topic Re: AMEX Card with High Starting Limit (SL) in Credit Cards

AMEX Card with High Starting Limit (SL)

seattlecredit08 — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 17:21:22 GMT

I would love to hear feedback / recommendations on the following...

Background / Data Points:

I applied and was approved for my first 2 AMEX charge cards in October (Green and Platinum charge cards)
Since October, my EX FICO went up by almost 100 points, presently my EX FICO 8 is around 770
4 inquiries, including 1 AMEX in the last 12 months
AAofA is around 6 years. However, most "serious" accounts were opened in the last 12 months
Close to 0% utilization
I am looking to finally pull the trigger on my first revolver AMEX
- Basic plan is to hopefully get a decent SL out of the gate with SP and then do 3X in 61 days with another SP, right before doing my BIG 2019 app spree
In terms of other SLs, I have a couple of cards with $10K + limits but nothing yet in $15K-20K territory
Income / DTI is sufficient to support another card

AMEX Cards I am considering:

I checked pre-approvals and I am pre-approved for ALL AMEX revolvers (I get message "____, you are pre-approved!")
I don't really have a big need for Delta or Hotel-branded AMEX cards at the moment
So putting those cards aside, I am down to choosing one of these cards:
1. BCE
2. BCP
3. ED
4. EDP
5. Cash Magnet

I have no issue with a reasonable AF
One difference, aside from cashback vs. points and AF I see is the term of 0% interest-- 12 months for Preferred cards (BCP, EDP) and 15 months for others (BCE, ED) (seems counterintuitive by the way!)
My main objective-- get the highest possible SL. Right at the moment, I am a bit less concerned about cash back vs. points as I can probably use both in the grand scheme of things and currently I am optimizing every step for TCL growth (Of course, I completely understand the sentiment "get the card best for your case/ usage scenario..." but I can see benefits to all cards and can adapt my usage accordingly)

Question:

Based on the above, which AMEX revolver (BCE, BCP, ED, EDP, Cash Magnet, something else?) should I apply for?

I will definitely share the results after I apply...

Thanks in advance!!

Re: AMEX Card with High Starting Limit (SL)

HeavenOhio — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 17:45:27 GMT

I think your starting limit will be about the same on any of those cards. For the record, I had two 10k cards in hand, and AMEX started my BCE at 15k.

The big thing to consider is whether you want to get into MR points or cashback. You won't be able to PC (product-change) an MR card into a cashback card, or vice versa.

Also, when did your score rise, and what was the reason? Because you already have AMEX cards, they might approve you based on an old pull.

Re: AMEX Card with High Starting Limit (SL)

FinStar — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 17:46:54 GMT

Is this part of your total "domination" strategy for TCL?

No specific card from your list is really going to be assigned the highest per se as far as SL.

AmEx algorithms will determine the best SL for your overall profile, income sources/DTI, and so forth.

As an aside, my 5th AmEx revolver was approved for $25K (Schwab Investor) and @Mahraja has been approved for other AmEx revolvers with high SLs. Countless other individuals have been approved for decent SLs that support those profiles.

I'm fairly certain you've perused the approvals section to determine that AmEx revolver SLs are not tied to a particular product since folks can be approved anywhere from $500 onward from any of those you've listed.

Re: AMEX Card with High Starting Limit (SL)

Anonymous — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 17:50:37 GMT

Just out of interest: what is the motivation for trying to optimize TCL? IMO, optimizing rewards is more important, which goes to the question of whether to go cashback or MR....

Re: AMEX Card with High Starting Limit (SL)

Remedios — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 17:57:08 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Just out of interest: what is the motivation for trying to optimize TCL? IMO, optimizing rewards is more important, which goes to the question of whether to go cashback or MR....

Utilization padding. OP has been on this quest for a while now. Don't you read every thread???

Re: AMEX Card with High Starting Limit (SL)

seattlecredit08 — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 18:02:27 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Just out of interest: what is the motivation for trying to optimize TCL? IMO, optimizing rewards is more important, which goes to the question of whether to go cashback or MR....

Great question!

I guess I view it as a semi-useless hobby...

So I am definitely aware that high TCL has limited utility in the real world...

As for MR vs. cash back, I already have a couple of good MR and cash back cards (perhaps not as good as 6% on groceries offered by BCP but decent-- PenFed, US Bank, etc.) so I am open to either... as long as I can maximize SL, of course...

And, of course, I will share my experience and my credit journey for what they are worth with everyone here...

Thanks!!

Re: AMEX Card with High Starting Limit (SL)

Anonymous — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 18:02:38 GMT

@Remedios wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Just out of interest: what is the motivation for trying to optimize TCL? IMO, optimizing rewards is more important, which goes to the question of whether to go cashback or MR....
Utilization padding. OP has been on this quest for a while now. Don't you read every thread???

I READ every thread, but I am multi-tasking with my narco-terrorism business so I tend not to take it in..... (Probably should stop one or the other come to think of it.)

