topic Re: AMEX Financial Review Question in Credit Cards

AMEX Financial Review Question

Anonymous — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 22:02:33 GMT

So I have been a Platinum AMEX member for 11 years and recently got Business Gold Rewards Card for a business I started in November. I had one period of hospitalization from Nov15-May16 during which the Platinum card was charged off. I paid in full the moment I was back on my feet (June16, I think?) and, given my history of completely on time and not small monthly payments, they gave the card back and then, as I said, they approved the Business Gold Rewards card in November.

On 2/28 I got a request for my IRS filings for a financial review. My credit is 731, I've had zero late or missed payments (since the hospitalization period and before) and no abnormally high or low levels of utilization. I explained that given the timing of the request, they would be getting income information for a year of which I spent a good majority in the hospital and which doesn't accurately reflect my income levels. They asked for my expected filing amount this year, which I provided and is significantly higher, and told me that it should be no problem, just that not cooperating would cause cancellation of the accounts. I faxed over the authorization for trasmission of my IRS filings the next morning, confirmed receipt and offered to provide any extra information (bank accounts, investment accounts, etc.) they'd like and they said they didn't need anything else.

I called today to follow up as I hadn't heard anything (my case rep failed to notify me know that she'd be on vacation 3/1-3/10) and received a call back notifying me that my accounts had been cancelled due to 2016's income not matching what was put on my application for my Platinum card. I pointed out that I applied for the Platinum card in 2007. The rep quickly changed course and said that it was because it didn't match what I put for the app on the Gold Card in November. I pointed out that the application asked for my current income, which I gave and that they are basing this decision off my income from 2 years ago which was heavily effected by a period of hospitalization. I think I used the analogy that this is like trying to project sales for this upcoming quarter and asking for numbers from 18 months ago. She took notes on the account, but said that a supervisor would have to call me back. So that's where we are at.

I've made a conscious effort to be thoroughly kind and helpful on the phone, but I am so very frustrated. And now I have no idea what to do.

Questions:

1. Any advice for this call with the supervisor? Anyone have any success reversing one of these decisions?

2. I have 300k+ membership points. The rep in the financial review dept told me that I'd have 30 days from cancellation to transfer them. The rep in membership rewards told me that they are wiped within 48 hours after cancellation. Does anyone have any experience with that part?

3. Any other helpful information or avenues of success in these matters?

Thank you.

Re: AMEX Financial Review Question

bourgogne — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 22:58:05 GMT

sucks. I would transfer all your points out stat

edit: again sorry but you are at a stage that you dont want to mess around. air france would be my choice, nice trip to, well anywhere

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/american-express-membership-rewards-transfer-times/

Re: AMEX Financial Review Question

Anonymous — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 01:32:12 GMT

Much appreciated. I split them between Delta and FlyingBlue.

This whole thing situation is absurd to the point of seeming farsical. I don't even care at this point if the supervisor saves my cards when I speak to him tomorrow (he won't); I just want someone to give me a reason why this happened.

Re: AMEX Financial Review Question

Shadowfactor — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 01:56:11 GMT

I would try to talk with the supervisor.

If that doesn’t work and you want to try to keep the accounts. I would prepare a letter for the Amex EO office and provide proof of income, hospital stays, bank statements showing higher income.

Unfortunately no one here will be able to give you the exact reason. The only member here that may be able to shed some light is pooka89 as he worked for Amex, but even he would most likely be educated speculating as he doesn’t have access to your account notes/details.

My best guess is that Amex didn’t want to take the risk. You had an account charged off, some rep decided to be nice and reopen and approve a new card but someone higher in the food chain reviewed your accounts as part of a risk review and decided they didn’t like what they saw and probably used any reason to close the accounts.

Re: AMEX Financial Review Question

Anonymous — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 02:12:22 GMT

That's the only thing I can figure as well. But then why approve the Gold card in November with a credit limit that was basically limitless? I didn't even need that level of limit. I was sort of figuring that after this they'd just lower that limit and I wouldn't mind at all. But alas. Hopefully the conversation with him goes much better than with the rep. We shall see what we shall see.

But let's say it doesn't. Should I close the cards myself before AMEX does? Would that be better for my credit?

Re: AMEX Financial Review Question

Shadowfactor — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 02:06:20 GMT

For FICO scoring purposes, there is no difference between a creditor closing them or you closing them.

A manual review might have different results. It would be dependent on the individual who is conducting the manual review.

If the call with the supervisor doesn’t go well. You can appeal to the executive office and plead your case.

Good luck

Re: AMEX Financial Review Question

bourgogne — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 03:00:49 GMT

@Anonymouswrote:
Much appreciated. I split them between Delta and FlyingBlue.

