topic Re: The best of the best and super-prime CUs? in Credit Cards

The best of the best and super-prime CUs?

galahad15 — Mon, 09 Jan 2017 03:33:20 GMT

Just wanted to get some thoughts and input, what CUs do you regard as the best of the best, and the most super-prime?

Personally in mho, I would rate the CUs in the first line of my desktop sig as being my own faves, but then again I may be a lil biased lol b/c I've been approved for their card products already. For those who are on mobile and can't see my desktop sig, my fave CU picks would be (in no particular order):

(1) PACU (offers a card as low as 7.50% F, with excellent, WEMC-level card benefits, plus rewards program)

(2) BEFCU (offers a card as low as 4.99% F, may have a rewards program as well but not 100% sure?)

(3) Unify FCU (offers cards as low as 5.24% V and 8.99% F, although no rewards programs AFAIK)

Any others anyone wants to pls add to the list of their favorfite CUs and the ones they think are the very best?

Re: The best of the best and super-prime CUs?

dragontears — Mon, 09 Jan 2017 03:41:10 GMT

Depends on what you think "best" is. From what I have read you like low APR cards. I only have one CU card specifically for low APR (6.5% before the last rate hike) but I rarely use it because my bank cards have superior rewards and I rarely need to carry a balance

Re: The best of the best and super-prime CUs?

Anonymous — Mon, 09 Jan 2017 05:06:52 GMT

@dragontears wrote:
Depends on what you think "best" is. From what I have read you like low APR cards. I only have one CU card specifically for low APR (6.5% before the last rate hike) but I rarely use it because my bank cards have superior rewards and I rarely need to carry a balance

This! For example, for heavy gas users, the Penfed Cash Rewards card is hard to beat (or Fort Knox), and other people here like NFCU for large starting limits on accounts with less than perfect scores.

Re: The best of the best and super-prime CUs?

wasCB14 — Mon, 09 Jan 2017 05:32:26 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@dragontears wrote:
Depends on what you think "best" is. From what I have read you like low APR cards. I only have one CU card specifically for low APR (6.5% before the last rate hike) but I rarely use it because my bank cards have superior rewards and I rarely need to carry a balance
This! For example, for heavy gas users, the Penfed Cash Rewards card is hard to beat (or Fort Knox), and other people here like NFCU for large starting limits on accounts with less than perfect scores.

"Prime" is pretty meaningless once you deviate from the literal meaning (an APR currently 3.75%).

Like your PACU card sounds like it could offer a lot...but as someone who generally doesn't care about CLs, even I have to say a $2k CL seems like a PITA. What's the value of a low APR card if it barely lets you carry a balance?

Re: The best of the best and super-prime CUs?

Anonymous — Mon, 09 Jan 2017 06:54:07 GMT

@galahad15 wrote:
Just wanted to get some thoughts and input, what CUs do you regard as the best of the best, and the most super-prime?

Personally in mho, I would rate the CUs in the first line of my desktop sig as being my own faves, but then again I may be a lil biased lol b/c I've been approved for their card products already. For those who are on mobile and can't see my desktop sig, my fave CU picks would be (in no particular order):

(1) PACU (offers a card as low as 7.50% F, with excellent, WEMC-level card benefits, plus rewards program)
(2) BEFCU (offers a card as low as 4.99% F, may have a rewards program as well but not 100% sure?)
(3) Unify FCU (offers cards as low as 5.24% V and 8.99% F, although no rewards programs AFAIK)

Any others anyone wants to pls add to the list of their favorfite CUs and the ones they think are the very best?

I would say without a doubt 2 is the best. You were a trooper in applying for BEFCU, taking a chance on something YOU wanted. Many of us speculate/overspeculate on things, but you chose to just go right for what you wanted, took action, applied, and got approved! BRAVO

I don't have any favorite credit unions. As long as they have a fixed rate card that doesn't have fees or the fees are at least reasonable, paired with high yield checking, ideally 3%, but 5%+ ideal. Or a mixture of both between multiple institutions. I like my old unique small town credit union because it is not open to the public, offers remarkably low rates for all types of loans, over 2% on up to 25k high yield checking, multiple fixed rate credit cards with or without rewards, and these cards all function as a line of credit with no fees, so no need for CLOCs/PLOCs. I also despise credit unions that have many products but don't educate their customers on the best options. Encouraging folks with excellent credit to use HELOCs to pay off CC debt when they have the ability to do a debt shuffle, or open a new card and balance transfer. Let alone, don't offer resources or target the problem.

