topic Re: A few questions after recent app spree in Credit Cards

A few questions after recent app spree

arkane — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 04:54:05 GMT

I've spent way too much time on here after my recent app spree in November, so thought I'd get these out of my system before I start yanking my hair out.

Prior to app spree:

- 5 years perfect history with BofA Cash Rewards; 5K limit to 15K after 2 years, util always <10%
- 802 TU, 780+ EQ, 771+ EX

Finally decided to take advantage of my credit score and applied for:

1. Chase Amazon Prime on Nov 11, 9K SL

2. Discover It on Nov 22, 2K SL rasied to 2.5K (lol) after calling backdoor number

3. Barclays Uber Visa on Nov 30, auto-denial to 5K SL on manual review

(if it matters, both Discover and Barclays dinged me for having only 1 open account despite perfect history, hence the (relatively) low SL)

Now onto the questions:
1. The 2.5K on the Discover It card is driving me nuts and I'd like to see it grow as fast as reasonably possible. Did a lot of reading around here and it seems heavy usage + keeping util between 10% and 30% might be the best way forward? I know it's YMMV but if anybody has either a similar profile or experience please do share.

2. Been reading up quite a bit on Barclays AA horror stories, and the more I read, the more worried I get. Especially since I was initiallly auto-denied by the computer, and they only pulled TU so obviously didn't see any of the other inquiries or accounts reporting. What's the best course of action to minimize any chance of AA? I plan on keeping util <10% at all times, even if it means paying multiple times throughout the month. Or should I go even further and just PIF before statement cuts so it reports a 0 balance at least for the first couple months? (but I don't want some stupid automated system pulling my file and thinking I'm not using the card at all...)

3. I would obviously like to cushion the blow to my score as much as possible, and am already in the process of starting an Alliant SSL (which will further cut my AAoA to only around 12 months, but at least it passes the 1 year mark). I'm also aware of the AZEO method to squeeze every last possible point, but I feel it might be incompatible with my desire to increase my limit with Discover, if it keeps reporting a 0 balance every month (or every other month). Or does showing a 0 balance even matter for CLIs with Discover? I'm assuming they keep track and see all your activities during the month?

Thanks so much

Re: A few questions after recent app spree

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 05:18:04 GMT

Regarding Barclaycard, my history with them is admittedly short. I opened an Arrival + in July. I heavily utilized it for the bonus, putting $3,000 through it in three weeks. Since the bonus, I’ve maintained between $300-$500 of spend monthly. I let less than $100 report once by accident.

In October, I applied for an Aviator Red card. It was initially auto-declined. I called for a reconsideration and was told it auto-declined because it had been less than six months since my arrival plus approval. I’m not sure how valid that was. The CSR literally counted my newly open accounts and referenced each one. I gave him my explanation and he came back with an approval for the card.

I’m not sure what insight this provides but I had 6 new credit card accounts in six months at the time of the recon approval. It’s possible AA or CLD happen as a result of computer generated auto-reviews. But I think it’s also possible we never quite get the full picture when these things occur to people. We only know what information were given.

I’d say, YMMV.

Re: A few questions after recent app spree

arkane — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 05:55:37 GMT

I'm going to assume you have the chance for recon if any AA or CLD is to be taken? I guess I'd at least want the opportunity to speak with a human instead of being stonewalled by a mindless computer.

I think I gave a pretty full picture but for completeness sake I'll report the damage:

- 2 inquries on EQ (technically 3, but one was for setting up Comcast internet), 1 each on TU and EX (Chase pulled both EQ and EX )

- TU already dropped 35 points from 802 to 767 with 1 inq and 2 accounts reporting (Barclays is fast!)

- EX at 771 according to Discover Scorecard, but also with only 2 accounts reporting

- EQ unknown, but CreditKarma shows FAKO of 724 with 3 inq and 3 accounts reporting; real FICO likely 20-30 points higher based on past experience

And let's just say income is high five-figures.

I'm expecting probably another 20 point drop when all accounts start reporting. Hmmm now I'm wondering if I should hold back on the Alliant SSL, but if I pay it down to <8.9% balance before it reports it shouldn't be viewed too negatively??? Or would this be seen as "aggressive credit seeking behavior"?

Re: A few questions after recent app spree

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 06:04:32 GMT

As long as you don’t plan on continuing to apply for things, I don’t think you have anything to worry about.