Utilization padding. Oh yes, along with the related AZEO, a "solution" in search of a problem. (Just pay early when strictly needed)

Re: AMEX Card with High Starting Limit (SL)

HeavenOhio — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 18:06:25 GMT

Utilization "padding" makes sense if you're looking at each card individually. You certainly want enough of a limit to support your spending on the card. It's makes a lot less sense to look at Card B as a way to offset utilization on Card A.

Re: AMEX Card with High Starting Limit (SL)

FinStar — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 18:06:46 GMT

@Remedios wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Just out of interest: what is the motivation for trying to optimize TCL? IMO, optimizing rewards is more important, which goes to the question of whether to go cashback or MR....
Utilization padding. OP has been on this quest for a while now. Don't you read every thread???

Ah yes the ultimate TCL quest Is this why every thread usually has a question about POI, I wonder?

Re: AMEX Card with High Starting Limit (SL)

seattlecredit08 — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 18:27:43 GMT

@Remedios wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Just out of interest: what is the motivation for trying to optimize TCL? IMO, optimizing rewards is more important, which goes to the question of whether to go cashback or MR....
Utilization padding. OP has been on this quest for a while now. Don't you read every thread???

Actually, not exactly. Utilization padding is more of a big curiosity for me, what I would call a byproduct of my TCL "hobby." By the way, I first got the idea of this hobby from reading the legendary stories of TCL barons on this board...

So utilization padding is not my goal but more of a curiosity. I like to PIF everything and this is actually one issue I have with this hobby-- even with my modest TCL, I already have to manage a decently complex Excel...

As for curiosity around utilization padding, perhaps it also stemms from being over-worried.... In these uncertain times, what if, what if...

Thanks!!

Re: AMEX Card with High Starting Limit (SL)

seattlecredit08 — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 18:33:01 GMT

@HeavenOhio wrote:

Also, when did your score rise, and what was the reason? Because you already have AMEX cards, they might approve you based on an old pull.

It's a very good question-- several very, very old negatives fell off resulting a big score jump.

And, yes, I 100% agree-- one has to be very careful about this--- frequently, AMEX underwriting will be 1 month or so behind.

I have been closely monitoring both my personal pre-approvals on AMEX website and spying on AMEX SPs on my Experian report (by the way-- there is a technique to do it online for anyone is interested...). Based on above data points, my best guess is that AMEX has already plugged in my new improved FICO score into its big AMEX Credit Brain.

Thanks!!

Re: AMEX Card with High Starting Limit (SL)

NRB525 — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 18:39:59 GMT

Well, since you have two MR cards, with substantial AF, my suggestion is to get the ED card. This gets you a revolver, no AF, no conflict with groceries MR earning on Gold, and the potential to get 1.2MR in general spend.

Hopefully you get a good SL, though the length of time with AMEX could be the most important factor.

Was there an answer to how recently your scores ramped up? That is relevant because as an existing AMEX cardholder, your next card is most likely going to use SP data. If that SP is (as commented above) when your scores were lower, the SL will probably be lower than it could be.

Re: AMEX Card with High Starting Limit (SL)

Remedios — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 18:41:10 GMT

@seattlecredit08 wrote:
@Remedios wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Just out of interest: what is the motivation for trying to optimize TCL? IMO, optimizing rewards is more important, which goes to the question of whether to go cashback or MR....
Utilization padding. OP has been on this quest for a while now. Don't you read every thread???

Actually, not exactly. Utilization padding is more of a big curiosity for me, what I would call a byproduct of my TCL "hobby." By the way, I first got the idea of this hobby from reading the legendary stories of TCL barons on this board...

So utilization padding is not my goal but more of a curiosity. I like to PIF everything and this is actually one issue I have with this hobby-- even with my modest TCL, I already have to manage a decently complex Excel...

As for curiosity around utilization padding, perhaps it also stemms from being over-worried.... In these uncertain times, what if, what if...

Thanks!!

I am going to have to disagree based on 5-7 previous threads, except this thread is different because you've lifted TU restriction.

I am not sure why you think you'd be safer in these "uncertain times" by having high unused SL.

Those may be the first ones to go in case of any mishap.

It would be a whole lot better if you stop thinking about it as a 'hobby' and view it as a financial tool.

I would just like to add that those with 'legendary stories of TCL barons on this board' did not acquire them over night or in the course of a year. You said your oldest open TL is around a year old.

You're trying to move way to fast.

Anyway , as always, good luck

Re: AMEX Card with High Starting Limit (SL)

seattlecredit08 — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 18:41:36 GMT

@FinStar wrote:
Is this part of your total "domination" strategy for TCL?

I think "domination" is all relative... I come from very, very humble "credit beginnings" , so what may be my personal "domination" goals would be peanuts / cake walk for the legeds on this board ( @Mahraja , @Gmood1 and others here...)

Thanks!!

