topic Re: New MyFico Trend?? "Less is More?" in Credit Cards

New MyFico Trend?? "Less is More?"

grillandwinemaster — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 19:21:26 GMT

It seems that in the past, going back a year or two, there was a definite trend on MyFico where more was better, in regards

to open credit card accounts.

Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed a reversal of trends in which "less is more" is gaining momentum? It appears

to me that more and more members are by choice, reducing there portfolio holdings.

I recall some members being very active, that definitely were of the more is better mindset. I

a few members held credit card accounts that numbered close to the 100's?? It appears that you don't hear as much from some of

those members. I wonder if they have just lost interest, or if there hobby "got them in trouble" in some form or fashion?

Has anyone else noticed this "less is more" movement/trend? What are your thoughts on the

"MORE IS BETTER," or "LESS IS BETTER" philosophies? I'm not discounting either philosophy, just wanting input from both sides.

Re: New MyFico Trend?? "Less is More?"

Anonymous — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 19:23:14 GMT

I've noticed that as well, OP. I've always been a 'less is more' person as I only have 5 credit cards.

I read an article the other day that showed CC apps are at an all time high this year.

Re: New MyFico Trend?? "Less is More?"

Revelate — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 19:42:21 GMT

If anything I think this forum is a leading indicator for the consumer base at large.

I always found the more is better a bit dubious as a universal truth other than the AAOA buffering which certainly does exist for some folks' credit behaviors, and I find the less is better dubious for similar rationales... though I still personally lean towards the more is better route but if they get taken away from me I'm not going to cry and I'm trimming some fat anyway though it's more in CL's rather than tradelines.

Really I don't think there's any perfect number for everyone, I will state unequivocably that people should get at least 4 revolving lines and 1 installment line for modern FICO maximization, but not everyone cares about that.

Really though, the best analogy comes from cooking which I don't do very well: season to taste. That pretty much sums up how I think people should approach the number of credit cards debate, do what's right for you and ignore what others are doing.

Re: New MyFico Trend?? "Less is More?"

grillandwinemaster — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 19:29:21 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I've noticed that as well, OP. I've always been a 'less is more' person as I only have 5 credit cards.

I read an article the other day that showed CC apps are at an all time high this year.

I am also of the less is more camp. However, I wasn't always. I originally was trying to get every card

i could get my hands on. After killing my AAofA, I realized my mistake. By the end of 2017, i'm hoping to get down to

3 or 4 cards.

Re: New MyFico Trend?? "Less is More?"

rlx01 — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 19:39:16 GMT

I get the cards that maximize my rewards for my spend, no matter how many cards that ends up being.

I don't open accounts for fun. I have 9 cards and each one serves a purpose. If they don't, I PC them to something else (I.e. the CSP is a pointless card if you have a CSR, so downgrading to a FU makes sense for 1.5 UR on non bonus non-Amex spend).

Re: New MyFico Trend?? "Less is More?"

Anonymous — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 19:50:19 GMT

Maybe we are seeing a little bit more of "less is more" stuff but there are still others (e.g. the 45+ thread that is active).

I agree woitj rlx01 and others in that you should have the number of cards that you find useful (and where you are not overwhelmed) rather than getting cards for their own sake. While I feel there are often diminishing returns as you add cards, that's not always the case with things like hotel cards, where you can keep getting free nights at new chains

I would love to see a "Hey, you don't really need a CLI!" movement, but that seems a way off!

Re: New MyFico Trend?? "Less is More?"

grillandwinemaster — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 19:53:02 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

I would love to see a "Hey, you don't really need a CLI!" movement, but that seems a way off!

That would be pretty hilarious!!

although, the banks may impose that particular movement if we head down a recessionary spiral like in 08, 09

Re: New MyFico Trend?? "Less is More?"

Anonymous — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 19:58:05 GMT

@grillandwinemaster wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:

I would love to see a "Hey, you don't really need a CLI!" movement, but that seems a way off!

That would be pretty hilarious!!
although, the banks may impose that particular movement if we head down a recessionary spiral like in 08, 09

Yep. CLIs were on my mind afer a recent thread: people were discussing about whether you can get an Amex CLI every 180 days or every 6 months, and putting reminders on your phone to ask for CLIs after 182 days. I started writing a post about how horrible your life would be if you accidently ended up waiting 185 or (shudder) 190 days before a CLI. Then I remembered my 2016 resolution to be FSR at least 6 times.....

