topic Re: No more luv for US Bank!! in Credit Cards

No more luv for US Bank!!

valley_man0505 — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 17:46:53 GMT

Well, I am going to see if I can get through this whole post without using any profanity. Everything has been going great for me lately--bought a new house, my scores have been skyrocketing, and I finally got my secured US Bank CC "upgraded" to unsecured after 19 months. Oh, wait, it turns out that last one wasn't such a great thing. I had an $1100 CL on my secured card for the entire time it was open. I finally got it unsecured last week and they sent me my new unsecured card with the same $1100 limit. I activated the new card yesterday and the $1100 CL was confirmed again. Today, I logged into my account and my limit was down to $900. I called to find out why and they said that even though my CL was $1100 with my secured card, after review of my credit, they determined that I only deserve $900 on an unsecured card. I asked why they issued the card with an $1100 limit then since they had already reviewed my credit in making the decision to upgrade me--why didn't they issue the card with a $900 CL right from the start then?. They said that they initially only determined whether or not I was "good enough" for an unsecured card and sent me a new card immediately with the same limit even though they had not actually reviewed things in depth enough to determine what the new limit would be.

I asked them what the benefit of being "upgraded" was then since my limit is now lower than what it was when I was secured. They said, "well, you will no longer be charged the $35 annual fee" and reminded me that I will get my deposit back. While getting my deposit back is nice, I need as much available credit as possible cuz I use this card to cover travel expenses for work and I am often gone for a week at a time. I explained this to them and asked if I could return to secured. They said I could only do this by re-applying for a secured card and they would then open a new account...meaning my AAoA would drop and I would have 12 more months of getting dinged for "new credit". And, of course, I would then have to wait a minimum of 12 months all over again before that card would have a chance to be "upgraded". Their "solution" was that I could overpay the account by a up to $500 and that they would count that as available credit, so I could get up to $1400 of available credit on the account. However, only the $900 CL would report to the CRA's, meaning that I could have my card at 64% UTL, but the CRA's would see this as 100% (or more if I went over $900).

I know $200 CLD isn't that much, but the principle of thing has me EXTREMELY upset. I am trying so hard to fight the urge to march to the bank and cancel my checking account and my CC, but I know that would hurt me even more from a scoring standpoing and really wouldn't prove anything to them...they aren't exactly going to miss my business.

AAAAGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Message Edited by valley_man0505 on 04-18-2009 10:46 AM

Re: No more luv for US Bank!!

Anonymous — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 18:02:59 GMT

If I were u I would just keep the card because I think it will eventually it will get better down the road. I think once u go from secure to unsecure they still kinda keep u under the radar. Just give it 6 Months and see how your CLI looks.

Re: No more luv for US Bank!!

Anonymous — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 19:42:42 GMT

Hi Valleyman

I'm sorry for your CLD...I know how personal we all take these things, but I agree with the poster above. You need to hold on to this card, continue to show US Bank how responsible you are, let any baddies on your report age off, and possibly apply for a cc with another company.

There has been a lot of discussion on this board about credit unions. Perhaps you could start a relationship with a local one, use your refunded money from US Bank to open a savings account and use that to secure a credit card with them. Please read Moondogs post below. It's one of the best I've read here about how to establish good credit.

Good luck to you, and congratulations on your new home!

http://ficoforums.myfico.com/fico/board/message?board.id=creditcard&message.id=144356#M144356

Message Edited by VEEnVEGAS on 04-18-2009 12:42 PM

Re: No more luv for US Bank!!

Anonymous — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 18:46:01 GMT

hey valley man -

condolences on the problems with US Bank. That's too bad....most people have said good things about them. Anyway, I would highly suggest going with Alliant or PenFed CU (or Navy Fed if you qualify).

US Bank seems to have some CU qualities, but it is still a bank, investor owned and subject to all the bank personality traits (though better than many).

What does your CR and FICO look like? Especially on EQ?

Had you gone the same route with Alliant or PenFed, if your CR isn't pure evil and FICO was improving and you have stable income, I am confident that you would have gotten an CLI, not CLD.

While some banks are good.....these days, CU's are better for personal finances. They are member owned, focused on member services, keeping costs down and delivering better rates.

Re: No more luv for US Bank!!

jmbfl — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 18:57:48 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
hey valley man -

condolences on the problems with US Bank. That's too bad....most people have said good things about them. Anyway, I would highly suggest going with Alliant or PenFed CU (or Navy Fed if you qualify).

