topic Re: Another "Premium" Card HSBC enters the game. in Credit Cards

Another "Premium" Card HSBC enters the game.

CreditCuriosity — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 13:00:53 GMT

https://www.doctorofcredit.com/hsbc-introduces-new-premium-credit-card-premier-world-elite/

Even if I wanted the card think I am probably blacklisted from HSBC the only bank that I burned back when I had credit issues when Cap1 bought them off I had unpaid CO's with them that I later paid to CO. So doubt I would tough any of their cards or make that they would touch me lol.

edit: although appears you need 100k with HSBC to even get the card oh my lol. Guess that would really really limit the amount of people if any on MF with 100k with them as they really aren't a big presence in the US anymore.

Re: Another "Premium" Card HSBC enters the game.

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 13:01:31 GMT

i personally wouldn't recommend hsbc cards to anyone.. i am about to close mine

1. you can't make a payment in the mobile app.. seriously?

2. you can only make payments out of an account that has your name on it and you have to prove it.. (so..they're messing up my budget.. i pay rent/car payment/car insurance out of my account and everything else out of bf's account.. all of my other cards let me add whatever account i want to make payments)

Re: Another "Premium" Card HSBC enters the game.

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 13:03:02 GMT

I would respect HSBC more if they'd let people apply for the card they want. I shouldn't have to open up their top-teir checking account to apply for the card I want to get. I lost respect for them quickly during the month that I banked with them and limiting this card to only a few people is a joke in itself as well. At least I don't have to have a Citi Gold to get the Prestige or the Chase Premier Platinum checking to get the Sapphire Reserve. HSBC is a poorly managed bank and obviously continues to be with this card release.

Re: Another "Premium" Card HSBC enters the game.

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 13:04:39 GMT

I know I'm blacklisted with HSBC because I burned them and then they hired me as a consultant when they pushed into the US and my customer connection said on my background check that I CO'd them thousands of years ago and they have a long memory, haha. The good news is I charged them 100X more than I charged off, so I figure I'm ahead.

Their premier world elite card does have some nice perks, for those who travel a lot with carriers where it matters. That $750 SUB is awesome, too.

Not interested here, I travel subprime and save 5 figures a year over booking premium airlines.

Re: Another "Premium" Card HSBC enters the game.

jacetx — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 13:31:31 GMT

Seems to me like a waste of time for them to advertise the card publicly considering that most Americans don't have $100k in their savings/checking accounts. The market for this card seems very small.

Re: Another "Premium" Card HSBC enters the game.

CreditCuriosity — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 13:41:14 GMT

@jacetx wrote:
Seems to me like a waste of time for them to advertise the card publicly considering that most Americans don't have $100k in their savings/checking accounts. The market for this card seems very small.

At least in the US it is.. Not sure if card is meant for other markets as well?

Re: Another "Premium" Card HSBC enters the game.

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 13:41:19 GMT

$100k in your HSBC investment account also qualifies.

Re: Another "Premium" Card HSBC enters the game.

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 13:50:58 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
$100k in your HSBC investment account also qualifies.

But then again there's better investment companies out there, so either way you have to negatively impact your portfolio just to get this card. There's always a better product out there where you can store your money.

Re: Another "Premium" Card HSBC enters the game.

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 13:57:45 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
But then again there's better investment companies out there, so either way you have to negatively impact your portfolio just to get this card. There's always a better product out there where you can store your money.

Maybe but that's a risky thing to say because you're forgetting that people still are looking for tax advantages and HSBC's Channel Islands tax haven continues to work hard at being legal per Euro and US requirements but also allowing for massive tax benefits you won't find on either mainland.

https://www.expat.hsbc.com/1/2/hsbc-expat/why-hsbc-expat/offshore-banking

Just remember that there are a lot of medium-wealth individuals in the US who bank with HSBC primarily for the advantages to their international reach into the Channel Islands. $100k is nothing for many of them, and there are many of them who use the bank. They just probably have reasons not to discuss it like the last time someone pushed it and the IRS and EU tax creeps decided to kill another useful feature.

