topic Re: New User - CSP/TY Premier in Credit Cards

New User - CSP/TY Premier

Anonymous — Fri, 24 Aug 2018 17:56:17 GMT

Hello!

I am a new user that has been browsing these forums for months taking in all the information I could. It has helped me in many ways to understand the credit system and how to make the best of it. Unfortunately, I do not come from a family who really know, or cares to learn, about anything credit related. Thanks to skimming these forums, back in February I apped for my first credit card, the Discover IT Chrome!

However, I have one question that I really couldn't find a solid answer for searching both these forums and the internet in general.

So I am looking into apping for a travel credit card. My two choices right now are between Chase Sapphire Preferred and Citi ThankYou Premier.

Now, I have made a fun little excel sheet (as well as using thepointcalculator.com) looking at my estimated yearly spend in all categories relevant to these cards, along with their typical combos (CSP+CFU, CSP+CFU+CF, TYPremier+DC, even through in the CSR for good measure, but thats likely to never happen) and everytime Citi comes out on top for spend categories. Granted I really only know how to compare using monetary value of points. I understand that the Double Cash card is cash-back only and can't transfer the way the chase combos can, so, at least for me, I am not sure how to weight that.

All in all, most signs point to the Premier over Chase when looking at spend alone, but when I do research into the ThankYou points system I am coming up with a lot of outdated articles, and just general reviews of annoyance without much depth into why people are saying that the Ultimate Rewards system is better than the ThankYou points. I see a lot of articles raving over Chase and saying they are glad to not have to deal with ThankYou points anymore. But I can't figure out why so many people are so mad. a big problem being most user reviews are coming from 2015-ish. Not to mention TY Premier never seems to be a "favorite travel card" on those best credit card lists, which is odd considering the gas category for travel makes me think its great.

I guess what I am asking for is for a real review from people who have used both (or at least Citi because there are endless articles on UR users) and tell me what it was like working with that systems. As much as a great card the Premier looks for me, it really is only as good as its redemption capabilities. The way I see it, if I cant work with ThankYou Points, then all the gas spend in the world isn't going to help me lol.

My current situation goes like this:

Age: 24

FICO Scores: TU 765 (0 Inq) , EX: 760 (3 Inq), No Eq Score. Fairly thin credit files, though.

Gross Income: 32K. Living is Los Angeles, CA. Very sad I know That entry-level pay, man.

Debt: ~22k (student loans (12,7k) + car loan (~8k) )

I have one credit card, My Discover Chrome ($8,100 limit). I keep the Util around 4%-8%.

I know some might say to stick with no-fee cash back cards and while the uber visa is never off the table, I have given this probably more thought than this really needs. I love traveling. I sooner take myself to foreign countries before going home for Christmas (don't worry my parents aren't hurt by this lol). I am a budget traveler though, because, well, you see my income above. I try to make every trip stay under the $1500 mark after everything is said and done.

I want a card to grow with me. I don't want to get a new card every fews years. Which is why I am being so type A about this decision. I wanted to hear some opinions from the myFico experts about comapring the two rewards systems of UR and Citi TY. Also alternative opinions are appriciated

Hope I was able to articulate everything right. Sorry about this novel of a question. Also if any other info is needed, please let me know!

Re: New User - CSP/TY Premier

K-in-Boston — Fri, 24 Aug 2018 18:14:49 GMT

Welcome to the forums! ThankYou Premier does get a bit of a bad rap at times. In my wallet, I have Citi and Chase cards. I find value in having both UR-earning cards and TYP-earning cards. As you said, the value is truly going to be whatever you eventually end up redeeming the points for. For redemption through the travel portal, CSP and TY Premier are essentially equal at 1.25 cents per point and equal at 1 cent per point for cash back.

If you're going for travel by moving points, the right choice is going to depend on what airline and/or airline alliance you prefer. Chase does seem to have a bit of an advantage when it comes to travel partners.

If you only have the one card, you can certainly earn points faster with Citi. I don't think anyone would argue that point. However both cards can be paired with other cards from the same issuer to rack up points. While there have been rumors that Chase may not allow Freedom and Freedom Unlimited cards to have their URs transferred to CSP/CSR in the future, at the moment the ability to earn 5x on quarterly categories on Freedom, 3x on travel and restaurants with CSR (or 2x with CSP), and 1.5x on everything else with Freedom Unlimited is a powerful combination. Even if you took the easy way with the Chase travel portal for redeeming with CSP, you'd get at least 1.875% back on everything and as much as 6.25% (that becomes 2.25% to 7.5% with a CSR).