I commend Galahad15 on the huge change in lineup in the last year. Limits have grown generously. This user experienced the economic crash in 2008 and since then has been successfully able time and time again to reclaim portions of what was once held in the past. This person uses credit wisely and in an eccentric way. Good. Has a nice mixture of points/rewards with an abundance of ultra low single digit fixed rate cards and a few variable. Scores are constantly going up, all 800's. Pretty powerful stuff.

Loving the realization that this users needs are better suited with niche products. Its imperative that a person not only knows what they want, but are willing to take risks in moderation, and always be willing to learn.

I think the best part is all the diversification with institutions. Realizing the importance of building loyalty with each one. The two FNBO cards demonstrate this, as well as the two with Unify, and BoA.

I would think about the grand scheme of things. How can this be responsibly taken to the next level? How can all of this be leveraged into something more? Whatever the case, here's to you, and an excellent start to 2017!

Re: The best of the best and super-prime CUs?

Revelate — Mon, 09 Jan 2017 10:05:50 GMT

Niche use case but if you need C+P First Tech FCU and UNFCU are the only games in town and probably make any list of "best" if you need to sort that.

TBH there's just not enough data on individual CU's here, of which there are hundreds, but we get a couple which get popular and then into the common lore here; first tech offers 3x travel, 2x dining card for $75 (waived first year) with a minimum line of 25K and a max of 100k without forex/BT/CA fees, WEMC and C+P for example; that's not a bad option for a bunch of people, not the best, but potentially worth considering. I would've done OK with that card, though the CSR was a better fit for me and my use case for the primary travel card.

There's probably a bunch of others from virtually unknown CU's here, though I do greatly appreciate the lists some folks put together on CU offerings as I likely wouldn't find them on my own.

Re: The best of the best and super-prime CUs?

Credit_hawk — Mon, 09 Jan 2017 13:06:37 GMT

@galahad15 wrote:
Just wanted to get some thoughts and input, what CUs do you regard as the best of the best, and the most super-prime?

Personally in mho, I would rate the CUs in the first line of my desktop sig as being my own faves, but then again I may be a lil biased lol b/c I've been approved for their card products already. For those who are on mobile and can't see my desktop sig, my fave CU picks would be (in no particular order):

(1) PACU (offers a card as low as 7.50% F, with excellent, WEMC-level card benefits, plus rewards program)
(2) BEFCU (offers a card as low as 4.99% F, may have a rewards program as well but not 100% sure?)
(3) Unify FCU (offers cards as low as 5.24% V and 8.99% F, although no rewards programs AFAIK)

Any others anyone wants to pls add to the list of their favorfite CUs and the ones they think are the very best?

Prime is subjective. One person's prime is another's subprime. The only banks I know for sure are substandard is Credit One and First Premier.

Re: The best of the best and super-prime CUs?

galahad15 — Mon, 09 Jan 2017 14:51:25 GMT

Many thanks for the generous compliments jfriend, that is very nice of you to say and I deeply appreciate it!

Re: The best of the best and super-prime CUs?

galahad15 — Mon, 09 Jan 2017 15:00:58 GMT

@Revelate wrote:
Niche use case but if you need C+P First Tech FCU and UNFCU are the only games in town and probably make any list of "best" if you need to sort that.

TBH there's just not enough data on individual CU's here, of which there are hundreds, but we get a couple which get popular and then into the common lore here; first tech offers 3x travel, 2x dining card for $75 (waived first year) with a minimum line of 25K and a max of 100k without forex/BT/CA fees, WEMC and C+P for example; that's not a bad option for a bunch of people, not the best, but potentially worth considering. I would've done OK with that card, though the CSR was a better fit for me and my use case for the primary travel card.

There's probably a bunch of others from virtually unknown CU's here, though I do greatly appreciate the lists some folks put together on CU offerings as I likely wouldn't find them on my own.

Thanks for providing the interesting info on the C+P First Tech FCU and UNFCU credit unions; very good to know! They definitely also have some very nice APRs on their cards...

