topic Re: Applying for multiple CCs: over time or all at once? in Credit Cards

Applying for multiple CCs: over time or all at once?

brother7 — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:32:09 GMT

I have 1 credit card (active) and 1 store charge card (inactive).

Both accounts are 10 years old.

I'm about to kill my AAoA by applying for more cards in the next 1-2 months because:

I want to transition to cashback/rewards cards, which my current credit card is not,
I want to add store charge cards to improve my credit mix (my current one is inactive and the store is no longer in my area), and
I'll soon be an independent contractor and want to separate personal and business expenses.

I don't plan on applying for any home mortgages or car loans for at least another 2-3 years.

Here's my current want list:

Credit Cards

Costco TrueEarnings
AMEX Blue Cash
PenFed Visa Platinum Gas Cash Reward
Discover More

Store Cards

Home Depot Commercial Revolving Charge
(something useful, but I'm not sure what... maybe WalMart?)
(probably a gas card, just to add to the credit mix)

My scores should see a jump at end-March due to util < 10%. Once I pay my CC off, I'll write a GW letter to my CCC asking to have some 30-day lates removed. After all that is when I plan to apply for the above-mentioned cards.

My question is...

To maximize my chances for approval of all of the above, should I apply all at once, or space them out? If space them out, over how long? I kinda want to get at least 2 credit cards quickly; preferably the Costco TrueEarnings and Discover More. I really want the PenFed Visa but I don't think I'll be able to get it with a tax lien, even if released

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Re: Applying for multiple CCs: over time or all at once?

PayingTheBills — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 16:17:31 GMT

This is what Equifax says about it, I copy/pasted this from my Score Watch page:

"New inquiries on your credit report may lower your FICO score by a modest amount. Multiple inquiries can lower the score a little more than a single inquiry. But note that multiple inquiries within a two-week period are treated as a single inquiry.

Multiple inquiries may indicate that a consumer is in desperate search of credit. Typically, the more badly a consumer needs credit, the greater the chances that they cannot pay debts. This is why inquiries can cause a modest drop in the FICO score.

You only receive inquiry alerts as the result of applying for new credit accounts. This is the only kind of inquiry that affects your FICO score. Other kinds, such as promotional inquiries made by credit card companies to pre-approve you for an offer, have no effect. Similarly, inquiries resulting from you accessing your own credit report, have no effect."

Message Edited by PayingTheBills on 03-17-2009 12:17 PM

Re: Applying for multiple CCs: over time or all at once?

score_building — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 16:31:58 GMT

PayingTheBills wrote:

This is what Equifax says about it, I copy/pasted this from my Score Watch page:

supposedly only mortgage and auto inqs are treated as one in a specified time frame. are they saying that multiple inqs of any kind are treated as a single inq for scoring purposes? who knew?! can a mod or someone clarify. the way this reads seems incomplete and a bit misleading...

Re: Applying for multiple CCs: over time or all at once?

PayingTheBills — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:15:50 GMT

This was a note that was attached Score Watch report under my Cap1 CC inquiry from 2 days ago.

I hope a mod chimes in here too, because I also thought this only applied to mortgage and auto loans.

Message Edited by PayingTheBills on 03-17-2009 01:15 PM

Re: Applying for multiple CCs: over time or all at once?

haulingthescoreup — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 18:29:01 GMT

PayingTheBills wrote:

This was a note that was attached Score Watch report under my Cap1 CC inquiry from 2 days ago.

I hope a mod chimes in here too, because I also thought this only applied to mortgage and auto loans.

I've heard that several apps with the same lender are de-duped, but not with multiple lenders.

EQ hounded me for a year for 5 inqs, all of which hit within a 48-hour period. They sure didn't feel de-duped to me.

This might be another case of Equifax (which invented Score Watch) needing to proof-read their stuff better. I may well be wrong, though. I'll see if I can find out something.

brother7 wrote:

...Here's my current want list:

Credit Cards
Costco TrueEarnings
AMEX Blue Cash
PenFed Visa Platinum Gas Cash Reward
Discover More

Store Cards
Home Depot Commercial Revolving Charge
(something useful, but I'm not sure what... maybe WalMart?)
(probably a gas card, just to add to the credit mix)

...Any advice is greatly appreciated.