Are you reporting true FICO TU scores or Vantage 3.0 TU scores? Vantage score drops will be more dramatic than FICO score drops due to new inquires and new accounts being more heavily weighted.

With the new cards reporting, your overall utility should improve which should result in a score increase though due to your already low utility it won’t be much.

If you don’t have an installment loan reporting, getting one will improve your overall credit mix and should improve your score. Paying it down to that 8.9% threshold should give you more points as the proportions of balance to loan amount owed will be lower.

Re: A few questions after recent app spree

Np1791 — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 06:09:57 GMT

Question. Why did you apply for the chase Amazon Prime card? I have it too but I’ve been thinking of closing it since it doesn’t really offer any special finance options on purchases. What was your reason for getting it?

Re: A few questions after recent app spree

arkane — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 06:24:27 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
As long as you don’t plan on continuing to apply for things, I don’t think you have anything to worry about.

Are you reporting true FICO TU scores or Vantage 3.0 TU scores? Vantage score drops will be more dramatic than FICO score drops due to new inquires and new accounts being more heavily weighted.

With the new cards reporting, your overall utility should improve which should result in a score increase though due to your already low utility it won’t be much.

If you don’t have an installment loan reporting, getting one will improve your overall credit mix and should improve your score. Paying it down to that 8.9% threshold should give you more points as the proportions of balance to loan amount owed will be lower.

True TU FICO provided by Barclays; BofA hasn't updated and is still showing 802 lol.

Oh believe me when I say I'm good for at least the next 6-12 months if not longer. For me this particular mix of 4 is as good as it gets for no AF cash back cards. The only other card I'd even remotely consider at this point would be the Wells Fargo Visa Signature Card, but that's a long ways out, and if I'm solely focused on cash back, getting a second Discover It might be the better choice.

Yeah it seems getting a new installment loan for people who have otherwise none in that area really helps with the score. I guess my concern is whether Barclays (or any other lender for that matter) might balk at the idea of me going from 1 to 5 TL within a span of 2 months.

Re: A few questions after recent app spree

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 06:19:30 GMT

With your scores, despite your limited (number of accounts) revolving history, I think you can be assured that no AA will occur.

Re: A few questions after recent app spree

arkane — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 06:23:09 GMT

@Np1791 wrote:
Question. Why did you apply for the chase Amazon Prime card? I have it too but I’ve been thinking of closing it since it doesn’t really offer any special finance options on purchases. What was your reason for getting it?

I spend $1500-2500 on Amazon annually, so with 5% unlimited cash back it seemed like a good way to get free Prime membership every year. But this was before I entertained the idea of getting a 3rd (and eventually 4th) card, and then discovered (heh) that Discover was also offering 5% cash back on Amazon for this quarter and also Q4 of 2018. (technically 10% due to cash back match, which actually makes it superior to the Amazon card!) I know I know, I shoulda done my homework, oh well.

Also if I were 100% honest, the metal factor is pretty nice. I like shiny things what can I say LOL

Re: A few questions after recent app spree

arkane — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 06:29:37 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
With your scores, despite your limited (number of accounts) revolving history, I think you can be assured that no AA will occur.

Ok thanks. I'll be on my best behavior for the next few months in any case just to be safe. I think spending too much time on here really messes with your perception sometimes.

Btw I see you also have a Discover It card, any comments regarding the questions about Discover CLIs and 0 statement balance?

Re: A few questions after recent app spree

HeavenOhio — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:27:05 GMT

@Np1791 wrote:
Question. Why did you apply for the chase Amazon Prime card? I have it too but I’ve been thinking of closing it since it doesn’t really offer any special finance options on purchases. What was your reason for getting it?

I like the Chase card because it's a Visa that can be used anywhere. Along with that, 2% cash back on restaurant and drug store spending beats what I get on any of my other cards. And 2% on gas ties my BCE for my best gas reward. The lack of a foreign transaction fee is a nice perk too. With no FTF, even the 1% cash back on general spending becomes useful.

Also, I'd much rather deal with Chase than Synchrony. My experience with Chase has been good. I had CareCredit for a while, and my experience with Synchrony left something to be desired. I've since learned here that Chase is much more predictable than Sync. And I learned with CareCredit that I really have no desire to finance anything. I'd much rather pay in full.

Re: A few questions after recent app spree

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:40:53 GMT

Discover is a weird beast. They give rebuilders $10,000 CLs, but someone in the 800s gets a mediocre limit.