Edit: Other considerations - Chase has a minimum line of $5,000 for CSP (and $10,000 for CSR). Citi is not known for usually having very generous starting lines, but usually you can get a soft pull CLI within a few months and then every 6 months. With Chase, CLIs are rare unless you ask for them and they will always be a HP if you do.

Re: New User - CSP/TY Premier

wasCB14 — Fri, 24 Aug 2018 18:33:55 GMT

Your income and debt might make an approval difficult, and paying off debt may make more sense than spending money on travel.

That said...

Citi TY doesn't have the transfer partners I want. I find a mix of MRs and URs more useful. Mainly, I transfer to Hyatt, United, and BA.

Can TYs be valuable? Yes, but not really for my purposes. There's a limit the the number of frequent flyer programs I'm willing to deal with, and how long and complicated a booking process I'm willing to endure. I never had Premier, but I was a big fan of Prestige when I could easily use TYs for 1.6 cents per point on cheap revenue AA flights.

I do like Citi cards for their extended warranty and price protection features...but those are included on even no-AF cards.

Re: New User - CSP/TY Premier

Anonymous — Fri, 24 Aug 2018 18:56:02 GMT

Thank you both for your responses!

I have definitely looked at the transfer partners, but I haven't given the specific partnerships too much thought yet, as opposed to the actual system as a whole. I have never transfered points before, but I hoping to at least start moving into that as I am able to grow my travel fund and my general income as well. It was my understanding that the actual airline transfer didn't matter, but the partnerships since everything can kind of be finessed to get what you want, or did I miss something in that?

@wasCB14 wrote:
Your income and debt might make an approval difficult, and paying off debt may make more sense than spending money on travel.

I totally understand where you are coming from! It certainly looks pretty overwhelming considering the sad state of my income lol. However, I do have pretty good control of my debt. Minimum payments for my debt only total $300 a month, plus what I add too it. My rent isn't too bad, thanks to some favourable circumstances. Nothing too overwhelming, even though sometimes I don't feel that way. This is actually why I was hoping to get a travel card. I know I wouldn't be getting two free first class tickets every year, but I figured if I put my regular spend, plus my budget travel, on these cards then I can work towards my goal destinations that I can't afford with my standard travel budget (looking at you Peru). I guess, I would need to find a way to explain this to the banks lol. Does apply in branch ever yeild better results, because I bank with Chase and they see me so much with my questions that they recognize me now, so if that holds any weight I will definitely do that!

Re: New User - CSP/TY Premier

K-in-Boston — Fri, 24 Aug 2018 19:19:49 GMT

If you bank with Chase, and you are open to CSR instead of CSP, I would certainly see if you have a prequalification for the card. The $450 annual fee is a tough pill to swallow on the surface but it comes with lots of benefits, including a $300 annual travel credit. Effectively the card would be $55 more per year than the CSP, but the general rule is that if you spend $2500 or so a year on travel and dining (which includes Starbucks, the taco truck, and the trendy new Michelin star restaurant you have a reservation for in 18 months), the CSR will usually make more sense.

Re: New User - CSP/TY Premier

wasCB14 — Fri, 24 Aug 2018 19:24:06 GMT

Do you have a primary airline...perhaps one that operates most flights from your local airport, or one you've earned status with?

Re: New User - CSP/TY Premier

Anonymous — Fri, 24 Aug 2018 19:56:29 GMT

@K-in-Boston wrote:
If you bank with Chase, and you are open to CSR instead of CSP, I would certainly see if you have a prequalification for the card. The $450 annual fee is a tough pill to swallow on the surface but it comes with lots of benefits, including a $300 annual travel credit. Effectively the card would be $55 more per year than the CSP, but the general rule is that if you spend $2500 or so a year on travel and dining (which includes Starbucks, the taco truck, and the trendy new Michelin star restaurant you have a reservation for in 18 months), the CSR will usually make more sense.

I have definitely looked into CSR in my calculations and It usually comes out similar to Citi TY even after subtracting the effective $150. I do find that $450 a bit scary to swallow, especially because I am not sure how the$300 applies. I would say I could probably spend the $2500 on food alone lol. Its definitely a thought, I am just more concerned about getting approved with my income levels. Its such a prestigious card that I would be nervous apping for it.

