topic Re: Chase CSP - PC/Downgrade? in Credit Cards

Chase CSP - PC/Downgrade?

Anonymous — Thu, 14 Jun 2018 22:11:27 GMT

I'm working on playing musical cards between the Chase trifecta that my wife and I currently have.

We acquired the following cards in the following order.

Myself: Chase Freedom 03/17

Wife: Chase Freedom Unlimited 12/17

Wife: Chase Sapphire Preferred 04/18

We've recently decided to migrate from the CSP to the CSR.

Honestly, the reason we did it the way we had, was due to me not being able to get approved for a Sapphire card due to 5/24 and my wife had "YourOffers" for Freedom, Slate, and CSP. I could have PC'd to the CSP and foregone the bonus, but figured it didn't hurt to try having her app for it and see if it worked. She had limited credit at the time, so it was a total tossup.

So, my Freedom was a 6,400 CL. I figured I'd get an Amazon card and move some of the limit over to my Freedom to PC to CSR (as we didn't expect her to get approved for a large enough limit, if any at all, to increase her $5,100 CSP to 10k). I was approved for $6,100 SL today on Chase Amazon and moved $3,600 to my Freedom and PCd to CSR.

Our statement date happened to be today, and we just received the CSP SUB on her account today (hadn't thought that part through prior to starting this process of musical PCs). She sent an SM asking them if she had any PC offers for her CSP, and they said that they want her to callchase. in so that they can make sure they "receive all needed information". Could she face AA for PCing the day of statement cut with SUB?? Essentially, the end-goal is to get her CSP into a Freedom.

Re: Chase CSP - PC/Downgrade?

simplynoir — Thu, 14 Jun 2018 22:55:49 GMT

No and yes. No because of the CARD Act I don't think you can change the terms of the card for a year short of cancellation (someone correct me if I'm wrong). But possibly yes they could take possible AA on her account because of how new her card is especially since you want to PC it just after receiving the SUB; even if you plead your case on why you're doing it and it is allowed they might just clawback the SUB from her account or worse close out both her cards completely with no recourse. Chase hasn't been playing around with churning behavior and this is basically saying "look at me" despite good intentions. I would just hold the card til the renewal comes up and PC the card then to the Freedom to avoid any issues with Chase.

Re: Chase CSP - PC/Downgrade?

Anonymous — Fri, 15 Jun 2018 00:08:21 GMT

I hope you post after speaking with Chase. tbh, after reading three of your Chase threads... I'd be afraid of both of you getting AA. Having read how strict Chase is, I was afraid of getting AA, losing CFU when I applied for CSP & AmazonPrime the same day.

Good luck.

Re: Chase CSP - PC/Downgrade?

Anonymous — Fri, 15 Jun 2018 00:54:44 GMT

I'll keep this thread updated with end results.

I understand that they have an issue with churning, but at the same time... her overall profile is not indicative of a churner. This is her first instance on a thin file. After typing this, I suppose I could see that looking as bad or worse though...

As far as revolving accounts (credit/charge cards), her profile is as follows:

Discover IT: 06/16

Chase Freedom Unlimited: 12/17

Chase Sapphire Preferred: 04/18

She is AU on the following of my cards (however, a manual review of CBR would state "Authorized User" next to these accounts, so I don't see this being an issue against her in that scenario).

Discover IT: 02/16

CapOne QS: 06/16

Chase Freedom (now CSR): 03/17

AmEx EDP: 12/17

PenFed PCR: 03/18

I know they won't see the account type, and only the creditor, I just listed it as a whole out of habit.

Am I wrong in thinking that her profile may help her case? Her FICOs are all 750-765. All of those are still open. Also, she is not requesting to close the card, just to get another card to reuse... I suppose I'm kind of playing "devil's advcate" with us being the devil in this scenario, but primarily just thinking outloud (so to speak). Any input on this last bit of info?

Also... they are about to eat me for a $525 fee on the Reserve (450 + 75 au fee). So, monetarily, I'd think that'd be a "wash" in terms of the SUB/fee comparison. Almost like I'm paying them back for that SUB, as they initially gave it to us fee-free for that first year, and instead they would get that back in fees.

I could honestly be trying too hard to rationalize this, and should likely take a step back for a few months to let everything settle before proceeding....

