topic Re: What's so great about American Express? in Credit Cards

What's so great about American Express?

Peter1142 — Sat, 18 May 2019 15:11:26 GMT

Going through my credit cards, I signed up for a Delta Skymiles card due to a 60,000 bonus miles offer, and now I have 70,000 Miles which is pretty sweet. But, why should I keep using this card? Versus:

Capital One Venture Card - 2% Cash Back for any travel purchase vs 1% Delta Miles (2% only on Delta purchases). 20.15% APR vs 25%.

Citi Double Cash - 2% Cash Back for anything vs. 1% Delta Miles. No annual fee vs. $100/year. 15.24% APR vs. 25%.

Wait why don't I use this card instead of the Venture that has been my spending card for the past few years? This seems the best deal out there.

Discover IT - No annual fee vs $100/year. 1% Cash back with 5% cash back in rotating categories. 15.24% APR vs 25%.

Amex has some of the stingiest rewards of any higher-end card, the highest interest rate of any higher end credit card (even worse than Capital One!), which is bad if you ocassionally need to carry a balance for a month or two, AND the highest annual fees. All of these other cards have frequent balance transfer offers too, if you ever need to finance a costly purchase. For something niche like Delta Miles I would expect much better like 5% or something. Why do people like Amex so much? Is it just a status thing?

Re: What's so great about American Express?

Stralem — Sat, 18 May 2019 15:16:11 GMT

It depends on the individual. As you’ve laid out, American Express (rather the particular product you have from them) isn’t doing it for you. For other people and their needs, Amex works for them. It’s that simple.

Re: What's so great about American Express?

SouthJamaica — Sun, 19 May 2019 15:55:28 GMT

@Peter1142 wrote:
Going through my credit cards, I signed up for a Delta Skymiles card due to a 60,000 bonus miles offer, and now I have 70,000 Miles which is pretty sweet. But, why should I keep using this card? Versus:

Capital One Venture Card - 2% Cash Back for any travel purchase vs 1% Delta Miles (2% only on Delta purchases). 20.15% APR vs 25%.

Citi Double Cash - 2% Cash Back for anything vs. 1% Delta Miles. No annual fee vs. $100/year. 15.24% APR vs. 25%.
Wait why don't I use this card instead of the Venture that has been my spending card for the past few years? This seems the best deal out there.

Discover IT - No annual fee vs $100/year. 1% Cash back with 5% cash back in rotating categories. 15.24% APR vs 25%.

Amex has some of the stingiest rewards of any higher-end card, the highest interest rate of any higher end credit card (even worse than Capital One!), which is bad if you ocassionally need to carry a balance for a month or two, AND the highest annual fees. All of these other cards have frequent balance transfer offers too, if you ever need to finance a costly purchase. For something niche like Delta Miles I would expect much better like 5% or something. Why do people like Amex so much? Is it just a status thing?

I don't think it's prestigious any more. It's just like any other lender.

I wasn't aware that people like it so much, but (a) it's relatively solid and reliable (b) it has a wide variety of offerings (c) it lets you product change easily after 13 months within families of cards (d) it lets you move limits around among cards (e) it usually soft pulls rather than hard pulls when you apply for a new card if you're already a card member (f) it offers soft pull credit limit increase applications, and is relatively generous in granting them (g) the rewards are varied, and some people find them great and some not so great, it depends a lot on your spending habits... i know someone who finds the delta card to be the cats meow for his travel needs... some people love the MR's, I personally haven't found them especially useful (h) some of the cards have awesome perks for frequent travelers... if I was a frequent business traveler I would consider the Amex business platinum to be mandatory... but not being a frequent business traveler I found it was a luxury that didn't really justify the annual fee.

Re: What's so great about American Express?

Brian_Earl_Spilner — Sat, 18 May 2019 15:19:59 GMT

The Delta cards are good for checked bags and airline status. In order to maximize rewards with amex, you need the MR earning cards as well. Same with the Chase trifecta. With enough elbow grease, the system will blow 2% out of the water.

Re: What's so great about American Express?