Re: New User - CSP/TY Premier

Anonymous — Fri, 24 Aug 2018 19:59:41 GMT

@wasCB14 wrote:
Do you have a primary airline...perhaps one that operates most flights from your local airport, or one you've earned status with?

I do not having any airline/hotel loyalties. I live near LAX which I do not believe is a hub of anything lol. Honestly for budget traveling I mostly go via OTA. Ocassionally I will book direct if I decide to fly home to see my parents.

Re: New User - CSP/TY Premier

K-in-Boston — Fri, 24 Aug 2018 20:14:01 GMT

Hence my suggestion about asking if you have a prequalification in-branch. Chase also doesn't usually like being the first bank to give you a $10k+ limit, but it does happen. As for the travel credit:

Merchants in the travel category include airlines, hotels, motels, timeshares, campgrounds, car rental agencies, cruise lines, travel agencies, discount travel sites, and operators of passenger trains, buses, taxis, limousines, ferries, toll bridges and highways, and parking lots and garages.

Re: New User - CSP/TY Premier

wasCB14 — Fri, 24 Aug 2018 20:17:25 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@wasCB14 wrote:
Do you have a primary airline...perhaps one that operates most flights from your local airport, or one you've earned status with?
I do not having any airline/hotel loyalties. I live near LAX which I do not believe is a hub of anything lol. Honestly for budget traveling I mostly go via OTA. Ocassionally I will book direct if I decide to fly home to see my parents.

I use LAX and ONT, occasionally SNA. LAX is a hub for several airlines (American, Delta, United, Alaska, focus city for Southwest); it's just hard to notice when they all have a lot of flights.

That said, the abundance of choice may make selecting a reward system trickier.

Re: New User - CSP/TY Premier

Shadowfactor — Fri, 24 Aug 2018 21:53:36 GMT

Is there a reason you haven’t looked at Amex ? The PRG would seem to be a good fit for you as a college student. It covers all the normal college life expense categories.

If you do get an Amex. I would certainly get a no Fee NO FTF visa or MC to use on trips as discover and Amex coverage is spotty at best.

The CSR travel credit is applied as you spend in a travel category. As you spend, they credit up to $300
Be it a single or multiple transaction(s)
But being that the CL is 10K minimum on the CSR. I’m not sure your income would qualify you.

If you would be open to opening another US bank product first. The Altitude Reserve is a nice catch all card. 4.5% on all mobile pay and most travel is certainly nice.
Points are extremely simple as they can be used in the travel portal and real time redemption. Points are worth 1.5C

It really comes down to how you want to redeem your rewards. Chase and Amex have advantages over Citi as their airline transfer programs are more extensive.

If you prefer simple and just want to use the portal to redeem. Pick the card that will accrue you the fastest amount of points for the least amount of money.

Re: New User - CSP/TY Premier

wasCB14 — Fri, 24 Aug 2018 20:41:12 GMT

Amex could be worth a look.

LAX's TBIT is getting a high-end "Centurion" lounge in 2019 (admission to which will require a $550 Platinum card that comes with a lot of various credits, but not all are easy to use). Of course, it's not open yet, and it's more a comfort perk than a way to save money when you're already traveling cheaply.

Airfare and prepaid hotels are the only permanent bonus categories on Platinum (there are occasionally some merchant-specific offers) but other Amex cards can earn points at better rates.

Re: New User - CSP/TY Premier

Anonymous — Fri, 24 Aug 2018 22:05:05 GMT

@K-in-Boston wrote:
Hence my suggestion about asking if you have a prequalification in-branch. Chase also doesn't usually like being the first bank to give you a $10k+ limit, but it does happen. As for the travel credit:

Merchants in the travel category include airlines, hotels, motels, timeshares, campgrounds, car rental agencies, cruise lines, travel agencies, discount travel sites, and operators of passenger trains, buses, taxis, limousines, ferries, toll bridges and highways, and parking lots and garages.

It would actually count towards flights? That would be great! I don't know why it was in my head that it wouldn't count for that.

I know I am prequalified for the CSP. I was actually told that by one of the in-branch relationship banker. I can definitely ask her about my chances for a CSR just out of curiosity.