Some folks give the card heavy usage with no CLI ever, but then they decide to sock drawer the card and end up with auto CLIs and manual CLIs approved. No rhyme or reason.

I'd say give the card the usage that makes sense to earn rewards. PIF unless it's your AZEO card. Then try manual CLI request (luv button) every month and see if you're on a CLI cycle of 1, 2 or 3 months. Otherwise don't sweat it.

Having a thin history means you'll be building a stronger AAoA all together. Get that Alliant SSL done ASAP so it reports in January. Also make sure to analyze your AAoA now and going forward -- you want to be aware of what it is now, in the future, and where it will be if you app. Get it to 24 months AAoA and then don't app unless a new account keeps you over 24 months. PM me if you need help, I have a spreadsheet that forecasts AAoA that tons of folks use on Facebook groups I'm on and it gets raves because it helps folks stay in the garden.

Re: A few questions after recent app spree

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 14:04:24 GMT

I’ve only had my Discover card since October so I don’t feel like I have enough information to answer that question. I’ve also seen data points on either side of the spend for CLI scenario.

My current strategy is helped by the current 5% categories as I shop heavily on Amazon. By years end, I will likely have spent $3-4K on it. The first month reported a statement balance of around $500 on a $9K starting line. November was PIF before statement cut. December will be also.

I’d say after 60 days it’s safe to ask for a CLI. In January, I may let 1% report and ask for a CLI. I’m on the fence here because I don’t utilize the current limit enough. But since it’s a SP unless stated otherwise, why not? Also, I like the Q1 categories so, I will be heavily utilizing the card. I’ll also have no other cards with requisite sign-up bonus spend as I’ve had for most of this year. I’m don’t with travel cards and bonuses for a while.

In short, I think good spend and time will result in a CLI but there are folks who don’t get any Discover CLI love regardless of strategy and spend loyalty? Where’s @averagejoescredit? 👀 Then I have two friends that have seen 100% auto-increases over the years with virtually no usage.

I hope that answered your question.

Re: A few questions after recent app spree

SBR249 — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 14:25:54 GMT

I would say that out of all my cards Discover has been one of the ones that has treated me very well. I started out with 3.5K CL less than 3 years ago and just through the quarterly SP CLIs it's grown to 16.5K which is now my highest CL. I didn't even request CLIs regularly since I was living abroad for 2 years of that time and didn't put that much spend on the card (Discover not really accepted in Europe).

For comparison, I apped a C1 Venture One around the same time and was given 10K initially and it has stayed 10K ever since. I wouldn't say I put heavy spending on it but it did get regular spending and C1 denied me a CLI recently for not enough spending. So I PCed it to QS and SDed it.

Re: A few questions after recent app spree

arkane — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 15:04:12 GMT

@HeavenOhio wrote:
@Np1791 wrote:
Question. Why did you apply for the chase Amazon Prime card? I have it too but I’ve been thinking of closing it since it doesn’t really offer any special finance options on purchases. What was your reason for getting it?
I like the Chase card because it's a Visa that can be used anywhere. Along with that, 2% cash back on restaurant and drug store spending beats what I get on any of my other cards. And 2% on gas ties my BCE for my best gas reward. The lack of a foreign transaction fee is a nice perk too. With no FTF, even the 1% cash back on general spending becomes useful.

Also, I'd much rather deal with Chase than Synchrony. My experience with Chase has been good. I had CareCredit for a while, and my experience with Synchrony left something to be desired. I've since learned here that Chase is much more predictable than Sync. And I learned with CareCredit that I really have no desire to finance anything. I'd much rather pay in full.

Yeah for a "store card" Chase Amazon comes with very decent cash back % + no FTF making it fully viable as a daily driver.

In my case though it went from "everything except gas and groceries" to "when am I ever gonna use this except on Amazon"?? My BofA Cash Rewards gets me 3% gas and 2% groceries (I have Preferred Rewards too so the actual % is higher). Discover has rotating 5% cash back quarterly categories (10% effective in first year due to cash back match), and Uber has 4% dining, 3% travel, and 2% online shopping (Paypal, Venmo etc now included), which pretty much covers 95% of my spending habits, basically making the Chase Amazon obsolete for my needs. But at least it'll make it easy to keep 0 balance if I don't have any natural use for it.