OK, here's my advice: this is serious overkill with the cards. Trust me, I got 6 new cards and an auto loan last spring, and 3 cards and the loan would have been plenty.

Pick two rewards cards and one store card, period. I do understand the get-it-over-with-now idea; I did it myself. But in fact, it's a huge PITA to keep this many cards happy with regular, significant usage. And with rewards cards, the name of the game is to take one or two and just flat wear them out.

Have you run the numbers on how Blue Cash works? That especially is a card that must be used almost exclusively to get the real cash back. Discover More keeps jumping around with how much you have to spend to get significant rewards. PenFed is definitely the keeper of the group.

For the credit mix thing, a store card OR a gas card is all you need. No bonus points for one of each. Skip WalMart if your scores are decent. GEMB will drive you nuts. If the HD card is truly retail (not also a MasterCard), and if it reports to your personal reports, that sounds like the one to go with.

I don't remember off the top of my head what else you have, but if your AAoA is currently 10 - 12 years, adding three cards would only drop you to around 5 years AAoA, depending on what other older accounts you have. (Sorry, you've probably run the math already, but just in case...) I would aim for a strategy involving the numbers of cards and the timing on them that keeps you from going below 5 years AAoA. I'm not sure if 5 years or 6 is one of the apparent score bucket breaks, so don't go any younger.

I just barely climbed over 4 years on my new AAoA, and it will take a long time for it to grow, because I have a lot of older, closed stuff that is going to start falling off. You're going to kick yourself for a long, long time if you blow your average age out of the water. Plus again, trying to keep that many cards busy and happy. Remember that for future CLI's, banks like to see lots of usage (which is then paid off), and it isn't going to happen with too much plastic, all clamoring for your attention.

Re: Applying for multiple CCs: over time or all at once?

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 18:41:00 GMT

What if you apped for them all within minutes of each other? Would the second one see the inq from the first one? I don't think reports update in realtime, so the second one would not see the inq generated by the first one. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong!

Re: Applying for multiple CCs: over time or all at once?

haulingthescoreup — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 18:44:30 GMT

Mike14 wrote:
What if you apped for them all within minutes of each other? Would the second one see the inq from the first one? I don't think reports update in realtime, so the second one would not see the inq generated by the first one. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong!

Yes, the inqs hit real-time. I once pulled a TC report as I hung up after apping, and the inq was there. The actual new account generally takes a while to show up, although I think BofA popped up with a couple of days.

That's why anyone who is applying for PenFed plus other cards should always app PenFed first. They will most definitely see the other inqs. Bad enough when they see the other new accounts start popping up over the next week to two months.

Re: Applying for multiple CCs: over time or all at once?

brother7 — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 19:53:24 GMT

@haulingthescoreup wrote:
OK, here's my advice: this is serious overkill with the cards. Trust me, I got 6 new cards and an auto loan last spring, and 3 cards and the loan would have been plenty.

Pick two rewards cards and one store card, period. I do understand the get-it-over-with-now idea; I did it myself. But in fact, it's a huge PITA to keep this many cards happy with regular, significant usage. And with rewards cards, the name of the game is to take one or two and just flat wear them out.

Have you run the numbers on how Blue Cash works? That especially is a card that must be used almost exclusively to get the real cash back. Discover More keeps jumping around with how much you have to spend to get significant rewards. PenFed is definitely the keeper of the group.

For the credit mix thing, a store card OR a gas card is all you need. No bonus points for one of each. Skip WalMart if your scores are decent. GEMB will drive you nuts. If the HD card is truly retail (not also a MasterCard), and if it reports to your personal reports, that sounds like the one to go with.

I don't remember off the top of my head what else you have, but if your AAoA is currently 10 - 12 years, adding three cards would only drop you to around 5 years AAoA, depending on what other older accounts you have. (Sorry, you've probably run the math already, but just in case...) I would aim for a strategy involving the numbers of cards and the timing on them that keeps you from going below 5 years AAoA. I'm not sure if 5 years or 6 is one of the apparent score bucket breaks, so don't go any younger.

