topic Re: Is my logic correct? in Credit Cards

Is my logic correct?

Anonymous — Fri, 09 Dec 2016 02:38:25 GMT

Plan is to apply for Amex Green charge card to pay off every month to continue building credit score and earn points. Also want to apply for Amex Every Day to potentially do the 3x CLI and use it enough to continue growing CL. That way I am building my credit and earning points with Amex Green, but also will be building a solid credit line with Every Day card in case I ever have an emergency and need to make a large purchase. Is my logic correct? And can I apply for both cards at same time? Credit report and scores are in good shape. Thanks a ton everyone! So much great info in this community.

Re: Is my logic correct?

fltireguy — Fri, 09 Dec 2016 02:47:31 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Plan is to apply for Amex Green charge card to pay off every month to continue building credit score and earn points. Also want to apply for Amex Every Day to potentially do the 3x CLI and use it enough to continue growing CL. That way I am building my credit and earning points with Amex Green, but also will be building a solid credit line with Every Day card in case I ever have an emergency and need to make a large purchase. Is my logic correct? And can I apply for both cards at same time? Credit report and scores are in good shape. Thanks a ton everyone! So much great info in this community.

My personal opinion (based on current info with AMEX) would be to app for the ED first. It's looking like they arent doing HP for charge card apps for existing cardholders for some reason lately... There are a few threads on this

Also, IF I was apping for a charge card, I would go for the PRG - No AF the first year, $100 travel credit, and the 40-50K bonus makes it a much better choice than the green card. All of the charge cards apparently have the same approval criteria, green, gold, platinum....

IF you app for 2 at the same time, I believe the second will go on hold for 5-10 days...

Re: Is my logic correct?

UncleB — Fri, 09 Dec 2016 03:07:58 GMT

@fltireguy wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Plan is to apply for Amex Green charge card to pay off every month to continue building credit score and earn points. Also want to apply for Amex Every Day to potentially do the 3x CLI and use it enough to continue growing CL. That way I am building my credit and earning points with Amex Green, but also will be building a solid credit line with Every Day card in case I ever have an emergency and need to make a large purchase. Is my logic correct? And can I apply for both cards at same time? Credit report and scores are in good shape. Thanks a ton everyone! So much great info in this community.
My personal opinion (based on current info with AMEX) would be to app for the ED first. It's looking like they arent doing HP for charge card apps for existing cardholders for some reason lately... There are a few threads on this

Also, IF I was apping for a charge card, I would go for the PRG - No AF the first year, $100 travel credit, and the 40-50K bonus makes it a much better choice than the green card. All of the charge cards apparently have the same approval criteria, green, gold, platinum....

IF you app for 2 at the same time, I believe the second will go on hold for 5-10 days...

Good stuff here, I'll just add that if you app for two revolvers in the same day the second will go to review.

However, if you app for a charge (Green, Gold, etc.) and a revolver the same day, it's possible to get an instant decision on each - I've done it twice.

I also went with a Green card the first go around (I got the Green and BCP the same day), but I quickly realized I had made a mistake. Before the AF was due, I closed the Green and a month later I applied for the PRG and Delta Gold the same day (I found the 50k MR point offer on the PRG).

Historically if you app for a charge and revolver in the same day you only get one HP (actually, they do two but EX merges them into one). However as fltireguy mentioned it seems that many people are getting additional accounts - even not on the same day - and not having a HP for the new (second) account. This is fairly new so it's not quite as well-documented as the two-in-one-day, but the data points the last week or so are fairly consistent.

You've got a good plan, just give some thought to going with the PRG rather than the Green. Also remember that Amex bonuses are once-in-a-lifetime, so you really do want to wait until you get the best bonus you can find.

Edit: fixed typo

Re: Is my logic correct?

Anonymous — Fri, 09 Dec 2016 03:09:28 GMT

I really appreciate the comments so far guys. Especially with the detailed info about the Amex cards themselves. Great. Stuff. As far as the logic of how I will use the cards themselves, is that sound? Use charge card often, while building CLI on credit card for emergencies. Again thanks for all the help!

Re: Is my logic correct?

UncleB — Fri, 09 Dec 2016 03:27:27 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I really appreciate the comments so far guys. Especially with the detailed info about the Amex cards themselves. Great. Stuff. As far as the logic of how I will use the cards themselves, is that sound? Use charge card often, while building CLI on credit card for emergencies. Again thanks for all the help!

You're logic seems sound to me!

I don't think you'll have any trouble with approval, but if it were me I would go for the charge (Green or PRG) first, then the revolver. The charge cards are believed to have easier underwriting, so you could go for it first then once it's out of the way then go for your Everyday card.

