topic Re: Leaked(?): New Combined Marriott/SPG Status Tiers in Credit Cards

Leaked(?): New Combined Marriott/SPG Status Tiers

simplynoir — Mon, 09 Apr 2018 23:56:10 GMT

Following is copied directly from churning reddit post found here:

Saw this on FT and haven't seen anyone mention it here yet. Know there was mention on here before of the Marriott and SPG programs merging in August, apparently there's more info:

"Marriott Rewards and Starwood Preferred Guest will be combining into a single program in August. Here's what I know:

All members will earn 10 points per dollar spent
There will be five status tiers:
- Silver status at 10 nights
- Gold status at 25 nights
- Platinum status at 50 nights
- Platinum Premier status at 75 nights
- Ambassador program at 100 nights and $20,000 in spend
Free breakfast (unknown which status level) will be "expanded to 25 brands and resorts."

All credit goes to HHonors OUTSIDER on FT. Original post here: <mod edit: Sorry links to this site aren't allowed on myFICO>

Reason I added the question mark on the subject line is because there hasn't been any confirmation of sorts as of yet. Supposedly on the same FT thread there should be <mod edit: Sorry links to this site aren't allowed on myFICO> about changes to the Marriott Rewards program so hopefully we'll officially see then.

Re: Leaked(?): New Combined Marriott/SPG Status Tiers

K-in-Boston — Mon, 09 Apr 2018 23:56:48 GMT

So, if that works out to be true, essentially the current SPG Platinum will be the new Platinum, and the current Marriott Platinum will be the higher tier. That will satisfy the current SPG Plats who won't suddenly find themselves Gold for being under 75 nights. Hopefully the Platinum continues the same benefits and doesn't get watered down.

The 10 points across the board has been scratching my head, though. Currently only the flagship brands get that across the board and the middle/upper brands (plus Ritz-Carlton) get it on room rates. So that would effectively double the rate for Residence Inn and Towneplace Suites, which I usually avoid for that very reason on revenue stays because there's usually a nearby Marriott (in which I mean the brand, i.e. Marriott Marquis Times Square) nearby for about the same price and I can usually make up for the minimal difference with snacks from the lounge.

Thanks for posting this; now we just need to find out what's going on with the cards and what possibilities exist for those of us who want to earn status through elite night credits and/or spend from our cards because we can't possibly actually stay 50-75 nights a year.

More Rumored SPG/Marriott Information – Award Nights Becoming Dynamic & More

Saleen099 — Tue, 10 Apr 2018 00:56:24 GMT

Earlier today we posted some rumors about the SPG/Marriott integration

Names of status levels above Platinum have not been confirmed. MR wants to differentiate status levels above platinum to ensure proper recognition and avoid confusion among front line staff. Working names are Platinum 50, Platinum 75 and Platinum 100
Instant recognition of status at all levels upon check-in, with arrival points, free HSI, food & beverage vouchers, and choice of other benefits depending on status level
Spend requirement for all levels above silver. If spending level not reached, but nights are, status is at appropriate level based on spend.
Gold and platinum 50 upgrades limited to preferred level, concierge floor, higher floors, corner rooms, or view rooms at resorts. (No suites!)
Guaranteed suite awards (4) per year for platinum 75 and above
Guaranteed lounge access only for levels platinum 75 and above
Free breakfast at resorts for platinum 75 and above
Guaranteed late check-out, 2:00pm for Gold, 3:00pm for Platinum 50, 4:00pm for Platinum 75, Plat 100; resort and conference hotels subject to availability.
Platinum guarantees: 48 room guarantee remains, others guarantees are gone (platinum arrival gift, bed type, room type, lounge access, ultimate reservation guarantee)
Lifetime status changes coming. If status level not obtained, lifetime status identified in system. New Lifetime Level above Platinum will be added in 2019! Benefits reduced to upgrade to preferred floor for LTG; upgrade, late check-out for LTP
Big changes coming to awards! Dynamic award pricing, points required for award night based on hotel room rates at time of booking. No black-out dates, no categories!
Apparently some of the above may end up on the cutting room floor due to IT issues and the deadline. I think the above is surely way to negative to be accurate. I personally don’t have an issue with dynamic award pricing, as long as it’s clear how much points are worth (e.g the Southwest model). What I don’t want to see is dynamic award pricing that is really just hotels still in categories but it gives Marriott the ability to devalue the program without notice (e.g Hilton/Delta model). If the above changes are true, expect significant kick back from both Marriott & SPG loyalty members. Personally I’m filing the above under highly speculative for now, but thought others would appreciate reading it regardless.