Re: A few questions after recent app spree

arkane — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 15:18:37 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Discover is a weird beast. They give rebuilders $10,000 CLs, but someone in the 800s gets a mediocre limit.

Some folks give the card heavy usage with no CLI ever, but then they decide to sock drawer the card and end up with auto CLIs and manual CLIs approved. No rhyme or reason.

I'd say give the card the usage that makes sense to earn rewards. PIF unless it's your AZEO card. Then try manual CLI request (luv button) every month and see if you're on a CLI cycle of 1, 2 or 3 months. Otherwise don't sweat it.

Definitely sounds like the most sensible thing to do. Luckily the Q4 category for this year is Amazon+Target, and gift cards DO count, so after doing my holiday shopping I just loaded up on gift cards to hit that $1500 cap.

See the thing I'm trying to figure out is whether to keep this as the AZEO card, or just PIF before statement cut and forghedaboudit, given that I do need (yes need ) that CLI. But seems like it's a crapshoot either way so might as well just PIF, especially since Barclays tends to get jealous, and I do want to put 5K through the Uber visa for that $50 credit towards Amazon Prime. Or maybe let both Discover and Uber report a small (<10% util) balance, since 2/4 is technically 50% revolving accoutns reporting so I shouldn't get dinged too hard.

Having a thin history means you'll be building a stronger AAoA all together. Get that Alliant SSL done ASAP so it reports in January. Also make sure to analyze your AAoA now and going forward -- you want to be aware of what it is now, in the future, and where it will be if you app. Get it to 24 months AAoA and then don't app unless a new account keeps you over 24 months. PM me if you need help, I have a spreadsheet that forecasts AAoA that tons of folks use on Facebook groups I'm on and it gets raves because it helps folks stay in the garden.

If I did my math correctly, applying for a 5th card (6th open account) at the 17 month mark from Nov 2017 (so May 2019) will still allow AAoA to be above 24 months. If I close the Chase Amazon account, then I can apply for another card around the 15 month mark and keep AAoA at 24 months. Long gardening ahead of me either way.

Re: A few questions after recent app spree

HeavenOhio — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 16:49:02 GMT

Closed accounts count toward your account age stats in both FICO and VantageScore. Note that CreditKarma's front end software doesn't include them, but that's an issue with Karma because it doesn't accurately reflect on what the scores do.

It's generally a good thing because they continue to age as long as they're on your report. That gives you a cushion when you add new accounts down the road.

The exception might be if you got an immediate bump if the account were to drop tomorrow. But you'd lose the benefit of the padding later.

Re: A few questions after recent app spree

arkane — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 18:01:00 GMT

Cool good to know re Credit Karma's quirks. Yeah even if it dropped tomorrow it bumps up my timeline by a whooping 2 months, so most likely I'll end up just keeping this in the sock drawer (and for when my Amazon spending gets slightly out of control )

Re: A few questions after recent app spree

arkane — Wed, 27 Dec 2017 03:09:02 GMT

Sorry for necro, but thought I'd share a data point that someone may find useful.

All new accounts have started reporting, and I'm currently AZEO with the Uber visa showing a $15 balance for the fast card fee. (the balance is actually $260 something but the statement just cut on the 23rd). TU08 score is 777 as of Dec 19 according to BoA, with "length of time accounts have been established" and "lack of recent installment loan information" cited as ding factors.

So to recap, in one month I went from:

- one open revolver, 3% util, AAoA 5 years, 0 inq

to:

- four open revolvers, 1% util, AAoA 1 year 4 months, 1 inq

And my TU08 score dropped "only" 25 points from 802 to 777. I was so worried I'd see a massive 50+ point landslide due to significantly slashing my AAoA and going from 0-->1 inq, so I'm really happy with this outcome. I opened an Alliant SSL on Dec 14 so hopefully the score will only go up from here once that starts reporting (I plan on sticking to the AZEO routine religiously )

Re: A few questions after recent app spree

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Dec 2017 03:08:12 GMT

You came dangerously close to the 1 year AAoA threshold though. Had you broke that you WOULD have gone down over 50.

Re: A few questions after recent app spree

arkane — Wed, 27 Dec 2017 03:14:14 GMT

Good to know. Yeah I know as long as I cross an integer value FICO doesn't care whether it's 1.1 or 1.9 years. I've pretty much maxed out my AAoA buffer from my 5 year card (5 accounts = 1 year AAoA, which is what I'll be at once the Alliant SSL hits), so time to head to the garden.