Anonymous — Sat, 18 May 2019 15:20:10 GMT

@Stralem wrote:
It depends on the individual. As you’ve laid out, American Express (rather the particular product you have from them) isn’t doing it for you. For other people and their needs, Amex works for them. It’s that simple.

Yes (+ a lot of people can't/don't do the calculations and assume some card, e.g. Amex is best for no good reason!)

On OP's Venture vs Citi DC, yes, some of us (including me!) have been pointing out the that venture made little sense after the first year (for the SUB) with a number of free 2% cards out there. (Personally, I now think the Paypal Mastercard is the best, 2% straight away, no min redemption, no FTF, no fee)

But Venture did add transferable miles, so that might change the value prop slightly. But for most, no point in paying the AF for Venture

Re: What's so great about American Express?

Peter1142 — Sat, 18 May 2019 15:21:35 GMT

@Stralem wrote:
It depends on the individual. As you’ve laid out, American Express (rather the particular product you have from them) isn’t doing it for you. For other people and their needs, Amex works for them. It’s that simple.

It's not that simple, I am asking why. Why does it work for them and meet their needs versus other options? I genuinely want to know, why do people like AMEX?

I forgot to add they are the hardest cards to get, too! It's not like they are easy to obtain and good for building credit, either.

Re: What's so great about American Express?

Peter1142 — Sat, 18 May 2019 15:23:05 GMT

@Brian_Earl_Spilner wrote:
The Delta cards are good for checked bags and airline status. In order to maximize rewards with amex, you need the MR earning cards as well. Same with the Chase trifecta. With enough elbow grease, the system will blow 2% out of the water.

Sorry what are the MR earning cards? I am not familiar with this.

Re: What's so great about American Express?

Green456 — Sat, 18 May 2019 15:25:52 GMT

@Peter1142 wrote:
Going through my credit cards, I signed up for a Delta Skymiles card due to a 60,000 bonus miles offer, and now I have 70,000 Miles which is pretty sweet. But, why should I keep using this card? Versus:

Capital One Venture Card - 2% Cash Back for any travel purchase vs 1% Delta Miles (2% only on Delta purchases). 20.15% APR vs 25%.

Citi Double Cash - 2% Cash Back for anything vs. 1% Delta Miles. No annual fee vs. $100/year. 15.24% APR vs. 25%.
Wait why don't I use this card instead of the Venture that has been my spending card for the past few years? This seems the best deal out there.

Discover IT - No annual fee vs $100/year. 1% Cash back with 5% cash back in rotating categories. 15.24% APR vs 25%.

Amex has some of the stingiest rewards of any higher-end card, the highest interest rate of any higher end credit card (even worse than Capital One!), which is bad if you ocassionally need to carry a balance for a month or two, AND the highest annual fees. All of these other cards have frequent balance transfer offers too, if you ever need to finance a costly purchase. For something niche like Delta Miles I would expect much better like 5% or something. Why do people like Amex so much? Is it just a status thing?

Dont forget BoA Cashback 3.3% on all travel and no annual fee.

Re: What's so great about American Express?

Anonymous — Sat, 18 May 2019 15:28:09 GMT

You're comparing an airline card to general spend cards. That's part of the problem. I have the Delta Platinum because of how much I travel but that's for travel perks and the companion pass.

Amex has lots of perks on all of their individual cards that are tailored to the desired/expected spend on them. Besides that they have the 3x CLI and SP increases/approvals which are both very valuable to people that have lots of cards but don't want lots of HP's. People that spend the time to seek value out of the MR program easily eclipse most all other rewards programs other than Chases UR program. All of the Amex cards are super-easy to get and don't have any 5/24 sort of limitations.

If you stop looking at it with such a narrow focus you'll get a better idea; it seems that the only people that attach 'status' to Amex cards are those that haven't taken the time to understand their offerings.

Re: What's so great about American Express?

Anonymous — Sat, 18 May 2019 15:28:25 GMT

It depends on the card. The BCP is the best for people buying from supermarkets. The new Gold is also great for "milenial" spending. Customer support and benefit claims(such as extended warranty) are said to be very easy to process as well although i have no experience on the matter to confirm.

