topic Re: Amex and Chase working together to limit bonuses? in Credit Cards

Amex and Chase working together to limit bonuses? Update 7/27

Anonymous — Fri, 27 Jul 2018 12:29:19 GMT

I didn’t see this posted yet so thought I would share.

Per this article, Doctor of Credit talks about the possibility that the two creditors will work together to limit bonuses for the new SPG Luxury card that comes out August 1 and potentially new Marriott cards down the road. If this turns out to be true, I find it very troubling that the Amex and Chase are basically colluding to hold down the bonuses for new cards. You’ll be excluded from the the bonus on the SPG luxury card if you got a bonus for upgrading your Marriott card? Amex would only know that if Chase passes on the info (which also is rumored to include the Marriott business card). I understand creditors desire to limit churning, etc but they created this ‘mess’ in the first place to entice people to apply for their cards and now they’re going to share information to stop you from getting new ones? I will hate to see this if it comes to pass and shudder at the possibility of other creditors following suit. For example, Barclays won’t let you get the AA miles bonus on their Aviator card because you received one on a Citi card 9 months earlier. Thoughts?

Re: Amex and Chase working together to limit bonuses?

redpat — Wed, 27 Jun 2018 11:52:34 GMT

I don't think Chase needs to pass on information. Marriott has all the information so if the two are combining they would be sharing SPG and Marriott databases.

From what I have read it will not include SPG personal or business cards so if you are under 5/24 you can get Marriott cards. They simply made Amex follow Chase's 5/24 rule. This maybe Marriott wanting to do this so there isn't a ton of double dipping SUBS, because w/ 3x SPG points out there their will be a flood of Marriott points coming which have to be put on their balance sheet.

Re: Amex and Chase working together to limit bonuses?

AverageJoesCredit — Wed, 27 Jun 2018 11:54:27 GMT

Thanks for sharing Irish. Even as a non bonus chaser I see that as troubling. Why penalize everyone for the sake of controlling the churners. Cant wait to hear K-in-Bostons thoughts on this.

Re: Amex and Chase working together to limit bonuses?

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Jun 2018 12:00:18 GMT

To me, it depnds on which entity is responsible for recording the information, and paying out on SUBs. If it's coming out of Marriott's pocket, there's some logic to it. It would have the effect of commoditizing the credit card offerings, where a consumer's choice is driven more by Marriott brand awareness than AMEX vs. Chase preference. At that point, the card products are almost interchangeable, even though in theory AMEX's offerings are more upscale.

That would also free-up Marriott to go back to the vendors later and say "guys, we're going to add Barclays, or Cap1, or FNBO or who-knows-who-else to the mix, and push their Marriott cobranded cards too"...and this new vendor will be in the background, so the branding will be primarily Marriott, with the identify of the card issuer almost invisible. Maybe it's a long term branding push by Marriott to make the choice of card issuer irrelevant.

Re: Amex and Chase working together to limit bonuses?

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Jun 2018 12:25:54 GMT

Irish80 ... interesting comments! Certainly opens the door to upping our level of awareness and maybe our sensitivities to what may happen in the credit card market place. As has been pointed out by other posters, this matter may have more than one focus.

Re: Amex and Chase working together to limit bonuses?

CreditCuriosity — Wed, 27 Jun 2018 13:17:59 GMT

Ya troubling indeed.. Big Banks seems to never lose. Hopefully this information is coming from Marriott and not the two Lenders/Banks sharing information as the later is very troubling if indeed that is what is happening and raises all kinds of ethical/privacy concerns

Re: Amex and Chase working together to limit bonuses?

K-in-Boston — Wed, 27 Jun 2018 14:01:45 GMT

Wow, this certainly sounds like collusion to my non-attorney ears. I certainly hope that the two financial institutions aren't privately sharing information between the two of them. That's one of the reasons we have three major independent consumer credit reporting bureaus, isn't it? If anything, I would say that bonus information likely would be coming from Marriott. Maybe this was something that was hashed out in the private negotiations that resulted in both Chase and American Express retaining their portfolios and continuing to offer them in the future.

If it's true, I do think it sets a bad precedent for other cobranding agreements. I can see the need to possibly crack down on very abusive churners, but for the general public this seems to be going to quite an extreme.

Re: Amex and Chase working together to limit bonuses?

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Jun 2018 15:24:51 GMT

Even if it’s being spurred by Marriott don’t think for one second that Amex and Chase don’t have a role in the decision. I honestly don;t care what entity is calling the shots, I still think it’s a troubling move.

Re: Amex and Chase working together to limit bonuses?

CreditCuriosity — Wed, 27 Jun 2018 15:42:35 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Even if it’s being spurred by Marriott don’t think for one second that Amex and Chase don’t have a role in the decision. I honestly don;t care what entity is calling the shots, I still think it’s a troubling move.

Oh I agree... Concerning very much so

Re: Amex and Chase working together to limit bonuses?

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Jun 2018 15:50:43 GMT

Perhaps it just comes down to neither issuer being willing to take an "all or nothing" approach where it comes to Marriott's business. Marriott seemingly holds all the cards in this case.

Re: Amex and Chase working together to limit bonuses?

Time2letgo — Wed, 27 Jun 2018 16:10:19 GMT

Maybe... getting ready for the launch of this card has something to do with the new application process with Amex letting people know up front if they are eligible for the bonus.

Re: Amex and Chase working together to limit bonuses?

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Jun 2018 17:32:59 GMT

@AverageJoesCredit wrote:
Thanks for sharing Irish. Even as a non bonus chaser I see that as troubling. Why penalize everyone for the sake of controlling the churners. Cant wait to hear K-in-Bostons thoughts on this.

