topic Re: Chase CLD on all cards in Credit Cards

Chase CLD on all cards

Anonymous — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 16:10:24 GMT

I've been banking with Chase for 10 years. Annual income is $250k, and all of that gets direct deposited into Chase. FICO typically fluctuates from 650 to 720, no lates or derrogatories in a decade. My utilization on all cards is a little higher than I like - about 30%.

Here are my BEFORE accounts prior to CLD:

Marriott Prefered: Balance 10k, Limit 17k

Chase Sapphire: Balance 6k, Limit 15k

Chase United: Balance $2k, Limit 7k

Chase Freedom: Balance 2k, Limit 10k

Last week, with no warning, they reduced all limits to $250 above current balances, basically maxing out every card.

Granted, I owe Chase about 20k. Total credit card debt (across all banks) is 40k, which I know seems high, but income also high, and haven't been carying balances for all that long - I bought a house last year, so lots of stuff to buy.

I have been a Chase Credit customer for 5 years. No late payments, typically cary a checking balance of 20k. My FICO has been much lower (sub 600) due to things like new accounts and utlization - not for missed payments or collections, and Chase never touched any of my limits in th past.

The only thing that's changed with these accounts is that I've been actively paying off balances, about $1,500 each, every month.

Any suggestions of what to do?

Re: Chase CLD on all cards

Anonymous — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 16:13:17 GMT

It’s clear that there’re balance chasing you so it’s very likely that if you pay the balances down they’re very likely to lower your limits even more. All you can do now is call Chase and talk to them and see if there is anything that you can do to restore the limits now or in the future. Sorry that this happened to you and good luck.

Re: Chase CLD on all cards

AverageJoesCredit — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 16:19:03 GMT

From what i understand of Chase clding, try to pay off those balances and move on. Im no expert and im sorry they did that to you, but im of belief that if you are utilizing your credit wisely and responsibly, actually using it and paying on time, banks shouldnt do what they do ,or did ,to you. Its probably best to look for other lenders who wont get spooked so easily. Yes, yes, i know you were carrying 20k debt which is alot and thats probably what spooked them in these times, but your income and history should prevent that.

I guess it just hoes to show even with super high income you xhould try not to carry alot of balance. Maybe check out some credit unions like PF or Navy who might appreciate your business . Good luck going forward, i wish you the best.

Re: Chase CLD on all cards

CreditMagic7 — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 16:33:06 GMT

As Irish80 mentioned, that's what it is and falls straight to you to take up some form of damage control the best you can. When this happens it's a rush and scramble to try to put something on track as fast as possible so that other lenders don't turn either.

One of our members 12njoy went through this very same thing about a year ago with Chase.

Sorry you're experiencing this but hopefully Chase will restore something and/or at least help move limits for you from either a paid off balance/restored limit to take the worse of the edge off the other ones while you deal with the fallout.

I would call and give it a try.

Re: Chase CLD on all cards

K-in-Boston — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 17:12:20 GMT

I am assuming that you don't have a private banker relationship with them since you didn't bring it up? If you do, that should certainly be your first call.

I'm very sorry that this happened to you. During the credit crunch a decade ago, guess who put the Chase in balance chase for DW? Most likely it was triggered by crossing the 30% utilization mark, but that still doesn't make it right. Given time, they will increase the limits again. As others have stated, damage control right now is likely a very good route to take especially as you'll have 4 cards reporting as maxed-out lowering your scores quite a bit until those come down. I would call and speak with a credit analyst. Your profile obviously has great things going for it. Don't sweat the balances too much if you can handle them; I'm still right at 6 figures on my cards (slowly creeping down) and income is a touch lower.

"Any suggestions" was a bit open-ended, so forgive me if this is unsolicited, but if they don't give you a satisfactory outcome, it may be worth reevaluating your banking relationship with them. Your checking balance alone would qualify you for Gold Preferred Rewards with Bank of America/Merrill Lynch/Merrill Edge even without other assets, for example - and in my experience they are not at all concerned with high utilization on their cards (not that I think your Chase balances even fall into that category). There are many other institutions that would value your business. Best of luck, and please let us know if/how they resolve this.

