topic Re: Switching Gears: Chase or Amex after UR changes in Credit Cards

Switching Gears: Chase or Amex after UR changes

Anonymous — Thu, 26 Apr 2018 14:18:31 GMT

I've been gardening with the goal of opening a higher SL CSP card so I can maximize my CFU points and travel spend.

With the rumor that Chase will be nerfing the ability to transfer UR points from the CF and CFU, does it make sense to switch gears and take another look at the Amex cards?

I'm pre-approved for the 50k amex PRG and I could shift toward an Amex ED/PRG strategy.

I've never had a charge card before, can anyone fill me in on the pluses and minuses of going the amex route?

I never carry a balance. Some of the things I liked about the CSP are primary car rental insurance, no foreign transaction fees, 2x points on travel and 1.25 multiplier on CFU points.

Re: Switching Gears: Chase or Amex after UR changes

Anonymous — Thu, 26 Apr 2018 15:17:41 GMT

Well, I'd say there are 3 things to consider here that'd suggest you should stay the course: 1. The CSP has no fee in year 1, so even if they nerf the UR program you won't really be that vested in it. Besides, you can transfer the points from your freedom card(s) as soon as you open the CSP. So even if they nerf it later you already did the transfer. 2. You can always switch to Amex later. 3. As of now these Chase changes are essentially rumors. Not unfounded, but even if they do happen there's no telling when - frankly I'm not even sure of the likelihood of this change happening at all.

That said, the plusses and minuses of Amex: plus obviously for now it doesn't seem like they're gonna limit point transfers. Plus since you pay your balance off every month charge cards are fine for you. Minus categories aren't as diverse and the earn rates aren't and good thus the point earning opportunities are drastically lower than Chase UR overall (at least for now). Minus the PRG gold is essentially competing with the CSP but has a $100 higher AF offset by a $100 travel incidental credit. Minus the Everyday card requires you to put 20 purchases on it per month to get the highest reward rate. Minus Amex's transfer partners and point values typically aren't as versatile or lucrative as Chase UR - for now. They're still good though, great if you compare them to pretty much anything besides Chase UR as it stands.

Re: Switching Gears: Chase or Amex after UR changes

SkyCommander — Thu, 26 Apr 2018 19:57:37 GMT

I did the PRG-ED strategy and found it great. 50k MR + 10k MR but I got the ED a year earlier then applied for PRG once I got a good mailer offer and jumped on it. ED keeps your points from forfeiting and it allowed me to build a profile with Amex without the worry of being locked in with AF. What I don't like is that the points pend for a month after statement cuts if you pay in full or not. The cobranded cards post the same statement. Some of the point transfer partners overlap so you could go to both programs if there is one you can benefit from dual transfers. I've cancelled my PRG but the points I earned on it are safe.

Re: Switching Gears: Chase or Amex after UR changes

UpperNwGuy — Thu, 26 Apr 2018 20:44:13 GMT

@SkyCommander wrote:
I did the PRG-ED strategy and found it great. 50k MR + 10k MR but I got the ED a year earlier then applied for PRG once I got a good mailer offer and jumped on it. ED keeps your points from forfeiting and it allowed me to build a profile with Amex without the worry of being locked in with AF. What I don't like is that the points pend for a month after statement cuts if you pay in full or not. The cobranded cards post the same statement. Some of the point transfer partners overlap so you could go to both programs if there is one you can benefit from dual transfers. I've cancelled my PRG but the points I earned on it are safe.

Does the no-fee ED allow you to transfer points over to airlines, or do you need a fee-based card like the PRG to do that?

Re: Switching Gears: Chase or Amex after UR changes

Anonymous — Thu, 26 Apr 2018 21:09:42 GMT

@UpperNwGuy wrote:
@SkyCommander wrote:
I did the PRG-ED strategy and found it great. 50k MR + 10k MR but I got the ED a year earlier then applied for PRG once I got a good mailer offer and jumped on it. ED keeps your points from forfeiting and it allowed me to build a profile with Amex without the worry of being locked in with AF. What I don't like is that the points pend for a month after statement cuts if you pay in full or not. The cobranded cards post the same statement. Some of the point transfer partners overlap so you could go to both programs if there is one you can benefit from dual transfers. I've cancelled my PRG but the points I earned on it are safe.
Does the no-fee ED allow you to transfer points over to airlines, or do you need a fee-based card like the PRG to do that?

