topic Re: Do CCC judge you by the cards you have? in Credit Cards

Do CCC judge you by the cards you have?

Subexistence — Tue, 15 Aug 2017 02:23:30 GMT

I wonder if a CCC algorithm detects a first premier, then it expects you to have higher chance of defaulting.

If you have a BBR card, would the algorithm mark you as a churner and find a reason to turn you down?

It seems rational that a CCC would have internal algorithms that do something like this. Although I haven't seen any proof confirming this.

Re: Do CCC judge you by the cards you have?

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Aug 2017 02:28:13 GMT

@Subexistence wrote:
I wonder if a CCC algorithm detects a first premier, then it expects you to have higher chance of defaulting.

If you have a BBR card, would the algorithm mark you as a churner and find a reason to turn you down?

It seems rational that a CCC would have internal algorithms that do something like this. Although I haven't seen any proof confirming this.

The credit report doesn't show the specific card, so while it could penalize the FP, it wouldn't know that the BoA wasn't a good honest god-fearing card, rather than the MyFico Lovechild for "freeeeee money".

Anyway, churner is the wrong term here ("perk abuse" is probably the phrase, but BoA created the issue). For real churning, the CR would provide some evidence, lots of new cards with perhaps some closures (to meet lenders credit exposure requirements) but again they couldn't tell which actual cards were in the mix

Re: Do CCC judge you by the cards you have?

DeeBee78 — Tue, 15 Aug 2017 02:30:00 GMT

@Subexistence wrote:
I wonder if a CCC algorithm detects a first premier, then it expects you to have higher chance of defaulting.

If you have a BBR card, would the algorithm mark you as a churner and find a reason to turn you down?

It seems rational that a CCC would have internal algorithms that do something like this. Although I haven't seen any proof confirming this.

If they do, they're definitely not going to tell us.

Re: Do CCC judge you by the cards you have?

K-in-Boston — Tue, 15 Aug 2017 03:54:16 GMT

It seems logical that some algorithms may pick up on certain lenders; and I'm sure that analysts differentiate between them, consciously or not. More times than not, someone whose report consists solely of Credit One, Merrick Bank, and FIngerhut, usually has some other factors that would deter a lender. But let's not kid ourselves, an analyst doing a manual review is going to give much more consideration to the person with Chase, Citi, and BOA showing than the aforementioned lenders.

Re: Do CCC judge you by the cards you have?

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Aug 2017 04:07:31 GMT

A wise man once said, you're the credit card companies you keep.

Re: Do CCC judge you by the cards you have?

wasCB14 — Tue, 15 Aug 2017 05:50:11 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Subexistence wrote:
I wonder if a CCC algorithm detects a first premier, then it expects you to have higher chance of defaulting.

If you have a BBR card, would the algorithm mark you as a churner and find a reason to turn you down?

It seems rational that a CCC would have internal algorithms that do something like this. Although I haven't seen any proof confirming this.

The credit report doesn't show the specific card, so while it could penalize the FP, it wouldn't know that the BoA wasn't a good honest god-fearing card, rather than the MyFico Lovechild for "freeeeee money".

Anyway, churner is the wrong term here ("perk abuse" is probably the phrase, but BoA created the issue). For real churning, the CR would provide some evidence, lots of new cards with perhaps some closures (to meet lenders credit exposure requirements) but again they couldn't tell which actual cards were in the mix

CLs on closed accounts could give some clue about what they might have been. Low CLs can suggest rebuilding, whereas high ones suggest churning. I expect BBRs could be well-disguised.

I wonder if a $500 Amex (or even two or three $500 or $1000 Amex cards) would look nearly as bad as a card from a subprime issuer. For them, it would be a CL that likely reflected some significant concerns.

Re: Do CCC judge you by the cards you have?

UpperNwGuy — Tue, 15 Aug 2017 11:50:39 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
A wise man once said, you're the credit card companies you keep.

Exactly! And the real issue is not the algorithms, it's the manual review by a loan officer. Any loan officer can scan an applicant's credit report and quickly determine if they have (or have previously had) cash management issues. All loan officers know who the lenders are that focus on people with poor credit.

Re: Do CCC judge you by the cards you have?

K-in-Boston — Tue, 15 Aug 2017 13:14:20 GMT

@wasCB14 wrote:
<snip> I wonder if a $500 Amex (or even two or three $500 or $1000 Amex cards) would look nearly as bad as a card from a subprime issuer. For them, it would be a CL that likely reflected some significant concerns.

I hope not. I purposely nerfed my "Blue from American Express" card's limit (moved to daily driver SPG) since it's sock drawered until I decide to close it (hoping for a better PC option to come along, or at least a targeted ED/EDP "upgrade" offer). I've had it for 15 years and sometimes forget it's even there; I mentioned the other day that with Kohl's raising the $3k cap that Target is now my lowest card, but it's actually this one. Granted I could raise it to $21k in 10 seconds on Amex's website, but yeah if there were any evidence of what you brought up, I'd throw some of its line back.

Re: Do CCC judge you by the cards you have?

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Aug 2017 13:42:09 GMT

@UpperNwGuy wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
A wise man once said, you're the credit card companies you keep.
Exactly! And the real issue is not the algorithms, it's the manual review by a loan officer. Any loan officer can scan an applicant's credit report and quickly determine if they have (or have previously had) cash management issues. All loan officers know who the lenders are that focus on people with poor credit.