For the past 12 months, HSBC has been moving plenty of assets out of Jersey (Channel Islands) into Dubai to help people avoid the nefarious agencies' reaches.

I'm going to guess there are 50,000 US citizens who qualify for this card already, and I bet the number is double or triple that.

Re: Another "Premium" Card HSBC enters the game.

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 13:56:36 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
$100k in your HSBC investment account also qualifies.
But then again there's better investment companies out there, so either way you have to negatively impact your portfolio just to get this card. There's always a better product out there where you can store your money.

BofA has much better perks for keeping investments with ML. Not to say ML is any better or worse than HSBC or any others, but as far as perks they're far better for the $100k crowd.

Re: Another "Premium" Card HSBC enters the game.

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 13:57:52 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
But then again there's better investment companies out there, so either way you have to negatively impact your portfolio just to get this card. There's always a better product out there where you can store your money.
Maybe but that's a risky thing to say because you're forgetting that people still are looking for tax advantages and HSBC's Channel Islands tax haven continues to work hard at being legal per Euro and US requirements but also allowing for massive tax benefits you won't find on either mainland.

https://www.expat.hsbc.com/1/2/hsbc-expat/why-hsbc-expat/offshore-banking

Just remember that there are a lot of medium-wealth individuals in the US who bank with HSBC primarily for the advantages to their international reach into the Channel Islands. $100k is nothing for many of them, and there are many of them who use the bank. They just probably have reasons not to discuss it like the last time someone pushed it and the IRS and EU tax creeps decided to kill another useful feature.

I'm going to guess there are 50,000 US citizens who qualify for this card already, and I bet the number is double or triple that.

I'll stick with Schwab.

Re: Another "Premium" Card HSBC enters the game.

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 14:01:00 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
BofA has much better perks for keeping investments with ML. Not to say ML is any better or worse than HSBC or any others, but as far as perks they're far better for the $100k crowd.

BofA/ML means keeping your investments on-shore under massive regulatory and tax burdens.

I believe 5 years ago they still instituted better policies to avoid mainland tax grabs (I think someone disclosed they had $20B in offshore investments) but after they got chomped own by the spineless mopes in the Senate, they've been less and less intriguing as a place for high net worth individuals to utilize.

Middle class America would do fine with ML, and that's who ML targets. High net worth individuals are the target of this particular HSBC card, and they know why they card was issued. It wasn't to target middle class Americans by any means.

That's IMHO, of course.

Re: Another "Premium" Card HSBC enters the game.

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 14:02:28 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

I'll stick with Schwab.

If you net worth is over $8MM or so (napkin math here while I'm only halfway through my mug of coffee), you're probably exposing yourself to over $2MM in tax burdens sticking with Schwab.

If your net worth is under $8MM, this card isn't targetted for you.

It's one of those "**bleep**" public disclosures of a product that really shouldn't have been on a publicly facing site, methinks.

Re: Another "Premium" Card HSBC enters the game.

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 14:14:58 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:

I'll stick with Schwab.
If you net worth is over $8MM or so (napkin math here while I'm only halfway through my mug of coffee), you're probably exposing yourself to over $2MM in tax burdens sticking with Schwab.

If your net worth is under $8MM, this card isn't targetted for you.

It's one of those "**bleep**" public disclosures of a product that really shouldn't have been on a publicly facing site, methinks.

That's typical of HSBC. They must think they're some kind of premium bank with their below average website and terrible customer service or their password page that doesn't work half the time, or like someone else pointed out earlier, their crappy app.

Don't get me wrong, if you want to do business with HSBC I respect that, but I think they're a below average bank. I agree with your assesment that this was better off not being publicly advertised.

Re: Another "Premium" Card HSBC enters the game.

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 14:17:47 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:

I'll stick with Schwab.
If you net worth is over $8MM or so (napkin math here while I'm only halfway through my mug of coffee), you're probably exposing yourself to over $2MM in tax burdens sticking with Schwab.

If your net worth is under $8MM, this card isn't targetted for you.

