topic Re: Chase pulling wrong scores???? in Credit Cards

Chase pulling wrong scores????

Anonymous — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 23:21:40 GMT

So my Exp as of today on CCT and on my recent approval letter from Amex is 656. But I got denied for Chase Amazon on 4/23 and they pulled an Ex of 593. That's dead wrong. By a long shot. My other approvals pulled my scores correctly two weeks ago which is 656. What's the deal with Chase? Makes me want to recon.

Re: Chase pulling wrong scores????

Anonymous — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 23:29:57 GMT

Sorry for the denial bluffcitynomad, and i thought the chase amazon card was one of the easier cards to get from chase. But i believe that chase has its own scoring model and does not use your fico 8 score. Someone correct me if im wrong. It wouldn't hurt to recon though since you already took the HP. Good luck if you decide to recon. Keep us posted if you do.

Re: Chase pulling wrong scores????

Anonymous — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 00:20:51 GMT

Chase does use their own scoring system. I applied and was approved for the Chase Amazon Prime Visa about 2 months ago. While Chase pulled both my Experian and Equifax reports, they ultimately used their own "Card Acquisition Risk Score" (CARS). It upset me as my CARS score is in the 650s, while both my Experian and Equifax scores are in the 730s. This explained my $2,000 credit limit.

Re: Chase pulling wrong scores????

Creditplz — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 00:26:18 GMT

Chase uses their internal risk score, surprisingly mine is 4-5 points higher then my Fico8 (781), this time last year it was like 633 with a 720 Fico8.

Re: Chase pulling wrong scores????

Anonymous — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 08:53:33 GMT

Does anyone know what may cause your CARS score to be higher or lower than your FICO 08?

Re: Chase pulling wrong scores????

JustcallmeTM — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 10:45:26 GMT

Someone should check those Chase scores to vantagescore and see if they are similar. I have been reading that in 2016 8+ billion credit card applications used vantagescore not fico to approve the cards, the banks won't tell you that either.

From consistent reading they have been seperating credit cards from mortgages and loans. More banks are using vantagescore for credit cards and CLI and FICO for everything else. Some people won't believe it but they have to do there own HW to see for themselves than just 1 person mentioning it. Vantagescore was created by the 3 CB agencies and with vantagescore 4 coming out the CB's are forcing banks to update there information for accuracy.

For all we know there internal scoring system is probably no different than what vantagescore or is comparable.

Re: Chase pulling wrong scores????

Revelate — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 11:17:09 GMT

@JustcallmeTM wrote:
Someone should check those Chase scores to vantagescore and see if they are similar. I have been reading that in 2016 8+ billion credit card applications used vantagescore not fico to approve the cards, the banks won't tell you that either.

From consistent reading they have been seperating credit cards from mortgages and loans. More banks are using vantagescore for credit cards and CLI and FICO for everything else. Some people won't believe it but they have to do there own HW to see for themselves than just 1 person mentioning it. Vantagescore was created by the 3 CB agencies and with vantagescore 4 coming out the CB's are forcing banks to update there information for accuracy.

For all we know there internal scoring system is probably no different than what vantagescore or is comparable.

Different score range, it's not Vantage.

Chase used to UW on Vantage at one point for some products / customers (my Freedom denial pre-recon came with a VS score) but they were trialing an internal algorithm as well back in 2013/2014 IIRC along with Vantage.

They've since shifted to internal for a bunch of their apps, haven't seen anything which matches Vantage in years from Chase, and if it were FICO it'd say FICO.

Just like there's no real comparison between FICO and Vantage scoring (other than broad strokes, BK or missed payments bad for example) there isn't any correlation to Chase's internal model. Also I assure you Chase has the resources to develop their own algorithm, heck the much smaller lender I worked at developed their own algorithms, Chase likely spends orders of magnitude more money on theirs... comparing Chase's filings vs. the bureaus or vs. FICO's, well, lots more resources and a whole bunch of internal data too makes for a winning scenario.

Re: Chase pulling wrong scores????

JustcallmeTM — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 11:43:52 GMT

Understandable I know most banks have there own internal scoring system for the most part just don't know which they lean on more FICO or Vantage to determine how they score it.

I would assume going forward Vantagescore will become more popular and used more for credit cards to stop the abuse on it. Only way to stop churners/high CL chasers/Card collectors and padders and so on is to fully adopt Vantagescore on all CC apps since it will severely impact your score for stuff like that.

Re: Chase pulling wrong scores????

fltireguy — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 12:25:38 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
So my Exp as of today on CCT and on my recent approval letter from Amex is 656. But I got denied for Chase Amazon on 4/23 and they pulled an Ex of 593. That's dead wrong. By a long shot. My other approvals pulled my scores correctly two weeks ago which is 656. What's the deal with Chase? Makes me want to recon.

What exactly does it say on the denial letter from Chase?

Does it show that they pulled Ex, and then does it reference your CARS score? (CARS is Chase's internal score)

Also, remember that there are MANY different FICO version as well...

Re: Chase pulling wrong scores????

