topic Re: My first FR in Credit Cards

My first FR

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 04:28:42 GMT

36 months with Amex. 3 accounts. $200k per month spend. Just got hit with FR. quite annoying but understandable I guess. I don’t want to comply. Right now they capped my spend to $50k. My question is, if I don’t comply with FR and instead accept their lowering of my spend cap, do they lift the cap after a period of time passes or is it a scarlet letter for life?

Re: My first FR

MrDisco99 — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 05:05:26 GMT

If you want any kind of relationship with them going forward, your best bet is to comply. Otherwise they may just close your accounts.

Re: My first FR

DeeBee78 — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 05:29:08 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
36 months with Amex. 3 accounts. $200k per month spend. Just got hit with FR. quite annoying but understandable I guess. I don’t want to comply. Right now they capped my spend to $50k. My question is, if I don’t comply with FR and instead accept their lowering of my spend cap, do they lift the cap after a period of time passes or is it a scarlet letter for life?

200K a month is more than a usual amount. They probably need to make sure you aren’t laundering money.

I would be happy they only capped you, and didn’t shut you down completely.

Re: My first FR

simplynoir — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 05:48:43 GMT

@DeeBee78 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
36 months with Amex. 3 accounts. $200k per month spend. Just got hit with FR. quite annoying but understandable I guess. I don’t want to comply. Right now they capped my spend to $50k. My question is, if I don’t comply with FR and instead accept their lowering of my spend cap, do they lift the cap after a period of time passes or is it a scarlet letter for life?
200K a month is more than a usual amount. They probably need to make sure you aren’t laundering money.

I would be happy they only capped you, and didn’t shut you down completely.

Pretty much this. Assuming personal accounts they probably want IV/4506 to make sure you have the income to support that type of spend and are not involved in MS/laundering. And I have a hard time seeing them ever lifting the cap if you don't comply with their request if they don't shut you down period that is. Those that get temporarily shutdown for FR don't get back in if they don't give what AMEX wants; I'm amazed all they did is cap you as DeeBee said.

Re: My first FR

HeavenOhio — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:32:52 GMT

Is this financial review or income verification? Financial review is onerous and usually involves shutting down accounts, at least temporarily. Income verification is merely nosy.

Re: My first FR

K-in-Boston — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 15:19:09 GMT

The spend cap has me wondering if it's a request for income verification via 4506-T as HeavenOhio wrote. If so, you do not have to comply, but it's doubtful that they will ever lift that cap. If it is an actual Account Review, I'll just echo that failure to comply will result in the account being shut down and even decades from now it's likely that the only way back in will be to give them what they want.

What are the three cards that the charges are going onto? All personal, all business, a mixture of the two? Has the approx. $2.5 million in annual spend on their cards been constant throughout the 3 years you've been with them, has it come one suddenly, had it steadily ramped up?

Re: My first FR

arkane — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 15:32:25 GMT

If the 200K is all personal spend then thumbs up and I aspire to be you some day is all I can say. (I'm assuming you're not laundering money since you're openly posting about it here LOL)

Re: My first FR

RicHowe — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 15:58:00 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
36 months with Amex. 3 accounts. $200k per month spend. Just got hit with FR. quite annoying but understandable I guess. I don’t want to comply. Right now they capped my spend to $50k. My question is, if I don’t comply with FR and instead accept their lowering of my spend cap, do they lift the cap after a period of time passes or is it a scarlet letter for life?

If it's a true FR then non compliance will result in total closing of the accounts as others have mentioned. 200k to 50k is a pretty big SL hit. Are you sure you don't want to comply?

Re: My first FR

K-in-Boston — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 16:10:37 GMT

@arkane wrote:
If the 200K is all personal spend then thumbs up and I aspire to be you some day is all I can say. (I'm assuming you're not laundering money since you're openly posting about it here LOL)

MFW OP actually operates a refurbishing business and has a contract with the Bureau of Engraving and Printing.

Re: My first FR

arkane — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 16:27:53 GMT

Re: My first FR

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 17:37:48 GMT

You might be under consideration for a Centurion card.

They don't want their brand to be associated with drug dealers, ponzi schemers and so forth so they may be checking you out to see if you are a legitimate high income/wealth customer.

Re: My first FR

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 17:54:59 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
You might be under consideration for a Centurion card.

They don't want their brand to be associated with drug dealers, ponzi schemers and so forth so they may be checking you out to see if you are a legitimate high income/wealth customer.