Re: Chase CSP - PC/Downgrade?

simplynoir — Fri, 15 Jun 2018 01:34:37 GMT

Apparently I was being delicate in my post so I'll state it more clearer: don't do it. There is no rush in PCing the card and the Freedom isn't going anywhere in the meantime. If I was Chase and you called to tell me RIGHT AFTER GETTING THE SUB on your most recent statement you don't want the card anymore and wish/insist to PC I would take a serious look at her account and consider AA. And Chase does care about AU accounts because of their 5/24 rule so get rid of that line of thinking; they don't care about your scores/history if you exhibit this type of "behavior" asking this. Just check out the shutdown Chase threads in the churning reddit if you don't believe me.

What is the rush anyways that it can't wait til next April?

Re: Chase CSP - PC/Downgrade?

K-in-Boston — Fri, 15 Jun 2018 01:24:11 GMT

I have to agree with the tough love stance on this. The CARD Act doesn't prevent you from lowering an AF, but Chase does not like people PCing the CSP/CSR, especially in the first year! That said, I believe they will allow it but I wouldn't risk it.

Re: Chase CSP - PC/Downgrade?

Anonymous — Fri, 15 Jun 2018 01:44:58 GMT

Thanks for the info. Sincerely.

We’ll back down on the PC of the CSP. I just wanted to make sure I’d clarified all the variables here before totally backing out of it.

However, if we are having to bite the bullet and not have a FU or F, we’d rather do without the FU and put the non-cat (1.5) spend on a F/CSP/CSR (and only forego 0.5/dollar) instead of putting cat-related spend on an FU and foregoing the 3.5/dollar on that perspective cat spend for a year.

Would it also be ill-advised to check into PC her FU into basic F at this point, due to the dust that we’ve stirred up already...?

Otherwise my other perspective option would be to call back and ask for PC back to Freedom on my CSR before I get hit with that $525 fee. As when we calculated affordability of that fee, sacrificing the freedom 5x cat spend for a year pretty much wipes out any profitability on that at this point..... (I know I did this to myself, just wondering what would happen if I were to ask to PC back to freedom)

Re: Chase CSP - PC/Downgrade?

K-in-Boston — Fri, 15 Jun 2018 01:47:48 GMT

The 0.5 points may or may not even really matter in the long run. I'm not sure how your spend falls, but I do much better on the 2 points for non-Amex travel/restaurant spend and 1 point for other non-Amex spend on my CSP than I would by using my CFU across the board. With a planned PC to CSR I should be doing even better. There shouldn't be any issues whatsoever with PCing from Freedom to CFU or vice versa.

Edit: Also don't forget that with the travel credit, your real AF is much, much lower.

Re: Chase CSP - PC/Downgrade?

UpperNwGuy — Fri, 15 Jun 2018 01:53:11 GMT

My recommendation is that you do nothing for the time being. Use the cards you have for a while. Don't apply for any more new ones. Don't try to product change any of your current cards. If you call or write Chase requesting a change, you will get "eyes on your account," and you don't want that in your current situation.

Re: Chase CSP - PC/Downgrade?

Anonymous — Fri, 15 Jun 2018 01:55:47 GMT

I had calculated the AF with the travel credit initially.

1) I don’t mind foregoing the marginal bit of UR by having CF/CSR and an obsolete CSP.

2) However, I feel like I’d be missing out on a fairly significsnt chunk of UR if we have to keep CFU/CSR and an obsolete CSP. As we have a fair amount of (organic) cat spend. We do not MS.

3) However, if it’s I’ll-advised to try asking them to PC her FU to an F at this point, due to her accounts possibly being flagged for the initial request.... then I’d like to see about downgrading my CSR back to the CF to ride out the trifecta with her CSP for a year or longer. As CFU/CSR combo would make us come out quite negative in net profit/expense due to missing out on the 5x cat UR.

Those are the 3 scenarios I’m running through my mind right now. Any insight (or better options that I may be missing)?

I’m willing to lay out our monthly spend....

Honestly cash back is probably our best bet, however the points are nice because it forces us to save/accumulate our rewards and not being able to easily access them for miscellaneous things.

