topic Re: A worthwhile app? (First Tech / PIN related) in Credit Cards

A worthwhile app? (First Tech / PIN related)

wasCB14 — Sat, 16 Jun 2018 20:57:31 GMT

I already have, among other cards:

Sapphire Reserve (main travel card)

No-AF Arrival (online PIN)

Schwab debit (no FTF)

A phone that I will soon upgrade to one able to make mobile payments. (I know I’m slow to adapt with this.)

I’m thinking of applying for a First Tech FCU card (Choice Rewards - the best with no AF). I applied a year ago and was initially approved (and on great terms) but they later rejected my membership because my credit report had not yet picked up my then-new address. I have another week or so in my year’s membership with the Computer History Museum and figured I’d apply again before I likely change addresses again.

A question for people who travel frequently internationally: Is it still very useful to have a proper primary PIN card? Or, with the cards listed above, would the marginal merchant acceptance of a First Tech card be limited? I know machines are now supposed to take Signature as well as PIN cards, but I imagine that's taking effect slowly. I’ve not used debit in ages, but it might suffice in a pinch. I hear other terminals will just reject anything from a foreign issuer. And, while I travel frequently in the US and Canada, I haven’t been overseas in non-touristy areas for a few years.

Other thoughts?

I'm inclined to get a FTFCU card just to have it ready for when I do travel again outside North America...but wonder if it will end up a low-value app if I just end up using my phone or debit card a lot...or if Chase or Citi suddenly add it as an option.

Re: A worthwhile app? (First Tech / PIN related)

bz386 — Sat, 16 Jun 2018 22:40:48 GMT

Don’t bother. I am traveling internationally at least twice per year. I have exactly the same cards as you. The only time my CSR didn’t work was at a train station in Copenhagen. I used the no-AF Arrival instead, which worked, because it has both offline and online PIN.

Applying for an otherwise useless CU card would be a waste of a hard pull and a pointless ding to your credit score.

Re: A worthwhile app? (First Tech / PIN related)

wasCB14 — Sun, 17 Jun 2018 00:00:48 GMT

@bz386 wrote:
Don’t bother. I am traveling internationally at least twice per year. I have exactly the same cards as you. The only time my CSR didn’t work was at a train station in Copenhagen. I used the no-AF Arrival instead, which worked, because it has both offline and online PIN.

Applying for an otherwise useless CU card would be a waste of a hard pull and a pointless ding to your credit score.

Last I read, Arrival only had online PIN. I can change the PIN online, after all, without having my card in any terminal. My existing cards might be enough, though.

And the card would otherwise be pretty useless. I'd get the $200 bonus for $3k minimum spend, but it's not exactly an amazing offer.

Re: A worthwhile app? (First Tech / PIN related)

bz386 — Sat, 16 Jun 2018 23:46:34 GMT

Arrival has offline PIN. You change the PIN online and the next time you use it at an online terminal, the new PIN will automatically be programmed into the chip.

Re: A worthwhile app? (First Tech / PIN related)

wasCB14 — Sat, 16 Jun 2018 23:55:06 GMT

@bz386 wrote:
Arrival has offline PIN. You change the PIN online and the next time you use it at an online terminal, the new PIN will automatically be programmed into the chip.

Ahh, yes. I forgot about that part. Use the online PIN once, then afterwards it works as offline PIN...though it will default to signature first.

Well, thanks for helping me steer clear of a low-value app!

Re: A worthwhile app? (First Tech / PIN related)

UpperNwGuy — Sun, 17 Jun 2018 00:08:12 GMT

I have the UNFCU Azure card which is almost identical to the First Tech card. The chip is set to "PIN priority" so it doesn't matter if you are online or offline, it always requires you to key in your PIN. I use it all the time in Europe at gift shops, restaurants, tourist attractions, subway ticket machines, train ticket machines, etc. I only use my Chase Sapphire Reserve to pay for hotels. I love the look of surprise when the waiter discovers that my American card works just like the European cards. I say, go for it!