Re: Chase CLD on all cards

kilroy8 — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 17:28:00 GMT

Old school bankers like to see you come out of (reduce to zero) any short term loans/lines at least once per year. If this becomes a problem, roll it up into some kind of longer term installment loan, but get it out of revolving once per year for at least a month. Just my 2 cents.

Re: Chase CLD on all cards

Anonymous — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 17:48:45 GMT

Thanks for all of your responses.

I just sent certified letters to the VP of consumer credit cards and the general Chase credit services addresses. No angry threats, just outlined my previous relationship with Chase, adn that unfortunately I'd have to take my business to a competitor if my limits weren't restored. I did the math, and I've had over 1 million dollars go in and out of my checking accounts over the past 5 years. In the last year alone, I had $60,000 of charges on my Marriott Rewards card.

One thing I just remembered - the only thing I did out of the ordinary was cash out my rewards balance on Sapphire. I'm a heavy user, and have over $1500 in rewards. The CLD came like 3 days later.

If I don't get the outcome I want, I'll simply close all of my accounts and take my business elsewhere. I already have a small relationship with Wells Fargo, and I'm sure they will be happy to be my primary bank. I have cards with all the major banks, so I don't need Chase.

It really is a shame. About 2 years ago I got one 30 day late that was a mistake (got it deleted within 2 weeks). American Express promptly closed all of my cards. In the past my credit has dipped, and other lenders have cut my line of credit. All along, Chase has never taken negative action - only now that my credit is actually better than it was when I originally opened the cards. Oh well - I guess my 'innocence' with them is lost.

Thanks again for the responses.

Re: Chase CLD on all cards

Anonymous — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 18:02:13 GMT

Closing cards that earn you cash back rewards better than other cards is a bad idea.

Running high utilization on one card for a few months is fine. Running high utilization on many counts is not. Not even if you have high income. I've had high income most of my life and twice now I've gone from high 700s FICL to 400/500s because of a blip in income that lasted 3 or 4 months. Does't matter if you make $50,000 or $500,000, if you're overspending your income, a blip can cause catastrophe and the banks have the analysts and data points to prove it.

Right now, we're in a credit boom for sure but we're also seeing a lot of charge-offs -- not just in low income households. I know two different couples who earned $5-$10 million combined in the past decade who are currently doing cash advances (ouch) because one of them lost a job or had a financial problem and they had no savings to back it up.

Sounds like you need to NOT threaten Chase with account closure (IMHO) but pay down your utilization and then ask for your limits to be restored.

Also pay for a 3B if you don't have a recent one -- CCT $1 trial is enough. See if anything majorly derogatory happened.

A few questions:

Any cash advances on Chase or any credit card?
Any major gift card purchases repeatedly on a credit card (not just Chase)?
Any utilization over 89% on any credit card post to a statement?
Any "late" payment that wasn't a 30D late but was after the due date (not reported to CRAs)?
Did you recently use Plastiq or Venmo or Paypal to send a large payment to yourself or family or to pay a loan due?

Re: Chase CLD on all cards

negg — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 18:34:22 GMT

"Granted, I owe Chase about 20k. Total credit card debt (across all banks) is 40k, which I know seems high, but income also high".

Right here is the issue. 40K in credit card debt is high not seems high. Chase soft pulled you and saw this and the computer bells and whistle went crazy. Can't blame them.

Re: Chase CLD on all cards

Appleman — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 18:36:03 GMT

Check out SoFi.com and see what they offer on the pre-qual page. This will be a SP unless you take them up on the loan.

They like great payment histories, high income earners. Flip all that revolving debt into a personal loan and your score will soar. Just don't put a bunch of spending back on the cards. FICO scores an installment loan differently than revolving CC debt.