It's one of those "**bleep**" public disclosures of a product that really shouldn't have been on a publicly facing site, methinks.

I'll bite: I don't think a blind eye will continue to be turned to offshore investing used to mitigate personal tax liability. I'm in this wealth window and wouldn't even consider moving offshore at this point. The IRS has given guidance that US citizens are to be taxed on global wealth and earnings, so I sincerely doubt this shell game will continue in the long term. Tax evasion is starting to be taken quite seriously, especially as it is becoming easier to catch.

I've said this about the BoA Premium Rewards and I hold the same belief regarding this card: I'll not move investments over these paltry rewards. If one of the banks I already keep enough money at starts a program like this, I'll be first in line!

Re: Another "Premium" Card HSBC enters the game.

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 14:22:12 GMT

Just the fact that you need to have $100k with them....yeah, that will be a narrow list.

Annual fee of $395, authorized users are $65 per user - Cheaper than AMEX Platinum and CSR
Sign up bonus of 50,000 points after $4,000 in purchases within the first three months of account opening - CSR URs are better and with more partners
Card earns at the following rates:
- 3x points on travel - Same as CSR
- 2x points on dining - CSR is 3x
- 1x point on all other purchases - Same as CSR & AMEX Platinum
$100 Annual Air Travel Credit to reimburse ticket purchases, seat upgrades, baggage fees or in-flight purchases - CSR & AMEX Platimum are better (can't use on tickets)
$100 Annual Statement Credits for rides with Uber and Lyft - Not sure if only $15/month. Up to $20/ride vs $15 on AMEX Platinum
Unlimited Boingo Wi-Fi access - Same as AMEX Platinum
Priority pass only two per year - No bueno
Complimentary membership to over 850 airport lounges, plus up to 15% off airport retailers - This is nice!
$85 TSA Pre✓® credit to reimburse the application fee - What happened to $100?
Metal card - Ok
No foreign transaction fees - Ok, should be standard for a prestige card - Even for AMEX hilton card

They dont mention anything about hotel status like AMEX Platinum Gold status on hotels like Hilton, SPG, Marriot. Also, no mention on car rental VIP such us Avis, Hertz etc. Even if the requirement didn't incude the $100k, i would rather apply for US Bank Altititude instead.

Re: Another "Premium" Card HSBC enters the game.

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 14:45:31 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I'll bite: I don't think a blind eye will continue to be turned to offshore investing used to mitigate personal tax liability. I'm in this wealth window and wouldn't even consider moving offshore at this point. The IRS has given guidance that US citizens are to be taxed on global wealth and earnings, so I sincerely doubt this shell game will continue in the long term. Tax evasion is starting to be taken quite seriously, especially as it is becoming easier to catch.

I've said this about the BoA Premium Rewards and I hold the same belief regarding this card: I'll not move investments over these paltry rewards. If one of the banks I already keep enough money at starts a program like this, I'll be first in line!

The IRS' guidance is outdated and it's ignorant of the IRS' value as an inflation/deflation mitigation wing of the Federal Reserve. If you go through the data points on IRS attacks on offshore havens versus the Federal Reserve's disclosures on pending inflationary or deflationary concerns, you'll be surprised that the IRS isn't as aggressive 24/7/365 as most people fear. The one big issue with repatriating offshore funds is if you do too much too soon, the returning cash can actually have a direct inflationary pressure that the FedRes absolutely doesn't want.

On the flip side, the nouveau riche and cryptocurrency means the IRS is going to be kicking themselves into their own backsides and it's going to be lololol for decades going forward. The latest adaptations of zero-knowledge proofs in cryptocurrency means that tax authorities are truly going to have zero idea who has what and who they are sending it to. Financial freedom from taxing authorities will be happening not in 10 years but in 2. I know a lot of cryptocurrency milloinaires who expatriated in the past 18 months and now it looks like they didn't have to pay their exit taxes from whatever authority they lived under.