Re: New MyFico Trend?? "Less is More?"

driftless — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 19:59:41 GMT

I have been an advocate of the Less is More group but it is more Have a Real Plan advocacy. Too often folks are not in position to take the next step in their rebuild or to apply for a goal card because they do not have a Plan. At least to me, IMHO, and all other disclaimers, it is too apparent that folks apply for more cards than are rationally needed because they have had nothing but denials for so long. App Sprees strike me as any other addictive binge.

Re: New MyFico Trend?? "Less is More?"

EdMan63 — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 20:01:35 GMT

I've always been in the less is more category. But I agree, one should do whatever works best for that individual. Unfortunately many people find this forum and get caught up in the credit frenzy and open up a bunch of accounts without really knowing what works best for them. As they mature in their credit knowledge and spending habits, their needs become more clear and the inevitable "thinning of the herd" behavior begins or taking a more refined approach. We always talk about credit being a journey not a race. This is so true but most of us aren't very patient and want everything now. I don't think either approach is wrong, but if we took our time building our profiles, it would be all the better with either approach.

Re: New MyFico Trend?? "Less is More?"

austinguy907 — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 20:14:27 GMT

I learned awhile back that Quality over quantity is very useful when playing this game we call credit. When you're at rock bottom though getting an approval is like a hit of crack that lasts for about 10 mins and you're onto the next app hoping for the same high. Then you start hitting the denials but you're jonesing for another hit and keep trying to find someone to say yes. This is where the problem starts for most that have 20+ cards in their trapper keeper. Once I started grooming cards into higher limits I was more content and started letting some of them just auto close with time. I'm a firm believer and preacher of poaching CLI's instead of apping for something new at this point in my credit journey. I'm focused on growing without expanding my current lineup. I have a couple of more cards I'm waiting on them to close down the road and then I might get down to maybe 6 open CC's from where I stand now at 10 open accounts. Early on before 2008 I was interested in not doubling up on the same lender as well which led to some pretty rock solid CU accounts which are pretty much now not used except every 6 mo's to keep them alive for a backup in case I lose or a card is compromised somehow. Right now there's a good chunk of change sitting there as a backup in the neighborhood of 80K between 4 accounts.

As time goes on though some of the old "programming" starts to fade away from the whole I have to keep everything I'm approved for to it's alright if they start to fade away one by one. I don't subscribe to most of the rewards chasing though and simply focus on a healthy round up of lenders and CL's instead. I've seen most of the millennials around here are actually scared to open cards or even have more than 2-3 of them at most for fear of managing them and keeping up with the payment dates and such. With time and experience with varying types of credit we have to step in and let them know if they ever plan on taking out a mortgage they need 3 cc's with at least 2 years of history on them for most lending programs outside of getting ripped off with an FHA loan where they pay MI upfront at a higher rate than private MI.

I've noticed a couple of people here and there shying away from maxing out their exposure with CLI's as well. While it confuses me a bit why you wouldn't want your limit to be higher than it currently is maybe it's the mindset and approach I take of making a mental limit of 10% of whatever they're handing out instead of thinking I could max it out and it would take forever to get out of debt. There are the algorithms that lenders have that when they see a rush on utilization they automatically kick in a CLD to prevent over exposure. So, while you're escalating balances they have a stop gap for anything out of the ordinary not only for their safety but to prevent a run up on all limits and then waiting several months and putting a BK7 on them.

I guess I just like a wide solid foundation for my pyramid to sit on. That would be the CU cards mentioned above on each corner. Fill in some of the steps with misc cards like Macy's, Sam's, Chase, Cap1 and at the top AX/DS.

Re: New MyFico Trend?? "Less is More?"

Anonymous — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 20:36:36 GMT

LOL 😂 @austin comparing cc approvals to crack! I literally imagined Pookie from New Jack City saying "come on, I just need one more!" 😂

Re: New MyFico Trend?? "Less is More?"