Re: The best of the best and super-prime CUs?

galahad15 — Mon, 09 Jan 2017 18:08:36 GMT

@wasCB14 wrote:
"Prime" is pretty meaningless once you deviate from the literal meaning (an APR currently 3.75%).

Like your PACU card sounds like it could offer a lot...but as someone who generally doesn't care about CLs, even I have to say a $2k CL seems like a PITA. What's the value of a low APR card if it barely lets you carry a balance?

Agreed and a very valid point that the CL is low. My current objective is to try to grow the CL over time, if hopefully at all possible. IME, I would rather be approved for a card that I apply for with a low limit, and still get the approval, even though it's a low SL. When I was first approved about a year to a year and a half ago from Unify, they gave me a higher but still relatively low SL, around ~$3k - $3.5k IIRC, which over time I was able to get increased to a present CL of $15k -- granted, I will readily admit that it did take about 3-4 total HPs to get there. I also have a US Bank Cash+ card, denied on initial app and then approved on recon, with a CL of $500. I'm not super-thrilled that the limit is $500 -- which means I have to make multiple monthly payments to keep the util low -- but again, I'd still rather be approved with a low SL than not have the card at all, since low starting limits can always potentially grow if you give them enough time and usage.

Re: The best of the best and super-prime CUs?

manyquestions — Mon, 09 Jan 2017 17:31:52 GMT

I like Penfed and Navy because my interests at this point in time are high limits and rewards cards. I always pay in full, so I don't pay attention to APR.

Re: The best of the best and super-prime CUs?

happypill — Mon, 09 Jan 2017 18:04:35 GMT

My favorite feature of any CU credit card I have heard of is the 3.3% rewards on travel, dining & gas for the Security Serivce FCU Power Travel Rewards card. Ths card also offers an APR that is low for a rewards card at 10% and 7.9% balance transfer APR. It also offers secondary features like 120 price protection (I think a lot of other 'premium' cards offer 60 or 90 days), worldwide car rental insurance, baggage and travel delay and more. It also has zero fees for balance transfer, cash advance or foreign transactions. Truly an awesome travel/dining/business card and the only untouchable for me now that Sallie Mae is dying. Of course, this card is great for me because I have significant spend in travel & dining, so it might not be as valuable for everyone else.

The other card that comes to mind is the UNFCU Elite card. It's the only card I've seen that explicitly states they offer a $100k credit limit (I know there are a lot of cards with NPSL but actual spending power is probably a lot less than $100k in most cases) and at least one person here at myFICO has achieved that. By my way of thinking, people with superior financial resources and credit do not carry balances, they simply pay everything off as soon as they get the bill. That's why in their early existance, the Amex & Diner's Club charge cards (PIF every billing cycle of 1-2 months) were at the top of the super premium heap. Only when they decided to cater to plebians did Amex start to offer credit cards with limits & APRs. So, the $100k limit is a true rarity and only achievable by those with impeccable credit. Low APRs probably appeal to people who potentially need to carry a balance - in other words they don't have the cash to just pay it all off at any time.

Re: The best of the best and super-prime CUs?

galahad15 — Mon, 09 Jan 2017 18:50:19 GMT

@dragontears wrote:
Depends on what you think "best" is. From what I have read you like low APR cards. I only have one CU card specifically for low APR (6.5% before the last rate hike) but I rarely use it because my bank cards have superior rewards and I rarely need to carry a balance

Many forum users have mentioned they always PIF on all cards, and so APR is not important to them. For me personally, I have a slightly different cc philosophy, in that I don't regard PIF and revolving as 2 mutually-exclusive options, where one and only one of those 2 options is the valid one to be utilized at any given time. I have my cards divided into 2 groups: first, the most generous rewards cards, which I faithfully PIF every month. The second group of cards are the cards with ultra-low APRs, that I will actively use if I ever choose or opt to revolve a balance on them. Some of the low-APR cards also have cashback rewards programs, but I see their cashback features as secondary to the primary purpose of being revolving cards. So it doesn't have to be a binary choice of only PIF or only revolve, you can always have the best of both worlds in each card category!