Re: Chase CLD on all cards

Anonymous — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 18:54:31 GMT

OP, just curious, with your substantial income why have you chosen to carry balances on your cards and why are you only paying $1500/mo toward your $40k in debt?

I know someone that only has about $25k in income that's had 9 credit cards maxed out for nearly a year now. 2 of those cards are through Chase and have actually had > 100% utilization on them due to interest being added on to the balance. This person has yet to receive any AA on any of those 9 accounts which are spread across 6 different creditors.

Re: Chase CLD on all cards

Anonymous — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 18:57:46 GMT

@negg wrote:
"Granted, I owe Chase about 20k. Total credit card debt (across all banks) is 40k, which I know seems high, but income also high".

Right here is the issue. 40K in credit card debt is high not seems high. Chase soft pulled you and saw this and the computer bells and whistle went crazy. Can't blame them.

I don't know how banks work, but this shouldn't be an issue. A 16% DTI is not much. I reguarly have way more than this post on my statements. It doesn't get carried over month to month as I pay in full, but if a bank soft pulled me at any given point, I'd be double this some months. 40K shouldn't be high if income is high.

Re: Chase CLD on all cards

Anonymous — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 19:02:15 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@negg wrote:
"Granted, I owe Chase about 20k. Total credit card debt (across all banks) is 40k, which I know seems high, but income also high".

Right here is the issue. 40K in credit card debt is high not seems high. Chase soft pulled you and saw this and the computer bells and whistle went crazy. Can't blame them.
I don't know how banks work, but this shouldn't be an issue. A 16% DTI is not much. I reguarly have way more than this post on my statements. It doesn't get carried over month to month as I pay in full, but if a bank soft pulled me at any given point, I'd be double this some months. 40K shouldn't be high if income is high.

A soft pull only shows items that have posted, so fundamentally your situation is quite different.

Re: Chase CLD on all cards

yfan — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 19:40:30 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I don't know how banks work, but this shouldn't be an issue. A 16% DTI is not much. I reguarly have way more than this post on my statements. It doesn't get carried over month to month as I pay in full, but if a bank soft pulled me at any given point, I'd be double this some months. 40K shouldn't be high if income is high.

That's one angle. Another is, why is someone with such high income carrying $40,000 in credit card debt? Under normal circumstances, someone making a quarter million dollars a year shouldn't have any trouble paying off their credit cards. Behavior contrary to that can certainly raise doubts. OP explains it by saying they had to buy stuff for the home they bought last year. I also bought a home last year, and my income is much, much lower than OP's, but I didn't end up carrying balances on any credit cards at all.

OP's credit limits also seemed fairly low for someone of their income level.

My impression here is that there is more to this story than we are getting. Remember that Chase has more data than just balances and limits. They have data on OP's actual use of the cards and spend patterns.

Re: Chase CLD on all cards

K-in-Boston — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 19:52:52 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@negg wrote:
"Granted, I owe Chase about 20k. Total credit card debt (across all banks) is 40k, which I know seems high, but income also high".

Right here is the issue. 40K in credit card debt is high not seems high. Chase soft pulled you and saw this and the computer bells and whistle went crazy. Can't blame them.
I don't know how banks work, but this shouldn't be an issue. A 16% DTI is not much. I reguarly have way more than this post on my statements. It doesn't get carried over month to month as I pay in full, but if a bank soft pulled me at any given point, I'd be double this some months. 40K shouldn't be high if income is high.
A soft pull only shows items that have posted, so fundamentally your situation is quite different.

Negg, $40k is completely relative. I've had more than that in new charges in a month. Someone with $30k in income carrying $40k in debt on $45k of credit lines? Sure, that's cause for concern. In this case, you could certainly "blame them" as there's not really any cause for alarm from the info we have.

MWC, your comment lost me. A soft pull is going to give a lender the same information as a hard pull when it comes to utilization and what's reported at any given point for balances on a person's credit reports. Not sure how that's a different situation.