Re: New User - CSP/TY Premier

Shadowfactor — Fri, 24 Aug 2018 22:15:50 GMT

Yes chases travel credit can be used towards flights, hotels. Anything that falls into their definition of travel.

Amex is the one that the credit can’t be used towards flights. But there’s even ways around that and sometimes the flight ends up being credited anyway.

The 10K SL on the CSR is going to be the hard part for you I think. Chase isn’t known to be the first one to hand out high limits. Combined with your income. It may be a hurdle for a while.
They want to see a year of history with comparable limits. Definitely check the prequalified section out. It’s possible to see the CSR prequalified offers now online.

Re: New User - CSP/TY Premier

Anonymous — Fri, 24 Aug 2018 22:32:03 GMT

@Shadowfactor wrote:
Is there a reason you haven’t looked at Amex ? The PRG would seem to be a good fit for you as a college student. It covers all the normal college life expense categories.

Oh I should clarify, I am not a college student but a fully fledge grown up with an office job! However I guess I still spend like a college student. . .

I have never really been all that impressed with Amex. Especially Amex branded cards not coming from American Express themselves. I know my mom always pushed Amex, but I think thats more from social perception. Their low acceptance really kind of put them off for me despite really liking the reward structures. Maybe I am just being naive about them, but yeah that low acceptance really stops me. At least my discover is fairly well accepted inside the US, just useless outside the country.

Re: New User - CSP/TY Premier

Anonymous — Fri, 24 Aug 2018 23:26:53 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Shadowfactor wrote:
Is there a reason you haven’t looked at Amex ? The PRG would seem to be a good fit for you as a college student. It covers all the normal college life expense categories.
Oh I should clarify, I am not a college student but a fully fledge grown up with an office job! However I guess I still spend like a college student. . .

I have never really been all that impressed with Amex. Especially Amex branded cards not coming from American Express themselves. I know my mom always pushed Amex, but I think thats more from social perception. Their low acceptance really kind of put them off for me despite really liking the reward structures. Maybe I am just being naive about them, but yeah that low acceptance really stops me. At least my discover is fairly well accepted inside the US, just useless outside the country.

Their acceptance is pretty good in most large cities. However, are you sure you can comfortable meet minimum spends while meeting rent/retirement/living/ debt payments? I make significantly more than that, and I am still contemplating if I can spend enough to meet 4k-5k minimum spends. I usually do, but it interferes with my savings goals typically. If you opened a Discover card recently take advantage of the cash back/points match in the first year. Be careful to not to spend more than you can pay in month. Interest always cancels out credit card rewards. You live in a high COL city with fixed rent, car, and student loan payments. While you are young save and get rid of debt before it becomes a problem later. </Rant> It is ultimately your life. Enjoy the youth.

Re: New User - CSP/TY Premier

Anonymous — Fri, 24 Aug 2018 23:41:00 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Shadowfactor wrote:
Is there a reason you haven’t looked at Amex ? The PRG would seem to be a good fit for you as a college student. It covers all the normal college life expense categories.
Oh I should clarify, I am not a college student but a fully fledge grown up with an office job! However I guess I still spend like a college student. . .

I have never really been all that impressed with Amex. Especially Amex branded cards not coming from American Express themselves. I know my mom always pushed Amex, but I think thats more from social perception. Their low acceptance really kind of put them off for me despite really liking the reward structures. Maybe I am just being naive about them, but yeah that low acceptance really stops me. At least my discover is fairly well accepted inside the US, just useless outside the country.
Their acceptance is pretty good in most large cities. However, are you sure you can comfortable meet minimum spends while meeting rent/retirement/living/ debt payments? I make significantly more than that, and I am still contemplating if I can spend enough to meet 4k-5k minimum spends. I usually do, but it interferes with my savings goals typically. If you opened a Discover card recently take advantage of the cash back/points match in the first year. Be careful to not to spend more than you can pay in month. Interest always cancels out credit card rewards. You live in a high COL city with fixed rent, car, and student loan payments. While you are young save and get rid of debt before it becomes a problem later. </Rant> It is ultimately your life. Enjoy the youth.