I know that some may say that 0% promo cards are the best cards to revolve a balance on, vs. low-APR cards. In theory I would agree, except that in practice, there are only so many 0% cards a person can apply for in any given timeframe without hurting their FICO scores. Plus, if you have to keep transferring existing balances onto new 0% cards and with certain exceptions, you're most likely going to be hit with a new BT fee, every time you do a new BT. Instead of having to micromanage BT promo timeframes and do multiple BTs ad infinitum, I prefer to keep my revolving balances simple, and on one or more single-digit APR cards, preferably fixed-APR cards.

Finally, to quote or paraphrase someone much wiser than I on the forums (sorry as I forget the poster's name atm), "The interest rate (on a card in itself) can be a reward". Or in other words, just as cashback rewards, intro bonuses, and other tangible card program rewards count as valid rewards, a low interest rate can be its own type of reward, depending on how you look at the overall equation. I guess maybe that's one reason why my philosophy on ccs may a little different than some MyFicoers, since if a low interest rate by itself can be counted as a meaningful cc reward and in the same category as cashback, points, and travel perks, APRs could conceivably still matter a little bit more after all sometimes -- and even when a person pays their cards in full?

Re: The best of the best and super-prime CUs?

Credit_hawk — Mon, 09 Jan 2017 18:53:23 GMT

I say do whatever makes you happy. If low APR cards are important go for them. Have you ever thought of just taking a loan out at a low rate if you need it? These 0% APR's are hard to compete with. Interest is so low that banks give it away like its candy. They will even extend them after the 18 month 0% if you ask or give you another year at 3% or less or sometimes slightly more. I guess what I mean is it's all in what you think is worthwhile. I like having you around because you're a different perspective from most of us who don't actively seek it out but will be glad to take it when offered.

Re: The best of the best and super-prime CUs?

happypill — Mon, 09 Jan 2017 19:07:36 GMT

Galahad15, the problem with your theory is that everything has a cost. A sign-on bonus costs the bank something. Rewards cost the bank something. A low and promo APRs costs the bank something. A high limit costs the bank something (in terms of risk). Features like free hotel rooms, travel lounges, car rental insurance, etc. all cost the banks something. Of course, banks aren't in the business if giving things away for free (that's not a business really). They offer these things to entice users into using their cards and ultimately, to make money off of them.

So, since every benefit a bank offers costs something and banks don't want to lose money, they cannot possibly offer everything that might be valuable to a customer. Otherwise, we'd see cards with $2000 sign-on bonuses, 10% rewards and 0% APR. Certainly, that would entice a lot of customers to sign-up and use the cards, but the banks would lose money, so they have to tailor their cards to offer some things, while making money in other areas. It would be similar to looking for a car that offers the performance of an exotic sports car, seats 8 and can tow a boat.

The reality is, cards that offer low APR do not also offer the best benefits and rewards; and all cards have trade-offs. I can't think of a low APR card that also offers a $400-500 sign-on bonus. I can't think of a no-AF card that offers free hotel nights. I can't think of any low APR or no-AF card that offers airport lounge access or elite travel benefits. I can't think of any airline or hotel partnered cards (which tend to have the most lucrative rewards) that offers a truly low APR. So, yes it is possible to get a low APR and some type of rewards, but it's not possible currently to get the best rewards on any cards with the lowest APRs. It's simply up to each user to determine what is most valuable to them.

Now, your comment on how a low APR could be rewarding to people who always PIF? I don't follow, could you explain? I can see the benefit of having a low APR card as a back-up even if you always PIF, just for emergency I guess (savings would be better), but trying to force a low APR onto every rewards card? That's like trying to attach a trailer hitch for your Airstream on the back of your Ferrari. It's just silly.

Re: The best of the best and super-prime CUs?

Anonymous — Mon, 09 Jan 2017 19:24:39 GMT

@galahad15 wrote:
Many forum users have mentioned they always PIF on all cards, and so APR is not important to them. For me personally, I have a slightly different cc philosophy, in that I don't regard PIF and revolving as 2 mutually-exclusive options, where one and only one of those 2 options is the valid one to be utilized at any given time. I have my cards divided into 2 groups: first, the most generous rewards cards, which I faithfully PIF every month. The second group of cards are the cards with ultra-low APRs, that I will actively use if I ever choose or opt to revolve a balance on them. Some of the low-APR cards also have cashback rewards programs, but I see their cashback features as secondary to the primary purpose of being revolving cards. So it doesn't have to be a binary choice of only PIF or only revolve, you can always have the best of both worlds in each card category!