https://www.doctorofcredit.com/more-rumored-spg-marriott-information-award-nights-becoming-dynamic-more/

Re: More Rumored SPG/Marriott Information – Award Nights Becoming Dynamic & More

simplynoir — Tue, 10 Apr 2018 01:22:56 GMT

Ugh, "dynamic award pricing."

Re: More Rumored SPG/Marriott Information – Award Nights Becoming Dynamic & More

K-in-Boston — Tue, 10 Apr 2018 01:35:37 GMT

That sounds like revenue-based pricing to me. The points-based system is why I'm loving Marriott currently. Sure, I'll spend 45,000 points a night for a $1200/night room but not for a $200-300/night room! If the value's not there and they water down the current Gold/Plat perks, there's not much incentive for loyalty and I'd probably end up going the Amex Travel portal route. I know these are rumors at this point, but Marriott, there are reasons many people throw spend on the Marriott and Starwood cards!

Re: Leaked(?): New Combined Marriott/SPG Status Tiers

Saleen099 — Tue, 10 Apr 2018 23:17:19 GMT

Re: Leaked(?): New Combined Marriott/SPG Status Tiers

Anonymous — Wed, 11 Apr 2018 02:26:54 GMT

Ugh, I've gotten so spoiled getting Marriott lounge access just for having the Amex Platinum. This ends up being a devaluation for the Amex Platinum AND Marriott if lounge access is restricted to the Platinum 75 level. Perhaps the new "super premium" Amex card will give us access (oh joy, just what I've always wanted, to pay two high annual fees for something I used to be able to get with one...).

I'm also skeptical when it comes to dynamic pricing. I avoid Hilton because their prices are stupidly unpredictable at times (I know there's value to be had, and I believe the new Aspire card is awfully tempting), but perhaps my real problem is with how low each point is worth individually. It makes it difficult to rack up points with credit card spend alone (I don't pay for hotel stays with cash enough to get any points to speak of from stays). However, Delta is my airline of choice, but I like a lot of things about their points program (no expiration and it's easier to accumulate Delta Skymiles than, say, AAdvantage miles). That being said, every time I try to pick out a flight, I cringe while I wait to see how many miles it'll be. Sometimes I'm pleasantly surprised, and sometimes I am most definitely not. I'm definitely going to miss the predictability that came with the Marriott pricing structure. But here's hoping that certain redemptions will surprise us.

And any bets on how long it'll be before Hyatt announces it's going revenue-based? I think at that point I'm just going to throw all of my hotel co-branded cards into a bonfire.

Re: Leaked(?): New Combined Marriott/SPG Status Tiers

K-in-Boston — Wed, 11 Apr 2018 02:42:48 GMT

@Anonymous exactly. I think my moaning about these rumors is spread out through at least 3 threads at this point, but a devaluation of Marriott Gold and revenue based redemptions has me really concerned. I mean the entire way I pay for everything is based on this gravy train of Marriott Gold and 3:1 transfers. And free breakfast alone has more than made up for my Platinum + AU fees the past couple of years.

