topic Re: Considering My AMEX Options: Questions in Credit Cards

Considering My AMEX Options: Questions

Anonymous — Sat, 26 Jan 2019 20:38:35 GMT

I'm pretty sure I stiffed Amex for a couple grand a long long (more than 20 years) time ago. But in July 2018 I was approved for a BCE w/500 CL. Note: no "steps" email was sent.

At Days 61, 91, 151 & 183 I was denied a CLI. Yesterday, 191 days after opening the account, I got an email saying they've raised my limit to 1k.

They've also now (wasn't before -- I check periodically) made me pre-approved for most of their CC's (all the co-branded plus the charge cards). I plan to take them up on their offer once I decide what card(s) makes most sense for me. But first I have a couple of questions for the Amex pros:

* Is it true the charge cards don't report to the CRAs unless there's a default? If so, then no affect on my AAoA (thus absolutely no reason not to get one)?

* Is there a no-brainer preference between the Marriott/Starwood properties & reward programs value vs Hilton? I'm not a for-work traveler but would like to hit Europe or Asia once in 2019 & possibly NYC as well. Both plans look appealing to me, assuming I can figure out how to use one.

* Is it worth spending the $450 if only a casual traveler?

* Am I likely to get a scuzzy SL even if I app for one of the "better" co-branded cards and spend the $450?

* How do they collect the $450 -- put it on your 1st statement?

* Can either of those traveler cards be easily downgraded (without hassle/penalty) if I decide travel is not so important in 2020 or beyond?

* Any other Amex advice is also appreciated. Feel free to point out something I've not considered.

Re: Considering My AMEX Options: Questions

wasCB14 — Sat, 26 Jan 2019 21:12:21 GMT

Personal charge cards do report, whether there are late payments or not. I've gotten mixed messages about how balances are treated in terms of utilization.

I don't believe business charge cards report unless there is a late payment. My business revolver doesn't report.

Hilton can be easily downgraded to a no-AF or lower-AF card (wait for the 2nd year's AF to post first, then close it and it will be refunded). There is a strong possibility that the $450 Marriott Amex will not offer the chance to downgrade by the time you want to do so.

Re: Considering My AMEX Options: Questions

Anonymous — Sat, 26 Jan 2019 21:24:12 GMT

@wasCB14 wrote:
Personal charge cards do report, whether there are late payments or not. I've gotten mixed messages about how balances are treated in terms of utilization.

I don't believe business charge cards report unless there is a late payment. My business revolver doesn't report.

Hilton can be easily downgraded to a no-AF or lower-AF card (wait for the 2nd year's AF to post first, then close it and it will be refunded). There is a strong possibility that the $450 Marriott Amex will not offer the chance to downgrade by the time you want to do so.

Thank you for those answers.

Do you have either of the brands (Hilton or Marriott/SPG) and how did you choose one vs the other? Pleased with your choice?

Re: Considering My AMEX Options: Questions

wasCB14 — Sat, 26 Jan 2019 21:42:57 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Thank you for those answers.

Do you have either of the brands (Hilton or Marriott/SPG) and how did you choose one vs the other? Pleased with your choice?

I don't travel enough to earn any meaningful status, and when I do I prioritize a hotel's comfort and convenience over points. I only have the SPG Luxury card because of a great minimum spend bonus and then a series of other offers.

Re: Considering My AMEX Options: Questions

jdbkiang — Sat, 26 Jan 2019 21:51:08 GMT

Charge cards do show on your report and should affect your AAoA. The AF is typically posted on your first statement.

Hilton and Marriott each have their pros and cons and it’s up to you and your preferences to decide. I do think the Hilton Aspire is a much better card than the SPG Luxury though, and if you do stay at a Hilton, Diamond status will be a great perk.

Re: Considering My AMEX Options: Questions

Anonymous — Sat, 26 Jan 2019 22:22:48 GMT

If you are certain you will be traveling overseas, the Amex Aspire card will have greater value than if you would be traveling exclusively in the U.S.
Less competition for status perks from other U.S. residents with newly minted Aspire Diamond status.

Re: Considering My AMEX Options: Questions

Anonymous — Sat, 26 Jan 2019 22:26:48 GMT

@jdbkiang wrote:
Charge cards do show on your report and should affect your AAoA. The AF is typically posted on your first statement.

Hilton and Marriott each have their pros and cons and it’s up to you and your preferences to decide. I do think the Hilton Aspire is a much better card than the SPG Luxury though, and if you do stay at a Hilton, Diamond status will be a great perk.

Okay. Good to know I was incorrect on the charge cards.

Diamond status does seem attractive (although I've also read several posters hating).

Thanks for your thoughts.

Re: Considering My AMEX Options: Questions

Anonymous — Sat, 26 Jan 2019 22:29:45 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
If you are certain you will be traveling overseas, the Amex Aspire card will have greater value than if you would be traveling exclusively in the U.S.
Less competition for status perks from other U.S. residents with newly minted Aspire Diamond status.

I hadn't read elsewhere about especial value for overseas travel, so thank you for that. But I'm also confused about your last statement -- wouldn't I too be considered "newly minted"? I don't follow.