Re: Chase CLD on all cards

red259 — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 19:54:38 GMT

With income that high and no lates/ derogs why is the credit score soo low? Why would someone carry 40k balances vs just paying the cards off on time??? I'd be wary if I was Chase as well.

Re: Chase CLD on all cards

K-in-Boston — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 19:56:51 GMT

@yfan wrote:
why is someone with such high income carrying $40,000 in credit card debt? Under normal circumstances, someone making a quarter million dollars a year shouldn't have any trouble paying off their credit cards.

I hate to keep using the word, but it's relative. I'll be happy to get down to $40k about 2 years from now and I'm just under that for income. Cost of living can differ drastically from region to region, and that doesn't just mean housing.

Re: Chase CLD on all cards

Anonymous — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 20:06:26 GMT

Thanks for your reply-

I know there are lots of things in my credit profile that could throw up red flags. What confuses me is that there are far less now then there have been over the past 2-3 years.

I think I'm going to close Chase out of principal - or atleast all the cards that have an annual fee, which is most of them. If 40k is too high of credit card debt, then what's the point on having all that open credit? I have cards with Citi, Amex, Wells Fargo, and BoA with more than enough credit avaailable for my needs. At a minimum, Im going to pull all of my money out of Chase, and give it to another bank. I have enough cash in a Wells Fargo acount to just pay off all Chase cards and be done with them. I haven't only because I prefer to have a large liquid cashflow. My financial profile is a little unorthodox. Single guy, high income, tends to go through periods of intense spending, balanced by periods of intesnse saving / paying off.

Amswers:

Any cash advances on Chase or any credit card? Never in my life.
Any major gift card purchases repeatedly on a credit card (not just Chase)? Nope, I use cash. I hate people who give gift cards
Any utilization over 89% on any credit card post to a statement? Possibly, but that's nothing new for me, and nothing new in the past 6 months. There were times 2 or 3 years ago when i had 7 or 8 cards maxed out and Chase didn't blink.
Any "late" payment that wasn't a 30D late but was after the due date (not reported to CRAs)? Recently Dell Financial screwed up my autopay, but it was never reported. I called and got credited for the late fee, and an apology. How could Chase possibly find out about that?
Did you recently use Plastiq or Venmo or Paypal to send a large payment to yourself or family or to pay a loan due? I only use paypal to purchase from retailers. Probably $2,000 a month on average. I don't use it to send cash as 'friends and family'

Re: Chase CLD on all cards

red259 — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 20:12:14 GMT

@K-in-Boston wrote:
@yfan wrote:
why is someone with such high income carrying $40,000 in credit card debt? Under normal circumstances, someone making a quarter million dollars a year shouldn't have any trouble paying off their credit cards.
I hate to keep using the word, but it's relative. I'll be happy to get down to $40k about 2 years from now and I'm just under that for income. Cost of living can differ drastically from region to region, and that doesn't just mean housing.

40K is a lot of credit debt for someone with credit scores on the lower range. I live in one of the most expensive areas of the country, so the concept of it being relative really doesn't fly. Why would someone be paying interest on all that money if they could just pay it off? I could understand maybe if it was a 0%APR offer they were carrying but if they are paying interest to carry these balances then I would have real questions if I were the bank. Maybe I am misunderstanding and they are only carrying on 0% apr cards in which case I'd speak to the bank.

Re: Chase CLD on all cards

Anonymous — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 20:10:54 GMT

Yeah, I'm in the same boat -- single guy, retired but high income, have periods of insanely high spending (2-3 months of the year probably account for 90% of my annual spend). So far I'm in FICO hell so not much AA anyone can take, but I do like Chase and have banked with them for over 25 years. Sucky to read these stories because I would really like to get the CSR to help with international travel awards...

If you have a competitor card that gives you the same rewards/cashback, definitely go nuclear on the same card from Chase. No purpose giving them your business.

But if it means you'll earn fewer rewards, I wouldn't cut off my nose to spite my face. I expect banks to pay me now, and pay me well, and I'm going to maximize that for my own greedy selfish purposes.