Anonymous — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 13:37:58 GMT

@JustcallmeTM wrote:
Understandable I know most banks have there own internal scoring system for the most part just don't know which they lean on more FICO or Vantage to determine how they score it.

I would assume going forward Vantagescore will become more popular and used more for credit cards to stop the abuse on it. Only way to stop churners/high CL chasers/Card collectors and padders and so on is to fully adopt Vantagescore on all CC apps since it will severely impact your score for stuff like that.

I think that's speculation. VantageScore will not be taking over FICO any time soon. The "only way to stop churners" is to adopt VantageScore? You haven't been following real churning news lately, have you? 5/24, 8/65, 6/6, 2/90, 1/16, 24-mo rule, once in lifetime. The score is never the point

Re: Chase pulling wrong scores????

Anonymous — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 12:53:18 GMT

@fltireguy wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
So my Exp as of today on CCT and on my recent approval letter from Amex is 656. But I got denied for Chase Amazon on 4/23 and they pulled an Ex of 593. That's dead wrong. By a long shot. My other approvals pulled my scores correctly two weeks ago which is 656. What's the deal with Chase? Makes me want to recon.
What exactly does it say on the denial letter from Chase?

Does it show that they pulled Ex, and then does it reference your CARS score? (CARS is Chase's internal score)

Also, remember that there are MANY different FICO version as well...

They specifically said they pulled Experian. Does not reference CARS score. So if they pulled Exp I still don't see how it's 50-60 points off.

Re: Chase pulling wrong scores????

Revelate — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 13:42:15 GMT

@JustcallmeTM wrote:
Understandable I know most banks have there own internal scoring system for the most part just don't know which they lean on more FICO or Vantage to determine how they score it.

I would assume going forward Vantagescore will become more popular and used more for credit cards to stop the abuse on it. Only way to stop churners/high CL chasers/Card collectors and padders and so on is to fully adopt Vantagescore on all CC apps since it will severely impact your score for stuff like that.

Was that announced for VS 4? Isn't in VS 3 to my knowledge?

Scoring is only part of a UW decision as another poster pointed out, and actually other than perhaps features of either FICO or VS, Chase would've had to develop their own by looking at their data, and likely tweaked it based on their own procedures too. Only reason to develop internal algorithms or similar automation is to reduce cost, either in operational procedures or in this case to stop paying FICO et al. for their scores... much cheaper to just pull a report is my understanding of it, especially multiplied by likely millions of applications annually in Chase's case to say nothing of AR's where a score might likewise be useful to benchmark consumer performance.

Re: Chase pulling wrong scores????

Revelate — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 13:44:00 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@fltireguy wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
So my Exp as of today on CCT and on my recent approval letter from Amex is 656. But I got denied for Chase Amazon on 4/23 and they pulled an Ex of 593. That's dead wrong. By a long shot. My other approvals pulled my scores correctly two weeks ago which is 656. What's the deal with Chase? Makes me want to recon.
What exactly does it say on the denial letter from Chase?

Does it show that they pulled Ex, and then does it reference your CARS score? (CARS is Chase's internal score)

Also, remember that there are MANY different FICO version as well...
They specifically said they pulled Experian. Does not reference CARS score. So if they pulled Exp I still don't see how it's 50-60 points off.

Look for the score range, that's usually the easiest way to determine what was pulled.

Crucial point even if it calls into question ever monitoring scores: the only score that matters is the one the lender pulled.

Re: Chase pulling wrong scores????

Anonymous — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 13:51:07 GMT

Don't have it in front of me but I'm pretty sure the range went to 900.

Re: Chase pulling wrong scores????

K-in-Boston — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 15:51:07 GMT

I am almost positive that Chase uses EX FICO 08 Bankcard scores, and that would be true of the scale going to 900. They absolutely do not use Vantage. My Bankcard scores are usually about 10 points higher than my FICO 08 scores, while my Vantage Scores are usually about 100 points lower than my FICO 08 scores. There is no way Chase would have approved me for a $12k CSP a few months ago with a score in the 630s if they were using Vantage.

Re: Chase pulling wrong scores????

Revelate — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 16:06:41 GMT

@K-in-Boston wrote:
I am almost positive that Chase uses EX FICO 08 Bankcard scores, and that would be true of the scale going to 900. They absolutely do not use Vantage. My Bankcard scores are usually about 10 points higher than my FICO 08 scores, while my Vantage Scores are usually about 100 points lower than my FICO 08 scores. There is no way Chase would have approved me for a $12k CSP a few months ago with a score in the 630s if they were using Vantage.

Traditionally the low end of the range will exclude it's being FICO if it's their internal score, namely CARS ranges from 250-900; also if it's a FICO score, it's mandatory to use the FICO registered trademark.

It was almost certainly their internal score just like the overwhelming number of other Chase decisions posted here within the last 2ish years .

Re: Chase pulling wrong scores????

HeavenOhio — Sat, 29 Apr 2017 17:10:28 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
They specifically said they pulled Experian. Does not reference CARS score. So if they pulled Exp I still don't see how it's 50-60 points off.

Experian is the report and not the scoring model. Any number of scores can be drawn from a credit report.