Family getaways and vacations have to revolve around school schedules. We can’t just take a vacation in the middle of October. It’s February vacation week, Passover/Spring Break, Summer or the holidays. Period. Those are the times when I have been getting insane 7-8 cents per point hotel rooms. If this gets tied to a 0.7 to 1.0 cent revenue base, this completely changes everything and while I can still get great value for airfare from rewards there isn’t much of an option for hotels other than going the “whoever gives me the best value” route through a traveler portal like Amex or hotels.com. And with the abysmal earning rate that the Chase Marriott cards have, there’s not even much room to rack up points - really the only reason I don’t have the R-C card.

Re: Leaked(?): New Combined Marriott/SPG Status Tiers

red259 — Wed, 11 Apr 2018 02:42:52 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Ugh, I've gotten so spoiled getting Marriott lounge access just for having the Amex Platinum. This ends up being a devaluation for the Amex Platinum AND Marriott if lounge access is restricted to the Platinum 75 level. Perhaps the new "super premium" Amex card will give us access (oh joy, just what I've always wanted, to pay two high annual fees for something I used to be able to get with one...).

I'm also skeptical when it comes to dynamic pricing. I avoid Hilton because their prices are stupidly unpredictable at times (I know there's value to be had, and I believe the new Aspire card is awfully tempting), but perhaps my real problem is with how low each point is worth individually. It makes it difficult to rack up points with credit card spend alone (I don't pay for hotel stays with cash enough to get any points to speak of from stays). However, Delta is my airline of choice, but I like a lot of things about their points program (no expiration and it's easier to accumulate Delta Skymiles than, say, AAdvantage miles). That being said, every time I try to pick out a flight, I cringe while I wait to see how many miles it'll be. Sometimes I'm pleasantly surprised, and sometimes I am most definitely not. I'm definitely going to miss the predictability that came with the Marriott pricing structure. But here's hoping that certain redemptions will surprise us.

And any bets on how long it'll be before Hyatt announces it's going revenue-based? I think at that point I'm just going to throw all of my hotel co-branded cards into a bonfire.

Yea hotel cards are becoming less and less useful. I think its absurd they are making these changes on short notice like this. I have trips coming up. At least give us the rest of 2018, as it is I have a trip planned late august and if my status becomes worthless I will probably ditch marriott as my hotel provider on that trip. No incentive to stay there if loyalty doesn't matter. I can go to Hilton with my gold status or just stay with hyatt on paid stays.

Re: Leaked(?): New Combined Marriott/SPG Status Tiers

red259 — Wed, 11 Apr 2018 02:48:16 GMT

@K-in-Boston wrote:
@Anonymousexactly. I think my moaning about these rumors is spread out through at least 3 threads at this point, but a devaluation of Marriott Gold and revenue based redemptions has me really concerned. I mean the entire way I pay for everything is based on this gravy train of Marriott Gold and 3:1 transfers. And free breakfast alone has more than made up for my Platinum + AU fees the past couple of years.

Family getaways and vacations have to revolve around school schedules. We can’t just take a vacation in the middle of October. It’s February vacation week, Passover/Spring Break, Summer or the holidays. Period. Those are the times when I have been getting insane 7-8 cents per point hotel rooms. If this gets tied to a 0.7 to 1.0 cent revenue base, this completely changes everything and while I can still get great value for airfare from rewards there isn’t much of an option for hotels other than going the “whoever gives me the best value” route through a traveler portal like Amex or hotels.com. And with the abysmal earning rate that the Chase Marriott cards have, there’s not even much room to rack up points - really the only reason I don’t have the R-C card.

yea if the points are based strictly on revenue I don't see the point anymore. I had a good run with marriott over the last 4 or 5 years, but maybe its time to move on.

Re: Leaked(?): New Combined Marriott/SPG Status Tiers

K-in-Boston — Wed, 11 Apr 2018 02:55:21 GMT

@red259 wrote:
@K-in-Boston wrote:
@Anonymousexactly. I think my moaning about these rumors is spread out through at least 3 threads at this point, but a devaluation of Marriott Gold and revenue based redemptions has me really concerned. I mean the entire way I pay for everything is based on this gravy train of Marriott Gold and 3:1 transfers. And free breakfast alone has more than made up for my Platinum + AU fees the past couple of years.

