topic Re: Will I trigger an AmEx Financial Review? in Credit Cards

Will I trigger an AmEx Financial Review?

Anonymous — Tue, 06 Mar 2018 09:59:15 GMT

My AmEx Everyday card is at credit limit of $9,000. Using the a 3xCli request would place me at a $27,000 credit limit.

I have heard that AmEx starts a financial review on people that get around $28,000. How likely am I to trigger a Financial review?

My AmEx profile:
I usually pay my balance off in full, as such I never paid interest to AmEx. I regular get physical mail, email, and account page offers for the Platinum Card, Gold Card, Blue Cash Everyday, Pre-Approved for a full $26,000 loan at their lowest rate, and recently I started getting offers for a card I wasn't familiar with called the SimplyCash Plus card. My stated income is $60,000.

My FICO 8 scores are Equifax 752, Transunion 754, and Experian 747

Re: Will I trigger an AmEx Financial Review?

Anonymous — Tue, 06 Mar 2018 07:34:41 GMT

Interested in what feedback you get...

Re: Will I trigger an AmEx Financial Review?

wasCB14 — Tue, 06 Mar 2018 07:50:45 GMT

I've not been through this, but I think people who know more than I do about this could use more information.

Are you only concerned about a full FR? Or are you also concerned about being asked for proof of income?

Re: Will I trigger an AmEx Financial Review?

Anonymous — Tue, 06 Mar 2018 09:17:13 GMT

I will likely fail a Full FR, but will likely pass the bank only version.

Re: Will I trigger an AmEx Financial Review?

wasCB14 — Tue, 06 Mar 2018 09:53:00 GMT

@Anonymouswrote:
I will likely fail a Full FR, but will likely pass the bank only version.

Can you elaborate?

Re: Will I trigger an AmEx Financial Review?

Anonymous — Tue, 06 Mar 2018 10:03:37 GMT

My tax documents do not fully reflect my stated income.

Re: Will I trigger an AmEx Financial Review?

pip3man — Tue, 06 Mar 2018 11:39:16 GMT

with Amex the AGI listed on your 1040 or 1040A should be what you report as your primary income. I believe there's an option to include a secondary source of income where u would enter other revenue u receive. Because in the event of comprehensive financial review, they will be requesting your tax return only to verify your income on the 4506-T. And may God help you if it doesn't match or at least within a reasonable range cos it's either one out of these two will happen - a hard limit imposed on your accounts definitely/indefinitely or they shut u down completely and temporarily blacklist you. So thread carefully...

Re: Will I trigger an AmEx Financial Review?

UncleB — Tue, 06 Mar 2018 12:03:03 GMT

@Anonymouswrote:
My AmEx Everyday card is at credit limit of $9,000. Using the a 3xCli request would place me at a $27,000 credit limit.

I have heard that AmEx starts a financial review on people that get around $28,000. How likely am I to trigger a Financial review?

My AmEx profile:
I usually pay my balance off in full, as such I never paid interest to AmEx. I regular get physical mail, email, and account page offers for the Platinum Card, Gold Card, Blue Cash Everyday, Pre-Approved for a full $26,000 loan at their lowest rate, and recently I started getting offers for a card I wasn't familiar with called the SimplyCash Plus card. My stated income is $60,000.

My FICO 8 scores are Equifax 752, Transunion 754, and Experian 747

I believe you're confusing a proof-of-income (POI) request with a FR (Financial Review).

There's no "magic number" for a CLI that prompts Amex to request proof-of-income (POI)... it varies from person to person. If they do request POI (which is usually by requesting form 4506-T) you can safely ignore it; you just won't get the CLI.

On the other hand, FR (Financial Review) is a whole 'nother beast. During a FR, your accounts are generally locked (all of them if you have more than one) and if you refuse their requests your cards will usually be closed. If you provide the information they request (also usually a 4506-T) and the information is markedly different from what you had previously reported there's a good chance they'll either close your accounts and/or lower your limits (in the case of a charge card, you might get a 'hard' limit).

I don't recall any cases where a CLI request prompted a FR. If there was one that I've missed it's definitely an outlier.