Interesting point on the Centurion card. That easily surpasses the supposed 250K/year entry point in your spending patterns.

OP, you are saying you have been with AMEX for 3 years so how long has it been 200K/month?

Re: My first FR

Anonymous — Fri, 15 Dec 2017 21:13:15 GMT

my 3 cards are:

plat = personal

2 biz gold for biz

i dont launder money or do any dirty biz. most of the my personal spend is between $10k and $30k per month. on the biz, its all vendors, mostly government agencies, service providers, and postage. they said my credit was what triggered the review, which made no sense because they then proceeded to tell me that my score is a 784. for the past 2+ years i have never spent less than $100k per month and always paid on time and in full. i have a bank facility so i dont really need to use amex. i like getting the points, but i dont like the idea of faxing my personal info to them. maybe i am just being paranoid

Re: My first FR

CreditCuriosity — Fri, 15 Dec 2017 23:51:17 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
my 3 cards are:
plat = personal
2 biz gold for biz

i dont launder money or do any dirty biz. most of the my personal spend is between $10k and $30k per month. on the biz, its all vendors, mostly government agencies, service providers, and postage. they said my credit was what triggered the review, which made no sense because they then proceeded to tell me that my score is a 784. for the past 2+ years i have never spent less than $100k per month and always paid on time and in full. i have a bank facility so i dont really need to use amex. i like getting the points, but i dont like the idea of faxing my personal info to them. maybe i am just being paranoid

Dont have to fax them anything all can be done online through their website

Re: My first FR

Anonymous — Sat, 16 Dec 2017 04:31:57 GMT

If you have the documents don't sweat it. Just submit it. Use the online method cc talked about. If you have a "strong" client base this should be easy review.

Re: My first FR

Anonymous — Sat, 16 Dec 2017 08:00:51 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
36 months with Amex. 3 accounts. $200k per month spend. Just got hit with FR. quite annoying but understandable I guess. I don’t want to comply. Right now they capped my spend to $50k. My question is, if I don’t comply with FR and instead accept their lowering of my spend cap, do they lift the cap after a period of time passes or is it a scarlet letter for life?

I would just close the accounts.

If enough people did this, AMEX would stop doing FR's or lose a ton of business.

This company does more FR's than every other card issuer combined.

I've promised myself if I were to ever get hit with a FR, I would kiss AMEX good bye. I mean really, I just want to use my card. I don't want to go to the store, have the card declined because no notice was given, and then not be able to use my card for a week in a half because I had to jump through hoops do get it/them unlocked again. There's competing cards that are just as good or better than AMEX.

Re: My first FR

trusty — Sat, 16 Dec 2017 17:38:56 GMT

The AMEX FR topic has been dissected down to a science in forums just like these.

There are quite a few reasons that a cardholder can be brought up for review. Other than the obvious reasons of lates, cash advances, excessive disputes, and irregular spending... there's also shopping at establishments that AMEX doesn't deem to be consistent with their standards. Basically, if you use your cards at places like McDonalds, or Walmart; than you increase the likelihood of a financial review. To wit: If you can't afford to grab lunch from a decent upscale establishment, or shop at a place that isn't filled with double-wide Americans, than you must be hurting.

AMEX used to straight up state this practice of profiling in letters to its customers. "Other customers who have used their card at establishments where you recently shopped have a poor repayment history with American Express." Some years back, they reportedly stopped doing that. But, I don't know anyone who actually believes that they don't still profile customer behaviors when making decisions.

Personally, I think that random account suspensions should be something that's regulated by policy, particularly against account holders that have only exhibited an exemplary history of on time payments. They should only be allowed to review financials at account opening, or due to lack of timely payment.

It's totally unconscionable to inexplicably and without warning shut down those that have nothing less than 100% on time repayment. The embarrassment these random shutdowns engender - in many cases - when account holders are on vacation - is totally uncalled for, and is basically akin to slander.

Like the previous poster pointed out. If more users with prolific use would challenge these outright abuses, the hurt to their bottom line will cause them to rethink their equivocation.

Re: My first FR

K-in-Boston — Sat, 16 Dec 2017 17:38:16 GMT

@trusty wrote:
The AMEX FR topic has been dissected down to a science in forums just like these.