Re: A worthwhile app? (First Tech / PIN related)

CreditCuriosity — Sun, 17 Jun 2018 00:21:55 GMT

Not sure how many cards you have picked up since you last applied for them but they are ultra conservative on how many cards one has opened.. I believe you should be fine for seeing your posts here and your sig, but alot of people get shut down for to many recent apps with them or too much available credit meaning you have more credit then you make in a given year.. Spoke with one of their UW and tried to recon she wanted me to give up about 150k in credit to be considered and that just wasn't going to happen. Their money so they make the rules

Re: A worthwhile app? (First Tech / PIN related)

wasCB14 — Sun, 17 Jun 2018 00:22:28 GMT

@UpperNwGuy wrote:
I have the UNFCU Azure card which is almost identical to the First Tech card. The chip is set to "PIN priority" so it doesn't matter if you are online or offline, it always requires you to key in your PIN. I use it all the time in Europe at gift shops, restaurants, tourist attractions, subway ticket machines, train ticket machines, etc. I only use my Chase Sapphire Reserve to pay for hotels. I love the look of surprise when the waiter discovers that my American card works just like the European cards. I say, go for it!

True...there is something to be said for convenience...

I'll think it over for 24 or 48 hours.

Re: A worthwhile app? (First Tech / PIN related)

wasCB14 — Sun, 17 Jun 2018 00:32:39 GMT

@CreditCuriosity wrote:
Not sure how many cards you have picked up since you last applied for them but they are ultra conservative on how many cards one has opened.. I believe you should be fine for seeing your posts here and your sig, but alot of people get shut down for to many recent apps with them or too much available credit meaning you have more credit then you make in a given year.. Spoke with one of their UW and tried to recon she wanted me to give up about 150k in credit to be considered and that just wasn't going to happen. Their money so they make the rules

My total reporting CL is around 130% of my income. Apart from my non-reporting BBP, I have only opened 1 card since then.

Do they care about stock portfolios? I have several times my income in stocks with low or no dividends.

Re: A worthwhile app? (First Tech / PIN related)

CreditCuriosity — Sun, 17 Jun 2018 00:44:58 GMT

@wasCB14 wrote:
@CreditCuriosity wrote:
Not sure how many cards you have picked up since you last applied for them but they are ultra conservative on how many cards one has opened.. I believe you should be fine for seeing your posts here and your sig, but alot of people get shut down for to many recent apps with them or too much available credit meaning you have more credit then you make in a given year.. Spoke with one of their UW and tried to recon she wanted me to give up about 150k in credit to be considered and that just wasn't going to happen. Their money so they make the rules
My total reporting CL is around 130% of my income. Apart from my non-reporting BBP, I have only opened 1 card since then.

Do they care about stock portfolios? I have several times my income in stocks with low or no dividends.

I am not sure about stock portfolios although certainly they should consider it, but sure they would prefer a big CD with them lol..

The UW I spoke with was on a recon conversation and I was tryign to convience her way to approve me so had the cards stacked against me the reason on my AA records was too many recently opened accounts, but when I spoke to her that was the main reason then she started to count my credit as well and said you are going to have to dump alot x amt of credit if you ever want to be with us, etc.. I just basically said the only reason I wanted your card was for international travel and not going to give up NFCU or PenFed(my primary CU/Bank) for you guys. Could of just been her as well, but she couldn't get over the fact of my available credit to what I made, etc and the stopped the recon at that point. If you are at 130% and a strong profile meaning not opening a ton of cards in the last 12-24 months you probably will be fine. It is a Experian pull as sure you are aware as well.. You also I think mentioned you have had an account with them for a year? Any money in account other then say a trivial 50$ or whatever? All these things matter to CU's and could sway it in your favor as I applied and got approved for membership then next day went for the card showing I was only interested in the card which doomed me as well.. Hope this helps a bit, but just my take with them and speaking with a UW on recon and their responses.