Revelate — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 21:53:02 GMT

austinguy907 wrote:
I've noticed a couple of people here and there shying away from maxing out their exposure with CLI's as well. While it confuses me a bit why you wouldn't want your limit to be higher than it currently is maybe it's the mindset and approach I take of making a mental limit of 10% of whatever they're handing out instead of thinking I could max it out and it would take forever to get out of debt. There are the algorithms that lenders have that when they see a rush on utilization they automatically kick in a CLD to prevent over exposure. So, while you're escalating balances they have a stop gap for anything out of the ordinary not only for their safety but to prevent a run up on all limits and then waiting several months and putting a BK7 on them.

Well since I'm one that prattles on about lowering exposure, to be fair I live a pretty minimalist lifestyle: I'll still go on spending sprees and I'm not anti-materialistic, but I typically get something I need and then don't replace it for a decade or more. Cars, TV's, about the only exception to that is computers which historically are one every threeish years (but I haven't paid for all of those myself either but I digress).

As a result, unless my financial situation detoriates and I'm heading towards a BK anyway, what "real" need do I have for even 50k in lines let alone the 150K I have now? I just paid all my property taxes, and it came out to 6K on 150k worth of CL's on a 22K card... that's trivial utilization even from a FICO perspective, and that's big expenditure in my life, and I'm still going to write a check for it after it posts (hey might as well set the high balance).

Lenders do make a calculation on overall exposure, we know that absolutely time and again from multiple people's reports. My limits are pretty close to 1:1 with my income currently, and at least under the current market it's really really easy to establish more limits: I have a tentative approval for that First Tech card which I only need like 5K on for incidentals though their minimum is 10K, and even with all my credit issues they still gave me the maximum 25K on that tradeline as a new customer even... FFS, why lender, and why do I need that?

Also if we do get another pull back, they'll look at CL vs. spending for everyone: a big honking limit on a low use card is just begging to get whacked and that's just how fractional reserve banking works. I'd rather be way down the list if, or honestly, when, that occurrs again.

Really I expect I'll level off somewhere around 100k in limits, which is still way more than I rationally need. I'd like 40K or so on my primary travel card, I can use 25K or so on my default spender (tax payments et al.), but I can sort just about everything else out on a 1-2 or at worst case 5K tradeline for those with minimums. If I get a balance carrying card sure I want that as high as possible, but with a HELOC that doesn't make as much sense to me as it once did.

I know I'm an outlier on this forum, but really, when I take a hard and honest look at my financial life, I just don't need exorbitant limits, and after the Amex CLI's to get me to a near 10K line which springboarded everything else, I only did the one flier CLI because wtfelse am I going to use my Transunion report for anyway other than testing inquiry binning I guess since no lender I care about is going to be pulling Transunion for me.

In a similar vein, in my most recent interview the director I'm going to be working for brought up a reason that a bunch of his techies head off to the other side of the company to manage the half billion dollars worth of server equipment (which I had a hard time not rolling my eyes and asking why the hell did they spend so much there, people are so bad with money in companies just like their personal lives but I digress), but while that was something which would've been "cool" for me 15 years ago, now, give me the organizational problems and let me go find a technical solution for them: that's what's exciting for me today, helping the rest of the group or in this case company do better. By analogy, limits for me now, pretty darned similar: 25K approval which is my highest CL ever /shrug.

I do hope most people get to that point in their credit lives too, transactors don't need much in the way of limits and I intend to remain one for the rest of my credit using life when it comes to credit cards anyway... better ways to finance debt than a rewards card at 20% APR or worse.

Re: New MyFico Trend?? "Less is More?"

Anonymous — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 21:29:38 GMT

I agree, less is more...I closed several cards down mainly because I was stressed out. Trying to decide which one to use to keep who happy. Then I did it. I asked myself which ones I like best and which ones I had to worry about. So this year I closed the following.

Discover $4500

Marvel $10000

Barclays Cash forward $6000

Barclays Ring $5000

Citi Diamond $1500

Comenity Dental First $7900

The ones I will keep are in my siggy. I will be combing my Slate limit into my Freedom Unlimited just as soon as 30 days from last transaction arrives and I will be down one more.

Re: New MyFico Trend?? "Less is More?"

Anonymous — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 20:50:08 GMT

@austinguy907 wrote:
I learned awhile back that Quality over quantity is very useful when playing this game we call credit. When you're at rock bottom though getting an approval is like a hit of crack that lasts for about 10 mins and you're onto the next app hoping for the same high.