Family getaways and vacations have to revolve around school schedules. We can’t just take a vacation in the middle of October. It’s February vacation week, Passover/Spring Break, Summer or the holidays. Period. Those are the times when I have been getting insane 7-8 cents per point hotel rooms. If this gets tied to a 0.7 to 1.0 cent revenue base, this completely changes everything and while I can still get great value for airfare from rewards there isn’t much of an option for hotels other than going the “whoever gives me the best value” route through a traveler portal like Amex or hotels.com. And with the abysmal earning rate that the Chase Marriott cards have, there’s not even much room to rack up points - really the only reason I don’t have the R-C card.
yea if the points are based strictly on revenue I don't see the point anymore. I had a good run with marriott over the last 4 or 5 years, but maybe its time to move on.

But to where? That’s the thing that is worrying me. Almost certainly not Hilton. Hyatt is with Chase and I don’t see me getting anything great with them. IHG same scenario, plus not a lot of good options where I travel. Best Western is a joke in the US/Canada (but great in Europe). Wyndham has a good program but my profile and that of DW’s don’t jive with Barclaycard.

Re: Leaked(?): New Combined Marriott/SPG Status Tiers

red259 — Wed, 11 Apr 2018 03:39:07 GMT

@K-in-Boston wrote:
@red259 wrote:
@K-in-Boston wrote:
@Anonymousexactly. I think my moaning about these rumors is spread out through at least 3 threads at this point, but a devaluation of Marriott Gold and revenue based redemptions has me really concerned. I mean the entire way I pay for everything is based on this gravy train of Marriott Gold and 3:1 transfers. And free breakfast alone has more than made up for my Platinum + AU fees the past couple of years.

Family getaways and vacations have to revolve around school schedules. We can’t just take a vacation in the middle of October. It’s February vacation week, Passover/Spring Break, Summer or the holidays. Period. Those are the times when I have been getting insane 7-8 cents per point hotel rooms. If this gets tied to a 0.7 to 1.0 cent revenue base, this completely changes everything and while I can still get great value for airfare from rewards there isn’t much of an option for hotels other than going the “whoever gives me the best value” route through a traveler portal like Amex or hotels.com. And with the abysmal earning rate that the Chase Marriott cards have, there’s not even much room to rack up points - really the only reason I don’t have the R-C card.
yea if the points are based strictly on revenue I don't see the point anymore. I had a good run with marriott over the last 4 or 5 years, but maybe its time to move on.
But to where? That’s the thing that is worrying me. Almost certainly not Hilton. Hyatt is with Chase and I don’t see me getting anything great with them. IHG same scenario, plus not a lot of good options where I travel. Best Western is a joke in the US/Canada (but great in Europe). Wyndham has a good program but my profile and that of DW’s don’t jive with Barclaycard.

Depends on your needs. Most of my status going forward is going to be credit card based. I will go to the properties that give me a chance at upgrades and/or lounge access. If there is no chance of those things I am going to go with the best value I can find. I tend to have a lot of hyatt stays because I use the vast majority of my Chase URs to redeem hyatt stays, because I usually have airfare covered by other point programs. If I was paying like 50-60 stays a year then it becomes a real question. The point value with hilton isn't very good. Marriott may be gutting their program for people at that level. If I had that number of stays I probably would opt for hyatt if it was feasible, but it would work a lot better if you had access to chase cards.

Re: Leaked(?): New Combined Marriott/SPG Status Tiers

Anonymous — Wed, 11 Apr 2018 03:46:11 GMT

If this keeps up the Cap1 Venture 10X "miles" at Hotels.com could be very competitive.