This whole thing situation is absurd to the point of seeming farsical. I don't even care at this point if the supervisor saves my cards when I speak to him tomorrow (he won't); I just want someone to give me a reason why this happened.

that is a really good split, thinking about it I am glad you did it that way. I am af brainwashed, have to keep that in check. so there are good things about amex and bad ones. I am just going to say it, don't mean to offend anyone. its a snap getting to the exec office and a fast call back b a chipper person in the us but overall i find them near worthless. with nfcu, chase or us bank you can talk right to the source, no way with amex. that is why I said transfer out, because I think you would have/will get stuck in a loop. I hope I am wrong. I have been listed as deceased - that's right, dead - for decades. half of the time when I get a card from them it gets rejected, i have to contact the exec office and blah blah blah 1-2 months later I get an approval. they cannot fix it .. its annoying. dont mean to make this about me but there you have it. if you need the exec office info or a contact ping me back. love mostly sp's for cards, the 3x sp cli and decent subs + the mostly good chat but if something goes sideways its like returning last years blender at costco.

Re: AMEX Financial Review Question

NRB525 — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 06:37:53 GMT

OP, thanks for sharing your experience. Glad to hear you recovered from the health problems.

Hopefully the call works out. I would not recommend closing the card. If they close it, so be it, there is no scoring penalty from that. It just doesn’t matter who closed the card. I have had cards closed by lenders and closed some of the cards myself.

If the AMEX Platinum doesn’t last, the Chase CSR makes a decent substitute. There are always options.

Good luck!

Re: AMEX Financial Review Question

Anonymous — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 17:05:36 GMT

I would say transfer your points and forget about AMEX. Conduct financial reviews right after the application is submitted if you're so worried about if someone accurately put their correct income on the form. It's not worth jumping through hoops just to keep them.

Re: AMEX Financial Review Question

Anonymous — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 23:05:58 GMT

@Anonymouswrote:
I would say transfer your points and forget about AMEX. Conduct financial reviews right after the application is submitted if you're so worried about if someone accurately put their correct income on the form. It's not worth jumping through hoops just to keep them.

Close to my thoughts. I guess it really comes down to how much you want/need particular Amex products (as compared to feeling bad/cheated/angry whatever at this change). If the functionality can be easily replaced, I wouldn't bother with any more calls, you have transferred your MRs and just move on.

If the products are important, then obviously keep on trying, but it can be hard. You are almost certainly not going to get a "real" reason: issuers don't want you to know exactly what triggers action, and they don't want to get into a dialogue by giving reasons you can discuss.

But, obviously, you have to decide the gain/pain effort ratio for yourself...

Re: AMEX Financial Review Question

Anonymous — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 23:48:34 GMT

@Anonymouswrote:
@Anonymouswrote:
I would say transfer your points and forget about AMEX. Conduct financial reviews right after the application is submitted if you're so worried about if someone accurately put their correct income on the form. It's not worth jumping through hoops just to keep them.
Close to my thoughts. I guess it really comes down to how much you want/need particular Amex products (as compared to feeling bad/cheated/angry whatever at this change). If the functionality can be easily replaced, I wouldn't bother with any more calls, you have transferred your MRs and just move on.

If the products are important, then obviously keep on trying, but it can be hard. You are almost certainly not going to get a "real" reason: issuers don't want you to know exactly what triggers action, and they don't want to get into a dialogue by giving reasons you can discuss.
But, obviously, you have to decide the gain/pain effort ratio for yourself...

With the introduction of the Navy Federal AMEX, the regular AMEX cards have become less appealing to me. When I can get instant 3x on groceries and gas, 2x on restaurant purchases, and 1x on everything else, plus the member mall with no annual fee and no constant threat of a financial review, I think it's a much better way to go than dealing with AMEX directly.

I think after my "Plan It" for the iPhone X I bought last week is completed within the next six months, I may throw in the towel on direct AMEX cards completely. AMEX cannot match the type of service I receive from Navy Federal and I'd be loyal to Navy 100x over loyal to AMEX who can close my account if I refuse to give them proof of income after they randomly decide to decline my card at a restaurant or somewhere else. AMEX shouldn't expect loyalty with some of their business practices when compared to other issuers, especially when they're a far cry worse compared to what they used to offer, such as superior dispute resolution services.

Re: AMEX Financial Review Question

wasCB14 — Thu, 15 Mar 2018 02:21:03 GMT

@Anonymouswrote:
@Anonymous
With the introduction of the Navy Federal AMEX, the regular AMEX cards have become less appealing to me. When I can get instant 3x on groceries and gas, 2x on restaurant purchases, and 1x on everything else, plus the member mall with no annual fee and no constant threat of a financial review, I think it's a much better way to go than dealing with AMEX directly.

Why go out of your way to have an Amex network card at all? As far as I'm concerned, a non-Centurion Bank Amex network card just means inconveniece due to limited acceptance without the perks and protections to justify it.

I'm not saying NFCU cards are bad. I nearly joined and their customer service is highly rated. But if I got one, I'd stick with a Visa.

Re: AMEX Financial Review Question

BronzeTrader — Thu, 15 Mar 2018 03:40:52 GMT

@Anonymouswrote:
Much appreciated. I split them between Delta and FlyingBlue.