The ED allows partner transfers, which is/was very unusual for a no-AF card. (The other example, Thank You Preferred, has a very limited capability)

Re: Switching Gears: Chase or Amex after UR changes

Anonymous — Thu, 26 Apr 2018 21:43:42 GMT

I have used a PRG and ED for most of my spend over the past couple years. The 50k offer seems to be the one that is more commonly pushed, but there is another offer that occasionally appears, 40k/3k spend year one and 25k/3k spend year two. Even though you have to pay the annual fee during year two, you will get 3 $100, travel credits over the course of your first year which wipe out the AF for year two, and you will get 15k more points than the 50k offer. As Chase hasn't made any official comments about the UR changes, I would hold off on switching ecosystems and see if you can eventually get the 40/25 offer to come up. The ED card currently has a 10k bonus, I would wait for it to go back up to 15k before getting that card as well. Between the two you could end up with 80k MR for one annual fee which is essentially paid for with $300 in airline credits.

Re: Switching Gears: Chase or Amex after UR changes

Noctilum — Thu, 26 Apr 2018 22:19:17 GMT

I would verify that Amex is accepted where the majority of your spend will be taking place. It was the biggest hurdle for me when I was putting most of my spend on my Delta Amex cards.

Re: Switching Gears: Chase or Amex after UR changes

Anonymous — Thu, 26 Apr 2018 23:22:36 GMT

There is some really good discussion here and a lot of great points!

The one thing that scares me about the PRG is that managing it is more complicated than the CSP. The annual travel credits, for example, and the fact that CSP travel category is more expansive.

Plus the ED has an additional AF so you start to feel like it's a chore to make sure you're coming out ahead.

Re: Switching Gears: Chase or Amex after UR changes

wasCB14 — Thu, 26 Apr 2018 23:29:17 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
There is some really good discussion here and a lot of great points!

The one thing that scares me about the PRG is that managing it is more complicated than the CSP. The annual travel credits, for example, and the fact that CSP travel category is more expansive.

Plus the ED has an additional AF so you start to feel like it's a chore to make sure you're coming out ahead.

ED has no AF. EDP does have a $95 AF.

I don't see much point in an ED/PRG or EDP/PRG strategy unless someone is spending hundreds of thousands a year between the cards and needs the higher PRG caps.

Re: Switching Gears: Chase or Amex after UR changes

Shadowfactor — Thu, 26 Apr 2018 23:31:37 GMT

The biggest thing for me about Amex is that they have a much smaller footprint of acceptance overseas.

Since a majority of my spend is overseas its hard to accumulate MR points because I can hardly ever use the card.

Not much will change for me, a majority of my spend goes to USB but I do use my CSP quite a bit as well.

On a side note:

@Anonymous wrote:

Plus the ED has an additional AF so you start to feel like it's a chore to make sure you're coming out ahead.
The ED is free, the EDP has the annual fee. IMO it would be hard to justify having PRG/EDP but PRG/ED could be very profitable

Re: Switching Gears: Chase or Amex after UR changes

Anonymous — Thu, 26 Apr 2018 23:50:53 GMT

I think the only thing not yet addressed is the question of car rental. It’s my understanding that while Chase is primary, with Amex you have to pay a fee.

I’ll echo what others have said about Amex being annoying re: the delay in points and really it’s just clunky. I will say that recently I tried to do something re: MR points on my phone and it was better than online, so maybe things are getting better. Sorry that’s kind of cryptic but I don’t remember WHAT I saw, just that it was better.

Another con with Amex compared to Chases CURRENT rules in that with Chase not only can I transfer from the cards I hold to my CSR, if DH had any UR earning cards they are transferable to me too. We’d been thinking of getting him an FU with the 3x recently announced but now we’ll wait a bit. I’ve got one but it came as a concerted Slate and he’s not an AU at this time. (Also easier to limit him to CSR and Freedom where appropriate).

I did the EDP/PRG thing for a while. I’m happier with the current Chase set up. But if the rumors come to fruition, I’ll consider that set up again. (EDP currently downgraded).

Re: Switching Gears: Chase or Amex after UR changes

Anonymous — Thu, 26 Apr 2018 23:55:10 GMT

@wasCB14 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
There is some really good discussion here and a lot of great points!

The one thing that scares me about the PRG is that managing it is more complicated than the CSP. The annual travel credits, for example, and the fact that CSP travel category is more expansive.

Plus the ED has an additional AF so you start to feel like it's a chore to make sure you're coming out ahead.
ED has no AF. EDP does have a $95 AF.

I don't see much point in an ED/PRG or EDP/PRG strategy unless someone is spending hundreds of thousands a year between the cards and needs the higher PRG caps.