For more information on this, you should check the Amex 'mega' thread, found here: http://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Card-Applications/The-Definitive-Amex-3X-CLI-Guide/td-p/1811071

Re: Will I trigger an AmEx Financial Review?

Anonymous — Tue, 06 Mar 2018 13:13:49 GMT

@UncleBwrote:
@Anonymouswrote:
My AmEx Everyday card is at credit limit of $9,000. Using the a 3xCli request would place me at a $27,000 credit limit.

I have heard that AmEx starts a financial review on people that get around $28,000. How likely am I to trigger a Financial review?

My AmEx profile:
I usually pay my balance off in full, as such I never paid interest to AmEx. I regular get physical mail, email, and account page offers for the Platinum Card, Gold Card, Blue Cash Everyday, Pre-Approved for a full $26,000 loan at their lowest rate, and recently I started getting offers for a card I wasn't familiar with called the SimplyCash Plus card. My stated income is $60,000.

My FICO 8 scores are Equifax 752, Transunion 754, and Experian 747
I believe you're confusing a proof-of-income (POI) request with a FR (Financial Review).

There's no "magic number" for a CLI that prompts Amex to request proof-of-income (POI)... it varies from person to person. If they do request POI (which is usually by requesting form 4506-T) you can safely ignore it; you just won't get the CLI.

On the other hand, FR (Financial Review) is a whole 'nother beast. During a FR, your accounts are generally locked (all of them if you have more than one) and if you refuse their requests your cards will usually be closed. If you provide the information they request (also usually a 4506-T) and the information is markedly different from what you had previously reported there's a good chance they'll either close your accounts and/or lower your limits (in the case of a charge card, you might get a 'hard' limit).

I don't recall any cases where a CLI request prompted a FR. If there was one that I've missed it's definitely an outlier.

For more information on this, you should check the Amex 'mega' thread, found here: http://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Card-Applications/The-Definitive-Amex-3X-CLI-Guide/td-p/1811071

This. And, you have the opportunity to play around with the amount requested to see if you can avoid a PoI request. So if when you ask for 3x, you get prompted for a 4056T, you can cancel, request a smaller amount, and see if you are still asked for the form. In some cases, you might find that the CLI that "works" might be too small to waste a time-restricted request, but some find that while a full 3x requires PoI, something only a little less (say 2.5) doesn't. All depends on the unknown details being used by Amex.

Re: Will I trigger an AmEx Financial Review?

MrDisco99 — Tue, 06 Mar 2018 13:26:15 GMT

When you put in your CLI request, it will tell you if they want proof of income. Just hit the back button and put in a lower number.

FR is when they hold your accounts for ransom in exchange for every piece of data about your life. That's usually only triggered by suspicious spending patterns or the like, not a CLI request.

Re: Will I trigger an AmEx Financial Review?

DaveInAZ — Tue, 06 Mar 2018 13:34:37 GMT

@Anonymouswrote:
My AmEx Everyday card is at credit limit of $9,000. Using the a 3xCli request would place me at a $27,000 credit limit.

I have heard that AmEx starts a financial review on people that get around $28,000. How likely am I to trigger a Financial review?

My AmEx profile:
I usually pay my balance off in full, as such I never paid interest to AmEx. I regular get physical mail, email, and account page offers for the Platinum Card, Gold Card, Blue Cash Everyday, Pre-Approved for a full $26,000 loan at their lowest rate, and recently I started getting offers for a card I wasn't familiar with called the SimplyCash Plus card. My stated income is $60,000.

My FICO 8 scores are Equifax 752, Transunion 754, and Experian 747

In my opinion Everyday is one of their least attractive credit cards, only 2% rewards on grocery & 1% all else. I have an ED, but frankly only took the pre-approval offer for the SUB and 15 month 0%, including BTs. Instead of trying for a 3x CLI I suggest you go for the Blue Cash Everyday pre-approval - should be a nice SUB + 0% for 12-15 months, and better rewards - 3% groceries, 2% gas. I much prefer my BCE over my ED.

I tread carefully with Amex as I would never agree to giving them access to my tax records. For a low interest mortgage, home equity, or car loan you get all the proof of income you want. For a credit card with interest rate in the teens, take a hike.