Re: A worthwhile app? (First Tech / PIN related)

wasCB14 — Sun, 17 Jun 2018 00:59:00 GMT

@CreditCuriosity wrote:
I am not sure about stock portfolios although certainly they should consider it, but sure they would prefer a big CD with them lol..

The UW I spoke with was on a recon conversation and I was tryign to convience her way to approve me so had the cards stacked against me the reason on my AA records was too many recently opened accounts, but when I spoke to her that was the main reason then she started to count my credit as well and said you are going to have to dump alot x amt of credit if you ever want to be with us, etc.. I just basically said the only reason I wanted your card was for international travel and not going to give up NFCU or PenFed(my primary CU/Bank) for you guys. Could of just been her as well, but she couldn't get over the fact of my available credit to what I made, etc and the stopped the recon at that point. If you are at 130% and a strong profile meaning not opening a ton of cards in the last 12-24 months you probably will be fine. It is a Experian pull as sure you are aware as well.. You also I think mentioned you have had an account with them for a year? Any money in account other then say a trivial 50$ or whatever? All these things matter to CU's and could sway it in your favor as I applied and got approved for membership then next day went for the card showing I was only interested in the card which doomed me as well.. Hope this helps a bit, but just my take with them and speaking with a UW on recon and their responses.

About a year ago, I applied over the phone for membership, a savings account, and a credit card...all in the span of a 20-minute or so call.

The credit card application was approved. Because most of my income is from 1099s rather than a W-2, they wanted to see two years' worth of tax returns instead of pay stubs. They said I had 30 days to submit them, and I would have a few days later.

However, hours later, I got an Adverse Action email notice from them saying they were rejecting my application for a savings account (and, I assumed, by extension membership) because my provided address did not match the address in my credit report. I did not pursue it beyond that.

Re: A worthwhile app? (First Tech / PIN related)

wasCB14 — Sun, 17 Jun 2018 01:06:42 GMT

I guess I could also just join the CU now, get a savings account, and consider getting a card later...but a savings account in itself wouldn't be very useful. At that point, Schwab debit might be just as convenient, overall, for the limited spend First Tech would get.

Re: A worthwhile app? (First Tech / PIN related)

CreditCuriosity — Sun, 17 Jun 2018 01:37:36 GMT

Oh I thought you still had an acount with them.. In that case I would just avoid them due to the hassle and the VERY conservative nature.. I remember the conversation with the UW as well saying I had X available credit.. I said I am only using $400 dollars of it she then said you could easily basically "bust out" and we have to watch our members money, etc.. Just remembered that.. With you 1.4x in CL's assume it has grown since you applied initially meaning more credit since last applied I probably would just avoid them as it is a "nice to have", not needed type of things and quite honestly their cards aren't anythig special other then one of two places that are true chip and pin in the US. Just my 2 cents since you don't have a savings or relationship with them currently

Re: A worthwhile app? (First Tech / PIN related)

Gmood1 — Sun, 17 Jun 2018 01:42:35 GMT

Andrews FCU could be an option. You sound like a 6.9% APR Titanium type of guy. They are easy to join. https://www.andrewsfcu.org/personal/loans-and-credit/credit-cards.html

Though conservative from data posted on this site. Not as uptight as First Tech. They pull EQ if I"m not mistaken.

Re: A worthwhile app? (First Tech / PIN related)

wasCB14 — Sun, 17 Jun 2018 02:13:53 GMT

@Gmood1 wrote:
Andrews FCU could be an option. You sound like a 6.9% APR Titanium type of guy. They are easy to join. https://www.andrewsfcu.org/personal/loans-and-credit/credit-cards.html
Though conservative from data posted on this site. Not as uptight as First Tech. They pull EQ if I"m not mistaken.