I've noticed a couple of people here and there shying away from maxing out their exposure with CLI's as well. While it confuses me a bit why you wouldn't want your limit to be higher than it currently is maybe it's the mindset and approach I take of making a mental limit of 10% of whatever they're handing out instead of thinking I could max it out and it would take forever to get out of debt.

For me, quality over quantity applies equally to CLs. Cards such as Freedom max out their usefulness at $1,500 a quarter in spend. A $20K limit isn't a whole lot of use on that card. So I keep CLI requests on cards where I have a need for high spend (usually MS, but the same applies for real spend). Part of this is I don't buy into utilization buffer arguments, score needs maximizing only rarely, and if you can PIF, you can pay before statement cut on those situations. (And if you can't PIF, focus more on that than on getting CLIs!)

Re: New MyFico Trend?? "Less is More?"

Anonymous — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 20:57:59 GMT

I just closed all my store cards but Amazon and Overstock. I'm of the less is more now as well. It's too hard to gain history with so many. It's a PITA to remember to use each one.

I have 5 cards I use regularly.... and 2 store cards. I really don't want any more but if one came out where the into bonus was good or the card itself was unique or too good to pass up I would go for it... but I really love my Discover and USBank Cash+ so it would take a lot to make me not use those as my 2 daily cards.

Re: New MyFico Trend?? "Less is More?"

AverageJoesCredit — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 20:58:15 GMT

More is less and less is more.....

Meesa likea this....

Gonna be my motta for 2017

Re: New MyFico Trend?? "Less is More?"

kuku4koco — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 21:40:49 GMT

I believe 'Less is More'... when I first came to Myfico... I was extremely uneducated. Having filed for BK in 2010, I didn't think I would ever be elgible for credit again. So I didn't have any. At most, I thought I would have to wait 10 years. Once I started reading here... I became very excited, started apping/doing sct and ended up with more cards than I even needed/probably would use. After two years of educating myself, I've decided (for myself) that I only NEED about 5 cards. I have 16. I use 10 regularly. So, I still have work to do. Only now in the other direction.... (Quality vs. Quantity).

I think the main thing to remember is, you can/should only have/use what your income will support. That doesn't mean high income should necessarily have a sh*t ton of cards/high CL... nor does that mean low incomes can't have ANY. It just means to live within your means... People lose their jobs everyday, the recession was a complete nightmare and could very well happen again. I think there are two camps of thought here on Myfico... it's either 1. Get whatever and all you can (i.e. "There's still money on the table!! Go get it!!") or 2. Learn from your/others' mistakes on how to be responsible in obtaining and using credit.

I don't understand the CLI chasers... I just don't get the point of that at all. Yes, I get that no one wants to have 'toy limits' those cards are incredibly hard to use, utilization concerns, etc. But, the desire to have exessively high CL's or CLI chasing... I don't get. Yeah ok, it's all relative and everybody's needs vary, but I've seen more than a few on here that do it 'just because they can'. Bragging rights? Ego? It can be a dangerous game to play for newbies and youngsters just starting out in the world of credit. This forum can be very persuasive and influential... Peer pressure exists no matter the age, economic background, etc. This forum (in and of itself) can be like crack! Be careful!!!

I've learned to take the good and the bad with a grain of salt... everyone's profile and credit needs vary. This forum can be/is very beneficial when used as a tool to LEARN how to improve/make your credit work for you.

Best wishes to all in the coming New Year!!

Re: New MyFico Trend?? "Less is More?"

Anonymous — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 21:32:43 GMT

I think the goal of most should be to be able to put everything on credit-
1)to get rewarded on most all spending.
2)Maximize your rewards with as much simplicity as possible.. Have cards that offer more for your bigger spending categories.. smaller categories eventuallt arent worth its own card
3)Be able to spend as much as you typically would on any given card and overall have Util at under 10%
4)Have some sense of padding/back up to keep file thick enough to be able to absorb change without majorly impacting credit.

Everyone will differ in their personal needs to do this. $2500 credit between 2 cards might be sufficient for one person, while another needs 20 cards with $250k total credit to accomplish the same goal.

Re: New MyFico Trend?? "Less is More?"

Anonymous — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 21:36:00 GMT

For me, for example- Im just about where I need to be. I'd like to get my Costco card's CL a bit higher (at 5k now) in order to utiluze the travel rewards for a big trip while still keeping util under 10% on that card.. most the rest are sufficient- some higher than needed (BCE @ 23.3k for example).