US Bank seems to have some CU qualities, but it is still a bank, investor owned and subject to all the bank personality traits (though better than many).

What does your CR and FICO look like? Especially on EQ?

Had you gone the same route with Alliant or PenFed, if your CR isn't pure evil and FICO was improving and you have stable income, I am confident that you would have gotten an CLI, not CLD.

While some banks are good.....these days, CU's are better for personal finances. They are member owned, focused on member services, keeping costs down and delivering better rates.

Presumptively OP was on a secured card with US Bank for a reason - the kind of reason that does not bode well when contemplating doing business with PenFed. It is very easy for those of us with FICO's over 700 and relatively clean CR's who have had success with PenFed to overlook the fact that they are credit sticklers.

Re: No more luv for US Bank!!

Anonymous — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 19:05:39 GMT

@jmbfl wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
hey valley man -

condolences on the problems with US Bank. That's too bad....most people have said good things about them. Anyway, I would highly suggest going with Alliant or PenFed CU (or Navy Fed if you qualify).

US Bank seems to have some CU qualities, but it is still a bank, investor owned and subject to all the bank personality traits (though better than many).

What does your CR and FICO look like? Especially on EQ?

Had you gone the same route with Alliant or PenFed, if your CR isn't pure evil and FICO was improving and you have stable income, I am confident that you would have gotten an CLI, not CLD.

While some banks are good.....these days, CU's are better for personal finances. They are member owned, focused on member services, keeping costs down and delivering better rates.

Presumptively OP was on a secured card with US Bank for a reason - the kind of reason that does not bode well when contemplating doing business with PenFed. It is very easy for those of us with FICO's over 700 and relatively clean CR's who have had success with PenFed to overlook the fact that they are credit sticklers.

No presumption whatsoever. Possibly they would only get a savings account. With some cash in savings and Direct Deposit, there is little chance of not getting approved for secured loans through a credit union, if not PenFed, then another.

Building up a year or more of reliable "inhouse" relations has a lot to do with ongoing relations.

In addition, I DID ask what their CR and FICO looked like. But if US Bank approved a secured card, what makes you think the CU would not.

Apples to apples, my theory stands....that a CU would do no worse and would provide possibly better.

Re: No more luv for US Bank!!

jmbfl — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 19:37:42 GMT

Lots of folks have posted here with regard to their being declined for a secured credit card with PenFed.

Of course people can forge relationships all they want. Most CU's will hard you when you join. You also have to have some spare money to leave sitting around. It is a little bit hard to focus on "eventually" when you are strapped for cash, trying to get back on top of your credit situation and need a credit card so you can function effectively on a day-to-day basis.

When I was rebuilding I started out with an auto loan from a very large regional CU. Was it PenFed - NO! Did it cost me three hard inquiries - YES! I am happy now (almost 2 years later) that I did it. That loan was the cornerstone of my entire rebuilding program. However, had I gone to PenFed at that point in time I would have been kicked to the curb so fast and hard I'd still be smarting.

Re: No more luv for US Bank!!

Anonymous — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 19:45:35 GMT

@jmbfl wrote:
Lots of folks have posted here with regard to their being declined for a secured credit card with PenFed.

Of course people can forge relationships all they want. Most CU's will hard you when you join. You also have to have some spare money to leave sitting around. It is a little bit hard to focus on "eventually" when you are strapped for cash, trying to get back on top of your credit situation and need a credit card so you can function effectively on a day-to-day basis.

When I was rebuilding I started out with an auto loan from a very large regional CU. Was it PenFed - NO! Did it cost me three hard inquiries - YES! I am happy now (almost 2 years later) that I did it. That loan was the cornerstone of my entire rebuilding program. However, had I gone to PenFed at that point in time I would have been kicked to the curb so fast and hard I'd still be smarting.

The right tool for the job....and PenFed is not necessarily the right tool. My point was that there very well is a Cu that is.

Also, maybe I am not understanding your point, but if "strapped for cash" you should not be seeking/using credit. Credit is not and income alternative.

And for those who do not have a 'lump of cash' to set aside, many CU's have a credit builer loan program in which they "loan you" the savings amount: They put $500 to $1500 in your savings and then use the loan proceeds as the collateral. You pay the loan off to create a tradeline and payment history. At the end of the loan, you have the original loan amount in savings and a jump start on credit. You will have paid some interest, but that is what credit is.