I'm a big fan of Amex... my BCP is one of my favorite cards (I earn $25-$35 each month with it... almost like a "reverse" fee... LOL). Even starting out with your charge card you'll have enough spending power to buy anything you want (assuming 'normal' spend), keeping in mind you have to PIF each month. Actually, I have modest resources and my very first charge to my PRG was for $970, and they didn't flinch... I guess you might say I broke it in right...

Good luck!

Re: Is my logic correct?

fltireguy — Fri, 09 Dec 2016 03:58:52 GMT

I agree with uncleb.... BCP gets me 25-35 per month in rewards, plus an average of $50 in AMEX offers for things I would have bought anyway!!

Nice thing with the charge cards is they don't seem to affect your util.

Re: Is my logic correct?

Anonymous — Fri, 09 Dec 2016 14:56:32 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I really appreciate the comments so far guys. Especially with the detailed info about the Amex cards themselves. Great. Stuff. As far as the logic of how I will use the cards themselves, is that sound? Use charge card often, while building CLI on credit card for emergencies. Again thanks for all the help!

So let me start by saying I love Amex. Like love love love Amex. I have 4, the PRG, BCP, ED, and Hilton. I would also suggest the PRG over the Green, yes I know it has a higher AF, but the rewards are worth it, and I think they're still running the no AF for a year. The BCP is wonderful bc of the cash back. I get about $40 a month in cash back. I rarely use my ED because the PRG has taken over for that one so I plan to put my credit line on the BCP and close the ED. My Hilton is for my ebay business, shipping expenses etc. I would also suggest apping for the charge first and than the CC. Good luck! Let us know what happens

Re: Is my logic correct?

Anonymous — Fri, 09 Dec 2016 15:03:07 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
I really appreciate the comments so far guys. Especially with the detailed info about the Amex cards themselves. Great. Stuff. As far as the logic of how I will use the cards themselves, is that sound? Use charge card often, while building CLI on credit card for emergencies. Again thanks for all the help!
So let me start by saying I love Amex. Like love love love Amex. I have 4, the PRG, BCP, ED, and Hilton. I would also suggest the PRG over the Green, yes I know it has a higher AF, but the rewards are worth it, and I think they're still running the no AF for a year. The BCP is wonderful bc of the cash back. I get about $40 a month in cash back. I rarely use my ED because the PRG has taken over for that one so I plan to put my credit line on the BCP and close the ED. My Hilton is for my ebay business, shipping expenses etc. I would also suggest apping for the charge first and than the CC. Good luck! Let us know what happens

Thanks a ton for the feedback. Much appreciated.

Re: Is my logic correct?

yfan — Fri, 09 Dec 2016 18:18:12 GMT

My personal opinion is that unless your "large purchase" is a home or a car, you should only make other purchases if you have enough cash in the bank to pay it off immediately.

Re: Is my logic correct?

Anonymous — Fri, 09 Dec 2016 17:41:27 GMT

@yfan wrote:
My personal opinion is that unless your "large purchase" is a home or a car, you should only make other purchase if you have enough cash in the bank to pay it off immediately.

Probably should have clarified. I don't really have any suprises looming. As in I don't own a home. I rent. I recently bought a car, so my main concern is something going horribly wrong with the car and needing to put 4k or 5k (worse scenerio) on a card. The car is nice and I don't forsee anything like that but I want to be prepared for suprises.

Re: Is my logic correct?

UncleB — Sat, 10 Dec 2016 06:29:59 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@yfan wrote:
My personal opinion is that unless your "large purchase" is a home or a car, you should only make other purchase if you have enough cash in the bank to pay it off immediately.
Probably should have clarified. I don't really have any suprises looming. As in I don't own a home. I rent. I recently bought a car, so my main concern is something going horribly wrong with the car and needing to put 4k or 5k (worse scenerio) on a card. The car is nice and I don't forsee anything like that but I want to be prepared for suprises.

I'm in the same boat... while ideally I also think it's best to make a purchase only if you already have the money, sometimes 'life happens', and it's nice to know there's a way to take care of an immediate need.

Personally, in the event of something major and unexpected coming up it's easier to use credit for a few months than to disturb savings. (Yes, I know "it's best" to have a certain amount of liquid savings, but again, sometimes 'life happens'.)

You're plan is a good one... good luck with your Amex apps!

Re: Is my logic correct?

Anonymous — Sat, 10 Dec 2016 06:43:42 GMT

Def do the PRG over the Green.

Re: Is my logic correct?