Re: AMEX Card with High Starting Limit (SL)

Remedios — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 18:43:56 GMT

I give up

Re: AMEX Card with High Starting Limit (SL)

FinStar — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 19:08:21 GMT

@seattlecredit08 wrote:
@FinStar wrote:
Is this part of your total "domination" strategy for TCL?

I think "domination" is all relative... I come from very, very humble "credit beginnings" , so what may be my personal "domination" goals would be peanuts / cake walk for the legeds on this board ( @Mahraja , @Gmood1 and others here...)

Thanks!!

@Remedios brings up a very excellent point OP. I didn't achieve any of the ~$2.5MM (personal and biz) overnight and I am a high income earner/transactor. A good, solid and flexible strategy is key. Lots of other members with very high and seasoned portfolios like @Gmood1, @Ron1, @Mahraja, @CreditCuriosity, etc., had different strategies for such goals, but I can honestly tell you that it wasn't TCL "domination". Sorry but that Dr Evil reference still plays in my head since you brought up the domination aspect of your hobby.

Also, keep in mind the TCL risks associated with the 'hobby' and today's cyclic environment. Of noteworthy, some of these other 'barons' as you call them, also lost a good chunk of their portfolios due to the aggressive nature of pursuing such goals, I can recall a couple of members whose AA resulted in the loss of their entire Chase and Barclays portfolios, others have lost vast amounts of TCL from Citi, AmEx, SYNCB, Comenity and so on.

Re: AMEX Card with High Starting Limit (SL)

seattlecredit08 — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 20:05:15 GMT

@FinStar wrote:
@seattlecredit08 wrote:
@FinStar wrote:
Is this part of your total "domination" strategy for TCL?

I think "domination" is all relative... I come from very, very humble "credit beginnings" , so what may be my personal "domination" goals would be peanuts / cake walk for the legends on this board ( @Mahraja , @Gmood1 and others here...)

Thanks!!
@Remedios brings up a very excellent point OP. I didn't achieve any of the ~$2.5MM (personal and biz) overnight and I am a high income earner/transactor. A good, solid and flexible strategy is key. Lots of other members with very high and seasoned portfolios like @Gmood1, @Ron1, @Mahraja, @CreditCuriosity, etc., had different strategies for such goals, but I can honestly tell you that it wasn't TCL "domination". Sorry but that Dr Evil reference still plays in my head since you brought up the domination aspect of your hobby.

Also, keep in mind the TCL risks associated with the 'hobby' and today's cyclic environment. Of noteworthy, some of these other 'barons' as you call them, also lost a good chunk of their portfolios due to the aggressive nature of pursuing such goals, I can recall a couple of members whose AA resulted in the loss of their entire Chase and Barclays portfolios, others have lost vast amounts of TCL from Citi, AmEx, SYNCB, Comenity and so on.

All excellent points!!

Just to clarify:

I never used the term "total domination" (correct, me if I am wrong, of course!) I did use the term, in another post, "TCL domination." I think there is a big difference here... It's certainly flattering to know that someone else thinks so highly of my plans but personally I never had and don't have "total domination" ambitions... By the way, I never got into Austin Powers' movies but always liked Dr. Evil memes!
I am fully aware of the dangers and pitfalls of trying to grow TCL too quickly. I think it took folks like @Mahraja about 2-3 years to get to their goals, and that's the most aggressive results with a lot of resources applied toward the goals. My goals are much, much humbler but my timeframe is still about 2+ years.
And BIG Congrats on achieving ~2.5MM TCL!!
Last but not least, I really like these forums and the supportive community that was built over MANY YEARS... I have learned a ton and I hope to be able to contribute whatever I can as I move along my very own HUMBLE "TCL domination" journey (a.k.a. personal and business credit development - I like that actually much better)...

I hope this helps clear things up a bit...

Now back to the original question-- it appears that the consensus here is that AMEX UW algorithm determining SLs is most likely the same or similar for all AMEX revolvers (BCE, BCP, ED, EDP, Cash Magnet). If someone has a difference experience, I would definitely be very curious to know...

Thanks in advance!!

Re: AMEX Card with High Starting Limit (SL)

FinStar — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 20:08:48 GMT

We're here to help and provide guidance as best as possible. Everyone encounters some pitfalls along the way, but if you take the great collective advice from those who have been there, you'll be surprised on how favorable the outcomes would be in your situation. Lots and lots of great advice on these forums.

Now, as far as the choices. Well, just yesterday I saw a 25K MR SUB offer for ED on incognito. But, since this is your potential first AmEx revolver, you can decide which best serves your needs in the interim. I try to maximize the actual benefits of the product beforehand when evaluating it as a whole, the CL is just icing. Believe me, at this stage of TCL if a lender approves me for $5K, for instance, I take it and run. Show me the bennies!

Re: AMEX Card with High Starting Limit (SL)

MrCreditInternational — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 20:45:05 GMT

Sorry but what does TCL mean?

Re: AMEX Card with High Starting Limit (SL)

FinStar — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 20:47:08 GMT

TCL = Total Credit Limit.

Not to be confused with the 90s group...TLC 😄