Re: Will I trigger an AmEx Financial Review?

Anonymous — Tue, 06 Mar 2018 13:50:41 GMT

@DaveInAZwrote:
@Anonymouswrote:
My AmEx Everyday card is at credit limit of $9,000. Using the a 3xCli request would place me at a $27,000 credit limit.

I have heard that AmEx starts a financial review on people that get around $28,000. How likely am I to trigger a Financial review?

My AmEx profile:
I usually pay my balance off in full, as such I never paid interest to AmEx. I regular get physical mail, email, and account page offers for the Platinum Card, Gold Card, Blue Cash Everyday, Pre-Approved for a full $26,000 loan at their lowest rate, and recently I started getting offers for a card I wasn't familiar with called the SimplyCash Plus card. My stated income is $60,000.

My FICO 8 scores are Equifax 752, Transunion 754, and Experian 747
In my opinion Everyday is one of their least attractive credit cards, only 2% rewards on grocery & 1% all else. I have an ED, but frankly only took the pre-approval offer for the SUB and 15 month 0%, including BTs. Instead of trying for a 3x CLI I suggest you go for the Blue Cash Everyday pre-approval - should be a nice SUB + 0% for 12-15 months, and better rewards - 3% groceries, 2% gas. I much prefer my BCE over my ED.

I tread carefully with Amex as I would never agree to giving them access to my tax records. For a low interest mortgage, home equity, or car loan you get all the proof of income you want. For a credit card with interest rate in the teens, take a hike.

Everyday is one of the best cards of it's kind in the industry.

If you reach the bonus you get 2.4x and 1.2x with no AF that can transfer to travel partners.

There isn't another card with no AF in the industry that transfers to airline and hotel partners without a "big brother" card attached to it.

Re: Will I trigger an AmEx Financial Review?

DaveInAZ — Tue, 06 Mar 2018 13:58:01 GMT

@Anonymouswrote:
@DaveInAZwrote:

In my opinion Everyday is one of their least attractive credit cards, only 2% rewards on grocery & 1% all else. I have an ED, but frankly only took the pre-approval offer for the SUB and 15 month 0%, including BTs. Instead of trying for a 3x CLI I suggest you go for the Blue Cash Everyday pre-approval - should be a nice SUB + 0% for 12-15 months, and better rewards - 3% groceries, 2% gas. I much prefer my BCE over my ED.

I tread carefully with Amex as I would never agree to giving them access to my tax records. For a low interest mortgage, home equity, or car loan you get all the proof of income you want. For a credit card with interest rate in the teens, take a hike.
Everyday is one of the best cards of it's kind in the industry.

If you reach the bonus you get 2.4x and 1.2x with no AF that can transfer to travel partners.

There isn't another card with no AF in the industry that transfers to airline and hotel partners without a "big brother" card attached to it.

I guess I should have prefaced that with: I very rarely travel, and when I do I much prefer a driving trip. I haven't had to climb into an airplane since 2010, and hope it's another 8 years before I do again. So, airline points are useless to me I usually use my MR points for Amazon purchases, making them only worth 7/10ths of a cent, instead of the 1pt=1cent for my BCE statement credits.

Re: Will I trigger an AmEx Financial Review?

HeavenOhio — Tue, 06 Mar 2018 14:02:27 GMT

@Anonymous, as explained above, you won't be prompted for financial review. I don't think you'll be asked for proof of income either. But as stated, if they do ask, hit the back button and try again. BrutalBodyShots did this 21 times during one CLI request. A week later, he received 21 rubber-banded POI forms in the mail that he could safely ignore.

If they don't want to give you the full CLI, my guess is that you'll be presented with a counteroffer.

Re: Will I trigger an AmEx Financial Review?

Anonymous — Tue, 06 Mar 2018 14:04:23 GMT

@DaveInAZwrote:
@Anonymouswrote:
@DaveInAZwrote:

In my opinion Everyday is one of their least attractive credit cards, only 2% rewards on grocery & 1% all else. I have an ED, but frankly only took the pre-approval offer for the SUB and 15 month 0%, including BTs. Instead of trying for a 3x CLI I suggest you go for the Blue Cash Everyday pre-approval - should be a nice SUB + 0% for 12-15 months, and better rewards - 3% groceries, 2% gas. I much prefer my BCE over my ED.