I just barely climbed over 4 years on my new AAoA, and it will take a long time for it to grow, because I have a lot of older, closed stuff that is going to start falling off. You're going to kick yourself for a long, long time if you blow your average age out of the water. Plus again, trying to keep that many cards busy and happy. Remember that for future CLI's, banks like to see lots of usage (which is then paid off), and it isn't going to happen with too much plastic, all clamoring for your attention.

Thanks for clarifying that for credit mix, EITHER a store card OR a gas card is what's needed. I've lived without a gas card this long and was only considering it for credit mix.

Yes, I'm aware of how Blue Cash works, and that you have to pass the $6500 threshold before you earn the highest reward tier. After more thought, perhaps Blue Cash isn't necessary, especially since True Earnings is already an AMEX product.

Here's a tip for consumers who use Blue Cash and want to effectively reduce the $6500 limit to $4000... buy cash! Read the article Busting Cashback Tiers with Mint’s $1 Coin Direct Ship Program

Concerning store cards, I chose Home Depot because my future career is real estate salesperson and I thought Home Depot would be most useful for preparing houses to put on the market. It is a store card, not Visa or MC-branded. I guess I'll skip WalMart.

My current cards are a First Hawaiian Bank MC ($5000 CL, soon to be PIF) and a JCPenney charge card ($224 CL, 0 bal, still open but unused). They were opened at the same time (11/1998) so each is 10 years, 4 months old.

Concerning AAoA, my combined months on my 2 cards is 248. Here's my AAoA calculations:

2 current cards: AAoA = 124 = 10 yrs, 4 mths
add 1 card: AAoA = 82 = 6 yrs, 10 mths
add 2 cards: AAoA = 62 = 5 yrs, 2 mths
add 3 cards: AAoA = 49 = 4 yrs, 1 mth
add 4 cards: AAoA = 41 = 3 yrs, 5 mths
add 5 cards: AAoA = 35= 2 yrs, 11 mths

I don't mind taking the hit to AAoA now, as I don't plan on buying a house or car for another 2-3 years. By then, the new accounts I open now will be nicely aged, I think. I'm not going to cancel my 2 existing cards, even if I stop using them, because the loss in age would be too big of a hit.

Message Edited by brother7 on 03-17-2009 09:53 AM

Re: Applying for multiple CCs: over time or all at once?

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:01:31 GMT

ok dumb question, but is Amex Blue Cash a card that allows you to carry a balance indefinitely or is it one of Amex's cards that makes you pay it all off after 30 days?

Re: Applying for multiple CCs: over time or all at once?

score_building — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:04:38 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
ok dumb question, but is Amex Blue Cash a card that allows you to carry a balance indefinitely or is it one of Amex's cards that makes you pay it all off after 30 days?

it's a cc (revolver) not a charge card.

Re: Applying for multiple CCs: over time or all at once?

haulingthescoreup — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 00:35:02 GMT

score_building wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:
ok dumb question, but is Amex Blue Cash a card that allows you to carry a balance indefinitely or is it one of Amex's cards that makes you pay it all off after 30 days?

it's a cc (revolver) not a charge card.

But if you have any sense of self-preservation whatsoever, you will PIF that thing monthly.

How would you like to be one month away from getting your cash rewards, and have them close your card because you wound up on their fecal chart, and lose all your points? And this absolutely does happen.

brother7 wrote:

Concerning store cards, I chose Home Depot because my future career is real estate salesperson and I thought Home Depot would be most useful for preparing houses to put on the market. It is a store card, not Visa or MC-branded. I guess I'll skip WalMart.

My current cards are a First Hawaiian Bank MC ($5000 CL, soon to be PIF) and a JCPenney charge card ($224 CL, 0 bal, still open but unused). They were opened at the same time (11/1998) so each is 10 years, 4 months old.

Concerning AAoA, my combined months on my 2 cards is 248. Here's my AAoA calculations:
2 current cards: AAoA = 124 = 10 yrs, 4 mths
add 1 card: AAoA = 82 = 6 yrs, 10 mths
add 2 cards: AAoA = 62 = 5 yrs, 2 mths
add 3 cards: AAoA = 49 = 4 yrs, 1 mth
add 4 cards: AAoA = 41 = 3 yrs, 5 mths
add 5 cards: AAoA = 35= 2 yrs, 11 mths

I don't mind taking the hit to AAoA now, as I don't plan on buying a house or car for another 2-3 years. By then, the new accounts I open now will be nicely aged, I think. I'm not going to cancel my 2 existing cards, even if I stop using them, because the loss in age would be too big of a hit.