Anonymous — Sat, 10 Dec 2016 08:08:06 GMT

Thank you UncleB

Re: Is my logic correct?

yapsalot — Sat, 10 Dec 2016 08:58:10 GMT

Uncle B,

My Amex experience with credit inquiries is not as recent but here's what happened. In May 2016, I got a BCE, then a few days later a Platinum, then a week after that a Blue from Amex. Each card resulted in a separate hard pull on Experian and a cumulative 10 point drop on FICO 8 that still has not recovered. In retrospect, I should have got the first and second card on the same day and let Experian combine the two inquires. The third card was a mistake too. My girlfriend had died a few months earlier and after I got my cards, I called Amex to let them know to close her account. The rep offered to let me take it over, along with a boatload of existing points which I'll never use anyway. The rep did advise me that my report would be pulled, and I need a third Amex card like I need a hole in my head, but I took the card.

Later I thought Amex might waive or delete 1 or 2 of the inquiries, so I called. Rep said only way to communicate with the relevant credit bureau staff was via fax. Sent fax nicely requesting removal and explaining why. No response after a month. Called again and asked for supervisor, who instantly said Amex will not remove anything and that credit reporting staff had nothing to do with it because they do not deal with inquiries only the reporting of credit lines. He did, however, credit my account for $100 for Amex's defective advice to send a fax to the wrong people to fix a problem that Amex won't fix anyway. Maybe they've since changed their policy, but it seems like a relatively screwed-up organization compared to the excellent service and accurate information I have gotten from other card companies e. g. Chase and Discover.

Re: Is my logic correct?

UncleB — Sat, 10 Dec 2016 09:30:29 GMT

@yapsalot wrote:
Uncle B,

My Amex experience with credit inquiries is not as recent but here's what happened. In May 2016, I got a BCE, then a few days later a Platinum, then a week after that a Blue from Amex. Each card resulted in a separate hard pull on Experian and a cumulative 10 point drop on FICO 8 that still has not recovered. In retrospect, I should have got the first and second card on the same day and let Experian combine the two inquires. The third card was a mistake too. My girlfriend had died a few months earlier and after I got my cards, I called Amex to let them know to close her account. The rep offered to let me take it over, along with a boatload of existing points which I'll never use anyway. The rep did advise me that my report would be pulled, and I need a third Amex card like I need a hole in my head, but I took the card.

Later I thought Amex might waive or delete 1 or 2 of the inquiries, so I called. Rep said only way to communicate with the relevant credit bureau staff was via fax. Sent fax nicely requesting removal and explaining why. No response after a month. Called again and asked for supervisor, who instantly said Amex will not remove anything and that credit reporting staff had nothing to do with it because they do not deal with inquiries only the reporting of credit lines. He did, however, credit my account for $100 for Amex's defective advice to send a fax to the wrong people to fix a problem that Amex won't fix anyway. Maybe they've since changed their policy, but it seems like a relatively screwed-up organization compared to the excellent service and accurate information I have gotten from other card companies e. g. Chase and Discover.

First of all, I'm sorry for your loss.

Each application with Amex does result in a distinct HP if done on a different day (at least until recently - see below), so your experience matches that of most of us. If you app for two cards in the same day, Amex still does two inquiries but they are merged into one HP by Experian. The notable exception has been applying for two revolvers in the same day.. .usually the second app will go to review, making the HP for that card on a different day (meaning it doesn't get merged with the first HP). This generally isn't a problem with a revolver and a charge card... you can usually do one of each in the same day with no problem (i.e. instant approval for both and only one HP).

In your case the HPs were unfortunate, but weren't in error so I'm not surprised they were unable to have them removed. It is regrettable that you were given inaccurate information by the frontline CSR, though. Personally not much annoys me more than 'spinning my wheels' for no reason.

*Note - there are recent threads that indicate that in some cases existing Amex card holders can apply for an additional (new) account and not get a HP. Historically this has only been the case if the new account was declined (with a HP only if approved). This is still fairly new, though, so at this time I would say it's still YMMV.

Re: Is my logic correct?

fltireguy — Sat, 10 Dec 2016 12:03:05 GMT

I think the previous post should be rephrased. Each approved application for an existing card member will result in a hard pool. If the application is denied, it will only be as soft.

Re: Is my logic correct?

fltireguy — Sat, 10 Dec 2016 12:03:56 GMT

*pull not pool
Why can't I edie a post from my iPhone? Lol

Re: Is my logic correct?

UncleB — Sat, 10 Dec 2016 12:43:34 GMT

@fltireguy wrote:
I think the previous post should be rephrased. Each approved application for an existing card member will result in a hard pool. If the application is denied, it will only be as soft.

If you're referring to my post, there's no need to rephrase... it's being reported in several places (including some threads on myFICO) that some existing American Express card holders are being approved for new accounts without a HP.

Here's an external link with more data points: http://www.doctorofcredit.com/amex-credit-card-approvals-without-hard-pull/

I also noted above that since this is new I personally consider it 'YMMV'.