer more next quarter. Barclay wouldn't be my first choice for BT friendly banks, but it is up to you. Personally, if I was interested in a BT offer, I would check local CU's first.
While Barclay's has a reputation here for being quick to AA people, I should point out that they also have one of most consumer-friendly BT treatments of any bank. As far as I know, they are the only bank (at least of the big well-known ones) that will not cancel your grace period for carrying a BT and making purchases.

Always trying to learn something new here. Could you elaborate a little bit more on this, with the bank that cancels a grace period if you carry a BT and make purchases (while not in a promotional purchase APR I assume)?

I know for us, that Discover still offered a grace period on non promo purchases when there was a BT on the account. Anything over the minimum went to the purchases. So as long as you calculated your purchases (usually in a bonus category of course) and paid that much over the minimum you were not going to be charged interest. Same thing with capital one (although opposite of a another poster where they had a BT only). Intererst was being charged for the BT but purchases were not being charged the regular APR as long as they were paid by the due date by paying over the minimum amount.

We just saw a post where someone was doing BTs with capital one, not making purchases, but they still had a regular grace period, when most BT's usually start right when they are transferred.

I am excited to see the correct response/results to this. Its possible I have some of this mixed up. But I have helped quite a few people save a lot of money by doing debt shuffles, set up a plan to get it paid down in a timely manner. Most cases I always advocated they not make more purchases unless it was for a cash back deal or category.

Re: APR Question

Absolution16 — Mon, 12 Sep 2016 22:39:49 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@CreditDunce wrote:

I have never accepted a BT offer. Barclay keeps sending new ones. Don't think you have to accept the ones you are now seeing. They will offer more next quarter. Barclay wouldn't be my first choice for BT friendly banks, but it is up to you. Personally, if I was interested in a BT offer, I would check local CU's first.
While Barclay's has a reputation here for being quick to AA people, I should point out that they also have one of most consumer-friendly BT treatments of any bank. As far as I know, they are the only bank (at least of the big well-known ones) that will not cancel your grace period for carrying a BT and making purchases.
Always trying to learn something new here. Could you elaborate a little bit more on this, with the bank that cancels a grace period if you carry a BT and make purchases (while not in a promotional purchase APR I assume)?

I know for us, that Discover still offered a grace period on non promo purchases when there was a BT on the account. Anything over the minimum went to the purchases. So as long as you calculated your purchases (usually in a bonus category of course) and paid that much over the minimum you were not going to be charged interest. Same thing with capital one (although opposite of a another poster where they had a BT only). Intererst was being charged for the BT but purchases were not being charged the regular APR as long as they were paid by the due date by paying over the minimum amount.

We just saw a post where someone was doing BTs with capital one, not making purchases, but they still had a regular grace period, when most BT's usually start right when they are transferred.

I am excited to see the correct response/results to this. Its possible I have some of this mixed up. But I have helped quite a few people save a lot of money by doing debt shuffles, set up a plan to get it paid down in a timely manner. Most cases I always advocated they not make more purchases unless it was for a cash back deal or category.

I am also interested in this as well. +1.

My Barclay Arrival only has $1,500 limit. Based on reading some forum posts here, I am inclined to think that the most I would ever BT into that account is $300, which is exactly 20% of the CLI.... anything more, and it might make them panic, especially since I haven't been putting spend on that card after I got the promotional bonus with the initial 1k spend requirement. I could, of course, call them and ask for CLI and BT, but my experiences when I had to call them haven't been exactly pleasant, so I am not all too optimistic.

Btw, how frequent, if any, does Cap1 offer BT offer, on a card like the Venture?

Re: APR Question

Anonymous — Mon, 12 Sep 2016 22:44:55 GMT

@Absolution16 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@CreditDunce wrote:

I have never accepted a BT offer. Barclay keeps sending new ones. Don't think you have to accept the ones you are now seeing. They will offer more next quarter. Barclay wouldn't be my first choice for BT friendly banks, but it is up to you. Personally, if I was interested in a BT offer, I would check local CU's first.
While Barclay's has a reputation here for being quick to AA people, I should point out that they also have one of most consumer-friendly BT treatments of any bank. As far as I know, they are the only bank (at least of the big well-known ones) that will not cancel your grace period for carrying a BT and making purchases.
Always trying to learn something new here. Could you elaborate a little bit more on this, with the bank that cancels a grace period if you carry a BT and make purchases (while not in a promotional purchase APR I assume)?

I know for us, that Discover still offered a grace period on non promo purchases when there was a BT on the account. Anything over the minimum went to the purchases. So as long as you calculated your purchases (usually in a bonus category of course) and paid that much over the minimum you were not going to be charged interest. Same thing with capital one (although opposite of a another poster where they had a BT only). Intererst was being charged for the BT but purchases were not being charged the regular APR as long as they were paid by the due date by paying over the minimum amount.

We just saw a post where someone was doing BTs with capital one, not making purchases, but they still had a regular grace period, when most BT's usually start right when they are transferred.

I am excited to see the correct response/results to this. Its possible I have some of this mixed up. But I have helped quite a few people save a lot of money by doing debt shuffles, set up a plan to get it paid down in a timely manner. Most cases I always advocated they not make more purchases unless it was for a cash back deal or category.
I am also interested in this as well. +1.

My Barclay Arrival only has $1,500 limit. Based on reading some forum posts here, I am inclined to think that the most I would ever BT into that account is $300, which is exactly 20% of the CLI.... anything more, and it might make them panic, especially since I haven't been putting spend on that card after I got the promotional bonus with the initial 1k spend requirement. I could, of course, call them and ask for CLI and BT, but my experiences when I had to call them haven't been exactly pleasant, so I am not all too optimistic.

Btw, how frequent, if any, does Cap1 offer BT offer, on a card like the Venture?

probably when it is a year old at least.