There are quite a few reasons that a cardholder can be brought up for review. Other than the obvious reasons of lates, or cash advances, and irregular spending... there's also shopping at establishments that AMEX doesn't deem to be consistent with their standards. Basically, if you use your cards at places like McDonalds, or Walmart; than you increase the likelihood of a financial review. To wit: If you can't afford to grab lunch from a decent upscale establishment, or shop at a place that isn't filled with double-wide Americans, than you must be hurting.

AMEX used to straight up state this practice of profiling in letters to its customers. "Other customers who have used their card at establishments where you recently shopped have a poor repayment history with American Express." Some years back, they reportedly stopped doing that. But, I don't know anyone who actually believes that they don't still profile customer behaviors when making decisions.

Amex stopped this practice in 2009. Because it's the only feasible option available around my office, I have fast food meals for lunch almost daily. There's also the matter of the constant Dunkin' Donuts charges, which likely fall under fast food. That's painting with a very broad brush to say that someone who is making fast food charges is doing so because they can't afford to eat elsewhere. Have you seen the prices of fast food (at least in the Northeast)? It's hard to walk out the door without spending $13-15 for a single lunch meal. While I don't/won't shop at Wal-Mart, I have never received any type of AA from American Express after thousands of fast food transactions over the years.

Re: My first FR

K-in-Boston — Sat, 16 Dec 2017 17:46:09 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I would just close the accounts.
If enough people did this, AMEX would stop doing FR's or lose a ton of business.

This company does more FR's than every other card issuer combined.

I've promised myself if I were to ever get hit with a FR, I would kiss AMEX good bye. I mean really, I just want to use my card. I don't want to go to the store, have the card declined because no notice was given, and then not be able to use my card for a week in a half because I had to jump through hoops do get it/them unlocked again. There's competing cards that are just as good or better than AMEX.

Why would someone close perfectly good accounts simply because of a FR? I doubt Amex would stop doing them because of losing some customers; they've identified a risk and are covering themselves. They have every right to ensure that a customer is able to repay credit extended to them! I'm sure they'd lose a lot more in chargeoffs than in ostracized customers if they stopped the practice. I'd also question whether they do more financial reviews than every other issuer combined - at least on these forums we see Synchrony much more than Amex. And I don't personally know anyone in real life that has been subjected to an Amex FR. You have to remember that these forums consist of a LOT of outliers when it comes to credit.

I personally have no other cards that compete with American Express for the type of rewards I want, nor am I aware of others that exist.

Re: My first FR

trusty — Sat, 16 Dec 2017 17:53:52 GMT

@K-in-Boston wrote:
@trusty wrote:
The AMEX FR topic has been dissected down to a science in forums just like these.

There are quite a few reasons that a cardholder can be brought up for review. Other than the obvious reasons of lates, or cash advances, and irregular spending... there's also shopping at establishments that AMEX doesn't deem to be consistent with their standards. Basically, if you use your cards at places like McDonalds, or Walmart; than you increase the likelihood of a financial review. To wit: If you can't afford to grab lunch from a decent upscale establishment, or shop at a place that isn't filled with double-wide Americans, than you must be hurting.

AMEX used to straight up state this practice of profiling in letters to its customers. "Other customers who have used their card at establishments where you recently shopped have a poor repayment history with American Express." Some years back, they reportedly stopped doing that. But, I don't know anyone who actually believes that they don't still profile customer behaviors when making decisions.
Amex stopped this practice in 2009. Because it's the only feasible option available around my office, I have fast food meals for lunch almost daily. There's also the matter of the constant Dunkin' Donuts charges, which likely fall under fast food. That's painting with a very broad brush to say that someone who is making fast food charges is doing so because they can't afford to eat elsewhere. Have you seen the prices of fast food (at least in the Northeast)? It's hard to walk out the door without spending $13-15 for a single lunch meal. While I don't/won't shop at Wal-Mart, I have never received any type of AA from American Express after thousands of fast food transactions over the years.

You just answered one half of your theory... in that, you don't shop at Walmart.

The other half - "fast food" - is not just all fast food. Do you eat at McDonalds? You see, Dunkin' is not considered a second class establishment.

I don't know what all is included on the list. But, it's basically just a... do you consort with peasants kind of thing. If you go to places that frequents upscale clientele, than you have nothing to worry about.

Also, AMEX have stated that they stopped doing it. Clearly from their continuous adverse behavior against solid cardholders, they still profile activity based on subjective data points. What the details of all their profiling measures are... they would never reveal. But, process of elimination...

I just echo the sentiments from many others; If you plan to go on vacaction, dont leave home without a few backups.