Spotterswiki says the Andrews CVM list is:

1: Signature (paper)
2: No CVM required
3: Plaintext PIN verified by ICC

Barclaycard Arrival has:

1: Signature (paper)
2: Enciphered PIN verified online
3: Enciphered PIN verified by ICC
4: Plaintext PIN verified by ICC
5: No CVM required

Whereas FTFCU is:

1: Enciphered PIN verified online (default PIN...the feature of interest in this thread)
2: Enciphered PIN verified by ICC
3: Plaintext PIN verified by ICC
4: Signature (paper)
5: No CVM required

...so I don't see what I'd get with Andrews that I don't already have with Arrival. Andrews, like the Arrival I already have, would default to signature.

I only find APRs relevant under about 2% (what I'd carry at). Even then, with minimum payments and spending across several cards, it's generally easier to just PIF and not try to out-earn the interest with investments.

Re: A worthwhile app? (First Tech / PIN related)

wasCB14 — Sun, 17 Jun 2018 02:34:23 GMT

@CreditCuriosity wrote:
Oh I thought you still had an acount with them.. In that case I would just avoid them due to the hassle and the VERY conservative nature.. I remember the conversation with the UW as well saying I had X available credit.. I said I am only using $400 dollars of it she then said you could easily basically "bust out" and we have to watch our members money, etc.. Just remembered that.. With you 1.4x in CL's assume it has grown since you applied initially meaning more credit since last applied I probably would just avoid them as it is a "nice to have", not needed type of things and quite honestly their cards aren't anythig special other then one of two places that are true chip and pin in the US. Just my 2 cents since you don't have a savings or relationship with them currently

My income has risen a bit, too, in the last year. CSR has not yet reported, and BBP does not report. If I apply tomorrow, the credit/income ratio may be lower than a year ago.

Re: A worthwhile app? (First Tech / PIN related)

wasCB14 — Sun, 17 Jun 2018 04:20:32 GMT

@wasCB14 wrote:
@UpperNwGuy wrote:
I have the UNFCU Azure card which is almost identical to the First Tech card. The chip is set to "PIN priority" so it doesn't matter if you are online or offline, it always requires you to key in your PIN. I use it all the time in Europe at gift shops, restaurants, tourist attractions, subway ticket machines, train ticket machines, etc. I only use my Chase Sapphire Reserve to pay for hotels. I love the look of surprise when the waiter discovers that my American card works just like the European cards. I say, go for it!
True...there is something to be said for convenience...

I'll think it over for 24 or 48 hours.

Surprising waiters might be fun...but First Tech Choice I think only gives 1% on dining. 3x URs might be worth a short delay after a long meal, especially if I'm paying for others. Maybe not for a short lunch, though.

Re: A worthwhile app? (First Tech / PIN related)

UpperNwGuy — Sun, 17 Jun 2018 09:17:49 GMT

I liked what you posted about the sequence of verification methods for Andrews FCU, Barclay, and FTFCU. I tried to find your source page on Spotterswiki without any success. Does the source page list all the chip+PIN cards? If so, can you post the URL?

Re: A worthwhile app? (First Tech / PIN related)

digitek — Sun, 17 Jun 2018 10:52:56 GMT

Hey UpperNW,

Here is the link that I've been using to search for this stuff:

https://www.spotterswiki.com/emv/cardsearch.php?feature%5B%5D=ftf&priority=pin&type%5B%5D=credit

That is a pre-populated search of Credit Cards that have no FTF and a PIN preferrence first. It then lists all the verification methods that go along with that card.

I was eyeballing that State Department FCU 2% card, but it sounds like it is similar to First Tech in that they are conservative and don't like large total credit limits. I almost went for a First Tech card awhile ago but realized I would hardly ever use it. It would be nice to have, but even when travelling overseas I'd likely use my CSR first most of the time anyway (great 24/7 customer service and better cash back at restaurants). I'd use the State Department card as my daily driver I think even while stateside. Citi DC has been good to me, but never did like the FTF on it, and State Department card also has Cell Phone insurance built in.

Goodluck with whatever you choose wasCB, I am close to doing the same and am interested in what card you pick and what happens when you apply =D

Re: A worthwhile app? (First Tech / PIN related)

redpat — Sun, 17 Jun 2018 11:55:50 GMT

Euros always work for me if I needed a PIN.