Home Depot sounds like a great choice for you. They typically have high CL's for store cards, as their goodies are so expensive. And Citi is a civilized bank, compared to some of the others. And a nervous thumbs-up for someone considering entering the Hawaii real estate market!

But if you have a Penney's card, isn't that already your store card? Or does Penney's have a co-branded card? (with the Visa, MC, etc logo.)

Seriously, I'd stop at two cards, leaving you at AAoA of 5 yrs, 2 months. Leave yourself an opening to get a third card in another year or so --let one suggest itself to you. Frankly, the credit markets are so screwed up at the moment that I would hate to commit to a bank that might go under in a couple of months, or be swallowed up by another one.

And as you say, hang on to the cards you have. Keep them exercised and healthy.

Re: Applying for multiple CCs: over time or all at once?

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 01:41:54 GMT

haulingthescoreup, a couple questions:

1) Amex will really shut down your card right before you get cash rewards? wow, if true, that's borderline fraudelent bait-and-switch behavior IMHO

2) what do you mean exactly when you say Citi is a more "civilized" bank?

Thanks

Re: Applying for multiple CCs: over time or all at once?

haulingthescoreup — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 02:11:49 GMT

urgent_help_needed wrote:

haulingthescoreup, a couple questions:

1) Amex will really shut down your card right before you get cash rewards? wow, if true, that's borderline fraudelent bait-and-switch behavior IMHO

2) what do you mean exactly when you say Citi is a more "civilized" bank?

Thanks

OK, I know it's on here somewhere, and I thought it was on Credit in the News, but I can't find it. It was a news story about an AmEx cardholder with Blue Cash, or another of the AmEx cash reward cards, whose card was closed right before her cash returns were due to be posted (and credited.)

At the moment, this is the best that I can find:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/credit_cards/amex_rewards.html

I'm going to keep looking for the other story, and I'll edit it in here when I finally dig it up.

And if anyone else knows where it is, I'd be delighted if you'd post the link here.

As for Citi being a more civilized bank: as I've posted elsewhere, a lot of store cards are (mis-)handled by some very unfriendly banks (GEMB, WFNNB, HSBC come to mind.) Citi has been circling the drain lately, but they have always had a reputation for being a conservative but fair lender. In crisis times, I'd rather have a Citi-backed card than one of the others. (Even though I do have an HSBC and a WFNNB card! Wouldn't have done it if there'd been an alternative.)

eta: here's one, but still not the one I'm thinking of: http://ficoforums.myfico.com/fico/board/message?board.id=creditcard&message.id=140722#M140722

Message Edited by haulingthescoreup on 03-17-2009 07:11 PM

Re: Applying for multiple CCs: over time or all at once?

PayingTheBills — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 02:39:04 GMT

HTSU, I remember reading the article you're referring to, so it must have been here on the forums, but I can't find it either. :shrug:

Re: Applying for multiple CCs: over time or all at once?

Anonymous — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 08:48:39 GMT

real - time?
I remember to receive inq alert from fico the next even the 3rd day after appy.
or maybe i remember wrong?
why 'bad enough'? they will not keep track of your credit report after you are approved.
or, at the time other new accounts appear, if any, they will not have any reason
to pull your credit report to watch.

@haulingthescoreup wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
What if you apped for them all within minutes of each other? Would the second one see the inq from the first one? I don't think reports update in realtime, so the second one would not see the inq generated by the first one. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong!
Yes, the inqs hit real-time. I once pulled a TC report as I hung up after apping, and the inq was there. The actual new account generally takes a while to show up, although I think BofA popped up with a couple of days.

That's why anyone who is applying for PenFed plus other cards should always app PenFed first. They will most definitely see the other inqs. Bad enough when they see the other new accounts start popping up over the next week to two months.

Re: Applying for multiple CCs: over time or all at once?

Anonymous — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 08:50:40 GMT

also consider citi PPE,
good open bonus...

@brother7 wrote:
I have 1 credit card (active) and 1 store charge card (inactive).
Both accounts are 10 years old.