This whole thing situation is absurd to the point of seeming farsical. I don't even care at this point if the supervisor saves my cards when I speak to him tomorrow (he won't); I just want someone to give me a reason why this happened.

You can't say this is absurd. AmEx has its own reason. It does not like to lose any business. But business is business, nothing personal.

In your case, I'll transfer out all your MR points. AmEx is nice to allow you do that. Try to talk them into keeping a credit card with low CL. So you kep the AmEx relationship.

I'll keep the positive energy.

Re: AMEX Financial Review Question

Anonymous — Thu, 15 Mar 2018 10:55:12 GMT

I been through the financial review. You fill out a form . Fax it back to them takes about 1-2 weeks. And they will lower your credit limit.

Re: AMEX Financial Review Question

Anonymous — Thu, 15 Mar 2018 13:16:24 GMT

@wasCB14wrote:
@Anonymouswrote:
@Anonymous
With the introduction of the Navy Federal AMEX, the regular AMEX cards have become less appealing to me. When I can get instant 3x on groceries and gas, 2x on restaurant purchases, and 1x on everything else, plus the member mall with no annual fee and no constant threat of a financial review, I think it's a much better way to go than dealing with AMEX directly.
Why go out of your way to have an Amex network card at all? As far as I'm concerned, a non-Centurion Bank Amex network card just means inconveniece due to limited acceptance without the perks and protections to justify it.

I'm not saying NFCU cards are bad. I nearly joined and their customer service is highly rated. But if I got one, I'd stick with a Visa.

It's a good card. Most of my spending is in gas, groceries, and restaurants. I didn't get it for the AMEX logo, but just the rewards system that compliments the card. I don't have much of an issue with AMEX acceptance where I live... Even USAA Insurance takes AMEX. I also have a NavyFed Cash Rewards Visa to compliment it, but it seldom gets used.

Re: AMEX Financial Review Question (update)

Anonymous — Mon, 19 Mar 2018 19:23:18 GMT

Just to give a full experience, I wanted to update what has happened.

The accounts were cancelled. The call with a supervisor was more crowd control than anything else. He was helpful, provided me with a bit of reasoning for why the Financial Review was ordered and admitted it was just bad timing that the income verification is being based upon old income effected by unfortunate health circumstances. But there is no flexibility on the how and why they verify, nor on reversing the decision.

They are sending me a check for the refund of my membership fees. They told me they are doing this because of the circumstances and the 11 year history, but they might just be telling me this and could do it for everyone (so ask for it if it ever happens to you). Either way, I'm appreciative. All points transferred successfully to airline mile programs, but I cannot stress enough that you should do this as soon as the Financial Review is started if you think there is a chance of cancellation. I have been told three different point scenarios by different reps at AMEX through this experience (30 days to transfer, 48 hours to transfer, no ability to transfer) which just means to me that it's possible your points could just dissapear.

The vexxing part of this for me is that it is very hard to get a straight answer on these matters through the process. I was approved by Chase for a Sapphire Reserve that I applied for the moment I was notified of the AMEX cancellation, so at the end of the day, it's not so bad. It's just been a weird experience, and then...

I called to pay the last statement that came through today on the Gold card because the online/iOS app accounts don't work anymore. After which, I'm notified that AMEX's "Responsible Lending" department has put in a request to speak with me about the decision. OK. I am transferred and they notify me that, a whole 3 days after the cancellation, I have come up for consideration of reinstatement. Would I "like to formally submit that my cards be reinstated?"

I sort of laughed. "So you cancel my cards out of the blue while refusing to accept any additional - I would argue, actually relevant - information from my end on personal finances and then 3 days later offer to reinstate the cards? ... I'm good."

Re: AMEX Financial Review Question (update)

Anonymous — Mon, 19 Mar 2018 21:05:42 GMT

@Anonymouswrote:
I am transferred and they notify me that, a whole 3 days after the cancellation, I have come up for consideration of reinstatement. Would I "like to formally submit that my cards be reinstated?"

I sort of laughed. "So you cancel my cards out of the blue while refusing to accept any additional - I would argue, actually relevant - information from my end on personal finances and then 3 days later offer to reinstate the cards? ... I'm good."

WOW! now that is wild...

Re: AMEX Financial Review Question (update)

Shadowfactor — Mon, 19 Mar 2018 23:27:45 GMT

I would see if they would give you a nice MR bonus for all the hassle. Might be worth a shot.

That is provided you wish to keep your accounts at Amex at all.

It’s a large company, stuff like this happens. Although annoying.
It’s certainly understandable. You had a charged off account, you paid it back, Someone pulled your account and evaluated it for risk. That department/person didn’t like what they saw but someone higher up the food chain decided they wanted your business so they offered you a reinstatement.

I would probably be very irritated by now, as I’m sure you are but Amex did recogize your value as a customer and attempted to fix it although very backwards.

See how much they want your business with asking about a MR bonus.