Also i want to point out if you are trying to reap benefits from reward cards APRs should irrelevant to you at any point.(unless of course a big unexpected and unavoidable expense occurs)

Re: What's so great about American Express?

SouthJamaica — Sat, 18 May 2019 15:30:13 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
You're comparing an airline card to general spend cards. That's part of the problem. I have the Delta Platinum because of how much I travel but that's for travel perks and the companion pass.

Amex has lots of perks on all of their individual cards that are tailored to the desired/expected spend on them. Besides that they have the 3x CLI and SP increases/approvals which are both very valuable to people that have lots of cards but don't want lots of HP's. People that spend the time to seek value out of the MR program easily eclipse most all other rewards programs other than Chases UR program. All of the Amex cards are super-easy to get and don't have any 5/24 sort of limitations.

If you stop looking at it with such a narrow focus you'll get a better idea; it seems that the only people that attach 'status' to Amex cards are those that haven't taken the time to understand their offerings.

What are the best ways to seek value out of the MR program?

I've tried to figure them out, but haven't been able to. Every time I redeem them I seem to be getting from 1 cent to less than 1 cent in value.

Re: What's so great about American Express?

Anonymous — Sat, 18 May 2019 15:34:47 GMT

@SouthJamaica wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
You're comparing an airline card to general spend cards. That's part of the problem. I have the Delta Platinum because of how much I travel but that's for travel perks and the companion pass.

Amex has lots of perks on all of their individual cards that are tailored to the desired/expected spend on them. Besides that they have the 3x CLI and SP increases/approvals which are both very valuable to people that have lots of cards but don't want lots of HP's. People that spend the time to seek value out of the MR program easily eclipse most all other rewards programs other than Chases UR program. All of the Amex cards are super-easy to get and don't have any 5/24 sort of limitations.

If you stop looking at it with such a narrow focus you'll get a better idea; it seems that the only people that attach 'status' to Amex cards are those that haven't taken the time to understand their offerings.
What are the best ways to seek value out of the MR program?

I've tried to figure them out, but haven't been able to. Every time I redeem them I seem to be getting from 1 cent to less than 1 cent in value.

I don't actually work the MR system hard enough to know tbh. I know that people with flexible schedules can find stellar travel rewards for higher-tier flights and hotels that escalate the redemption value. I just use them for airline transfers; I recently transferred 35k MR points to Delta to hit the level of miles needed buy my sisters family round-trip tickets to visit me this year.

Re: What's so great about American Express?

Brian_Earl_Spilner — Sat, 18 May 2019 15:35:48 GMT

@Peter1142 wrote:
@Brian_Earl_Spilner wrote:
The Delta cards are good for checked bags and airline status. In order to maximize rewards with amex, you need the MR earning cards as well. Same with the Chase trifecta. With enough elbow grease, the system will blow 2% out of the water.
Sorry what are the MR earning cards? I am not familiar with this.

Amex has a suite of cards that earn Membership Rewards. Those points can be used for various offers (1 point for $30 off a $60 purchase at Amazon) or to transfer to partner cards like airline and hotel. Most of the time, they transfer at between 1-3%, but I've seen savvy users get as much as 7% back. @K-in-Boston would be a person that can really maximize the rewards for travel and I'm sure he can come in here with some examples of possible value.

Re: What's so great about American Express?

pinkandgrey — Sat, 18 May 2019 16:16:32 GMT

In my experience, Amex has awesome customer service, great CLIs, lots of options, and the Plan It feature would be handy in an “emergency.”

Re: What's so great about American Express?

redpat — Sat, 18 May 2019 16:20:04 GMT

OP, you need to do your own research on MR points.

I'm not going to go into great detail but my redemptions range from 1.60x - 10x per MR points. Also, I now get a ton of MR points using eBates and Rockmiles.

Travel rewards will always get you a bigger bang for your dollar vs. cash back on redemptions.

Also, the travel perks on Amex plat beat anyother premium card on the market. I have CSR and still doesn't beat plat.