Re: Leaked(?): New Combined Marriott/SPG Status Tiers

iced — Wed, 11 Apr 2018 05:09:37 GMT

@K-in-Boston wrote:
@red259
But to where? That’s the thing that is worrying me. Almost certainly not Hilton. Hyatt is with Chase and I don’t see me getting anything great with them. IHG same scenario, plus not a lot of good options where I travel. Best Western is a joke in the US/Canada (but great in Europe). Wyndham has a good program but my profile and that of DW’s don’t jive with Barclaycard.

Revenue-based is the new normal, just as the major US airlines had to move to revenue-based mileage earning a few years back. As you pointed out earlier, metaphorically bending the hotels over with peak-season reservations at standard point based on category redemptions isn't a money maker and often gets abused. I myself only tend to use points on things like holiday or special event nights when the cash rate for the room triples, so nobody can really be surprised that the good times must eventually come to an end.

Eventually, all of the worthwhile programs will be revenue-based, so if that's driving someone's decision as to which program to be in, they're only delaying the inevitable.

Similar reasons are going to likely influence the downgrading of benefits for the lower/mid tiers, such as the 50-night one. When simply signing up for a card and paying an AF gave someone lounge access and all the other benefits of the current Gold/50 night tier, the inevitable conclusion is going to be a bloat of people at that tier and the eventual devaluation of that tier to compensate for the bloat. The losers in that one are the people who got Gold the hard way and now get to watch that fall by the wayside. The frequent-stayers (100 and 75 nights) will likely see a better experience since the upgrades will be a little easier and the lounges a little less crowded...unless they screw that up and let someone have 75/100 night status via a credit card.

Re: Leaked(?): New Combined Marriott/SPG Status Tiers

ibmrad7 — Wed, 11 Apr 2018 11:30:48 GMT

These updates are bad for the average consumer but for people like me, who travel for work, it's a welcome change. Lately, these lounges have been over-crowded with the diluted status matches. I hope the new "Ambassador" level brings a better chance at scoring upgrades.

Re: Leaked(?): New Combined Marriott/SPG Status Tiers

K-in-Boston — Wed, 11 Apr 2018 14:24:31 GMT

I'm curious to know the breakdown of the people in the overcrowded lounges (I've actually rarely encountered this the past 2 years or so). While certainly there are people like me who would normally only stay enough to qualify for Silver (or Gold on a status challenge) getting the same benefits as the constant traveler (in fairness, I not only have gold through Amex Plat but also through SPG spend and could easily get it with a status challenge from # of nights without them albeit only for a year or so), keep in mind that almost every Marriott booking I've done at a location with a lounge has had options (a few times they have actually been cheaper than the regular room rates) for Concierge Level or "includes free breakfast buffet" that show to the general public. I've seen a lot of people entering the lounges without the grey "Welcome Elite Member" room keys, so the overcrowding seems to be at least partially to blame for including elite perks with the room rate.

Re: Leaked(?): New Combined Marriott/SPG Status Tiers

adelphi_sky — Wed, 11 Apr 2018 21:21:21 GMT

@K-in-Boston wrote:
I'm curious to know the breakdown of the people in the overcrowded lounges (I've actually rarely encountered this the past 2 years or so). While certainly there are people like me who would normally only stay enough to qualify for Silver (or Gold on a status challenge) getting the same benefits as the constant traveler (in fairness, I not only have gold through Amex Plat but also through SPG spend and could easily get it with a status challenge from # of nights without them albeit only for a year or so), keep in mind that almost every Marriott booking I've done at a location with a lounge has had options (a few times they have actually been cheaper than the regular room rates) for Concierge Level or "includes free breakfast buffet" that show to the general public. I've seen a lot of people entering the lounges without the grey "Welcome Elite Member" room keys, so the overcrowding seems to be at least partially to blame for including elite perks with the room rate.