But this really goes back to what is considered "abusive" or "churning" The average person on the street might feel that there is no 'good' reason to obtain two bonuses from a hotel or airline, so it's not everyone being penalized, just those apparently up to no good. Abuse is doing more that one does.

Re: Amex and Chase working together to limit bonuses?

bourgogne — Wed, 27 Jun 2018 17:46:44 GMT

FAKE NEWS! There has been no collusion! Amex & Chase should focus on updating all their cards to metal instead of trying to mess with a sign on bonus which has been in place since I was elected. oops, sorry wrong thread

Re: Amex and Chase working together to limit bonuses?

redpat — Wed, 27 Jun 2018 18:06:01 GMT

@CreditCuriosity wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Even if it’s being spurred by Marriott don’t think for one second that Amex and Chase don’t have a role in the decision. I honestly don;t care what entity is calling the shots, I still think it’s a troubling move.
Oh I agree... Concerning very much so

This may cause some concern but this is nothing new regarding the US Consumer Privacy Notice on what you can opt out for. Chase for instance can do joint marketing w/ other financial companies they share info and you cannot limit that sharing.

When we sign-up for credit products and expect SUBS, rewards and 0% interest our information is going to used or sold to third parties if we like it or not.

Re: Amex and Chase working together to limit bonuses?

CreditCuriosity — Fri, 29 Jun 2018 14:42:01 GMT

Well just got this email from Amex today and it is on my Business SPG card.. Wonder if it has to do with "sharing" information with Chase/Marriott as update in TOS's

Please read our updated Privacy Notice

We're writing to let you know that we are updating our Business Card Privacy Notice to more clearly explain our data sharing practices and the choices available to Business Card Members. We take our responsibility to protect your privacy very seriously and recognize that our Card Members should have the power to choose how their information is shared.

We may begin sharing your information with our partners

Under our updated policy, we may begin sharing information about you and your business with our co-brand or other business partners for their own use, subject to their privacy policies, unless you ask us not to. The policy update means your business may start receiving offers for relevant products and services from American Express Business Partners that may help you grow your business. Please review the full notice, which describes how and why we may share your information and the choices you have regarding that sharing at americanexpress.com/privacynotices.

Making your privacy selections

We may begin sharing information associated with your Business Card account with our business partners on September 1, 2018, unless you ask us not to. To make your privacy selections, including choosing for us not to share your information in this way, log in to your account at americanexpress.com or call us at 1-855-AXP-PRIV.

It's important for you to know that you can make your privacy selections at any time, and we'll stop sharing your information once you opt-out. Your selections will be valid for three years, at which time you can renew your choice.

Thank you for your Card Membership. Feel free to reach us anytime at americanexpress.com.

American Express Customer Care

Re: Amex and Chase working together to limit bonuses?

Anonymous — Fri, 27 Jul 2018 12:32:15 GMT

This has now been confirmed as to how they will be limiting new cards across the two creditors.

Here are the details as posted on Doctor of Credit. Lots of limitations. Regardless of whether this is Chase and American Express working together, Marriott decision or the 3 in combination, not something that I like to see.. Note that in this article he mentions that the Ritz Carlton credit card is no longer available. TPG also reported that the card was no longer available to new applicants. The link on the Chase site takes you to the Marriott PremierPlus However I did see DoC report that someone found a working link. Guess we will find out soon enough if they will still be offering the card.

EDIT - See the thread by K-in-Boston regarding the Ritz card

Re: Amex and Chase working together to limit bonuses?

redpat — Fri, 27 Jul 2018 13:00:40 GMT

I'm not surprised by this especially for a merger of this size and adding Amex to the credit card mix. Simply put no double, triple or quadruple dipping between the two. Free points has limitations.

Re: Amex and Chase working together to limit bonuses?

Anonymous — Fri, 27 Jul 2018 13:14:05 GMT

@redpat wrote:
I'm not surprised by this especially for a merger of this size and adding Amex to the credit card mix. Simply put no double, triple or quadruple dipping between the two. Free points has limitations.

I get that they’re trying to limit the double dipping but to not let me get the SPG luxury card just because I have the Ritz card is ridiculous. I’ve paid the $450 AF for 3 years, used the card and now that’s preventing me from acquiring the new card? Absurd

Re: Amex and Chase working together to limit bonuses?

iced — Fri, 27 Jul 2018 14:24:54 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@AverageJoesCredit wrote:
Thanks for sharing Irish. Even as a non bonus chaser I see that as troubling. Why penalize everyone for the sake of controlling the churners. Cant wait to hear K-in-Bostons thoughts on this.
But this really goes back to what is considered "abusive" or "churning" The average person on the street might feel that there is no 'good' reason to obtain two bonuses from a hotel or airline, so it's not everyone being penalized, just those apparently up to no good. Abuse is doing more that one does.

This, right here. There's several on this forum who don't think they're churners/abusers because they don't fit the strict definition of it, but from the business perspective (banks, Marriott), they are. In this case, they also get to make the rules. They may have made these programs that encouraged this behavior, but if they don't like the behavior they can also take it away. My definition or your definition or anyone here's definition of churning/abusing is irrelevant, unless you are Marriott, AmEx, or Chase. Their definition is the one that counts, and based on this, anyone who gets/upgrades a card from either bank and banks the bonus, even if its once a year, is churning and thus not eligible for more freebies.

On the bright side, they're not going full AmEx on churners by saying they get one SUB per lifetime...yet.

I also agree this will not affect as many people as we may believe. There's a reality on this forum where having 10 cards isn't uncommon, chasing bonuses is encouraged, and even doing ACH/debit backflips through burning hoops to cash in on savings/checking sign-up bonuses seems normal. None of this is common practice among the general population, and reports of cards limiting sign-up bonuses between banks is non-news to most people.