I'm about to kill my AAoA by applying for more cards in the next 1-2 months because:
I want to transition to cashback/rewards cards, which my current credit card is not,
I want to add store charge cards to improve my credit mix (my current one is inactive and the store is no longer in my area), and
I'll soon be an independent contractor and want to separate personal and business expenses.
I don't plan on applying for any home mortgages or car loans for at least another 2-3 years.

Here's my current want list:

Credit Cards
Costco TrueEarnings
AMEX Blue Cash
PenFed Visa Platinum Gas Cash Reward
Discover More
Store Cards
Home Depot Commercial Revolving Charge
(something useful, but I'm not sure what... maybe WalMart?)
(probably a gas card, just to add to the credit mix)
My scores should see a jump at end-March due to util < 10%. Once I pay my CC off, I'll write a GW letter to my CCC asking to have some 30-day lates removed. After all that is when I plan to apply for the above-mentioned cards.

My question is...
To maximize my chances for approval of all of the above, should I apply all at once, or space them out? If space them out, over how long? I kinda want to get at least 2 credit cards quickly; preferably the Costco TrueEarnings and Discover More. I really want the PenFed Visa but I don't think I'll be able to get it with a tax lien, even if released

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Re: Applying for multiple CCs: over time or all at once?

haulingthescoreup — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 11:20:10 GMT

kulin wrote:

real - time?
I remember to receive inq alert from fico the next even the 3rd day after appy.
or maybe i remember wrong?
why 'bad enough'? they will not keep track of your credit report after you are approved.
or, at the time other new accounts appear, if any, they will not have any reason
to pull your credit report to watch.

The inquiries hit your full reports immediately, as in the moment the inquiry is received by the credit bureau. When you get the alerts about them is a different matter. But if you have a credit monitoring service that allows daily pulls, you can see this by doing as I did, and checking the moment they pull the report.

"Bad enough" in that most lenders will soft you for at least the first month after you've been approved to make sure that they're happy with their initial decision. Many members here have stories of having been approved with a certain credit limit, only to have the CL reduced the next month or worse after they put a large balance on another card. My full reports are loaded with soft inquiries from existing creditors keeping an eye on me.

Message Edited by haulingthescoreup on 03-19-2009 04:20 AM

Re: Applying for multiple CCs: over time or all at once?

Anonymous — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 17:16:56 GMT

i went crazy! i app for 6 in 1 day-got4!!! oh, what a rush!! my goal is 25 credit cards!!

Re: Applying for multiple CCs: over time or all at once?

Anonymous — Fri, 20 Mar 2009 03:16:37 GMT

Do all American Express cards come with free credit monitoring service?

including Amex cards issued by other banks?

@haulingthescoreup wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:

real - time?

I remember to receive inq alert from fico the next even the 3rd day after appy.
or maybe i remember wrong?
why 'bad enough'? they will not keep track of your credit report after you are approved.
or, at the time other new accounts appear, if any, they will not have any reason
to pull your credit report to watch.

The inquiries hit your full reports immediately, as in the moment the inquiry is received by the credit bureau. When you get the alerts about them is a different matter. But if you have a credit monitoring service that allows daily pulls, you can see this by doing as I did, and checking the moment they pull the report.

"Bad enough" in that most lenders will soft you for at least the first month after you've been approved to make sure that they're happy with their initial decision. Many members here have stories of having been approved with a certain credit limit, only to have the CL reduced the next month or worse after they put a large balance on another card. My full reports are loaded with soft inquiries from existing creditors keeping an eye on me.
Message Edited by haulingthescoreup on 03-19-2009 04:20 AM

Re: Applying for multiple CCs: over time or all at once?

Anonymous — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 07:42:22 GMT

haulingthescoreup wrote:

I don't remember off the top of my head what else you have, but if your AAoA is currently 10 - 12 years, adding three cards would only drop you to around 5 years AAoA, depending on what other older accounts you have. (Sorry, you've probably run the math already, but just in case...) I would aim for a strategy involving the numbers of cards and the timing on them that keeps you from going below 5 years AAoA. I'm not sure if 5 years or 6 is one of the apparent score bucket breaks, so don't go any younger.

can you tell me more about the AAoA score bucket breaks? I'd love to get some detailed info on where the breaks are.