Also, I spend 1/3-1/4 of my year in the Caribbean and see how the lower upper class hides their wealth. Tax haven funds exited into blind trust corporations that own charter companies generating an income into the company's holdings but never repatriated to individuals. They and their kids and their grandkids can go and spend 2 weeks in paradise and get "free food and drink" from the charter company they blindly own, and it's not just for their lives but future generations. Lots of methods that the local tax authorities have really no access to.

That being said, I personally pay my taxes, even on cryptocurrency gains. When it's time for me to expatriate out, I'll pay my exit taxes. But I also don't think the tax authorities will be able to hold on to their attack vectors for much longer -- 10 years might be unlikely, but 20 years is assured.

Re: Another "Premium" Card HSBC enters the game.

wasCB14 — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 15:30:53 GMT

Previous discussion: http://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Cards/HSBC-Mastercards-Anyonne-With-Recent-Experience/td-p/5017640

I'm not entirely sure how effective FATCA is when cryptocurrencies are involved. Will do further research.

Re: Another "Premium" Card HSBC enters the game.

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 15:56:21 GMT

My CPA and my tax attorney both are monitoring FATCA and FBAR mandates in terms of reporting because the IRS themselves is either clueless or too slow to adapt. Since my crypto has gone up to ridiculous levels on paper, it's really difficult to know how to report it. Some of "my" crypto never mingled with "my" labor or income on US soil as well, which makes it even more difficult to know if it's actually mine or not.

We've sent letters since 2012 demanding some clarity. Since 2012 our letters have either gone unanswered, or a group of monkeys banged on keyboards and sent a reply that made no sense.

FWIW, I believe the last real disclosure was in 2014 when they said consider it property, not currency, which I hope is overturned eventually.

I don't generally sell cryptocurrency for fiat currencies, though, so right now my capital gains exposure is zero or close to zero at least. I've donated cryptocurrency, though, so I have to figure out how to declare the value of that donation because there might be a tax hit even though I sent crypto to crypto versus cashing in crypto to fiat to donation. If I sent ~ $US500 in crypto that I purchased for US$50, I want to deduct the donation, but does that give me a $450 income penalty?

One thing I do love is including crypto gains on my tax returns and making sure to include as much paperwork as legally possible. The thicker your tax returns, the more fun it is wondering what monkeys with keyboards do with it once it's in the system.

Re: Another "Premium" Card HSBC enters the game.

wasCB14 — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 16:29:44 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
My CPA and my tax attorney both are monitoring FATCA and FBAR mandates in terms of reporting because the IRS themselves is either clueless or too slow to adapt. Since my crypto has gone up to ridiculous levels on paper, it's really difficult to know how to report it. Some of "my" crypto never mingled with "my" labor or income on US soil as well, which makes it even more difficult to know if it's actually mine or not.

We've sent letters since 2012 demanding some clarity. Since 2012 our letters have either gone unanswered, or a group of monkeys banged on keyboards and sent a reply that made no sense.

FWIW, I believe the last real disclosure was in 2014 when they said consider it property, not currency, which I hope is overturned eventually.

I don't generally sell cryptocurrency for fiat currencies, though, so right now my capital gains exposure is zero or close to zero at least. I've donated cryptocurrency, though, so I have to figure out how to declare the value of that donation because there might be a tax hit even though I sent crypto to crypto versus cashing in crypto to fiat to donation. If I sent ~ $US500 in crypto that I purchased for US$50, I want to deduct the donation, but does that give me a $450 income penalty?

One thing I do love is including crypto gains on my tax returns and making sure to include as much paperwork as legally possible. The thicker your tax returns, the more fun it is wondering what monkeys with keyboards do with it once it's in the system.

It sounds like you're trading one cryptocurrency for another, and classifying it as a like kind exchange? Then donating appreciated "property" to avoid the gain while getting FMV for the deduction?

It's sound in theory, but the IRS has plenty of time to make up its mind. I have no idea if it will fly or not.

If the donor or donee was asked to provide evidence of such a donation to the IRS...beyond the usual brief written statement...would that compromise a donor's anonymity on bitcoin?