topic Re: Domestic Credit Card Transaction Required PIN in Credit Cards

Domestic Credit Card Transaction Required PIN

UncleB — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 03:10:08 GMT

My post office has just replace the self-serve kiosk with a new version. It works basically the same, but one notable difference is that the new machine reads the chip on credit cards instead of the magnetic stripe (you have to leave the card in the slot while it's processing).

The new kiosk asked for my credit card PIN. For a moment, I thought I had inserted my debit card by mistake, but I hadn't... it was asking for the PIN for my USAA Limitless Visa. I entered my PIN, and after a few moments my receipt came out.

I know that PINs are used overseas and for some specific cards domestically (Diner's Club, etc.) but this is the first time I've been prompted to enter a PIN for a credit transaction. Had I not assigned a PIN to the card I don't know if the transaction would have been processed or not, but I guess from now on I'll need to set a PIN on new cards when the option is presented.

Notably, my new Sam's Club MasterCard came last month, and on activation I was offered the chance to set a PIN for it as well... I almost didn't bother (I'll never use the card at an ATM) but I went ahead and set one; now I'm glad I did.

I'm interested to see if anybody else has had a domestic credit card transaction ask for your PIN for a credit card that isn't known for that. I personally don't mind it, at least as long as my cards with no PIN assigned will still work.

Re: Domestic Credit Card Transaction Required PIN

NRB525 — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 04:07:21 GMT

There have been some recent incidents where a CC asked for PIN at a POS terminal, but as they were not PIN relevant cards, I just press the Enter key with nothing in the PIN field, and it went through. I will have to pay closer attention where these are.

Diners, of course, frequently insists on PIN.

Re: Domestic Credit Card Transaction Required PIN

UncleB — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 04:14:38 GMT

@NRB525 wrote:
There have been some recent incidents where a CC asked for PIN at a POS terminal, but as they were not PIN relevant cards, I just press the Enter key with nothing in the PIN field, and it went through. I will have to pay closer attention where these are.

Diners, of course, frequently insists on PIN.

I'll have to try it like that next time (just hit enter).

When I got home I took a better look at the receipt, it even says "Visa Credit" and "Verified by PIN".

I don't really mind entering the PIN, but I do like consistency, which since the chip cards came out is pretty much out-the-window anyway. I've gotten to where I just ask up-front now "chip or swipe?" when I'm paying somewhere new.

Re: Domestic Credit Card Transaction Required PIN

Anonymous — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 04:44:21 GMT

Oh no...that kiosk is my BBF, but I don’t think I know a single cc pin except NFCU and Penfed. I woulda been sol if the pin is required and I didn’t have my full wallet.

Re: Domestic Credit Card Transaction Required PIN

UncleB — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 05:13:58 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Oh no...that kiosk is my BBF, but I don’t think I know a single cc pin except NFCU and Penfed. I woulda been sol if the pin is required and I didn’t have my full wallet.

Yeah, my first thought was 'uh oh!' since I'm not in the habit of setting PINs on most cards; as luck would have it I do have a PIN set for my Limitless.

I like the kiosk as well, but the jury is still out on the new one. On the old one I could 'force' it to print a smaller label but the new one seems to just spit out the large label by default, which is a PIA if you already have the address on the package as I usually do. (Sorry, off-topic there... LOL.)

Also, the new kiosk has markings for NFC but it doesn't seem to be turned on, at least at my location (I tried both Samsung Pay and Google Pay, it didn't respond to either.)

Re: Domestic Credit Card Transaction Required PIN

staticvoidmain — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 06:03:38 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Oh no...that kiosk is my BBF, but I don’t think I know a single cc pin except NFCU and Penfed. I woulda been sol if the pin is required and I didn’t have my full wallet.

Barclays. My Uber Visa card has PIN. Also, this filtered list (online/offline) , offline, online.

Re: Domestic Credit Card Transaction Required PIN

Anonymous — Mon, 24 Sep 2018 01:51:24 GMT

UncleB thanks for the "heads up"! My post office replaced their equipment too. So far it has not asked for a PIN. Note, I do have the USAA Limitless Visa and I will have to try that. If you remember back to say 2010, USAA issued credit cards that had the PIN option on their USAA World MasterCards for those who needed it for overseas (like US Military Members) but, you had to request the card or it came set up for the Signature format (had such a card but did not use it as a Chip & PIN).