Re: Considering My AMEX Options: Questions

wasCB14 — Sat, 26 Jan 2019 22:56:20 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
If you are certain you will be traveling overseas, the Amex Aspire card will have greater value than if you would be traveling exclusively in the U.S.
Less competition for status perks from other U.S. residents with newly minted Aspire Diamond status.
I hadn't read elsewhere about especial value for overseas travel, so thank you for that. But I'm also confused about your last statement -- wouldn't I too be considered "newly minted"? I don't follow.

A general fact of elite status is that the more people there are who have it, the less it means. The relatively new Amex Aspire makes it very easy for Americans to get Hilton Diamond, so there are more people competing for upgrades, etc. Or Hilton hotels may cut back on what they provide for free to Diamonds...less luxurious lounges and free food, whatever. This is an extreme case, but the same can be said for many hotel loyalty programs and their US credit cards.

So to get value from being Diamond, it helps to go overseas where a smaller share of guests may have Diamond status. There is less competition for upgrades, and hotels may be more accustomed to elites being big spenders and loyal guests, rather than people who just got a CC with a small net AF.

Re: Considering My AMEX Options: Questions

simplynoir — Sat, 26 Jan 2019 22:54:26 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
If you are certain you will be traveling overseas, the Amex Aspire card will have greater value than if you would be traveling exclusively in the U.S.
Less competition for status perks from other U.S. residents with newly minted Aspire Diamond status.
I hadn't read elsewhere about especial value for overseas travel, so thank you for that. But I'm also confused about your last statement -- wouldn't I too be considered "newly minted"? I don't follow.

He simply means the card awards Diamond status on a product that was only introduced last year. New is relative but you get the idea.

Re: Considering My AMEX Options: Questions

Anonymous — Sat, 26 Jan 2019 22:57:19 GMT

Could change in the future, but at this moment I believe that Diamond is currently Hilton's top status.
The good news is that any U.S. resident with a social security number, a good credit score, and the willingness to pay $450 can get Diamond status through Amex Aspire.
The bad news is that any U.S. resident with a social security number, a good credit score, and the willingness to pay $450 can get Diamond status through Amex Aspire.
With Diamond status it is possible but absolutely not guaranteed to get a room upgrade.
In the U.S. there will be increased competition for such perks from cardmembers that received Diamond status from Amex Aspire.
Overseas you will be competing with other travelling U.S. residents that have Aspire.
Europeans traveling in Europe might have Gold status from a credit card or head in bed nights but no Diamond from Amex Aspire for Europeans.

Re: Considering My AMEX Options: Questions

wasCB14 — Sat, 26 Jan 2019 23:00:16 GMT

I'm surprised Hilton hasn't created a new tier already to separate the revenue elites from CC geeks.

Re: Considering My AMEX Options: Questions

simplynoir — Sat, 26 Jan 2019 23:03:08 GMT

@wasCB14 wrote:
I'm surprised Hilton hasn't created a new tier already to separate the revenue elites from CC geeks.

I'm surprised they even offered it in the first place knowing they would make the revenue peeps upset.

Re: Considering My AMEX Options: Questions

Anonymous — Sat, 26 Jan 2019 23:08:47 GMT

"I'm surprised Hilton hasn't created a new tier already to separate the revenue elites from CC geeks."

Me too.
That is why I put all manner of qualifiers around my statements for benefit of people in the future reading this thread.

Re: Considering My AMEX Options: Questions

Anonymous — Sat, 26 Jan 2019 23:19:17 GMT

@simplynoir wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
If you are certain you will be traveling overseas, the Amex Aspire card will have greater value than if you would be traveling exclusively in the U.S.
Less competition for status perks from other U.S. residents with newly minted Aspire Diamond status.
I hadn't read elsewhere about especial value for overseas travel, so thank you for that. But I'm also confused about your last statement -- wouldn't I too be considered "newly minted"? I don't follow.

He simply means the card awards Diamond status on a product that was only introduced last year. New is relative but you get the idea.

I truly did not get it. But after reading was's post and now yours, I understand it to mean it's a relatively new benefit and exclusive to US cardholders thus less likely to face competition for potential benefits overseas. Makes good sense. I'm glad I asked.

Re: Considering My AMEX Options: Questions

jdbkiang — Sat, 26 Jan 2019 23:34:25 GMT

It’s not technically exclusive to US customers. It’s simply that US customers have easier access to Diamond status because of the card. Foreign Hilton customers can still get Diamond status through actual stays and meeting the requirements. Of course, this is far less likely, that’s why there’s less competition overseas.

For now, it’s a great benefit, especially overseas, but like others pointed out, it may not last. The more popular the card becomes, the more likely it will be nerfed.

Re: Considering My AMEX Options: Questions

NRB525 — Sat, 26 Jan 2019 23:42:12 GMT

If you plan to travel to europe, perhaps Hilton or Bonvoy would be useful over there, but I'd have to suggest considering Chase Sapphire, Preferred or Reserve. Many of the hotels available over in europe are not US brands, and a card like CSR will give you points for those, and has more acceptance as a VISA. The SUB on CSR / CSP can also be more easily ( clearly ) applied to use on those hotel stays, though one would need to check the Chase booking app to see how that works.