Yes. Some hotels offer Club-Level packages to non-members. That's how a lounge can get crowded. And sometimes the package is only $25 more per night. So, I can see how some people can go for the club-level and not really be Elite members.

As for myself, I have the Marriott card for the annual free night. But any devaluation of Gold status will push the value of holding the card even further. I'm hoping Marriott makes a new deal with Amex that will give Amex Platinum cardholders Platinum-level status. I mean, after all, the AF for the Amex Platinum went up $100. With all these changes, the consumer keeps getting the losing end - save for the awesome 100k points from Chase Sapphire Reserve almost two years ago.

I love IHG. THey added Kimpton Hotels to their portfolio. So, if you don't have a standard IHG hotel in the area, check for Kimptons. They are NICE hotels with impeccable customer service. Call them the poor man's Ritz Carlton. A few are hit-or-miss, but they have good consistency across the brand. As an IHG cardholder, you get Platinum level status. That adds up to some nice perks for Kimpton.

Re: Leaked(?): New Combined Marriott/SPG Status Tiers

Anonymous — Thu, 12 Apr 2018 01:00:46 GMT

I guess I'll be the only one here that actually look forward to this as long as there is a AMEX Marriott card that say costs 350 to 450 for top status. I use to buy back my platinum status but this year got the boot down to gold.

I have the Ritz Carlton card and like the air credit but I'd easily switch to a top tier Marriott card if it has as good of benefits as the AMEX Hilton does (I understand that Hilton points suck but everything else would be nice)

When we travel to Europe every other year and travel here in the states it is a God send that we get free breakfast and at Ritz properties we always use our club upgrade, I'll miss those the most, Maybe just maybe the Ritz card could be the upgraded version however by the sound of it my HEAVY Ritz card will go the way of the dodo bird.

Re: Leaked(?): New Combined Marriott/SPG Status Tiers

red259 — Thu, 12 Apr 2018 01:11:54 GMT

@adelphi_sky wrote:
@K-in-Boston wrote:
I'm curious to know the breakdown of the people in the overcrowded lounges (I've actually rarely encountered this the past 2 years or so). While certainly there are people like me who would normally only stay enough to qualify for Silver (or Gold on a status challenge) getting the same benefits as the constant traveler (in fairness, I not only have gold through Amex Plat but also through SPG spend and could easily get it with a status challenge from # of nights without them albeit only for a year or so), keep in mind that almost every Marriott booking I've done at a location with a lounge has had options (a few times they have actually been cheaper than the regular room rates) for Concierge Level or "includes free breakfast buffet" that show to the general public. I've seen a lot of people entering the lounges without the grey "Welcome Elite Member" room keys, so the overcrowding seems to be at least partially to blame for including elite perks with the room rate.
Yes. Some hotels offer Club-Level packages to non-members. That's how a lounge can get crowded. And sometimes the package is only $25 more per night. So, I can see how some people can go for the club-level and not really be Elite members.

As for myself, I have the Marriott card for the annual free night. But any devaluation of Gold status will push the value of holding the card even further. I'm hoping Marriott makes a new deal with Amex that will give Amex Platinum cardholders Platinum-level status. I mean, after all, the AF for the Amex Platinum went up $100. With all these changes, the consumer keeps getting the losing end - save for the awesome 100k points from Chase Sapphire Reserve almost two years ago.

I love IHG. THey added Kimpton Hotels to their portfolio. So, if you don't have a standard IHG hotel in the area, check for Kimptons. They are NICE hotels with impeccable customer service. Call them the poor man's Ritz Carlton. A few are hit-or-miss, but they have good consistency across the brand. As an IHG cardholder, you get Platinum level status. That adds up to some nice perks for Kimpton.

Not really holding my breath for this, but Amex did offer that with the plat I would keep the card.

Re: Leaked(?): New Combined Marriott/SPG Status Tiers

K-in-Boston — Fri, 13 Apr 2018 22:24:27 GMT

Don’t open. Dead inside.