Re: No more luv for US Bank!!

jmbfl — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 20:46:03 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
The right tool for the job....and PenFed is not necessarily the right tool. My point was that there very well is a Cu that is.

Thanks for conceding my point. I didn't interject PenFed. You did.

@Anonymous wrote:
Also, maybe I am not understanding your point, but if "strapped for cash" you should not be seeking/using credit. Credit is not and income alternative.

I will bear that in mind the next time I am contemplating purchasing a car or a home.

The OP's stated purpose for needing this CC was to pay his work related T&E expenses. I can perfectly well understand his situation. Many employers do not provide their employees with CC's for this purpose, compelling them to fund these expenses out their own resources. Of course the employer will reimburse these amounts in a week, or two, or a month or sometimes eventually. Floating the company's T&E costs for them has left many employees "strapped for cash",

In this particularly circumstance I was specifically talking amount having excess amounts of cash-on-hand to place on deposit at financial institutions to further "relationship building".

@Anonymous wrote:
And for those who do not have a 'lump of cash' to set aside, many CU's have a credit builer loan program in which they "loan you" the savings amount: They put $500 to $1500 in your savings and then use the loan proceeds as the collateral. You pay the loan off to create a tradeline and payment history. At the end of the loan, you have the original loan amount in savings and a jump start on credit. You will have paid some interest, but that is what credit is.

You've got this a little bit backwards. The accountholder puts their money into a deposit account and then the institution issues them a loan secured by that account. If you don't have the money to deposit in the first place, you don't get the loan. (Banking regulators take a pretty dim view of the practice you have described.) Yes, it helps you build credit, but it requires you to have the funds in the first place. The institution is also making money from the loan.

Message Edited by jmbfl on 04-18-2009 01:46 PM

Re: No more luv for US Bank!!

Anonymous — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 23:09:06 GMT

jmbfl -

1. I'm not attemting to argue with you, I provided input and my opinion which any and all are welcome to disregard completely without any ill will on my part

2. I was not plugging a particular CU, though I did name 3 as examples. And while PenFed may not immediately provide a secured card, they may very well provide a savings secured loan in order to establish the initial loan relationship. And since PenFed is often stated as a "goal" by many, why not start the relationship early on and during the building years, even if it will require baby steps?

3. The OP all ready had a secured card and even stated they would have preferred to return to a secured card in order to have a greater limit (which would be matched by the savings amount) so the "strapped for cash" did not apply. They were more concerned with new account AAoA impact and the convenience of available credit. They also mentioned the ability to overpay by $500, but were concerned how spending amounts beyond the reported CL would impact FICO.

4. I personally believe and advocate that if you don't have any savings, can't/aren't able to save and won't be able to save, then credit is the least of the problem and most definitely not the solution.

5. How does "strapped for cash" and unable to save, relate to "next time" buying a home or car? Both such transactions would generally require or at least be well advised to have savings (down payment) and some spare cash flow in addition to established credit.

6. Not all CU's offer the credit builder program which I described....but those that do, do exactly as I stated. They loan (advance) you the savings to begin with, meaning you put zero cash down....so no, I don't have it backwards....just not all CU's have the program.

Here are a couple links to CU's that advertise the program as I described (but not all CU's who may provide them advertise it, so ask yours to be sure if they do or do not):

http://www.mitfcu.org/home/loans/credit

http://www.prairietrailcu.org/asp/products/product_5_4.asp

https://www.freedomfirstcu.com/credit-rebuild.html

http://www.denvercommunity.coop/DCFCU_loans_credit_builder.html

http://www.mazuma.org/services/credbuilder.htm

https://www.parkfcu.org/loans/other-loans.htm

http://www.langleyfcu.org/personal/financial-assistance/credit-builder.html

https://www.baptistcu.org/loans/

https://www.nevadafederal.org/loans/personal.aspx

http://www.nuestro-banco.com/creditbuilder.htm

7. Please explain your "regulators take a dim view" theory. Many CU's provide such advance type, secured loans and don't seem to have any regulatory issues that I am aware of.

8. It is my 'opinion' that far too many people use credit as a type of savings, rather than having savings as part of the basis of being credit worthy. I don't infer that my way is yours, nor that mine is best, but it is my opinion and best for me and I have express all such opinions as just that, opinions. It is for this reason that I suggest beginning the relationship with a CU even if just with savings to establish your savings habits and thus providing additional incite to the CU when considering credit.