I tread carefully with Amex as I would never agree to giving them access to my tax records. For a low interest mortgage, home equity, or car loan you get all the proof of income you want. For a credit card with interest rate in the teens, take a hike.
Everyday is one of the best cards of it's kind in the industry.

If you reach the bonus you get 2.4x and 1.2x with no AF that can transfer to travel partners.

There isn't another card with no AF in the industry that transfers to airline and hotel partners without a "big brother" card attached to it.
I guess I should have prefaced that with: I very rarely travel, and when I do I much prefer a driving trip. I haven't had to climb into an airplane since 2010, and hope it's another 8 years before I do again. So, airline points are useless to me I usually use my MR points for Amazon purchases, making them only worth 7/10ths of a cent, instead of the 1pt=1cent for my BCE statement credits.

Still. It's a travel card. So when used for travel, it's exceptional for the $$ AF cost ($0).

Re: Will I trigger an AmEx Financial Review?

K-in-Boston — Tue, 06 Mar 2018 14:18:49 GMT

@pip3manwrote:
with Amex the AGI listed on your 1040 or 1040A should be what you report as your primary income. I believe there's an option to include a secondary source of income where u would enter other revenue u receive. Because in the event of comprehensive financial review, they will be requesting your tax return only to verify your income on the 4506-T. And may God help you if it doesn't match or at least within a reasonable range cos it's either one out of these two will happen - a hard limit imposed on your accounts definitely/indefinitely or they shut u down completely and temporarily blacklist you. So thread carefully...

There is absolutely no reason to use AGI rather than your actual gross income. They're getting a transcript of the 1040, not just box 37 that lists the AGI. I would assume that the vast majority of people submitting 4506-T forms for very high credit lines have itemized deductions far higher than the standard deduction. (I know I do.) It also doesn't take into account very common pretax deductions like health/dental insurance, HSAs, FSAs, retirement contributions, etc. Within reason, Amex can and will expect there to be some variation. Without looking it up for exact numbers, the AGI listed on the returns Amex just got from my 4506-T (or hopefully got by now) is probably off by at least $25-30k from the "wages" which are listed below as types of income to include.

When requesting a CLI with Amex there is one spot for "Total Annual Income."

Re: Will I trigger an AmEx Financial Review?

NRB525 — Tue, 06 Mar 2018 14:40:44 GMT

OP if your stated income is $60k, the full request of $27k might be a stretch. As others have clarified, you would be requested to provide the 4506-T as proof of income, not FR.

Re: Will I trigger an AmEx Financial Review?

simplynoir — Tue, 06 Mar 2018 14:48:34 GMT

I will also add variance is normal and to be expected as far as reporting income compared to your tax form as K-i-B pointed out. In my 4506T case a few months ago I normally underreport my stated income with lenders not because I'm worried of proving it but because of the expected difference between what you report and what you take home (AGI). But at least with AMEX what I've discovered is not that they "do not care" necessarily but that you're not overstating your income to the point you basically outright lied on your app to get the limits you received from them. This is all based off the rep that called me and I spoke to several days before approving my new SL on my SPG.

Re: Will I trigger an AmEx Financial Review?

simplynoir — Tue, 06 Mar 2018 14:53:09 GMT

@NRB525wrote:
OP if your stated income is $60k, the full request of $27k might be a stretch. As others have clarified, you would be requested to provide the 4506-T as proof of income, not FR.

I don't know about that. There have been several datapoints I've seen recently where people have been able to get total limits almost equal to their yearly income. It has mystified me to find some type of ryhme or reason for it.

Re: Will I trigger an AmEx Financial Review?

NRB525 — Tue, 06 Mar 2018 14:58:32 GMT

Total limits across several cards, or on one reavolver? I do not doubt AMEX will keep adding nice limits when you sign up for multiple AF cards. With a single revolver, however it seems quite unlikely.