But how often do people do manual reviews? I have only gone to manual review once and it was for my Bank of America 99/500 getting unsecured. They seemed to be Ok with my Fingerhut account. They probably were well aware of me having bad credit in the past as it was a 99/500 card.

Re: Do CCC judge you by the cards you have?

K-in-Boston — Tue, 15 Aug 2017 13:46:51 GMT

I've had 4 manual reivews for apps in the past year or so, and 3 manual reviews by analysts for existing cards. YMMV of course.

Re: Do CCC judge you by the cards you have?

AverageJoesCredit — Tue, 15 Aug 2017 13:54:39 GMT

In an age where information and data rulz all, i wouldnt be suprised at all at what there is used to classify credit card users

Re: Do CCC judge you by the cards you have?

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Aug 2017 14:42:33 GMT

Makes sense to me, especially with humans looking at it. I also wonder if existing creditors look at where you shop...if AMEX sees you shopping at Walmart does that mean something different than if you shop at Nordstrom? Is it good or bad? Worse yet, if you USED to shop at upmarket stores and suddenly shop at thrift shops, that could be a really bad sign, or it could just mean you are tired of paying retail...

Re: Do CCC judge you by the cards you have?

SarahJo — Tue, 15 Aug 2017 17:14:07 GMT

I was wondering this exact thing yesterday...if the types of services/merchants where charges are made has bearing on your creditor's projection of credit worthiness?

Re: Do CCC judge you by the cards you have?

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Aug 2017 17:39:37 GMT

Well we have data points that a consumer finance account hurts you, but that's pure FICO there.

There are data points that having large credit limits will get you new large starting limits, so it is feasible that having toy limit bank cards may hurt your chances at getting high starting limits from prime banks -- although that's only true until you have high limit cards over time.

I started my credit repair by getting two big secured cards: $2500 and $3000 right away. I would have gotten a bigger secured limit if they offered it. But those high limits didn't help at all with other SLs for me ($400, $400, $500).

Re: Do CCC judge you by the cards you have?

creditgambler2018 — Wed, 16 Aug 2017 04:58:25 GMT

I am embarrassed of the walmart card. LOL. It seems like I cant pay for simple stuff. It is getting closed as soon as the new statement reports a zero dollars and zero cents owed balance in 4 days. Mortgage loan officer named it from report and I felt like a broke person on welfare and section 8.

Re: Do CCC judge you by the cards you have?

Anonymous — Wed, 16 Aug 2017 12:08:56 GMT

I agree about the WalMart stigma...I couldn't bring myself to carry an Allegiant Airlines card or heaven forbid, CheapOAir. Call it snobbery if you like, but I think EVERYONE judges you by the card you whip out. Plunk down a metal card or high-end AMEX and I have to think the waitress looks at you differently than if you had dropped a prepaid debit card of some sort. Is it relevant, NO, but people judge other people all day long.

I get treated completely differently when I'm dressed in a suit for work than when I'm wearing shorts and a t-shirt running errands. People call me sir and are really polite when I'm dressed up. I have had people ask me if I'm going to a funeral and I can truthfully say "yes, we have 4 of them today". That tends to shut them up!

Re: Do CCC judge you by the cards you have?

Anonymous — Wed, 16 Aug 2017 14:30:57 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I agree about the WalMart stigma...I couldn't bring myself to carry an Allegiant Airlines card or heaven forbid, CheapOAir. Call it snobbery if you like, but I think EVERYONE judges you by the card you whip out. Plunk down a metal card or high-end AMEX and I have to think the waitress looks at you differently than if you had dropped a prepaid debit card of some sort. Is it relevant, NO, but people judge other people all day long.

I get treated completely differently when I'm dressed in a suit for work than when I'm wearing shorts and a t-shirt running errands. People call me sir and are really polite when I'm dressed up. I have had people ask me if I'm going to a funeral and I can truthfully say "yes, we have 4 of them today". That tends to shut them up!

I dont' think anyone cares which card you plunk down. When I worked in a grocery store when I was in college and someone used a credit card for groceries over a debit card I assumed they were having financial difficulties as they had to charge their food. I felt sorry for them. I think that was the common sentiment that if you were charging food you were close to being broke.

The only time I had people notice my card was when my bank of america debit/visa broke in half and I used he tiny one that is supposed to attach to your key chain. Everyone loved that. They would even show it to other people who worked there.

Also I am sure some very rich people shop at Walmart. A lot of people ge rich by being frugal. I don't shop there but to each their own.

Re: Do CCC judge you by the cards you have?

Anonymous — Wed, 16 Aug 2017 14:37:37 GMT

I used to go grocery shopping with a customer of mine at Walmart together as I was helping him lose weight. His business made him 8 figures one year (yes, tens of millions of dollars). He avoided Whole Foods because he said he didn't get rich buying expensive things. Funny guy, drove a nice car but it was at least 7 years old (probably cost him $120,000 tho).

I don't think people will even see credit cards anymore, soon enough. Between Apple Pay and Android Pay and Samsung Pay -- and now Amazon Pay is popping up in some businesses -- we may not even have a wallet for much more than ID.

I don't go to the store with all my cards. I take out the card I planned to use (cash back calculations) and a back up and that's what's in my wallet right now. When I get home, I put the main card back in my safe and keep my emergency card in my wallet. If I travel, I tend to take 3 cards with me just in case of a security freeze.