Re: What's so great about American Express?

Peter1142 — Sat, 18 May 2019 16:23:35 GMT

@pinkandgrey wrote:
In my experience, Amex has awesome customer service, great CLIs, lots of options, and the Plan It feature would be handy in an “emergency.”

Amex did give me so much CL I would be embarassed asking for CLI. How high do they go?

The Plan It thing is pretty cool, I didn't know that existed. Thats definitely earned them some points in my book. I get irregular income sometimes so this is useful.

Re: What's so great about American Express?

Anonymous — Sat, 18 May 2019 16:33:34 GMT

@Peter1142 wrote:
I forgot to add they are the hardest cards to get, too! It's not like they are easy to obtain and good for building credit, either.

As someone that doesn't travel at all, I see almost no value in the Amex product line and personally don't think their cards are any good. My only card with them is the BCE and it's next to useless. I think one of the reasons that Amex cards are somewhat popular at least around this forum is that their growth potential is usually far greater than other cards. One of the only reasons I still have the BCE card for example is because it has a $55k limit that continues to grow at a rate of $5k/6mo.

I also don't think Amex cards carry any additional appeal over other cards today in terms of status like they did back in the 80's when you'd see commercials that made you feel that way at the time. Today they're like any other creditor, IMO.

I disagree with your statement above though that they are the hardest cards to get. I actually think if I had to pick one way to sway I'd put them toward the easier end of cards to get, but pretty much in the middle. I was approved for $10k on the BCE when I only had 1 other CC at the time and it had a $3k limit. I had 4 dirty accounts on my CR with lates as severe as 90-120 days on multiple accounts at the time I was approved. I'm not sure what you mean about Amex cards not being good for building credit.

Re: What's so great about American Express?

Anonymous — Sat, 18 May 2019 16:51:09 GMT

To start off, best customer service by a long shot and it's not close.

I think MR points are very valuable. My whole wallet is Amex and it gives me 2.5% CB for general spend (BBP), 5% for restaurants and grocery (Gold), and of course 5% for AMZ -- I think this is really solid. This is utilizing the Charles Schwab Platinum which gives all kinds of perks. Of course, if you aren't a traveler the fees are a bit high. For my business, I'm getting 5% back on our google advertising (Biz Gold) which is awesome. That alone gives me $4500 a year more than a 2% card would (unfortunately capped at 150 K spend for the 5% tier).

Interest rate? I don't care if it's 90%, I never carry a balance and would never use credit cards if I had to as that is a massive waste of money. Best rewards cards have the highest rates, so you shouldn't use them if you are carrying balances. Personal finance always comes before credit.

Re: What's so great about American Express?

Tonya-E — Sat, 18 May 2019 16:40:08 GMT

I get regular and thorough use out of the BCP card. The cash back can definitely outweigh the fees if you play the categories right. I think it's a great card for cash back rewards, especially when using for groceries and streaming services. That's really the only one I can attest to. I do not get much use out of the BCE. The MR can be used for purchases on Amazon, but Citi offers the same thing. Also if you use it enough within the month and get the 20% tier, it could likely add up. I have never used it enough to do that though. What I can say without doubt is that you don't have to worry about large purchases being scrutinized. I have gotten embarrassed by Chase with large purchase declines. But, I know it is for your protection from fraud so I couldn't give them a hard time. However, having to call in or use the email button to clear it and resubmit still sucks sometimes.

I would say perks for certain cards are what make people gravitate towards Amex.I will even say just the NAME is what attracts some (though that makes absolutely no sense to me if it's not saving you money). But, that is my 2 cents.

Re: What's so great about American Express?

KJinNC — Sat, 18 May 2019 16:53:10 GMT

I have not had an Amex card for 20+ years, I'm currently building/rebuilding from 500s, now in low 600s, but the standard gold Amex charge card is one of my goal cards. The reason is because the rewards fit how I intend to use the card extremely well. Won't bore with the details but there are some particular features of the card that would be great for my situation.

Philosophically, I like charge cards more than credit cards, anyway.