Another similar option is the US Bank Altitude Reserve. For hotels, similar earnings, perhaps easier redemption, although the question of whether non-US hotels trigger the Real Time Rewards, it perhaps does not.

Re: Considering My AMEX Options: Questions

Anonymous — Sun, 27 Jan 2019 00:40:28 GMT

The value between Marriott and Hilton is going to come down to you as others have said. I'm currently Marriott Platinum and enjoy it. I receive upgrades pretty frequently and have been in some very nice suites in the U.S. and in both Mexico, Europe and Indonesia.

As far as spending $450/$550 for an annual fee, it comes down to if you can make use of the card. Make sure you can use the airline credit, uber credit, and Saks Fifth credit (personal Platinum) that comes with the card. Next, will you make use of the Centurion Lounges, Delta Skyclub Lounges, and Priority Pass Lounges. Another thing is the purchase/return protection... will you put big ticket items on the card?

My first AMEX Card was in April 2015 and they gave me an AMEX Everyday with a $500 CL. I could not get that thing raised the whole time I had it. I eventually applied for the SPG Card and Delta Gold on the same day in March 2016 and got approved for both with a $1k limit. The SPG Card now has a $6k limit and the Delta Platinum (I upgraded it) still sits at $1k. I picked up several other AMEX cards that same year including the Platinum, PRG, and Everyday Preferred (SL $2k now $6k). So overtime, if you choose to stick with AMEX, they will start to treat you well (or at least better).

All of their co-branded cards can easily be downgraded to the lowest version of the same family. Hilton has a no annual fee card while downgrading Marriott/SPG cards will still cost you $95-$99 per year.

Re: Considering My AMEX Options: Questions

HeavenOhio — Sun, 27 Jan 2019 05:53:21 GMT

@Anonymous, personal charge cards report like any other card. They affect your AAoA, AoYA (if applicable), AoOA (if applicable), and number of accounts that are considered new.

What's different from a revolver is how utilization is handled. Most FICO scores ingore charge cards for utilization purposes. The important exception is the Experian FICO 98 family. That's the classic score used for mortgages and its auto and bankcard counterparts. With these scores, the highest reported balance is used as your limit, meaning your utilization will be computed by dividing your current balance into your highest balance.

Re: Considering My AMEX Options: Questions

Anonymous — Sun, 27 Jan 2019 07:58:45 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I'm pretty sure I stiffed Amex for a couple grand a long long (more than 20 years) time ago. But in July 2018 I was approved for a BCE w/500 CL. Note: no "steps" email was sent.

At Days 61, 91, 151 & 183 I was denied a CLI. Yesterday, 191 days after opening the account, I got an email saying they've raised my limit to 1k.

They've also now (wasn't before -- I check periodically) made me pre-approved for most of their CC's (all the co-branded plus the charge cards). I plan to take them up on their offer once I decide what card(s) makes most sense for me.
I walked the same path and in two years, my exporsure with Amex is more than 150k. Just be patient. I encourge you to utilize more in the beginning.
But first I have a couple of questions for the Amex pros:

* Is it true the charge cards don't report to the CRAs unless there's a default? If so, then no affect on my AAoA (thus absolutely no reason not to get one)?
I think you are confused with Business charge cards. Yes Biz cards do not report to personal.
* Is there a no-brainer preference between the Marriott/Starwood properties & reward programs value vs Hilton? I'm not a for-work traveler but would like to hit Europe or Asia once in 2019 & possibly NYC as well. Both plans look appealing to me, assuming I can figure out how to use one.
Hilton Diamond does not have much value unless you stay at high end properties like Conrad or Waldorf. At other properties, including Hilton and Curio, you may get some points and/ or water bottles.
Marriot Silver is a joke. If you are thinking about the status, dont even bother with silver. If you are considering hotels, I would recommend Intercontinental Ambassador. For 200 bucks, you get upgrades at Intercontinental each time. And it will be IHG Platinum. Just google search for benefits.
* Is it worth spending the $450 if only a casual traveler?
Yes, if you stay at Conrad / Waldorf. Now I am getting upgrade button, when I book those properties without asking. For other Hilton family, big NO from my experience.
And there are not many good Hilton family in Northern / Eastern Europe.
* Am I likely to get a scuzzy SL even if I app for one of the "better" co-branded cards and spend the $450?
Depnding on your credit.... I took me a little time to realch 100k with Amex and I spent more than 100k the first year.
* How do they collect the $450 -- put it on your 1st statement?
I think..... Yes. I got Aspire last Apr. 15k SL and growing.
* Can either of those traveler cards be easily downgraded (without hassle/penalty) if I decide travel is not so important in 2020 or beyond? Yes
* Any other Amex advice is also appreciated. Feel free to point out something I've not considered.
Use a lot and pay off on time as usual. Amex will keep offering your more. On top of my current exposure, I have 35k loan offer @9.99% APR sitting there for a while.