Hey, I always welcome life advice lol. And no worries on minimum spend, I can just pay my roommates rent for 2 months and have them venmo me to pay and there is that minimum spend right there. Plus I am sure my parents have something needing to be paid for so I am pretty comfortable with that. Yes, LA is too dang expensive for what it is, but I am fortunate enough to have rent compariable to Dallas, plus my loans all have pretty small minimum payments and I have a some-what payoff plan, plus, roughly ~ 10 to 11k in emergency funds and my work provides a 401k. As nice as getting debt free faster would be, I have already learned a hard lesson about waiting for the "perfect conditions" to start doing the things to make you happy. I would rather be making student loan payments a few extra years and make sure I am able to see the things I want to see. Life is short and all that nonsense. All within reason of course. I keep a seperate savings account for my travel funding!

I am so Type A about finances, so I do not take this decision lightly. Its just now about me choosing the best card for me overall. The Citi card has better spend categories, but it seems the public really detests their redemption capabilities. Plus I can't find anything on if OTA count as travel with Citi.

Re: New User - CSP/TY Premier

Anonymous — Sat, 25 Aug 2018 00:12:41 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Shadowfactor wrote:
Is there a reason you haven’t looked at Amex ? The PRG would seem to be a good fit for you as a college student. It covers all the normal college life expense categories.
Oh I should clarify, I am not a college student but a fully fledge grown up with an office job! However I guess I still spend like a college student. . .

I have never really been all that impressed with Amex. Especially Amex branded cards not coming from American Express themselves. I know my mom always pushed Amex, but I think thats more from social perception. Their low acceptance really kind of put them off for me despite really liking the reward structures. Maybe I am just being naive about them, but yeah that low acceptance really stops me. At least my discover is fairly well accepted inside the US, just useless outside the country.
Their acceptance is pretty good in most large cities. However, are you sure you can comfortable meet minimum spends while meeting rent/retirement/living/ debt payments? I make significantly more than that, and I am still contemplating if I can spend enough to meet 4k-5k minimum spends. I usually do, but it interferes with my savings goals typically. If you opened a Discover card recently take advantage of the cash back/points match in the first year. Be careful to not to spend more than you can pay in month. Interest always cancels out credit card rewards. You live in a high COL city with fixed rent, car, and student loan payments. While you are young save and get rid of debt before it becomes a problem later. </Rant> It is ultimately your life. Enjoy the youth.
Hey, I always welcome life advice lol. And no worries on minimum spend, I can just pay my roommates rent for 2 months and have them venmo me to pay and there is that minimum spend right there. Plus I am sure my parents have something needing to be paid for so I am pretty comfortable with that. Yes, LA is too dang expensive for what it is, but I am fortunate enough to have rent compariable to Dallas, plus my loans all have pretty small minimum payments and I have a some-what payoff plan, plus, roughly ~ 10 to 11k in emergency funds and my work provides a 401k. As nice as getting debt free faster would be, I have already learned a hard lesson about waiting for the "perfect conditions" to start doing the things to make you happy. I would rather be making student loan payments a few extra years and make sure I am able to see the things I want to see. Life is short and all that nonsense. All within reason of course. I keep a seperate savings account for my travel funding!

I am so Type A about finances, so I do not take this decision lightly. Its just now about me choosing the best card for me overall. The Citi card has better spend categories, but it seems the public really detests their redemption capabilities. Plus I can't find anything on if OTA count as travel with Citi.

Sounds like you have a good plan. As long as you are comfortable collecting money from your mates on rent. Lots of friendships are ruined by money issues. Sounds like you have a plan which is a lot more than most have, so kudos to you! Happy traveling! I was in similar position at your age($15/hr 200 student loan payment and 600 for rent and utilities), but we didn't have fancy things like Plastiq and paying rent via credit card usually meant a cash advance. Good luck to you!

TYP has a good sign up bonus and since it is MasterCard, you can use it to pay mortgages. If your parents will let you, that is an option and a quick way to get a sign up bonus and the benefits are really good long-term.

Re: New User - CSP/TY Premier

Shadowfactor — Sat, 25 Aug 2018 05:17:36 GMT

I’ve never had an issue with Amex acceptance inside the US.
Sure I may run into the occasional business that doesn’t take it but you have another card for that. It’s mainky overseas that it’s spotty.

The rewards structure is great and they are generous with cL’s and points

Re: New User - CSP/TY Premier

bondsandloan — Sat, 25 Aug 2018 17:19:53 GMT

OTA counts as travel for Citi. It comes under their tag "other travel" incl travel agents for 3x TYP.