Re: Chase CSP - PC/Downgrade?

simplynoir — Fri, 15 Jun 2018 02:00:22 GMT

@K-in-Boston wrote:
The 0.5 points may or may not even really matter in the long run. I'm not sure how your spend falls, but I do much better on the 2 points for non-Amex travel/restaurant spend and 1 point for other non-Amex spend on my CSP than I would by using my CFU across the board. With a planned PC to CSR I should be doing even better. There shouldn't be any issues whatsoever with PCing from Freedom to CFU or vice versa.

Edit: Also don't forget that with the travel credit, your real AF is much, much lower.

+1 If you really want to they shouldn't have any issues with this. The card is old enough and with no AF to worry about they should be able to process your request. Leave the CSP be for the time being til next year.

Re: Chase CSP - PC/Downgrade?

Anonymous — Fri, 15 Jun 2018 02:04:45 GMT

@UpperNwGuy wrote:
My recommendation is that you do nothing for the time being. Use the cards you have for a while. Don't apply for any more new ones. Don't try to product change any of your current cards. If you call or write Chase requesting a change, you will get "eyes on your account," and you don't want that in your current situation.

My only issue with that, is because of the situation that I've put us in by jumping the gun on PCing my CF to CSR. Because now we are looking at $525 in af this year, and $615 next year. For extremely marginal earn rates through this year... I suppose I'd put myself in quite the pickle.

I guess asking to PC the CSR back to basic CF on my account before getting hit with that $525 fee is also a no-go?

At that point, I'd be worried about PCing and then getting hit retroactively with the AF anyways, even though I didn't have the card long enough to utilize any of the benefits... perhaps simply closing is a better bet? Or am I simply going to get that fee no matter what I do and just simply have to suck it up...?

Re: Chase CSP - PC/Downgrade?

Anonymous — Fri, 15 Jun 2018 02:08:43 GMT

@simplynoir wrote:
@K-in-Boston wrote:
The 0.5 points may or may not even really matter in the long run. I'm not sure how your spend falls, but I do much better on the 2 points for non-Amex travel/restaurant spend and 1 point for other non-Amex spend on my CSP than I would by using my CFU across the board. With a planned PC to CSR I should be doing even better. There shouldn't be any issues whatsoever with PCing from Freedom to CFU or vice versa.

Edit: Also don't forget that with the travel credit, your real AF is much, much lower.
+1 If you really want to they shouldn't have any issues with this. The card is old enough and with no AF to worry about they should be able to process your request. Leave the CSP be for the time being til next year.

Totally fine with this.

Her CFU was opened 12/17 (6 months ago).

AF wouldn't be raised. But I just assume that her whole account (CFU and CSP) would currently be under scrutiny. Would they only be concerned about the CSP and not care about her CFU..?

The only Chase card that we have that's over a year old is *my* Freedom, which I already PC'd to CSR early this afternoon.

Re: Chase CSP - PC/Downgrade?

HeavenOhio — Fri, 15 Jun 2018 13:47:44 GMT

@Anonymous, I think the moves you made on your own cards over the past couple of days are perfectly fine. But I'm not comfortable with the idea of messing around with the wife's CSP at this time. It's too new, and it recently earned a sign-up bonus.

I don't think you're really in a pickle. We're talking a $90 annual fee that's already been offset by the sign-up bonus. Do the PC when a year is up.

Re: Chase CSP - PC/Downgrade?

Anonymous — Fri, 15 Jun 2018 21:29:44 GMT

@HeavenOhio wrote:
@Anonymous, I think the moves you made on your own cards over the past couple of days are perfectly fine. But I'm not comfortable with the idea of messing around with the wife's CSP at this time. It's too new, and it recently earned a sign-up bonus.

I don't think you're really in a pickle. We're talking a $90 annual fee that's already been offset by the sign-up bonus. Do the PC when a year is up.

I will wait until the following year to reevaluate and look into doing this again when there is less scrutiny around it.

I did call in and ask them to reverse my CSR back to the Freedom, so that we do not have two of the Sapphire cards and can retain the value of the 5% rotating categories.

I'm hoping everything is fine at this point, as we intend to leave it alone for the time being. I'll update this thread if we end up facing AA of any sort, as it would likely be related to this string of events if we happen to face anything.