I hope that my comments are not being taken as argumentative in nature nor intended to offend. But I do like to make sure that I am not misunderstood and I like clarification for accuracy purposes.

Message Edited by txjohn on 04-18-2009 04:09 PM

Re: No more luv for US Bank!!

valley_man0505 — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 17:02:19 GMT

Ok, some updates for everyone. First off, for those of you asking, my EQ FICO is 751. However, my TU is only about 615 since there is a large (almost $6000) CapOne CO on there that is factored into my UTL, putting it OVER 100% even though my actual revolving UTL is only about 20%. For some reason, this CO is not factored into UTL on EQ or EX. Also, I have one collection (paid) reporting on TU and EX that is reporting as a credit account on EQ making it look as if I have 0 collections on EQ. I would ESTIMATE that my EX FICO is around 650-700 based on what I saw when we could still pull that score.

The killer for me here is that they pulled EQ only when they made the decision to unsecure my card, which would have been a good thing...except...shortly (a day or two)after they unsecured me, they also pulled TU. The main difference between TU and EQ is the score due to the way the way the CO is handled on TU. The low TU score is what made them CLD me.

As I said earlier, the main reason I was mad about this (other than just the principle of the thing and feeling insulted) is that I need a card with a large limit for work related travel expenses. Not because I am strapped for cash, but because I need availale credit for travel so that I can put a week's worth of travel on one card, turn in my expense report and CC statement, and get reimbursed. It gets exponentially more difficult if I have everything spread between a couple of smaller cards. Since, in the past, a typical trip has costed an average of $800 - $1200, you can see why the difference between the original $1100 limit and the new $900 limit, although only $200, is actually significant because this is going to mean that I will have to put a lot of my trips on more than one card.

Anyway, it may turn out that all if this will not matter anymore--I was approved for a Cabelas Visa. I am still waiting for the card and was not told my limit yet, but, the account did hit my EX report yesterday and is showing a $3500 CL!

Now, I can tell US Bank to shove it!! And, by "shove it", I mean pay it off and carefully place the card in a sock drawer and use only enough to keep it active until they CLI me someday since this card COULD someday be my best card--I know, not exactly "shoving it", but it feels good to say right now

ETA: The funny thing is that I realized that US Bank is still using the "derogatory interest rate" that was used on my secured card after I went over the limit once (the AF was not charged when I expected it to be and it put me a couple dollars over the limit when it unexpectedly hit). So, they told me that they treated the process of unsecuring the card as if it was opening a brand new account and that is why my old limit and old history did not factor in to their determination of my new CL--however, apparently my old history does factor in when they can use it as an excuse to charge a higher interest rate.

ETA^2: In the defense of US Bank, I put gas in my gas guzzler truck BEFORE I knew about the CLD. The transaction did not post until AFTER the CLD and BEFORE the recent $800 payment I made (actually it posted the same day as I made my payment, but they payment didn't immediately post). This resulted in an over limit fee. I called and explained that his transaction occured before my CLD and they did actually remove the OL fee without any resistance.

Message Edited by valley_man0505 on 04-27-2009 09:41 AM

Message Edited by valley_man0505 on 04-27-2009 10:02 AM

Re: No more luv for US Bank!!

ocheosa — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 17:16:23 GMT

Hello VM,

Sorry to hear of the troubles you have experienced with US Bank. I've actually always loved US Bank (& Discover) because they only pull TU (always my best score). The majority of banks & credit unions pull EX or EQ for NJ.

Have you tried calling an analyst to explain the TU problem (factoring in the old charged off tradeline)? They like scores over 700, but not sure how they are reading the charge off. Anywho at this point it could not hurt to try. 1-800-947-1444 will get you to US Bank underwriting dept.

If they decide to keep you at the same CL do not despair...call in every 6 months for a CLI. For my accounts (x2) I receive a $1,500 CLI every 6 months. (Last few years it was qtrly, but the policy has since changed).

Also, check your statement in about 3-6months, they slowly lower the APR.

Good luck!

Message Edited by ocheosa on 04-27-2009 10:16 AM

Re: No more luv for US Bank!!

Creditaddict — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 17:57:50 GMT

be careful with cabelas, they can be touchy especially lately.

Usbank will come around, call them in 6 months and ask for the cli without credit pull, usually $1500

Re: No more luv for US Bank!!

valley_man0505 — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 18:23:34 GMT

@ocheosa wrote:
Hello VM,

Sorry to hear of the troubles you have experienced with US Bank. I've actually always loved US Bank (& Discover) because they only pull TU (always my best score). The majority of banks & credit unions pull EX or EQ for NJ.