What would you suggest for me? I split spend with my GF and tend to use cash for dining even though I know I'm missing on some rewards by doing so, so I don't run tons of spend through my cards. I probably run 24k a year through my cards, and probably 35% of that fits CSPs travel category. I want to break even on AFs and build points on my travel spend. Currently I travel for pleasure several times a year, but in the future I might travel for work and want to set up for possibly running significant travel spend through one ecosystem in the future. I'm open to suggestions!

Re: Switching Gears: Chase or Amex after UR changes

wasCB14 — Fri, 27 Apr 2018 00:42:47 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@wasCB14 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
There is some really good discussion here and a lot of great points!

The one thing that scares me about the PRG is that managing it is more complicated than the CSP. The annual travel credits, for example, and the fact that CSP travel category is more expansive.

Plus the ED has an additional AF so you start to feel like it's a chore to make sure you're coming out ahead.
ED has no AF. EDP does have a $95 AF.

I don't see much point in an ED/PRG or EDP/PRG strategy unless someone is spending hundreds of thousands a year between the cards and needs the higher PRG caps.
What would you suggest for me? I split spend with my GF and tend to use cash for dining even though I know I'm missing on some rewards by doing so, so I don't run tons of spend through my cards. I probably run 24k a year through my cards, and probably 35% of that fits CSPs travel category. I want to break even on AFs and build points on my travel spend. Currently I travel for pleasure several times a year, but in the future I might travel for work and want to set up for possibly running significant travel spend through one ecosystem in the future. I'm open to suggestions!

If a third of your spend is on travel and your non-travel spend is only about $1300 per month, there's not much to gain from having a complicated long-term rewards setup. Maybe just occasionally pick up a hotel or airline card with a nice bonus and some free checked bags or annual hotel certificate.

What I dislike in particular about ED/PRG and EDP/PRG is that it involves $195 or $290 in annual fees with a lot of complexity and largely overlapping bonus categories. The marginal rewards just aren't that significant. CSP/EDP may be a better combo. If you get CSP, be sure you can meet the spend requirement for the bonus.

I have a Blue Business Plus that gives me 2x MRs on everything up to $50k a year. To me, it looks a little weird that light spenders are drawn to 2x categories on PRG and 1.2x and 2.4x on ED. PRG is really designed for big spenders.

Re: Switching Gears: Chase or Amex after UR changes

Anonymous — Fri, 27 Apr 2018 02:26:33 GMT

@wasCB14 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@wasCB14 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
There is some really good discussion here and a lot of great points!

The one thing that scares me about the PRG is that managing it is more complicated than the CSP. The annual travel credits, for example, and the fact that CSP travel category is more expansive.

Plus the ED has an additional AF so you start to feel like it's a chore to make sure you're coming out ahead.
ED has no AF. EDP does have a $95 AF.

I don't see much point in an ED/PRG or EDP/PRG strategy unless someone is spending hundreds of thousands a year between the cards and needs the higher PRG caps.
What would you suggest for me? I split spend with my GF and tend to use cash for dining even though I know I'm missing on some rewards by doing so, so I don't run tons of spend through my cards. I probably run 24k a year through my cards, and probably 35% of that fits CSPs travel category. I want to break even on AFs and build points on my travel spend. Currently I travel for pleasure several times a year, but in the future I might travel for work and want to set up for possibly running significant travel spend through one ecosystem in the future. I'm open to suggestions!
If a third of your spend is on travel and your non-travel spend is only about $1300 per month, there's not much to gain from having a complicated long-term rewards setup. Maybe just occasionally pick up a hotel or airline card with a nice bonus and some free checked bags or annual hotel certificate.

What I dislike in particular about ED/PRG and EDP/PRG is that it involves $195 or $290 in annual fees with a lot of complexity and largely overlapping bonus categories. The marginal rewards just aren't that significant. CSP/EDP may be a better combo. If you get CSP, be sure you can meet the spend requirement for the bonus.

I have a Blue Business Plus that gives me 2x MRs on everything up to $50k a year. To me, it looks a little weird that light spenders are drawn to 2x categories on PRG and 1.2x and 2.4x on ED. PRG is really designed for big spenders.

More spend isn't a problem but I don't want to bother with complicated card management to score 50 or 100 $ in points .I do want a card that gives a decent return when I book two $900 tickets a few times a year, or when I spend $800 to rent a car for the weekend, etc .

I use Amazon visa or bce for groceries and don't buy gas. If I could qualify for the CSR I would make it a work horse but I don't think I coico get it for another year