Re: Domestic Credit Card Transaction Required PIN

Anonymous — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 16:23:41 GMT

wrote:
Yeah, my first thought was 'uh oh!' since I'm not in the habit of setting PINs on most cards; as luck would have it I do have a PIN set for my Limitless.

Same here, I've never set a PIN for any CC. I never use them at ATMs simply because of the hefty fees associated with CAs.

Which is why I'm nervous about the upcoming changes, I don't really want PIN acces on my CC and mistakenly have a CA withdraw.

I get that it's a common thing overseas, and had planned on doing this for one or two cards to use while there. But for it to become commonplace here, it is definitely going to be different. Though it should only be an issue at those automated kiosks, not at normal POS.

Re: Domestic Credit Card Transaction Required PIN

UpperNwGuy — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 16:53:19 GMT

This is wonderful news! I hope it means that the age of chip+PIN is finally starting in the US. It has worked very well in the rest of the world for a couple of decades. It's about time the US got with the program.

Re: Domestic Credit Card Transaction Required PIN

staticvoidmain — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 19:34:51 GMT

@UpperNwGuy wrote:
This is wonderful news! I hope it means that the age of chip+PIN is finally starting in the US. It has worked very well in the rest of the world for a couple of decades. It's about time the US got with the program.

Yeah, then maybe we can hope for contactless (with random PIN) in 20 years.

Re: Domestic Credit Card Transaction Required PIN

MASTERNC — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 19:56:57 GMT

Same thing happened to me today with the same card (I knew I had set up a PIN so I just used it rather than trying to bypass). Also a new USPS kiosk.

Re: Domestic Credit Card Transaction Required PIN

Anonymous — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 21:24:35 GMT

Interesting that this is at USPS, possibly a preemptive of laying off Human workers in the future. We all know how they are struggling financially.

Re: Domestic Credit Card Transaction Required PIN

UncleB — Mon, 24 Sep 2018 05:33:05 GMT

For those interested, I went back to the post office (I love going at night... I can take my time) and I used the kiosk again with the same USAA Limitless Visa.

This time I tried to bypass the PIN by hitting 'enter', and I got a message on the screen (paraphrasing) that PIN bypass wasn't available for unsupported cards, and that I needed to select another payment method. I simply removed and reinserted the same card, entered the PIN, and the transaction was approved.

I still don't know what would have happened had I not previously assigned a PIN to the card, but it appears that with the USPS kiosk if it asks for the PIN you can't bypass it (at least with USAA cards).

For my nerd friends, the TVR on the receipt is 0080048000; using a TVR decoder I get the following:

0080000000 (Byte 2 Bit 8) ICC and terminal have different application versions

0000040000 (Byte 3 Bit 3) Online PIN entered

0000008000 (Byte 4 Bit 8) Transaction exceeds floor limit

Re: Domestic Credit Card Transaction Required PIN

Anonymous — Mon, 24 Sep 2018 07:29:55 GMT

I know that for Diners Club, BMO declines all transactions where the PIN's bypassed, so it wouldn't have mattered even if the kiosk were to allow bypass for it. UNFCU, on the other hand, does allow the PIN to be bypassed (in regular stores, anyway; haven't had the need to go to USPS recently).

As for if there isn't a PIN assigned, it's possible that the card's PIN counter would have come set to 0, which would likely have forced the card to work anyway. This is likely issuer specific, though, and possibly only determinable when the credit line is new.

Re: Domestic Credit Card Transaction Required PIN

Anonymous — Mon, 24 Sep 2018 13:18:07 GMT

I haven't needed stamps in forever, and when I did I'd get the from my SO mom. I do have the Barclay's Uber card and I set a pin when asked, so if this makes a wider rollout I guess I'll be ready.

Maybe a bit OT, but a few posts here mention diners club cards. Is there an actual diners club card or would I be prompted by my Discover Chrome that has a diners club stamp?

Re: Domestic Credit Card Transaction Required PIN

Anonymous — Mon, 24 Sep 2018 14:24:37 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I haven't needed stamps in forever, and when I did I'd get the from my SO mom. I do have the Barclay's Uber card and I set a pin when asked, so if this makes a wider rollout I guess I'll be ready.

Maybe a bit OT, but a few posts here mention diners club cards. Is there an actual diners club card or would I be prompted by my Discover Chrome that has a diners club stamp?

There are actual Diners Club cards. They're Mastercards in the US, unlike in other countries.