Have you tried calling an analyst to explain the TU problem (factoring in the old charged off tradeline)? They like scores over 700, but not sure how they are reading the charge off. Anywho at this point it could not hurt to try. 1-800-947-1444 will get you to US Bank underwriting dept.

If they decide to keep you at the same CL do not despair...call in every 6 months for a CLI. For my accounts (x2) I receive a $1,500 CLI every 6 months. (Last few years it was qtrly, but the policy has since changed).

Also, check your statement in about 3-6months, they slowly lower the APR.

Good luck!
Message Edited by ocheosa on 04-27-2009 10:16 AM

Unfortunately, I have already tried the underwriting department and they wouldn't budge. They never admit to using your actual score as a deciding factor--they always say that it is the information on the report and not the actual score that determines what they can and can't approve. They probably said that as they were staring at some chart in their office showing different FICO tiers.

As for my APR, they said the derogatory rate will end in October since that will be the one year anniversary of going over the limit due to the unexpected annual fee. The way it sounds, I would be surprised if anything happened before that.

Re: No more luv for US Bank!!

valley_man0505 — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 18:25:57 GMT

@Creditaddict wrote:
be careful with cabelas, they can be touchy especially lately.
Usbank will come around, call them in 6 months and ask for the cli without credit pull, usually $1500

What do you mean by "touchy" in regards to Cabelas? CLD's? Other AA?

I agree that US Bank will definitely come around eventually and I want to stay on good terms with them since they are the only "prime" CC I have right now. I definitely don't want to burn that bridge. Up until now, I have actually had nothing but good experiences with them and I have also seen all the positive comments on myFico about them, too.

Re: No more luv for US Bank!!

ocheosa — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 18:35:01 GMT

@valley_man0505 wrote:

Unfortunately, I have already tried the underwriting department and they wouldn't budge. They never admit to using your actual score as a deciding factor--they always say that it is the information on the report and not the actual score that determines what they can and can't approve. They probably said that as they were staring at some chart in their office showing different FICO tiers.

As for my APR, they said the derogatory rate will end in October since that will be the one year anniversary of going over the limit due to the unexpected annual fee. The way it sounds, I would be surprised if anything happened before that.

Well Kudos to you for trying a recon!!!!

Give them a little time, it gets better... In October when you get the APR lowered, ask the customer service rep for the internal CLI. It'll be a 2fer phone call !!

BTW, CONGRATS on the Cabela's Visa!!! Whoo Hoooo! I've purchased from their website..great pricing on ammo.

Re: No more luv for US Bank!!

Creditaddict — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 00:38:33 GMT

My cabelas was CLD from 3k to $1500 while it was in the mail.

At 4 months I asked for CLI and got CLD down to $1000.

Last week it 9 months and on review they closed my entire account.

then 4 days later my parents (in the 700;s) had there over 10 year old cabelas card closed also!

They review your credit every 3 months and if they don't like something count it gone

Re: No more luv for US Bank!!

valley_man0505 — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 15:43:08 GMT

CLD while in the mail? Wow. That scares me because I have not received my card in the mail yet and it has been 2 weeks since my application was approved. I just moved into my new house, but I still have my apartment til the end of this month as well. When I filled out the app, I used my apartment address to be sure it wouldn't look strange since my new house address was not showing on my credit reports yet. Now, my mail is already being forwarded from the apartment to my house and I am worried that the card is not going to be forwarded. I have been worried that if I call them and tell them I need to change the mailing address right away, that it may trigger some sort of fraud alert in their system or something.

Re: No more luv for US Bank!!

Creditaddict — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 18:10:30 GMT

It sure would be a big trigger but think your going to have to bite the bullet and do it because I don't believe credit cards forward in mail.

Re: No more luv for US Bank!!

ocheosa — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 18:42:36 GMT

valley_man0505 wrote:
Now, my mail is already being forwarded from the apartment to my house and I am worried that the card is not going to be forwarded. I have been worried that if I call them and tell them I need to change the mailing address right away, that it may trigger some sort of fraud alert in their system or something.

Call your local USPS branch and ask. There is nothing on the envelope that states no forwarding, but could be policy. If they cannot forward you can ask that they hold any non forwarding mail for pickup. This would work out well if you are in the general area. Could be a nightmare if you've moved more than 30 mins away. (For me anyway).

Congratulations on your new home!