I think for some of us though it is binary. As someone who always PIF, for normal spending the only reason for carrying a balance would be if I had an opportunity to use the money for something that would earn more. And while that is certainly possible from time to time, on anything much more than 0%, it is either not very profiitable or not very risk free. Of course, in an emergency, after savings, it can be good to have a low APR card, but to my mind this is only highly useful for a limited set of emergencies, those that don't last very long and I can look back and say "Great, I only had to pay 5% APR rather than 12%" If it's much longer term, it doesn't help very much, as I have to switch to higher APR cards anyway, if I am lucky enough not to get those cancelled.

So as I am focussed on rewards, I don't search for low APR cards. My Penfed is about 10%, which will do in a short-term emergency, not a huge difference over 5% on the CL involved.

For those that might well want to carry a balance much more often, I agree your approach makes sense: good reward cards for which you will PIF, and low APR cards for purchases you don't want to (or can't) PIF.

Re: The best of the best and super-prime CUs?

galahad15 — Mon, 09 Jan 2017 19:47:53 GMT

@happypill wrote:

Now, your comment on how a low APR could be rewarding to people who always PIF? I don't follow, could you explain? I can see the benefit of having a low APR card as a back-up even if you always PIF, just for emergency I guess (savings would be better), but trying to force a low APR onto every rewards card? That's like trying to attach a trailer hitch for your Airstream on the back of your Ferrari. It's just silly.

The idea behind the low-APR theory I mentioned is that APR, in and of itself, can be a rewards feature on a credit card. You would still have cards divided into 2 main camps though: (1) higher-APR, higher-rewards cards; and (2) low-APR cards with low- or no-rewards, so that each set of cards can fulfill its intended purpose. The intent is not to force a low APR onto every rewards card. But for the low APR cards group though, the APR becomes the actual reward. That's why it could be of potential use, even if someone is the type of spender to PIF -- because s/he is "rewarded" by the cc lender by having the absolute lowest-possible APR available to him or her, and also of course based on his or her individual credit qualifications.

Re: The best of the best and super-prime CUs?

wasCB14 — Mon, 09 Jan 2017 20:58:57 GMT

I'm in the binary group. When savings accounts pay so little, there's 0% and then there's everything else. I don't even carry at 1.99% (though I do usually push payments to not arrive until the day they are due).

Ideally, CC APRs should only be a temporary concern...keeping the interest we pay to a minimum while we build/rebuild savings. Once we have savings, APRs really don't matter, and CLs only need to be adequate for our spending.

But given how much attention in the CC forum can sometimes go to maximizing CLs (to minimize utilization) and minimize APRs, I sometimes get the impression that the push to improve the amount and terms of available credit can lead some people to feel they don't actually need to save much money. I'm not sure of the extent to which my impression is accurate.

Re: The best of the best and super-prime CUs?

Anonymous — Mon, 09 Jan 2017 21:07:59 GMT

@wasCB14 wrote:

But given how much attention in the CC forum can sometimes go to maximizing CLs (to minimize utilization) and minimize APRs, I sometimes get the impression that the push to improve the amount and terms of available credit can lead some people to feel they don't actually need to save much money. I'm not sure of the extent to which my impression is accurate.

That would be a good thread: savings to CL ratio! I see where the impression comes from, with people referring to total CL as if it was an actual asset.

Re: The best of the best and super-prime CUs?

wasCB14 — Tue, 10 Jan 2017 02:35:35 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@wasCB14 wrote:

But given how much attention in the CC forum can sometimes go to maximizing CLs (to minimize utilization) and minimize APRs, I sometimes get the impression that the push to improve the amount and terms of available credit can lead some people to feel they don't actually need to save much money. I'm not sure of the extent to which my impression is accurate.
That would be a good thread: savings to CL ratio! I see where the impression comes from, with people referring to total CL as if it was an actual asset.

Or even something like:

TA : PA : LS : CL

TA: Total assets (PA plus residence, personal auto, any vacation home or collectibles, etc.)

PA: Productive assets (LS plus stocks/bonds, investment real estate, equipment/inventory for a business, retirement accounts, etc.)

LS: Liquid, accessible cash savings

CL: Credit limit

The people with more unusual ratios (at both extremes) might hesitate to share, though.