topic Re: Chip and Pin Priority in Credit Cards

Chip and Pin Priority

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 02:48:57 GMT

I am planning on applying for the SDFCU Premium Cash Back+ card. If I am approved, this will be my daily driver. I don't plan on traveling much, but it seems to be a good idea to have chip and pin priority over chip and signature priority.

If I choose to chip and pin over chip and signature will I encounter any problems using it in the US? If I use it at a restaurant will I need to follow the server to the terminal and type in my pin? What about when using it with apps on my phone such as Uber, etc?

I would appreciate any input from others before I apply. Thank you.

[Edited to clarify a question]

Re: Chip and Pin Priority

Shadowfactor — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 02:59:37 GMT

It really depends on how the CC terminals themselves are programmed along with the card type. Yes you could have to follow the waiter to the terminal to enter your pin, but a lot of US terminals are signature based.

Online transactions would not require a pin, nor would Apple Pay transactions AFAIK. Both are considered a form of card not present which shouldn’t trigger the pin request.

I would choose Chip and signature priority if one was to live in the US. It will default to the pin on unattended terminals in other parts of the world.

Re: Chip and Pin Priority

Namaste7 — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 03:13:21 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I am planning on applying for the SDFCU Premium Cash Back+ card. If I am approved, this will be my daily driver. I don't plan on traveling much, but it seems to be a good idea to have chip and pin priority over chip and signature priority.

If I choose to chip and pin over chip and signature will I encounter any problems using it in the US? If I use it at a restaurant will I need to follow the server to the terminal and type in my pin? What about when using it with apps on my phone such as Uber, etc?

I would appreciate any input from others before I apply. Thank you.

[Edited to clarify a question]

My experiences with Chip+Pin in the US

Online transactions (US only) - Functions like any other card--enter the CC number and 3-digit security code and zip
Brick and mortar (including Costco) - You are required to enter your PIN #
Restaurants - No experience

Re: Chip and Pin Priority

creditfan — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 03:17:49 GMT

people happen to have more than one card in their wallet

shouldn't be problem to any where

Re: Chip and Pin Priority

coldfusion — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 03:45:34 GMT

@Shadowfactor wrote:

I would choose Chip and signature priority if one was to live in the US. It will default to the pin on unattended terminals in other parts of the world.

In general terms, if the card doesn't support offline PIN (examples are cards from BoA or Citi) and the terminal is one of the minority that doesn't have an internet connection you can find yourself SOL.

In this particular case i believe this is a non-issue as SDFCU chip & signature priority cards are supposed to support offline PIN (as do BarclayUS, NFCU, and PenFed cards).

Re: Chip and Pin Priority

coreysw12 — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 05:47:40 GMT

I travel a ton in europe & asia, and even UAE. Never had chip+pin on any of my cards, chip+signature has always worked fine. Occasionally, in areas where foreigners like myself don't frequent, the clerk will look confused when the receipt prints out with a signature line on it, but I've never had a difficult time with a credit card transaction anywhere I've been.

Re: Chip and Pin Priority

Gollum — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 06:21:55 GMT

For those who don't know what "chip and PIN priority" means regarding credit cards, I didn't either, so I did an Internet search.

The third hit (using DuckDuckGo.com to search) was a webpage dated March 16, 2018 that satisfied my curiousity: https://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/which-us-issuers-offer-chip-and-pin-card.php

Re: Chip and Pin Priority

Revelate — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 06:51:01 GMT

US restaurants some will default to PIN others it can be swiped just fine.

I have used my First Tech nearly zero but Subway asked for a PIN, a McDonalds drive through just swiped. Somewhere else just swiped too think was the coffee shop across the street. I always have at least two cards on me, so it wasn’t a problem when I couldn’t remember the PIN anyway haha, non-use no muscle memory.

Asia when I went PIN’s were non-existent; I picked up the card such that if I went to Europe I wouldn’t be “that dumb American” holding up the line.

I admittedly sometimes get annoyed when people fumble with cash or checks today and hold things up, I try not to be a hypocrite.

Re: Chip and Pin Priority

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 09:22:08 GMT

@Revelatewhat has been your experience using a chip and pin priority card in the United States? Never see any information on it. Is it easy to use or it is a hassle as the equipment can't process or what? Also, what is your experience in foreign countries (as you mentioned you did not want to be the dumb American)?

We read in this forum how people want/need a chip and pin priority card and never what the actual usage experience is. Sure would be a good bit of knowledge?

Re: Chip and Pin Priority

Revelate — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 10:31:38 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Revelatewhat has been your experience using a chip and pin priority card in the United States? Never see any information on it. Is it easy to use or it is a hassle as the equipment can't process or what? Also, what is your experience in foreign countries (as you mentioned you did not want to be the dumb American)?

We read in this forum how people want/need a chip and pin priority card and never what the actual usage experience is. Sure would be a good bit of knowledge?

In the US if it isn't supported it just swipes, if it is you get asked for a PIN. It's not a big deal either way as long as you know what your PIN is, but I don't know what mine is for First Tech and while I guess I could call and get it reset, hasn't been a priority for me. My once every 1.25 year swipes as it happened aren't enough to justify making that effort. In my case I just apologized and swiped the CSR instead which admittedly caused some delay. The particular merchant POS system had a keypad on it, I have to assume that if a debit card were used it might ask for a PIN too... I guess I could go try that, the Subway is literally downstairs.

What I was referring to was Corey's and other's comments over time in Europe: you swipe the card, the cashier is confused, and anytime you promote confusion you're slowing everyone else down (assuming there's a line); I might not stick out like a sore thumb in Europe and therefore be easily identified like I did in some parts of Asia, but that sort of blithe disregard for others is a hallmark of all the historical stereotypes of American tourists with various insensitivities, and I don't want to be that.

Re: Chip and Pin Priority

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 11:51:25 GMT

@Revelate... believe you may have heard of the book "The Ugly American" novel written by Eugene Burdick and William Lederer that captures some interesting views. Understand your desire to be part of the flow and fit in with the more local environment. It fits with the book writer's perspective.

"The authors hoped to get the message across that Americans, when abroad, need to come to a good understanding of the local culture if anything is to be accomplished. Most Americans go through a change when they travel, isolating themselves and refusing to learn the language or local customs.

While something as simple as the use of a Debit Card, Credit Card or other form of monetary payment does carry a message. When I lived overseas I used all local currency for payment (did not have a credit card).

If the US wants to succeed on the international stage, the authors believe it must learn to behave more like locals, and show more respect to the culture. US diplomats’ inability to blend in and to participate in local culture is a huge detriment to the American image abroad and serves only to hasten interests counter to our own. Learning to listen and respect local culture is the only way to approach modern diplomacy and international relations.

The novel was a hit and a well-timed look at the ways Americans bungle when sent abroad. It reminds us that if we are to live in the world, and hope to make a difference, isolating ourselves and disrespecting the culture we are working in will not cut it."

Re: Chip and Pin Priority

Revelate — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 12:11:44 GMT

I hadn't heard of that book directly but I know this isn't a new view or original thought.

Ultimately as mentioned, I get annoyed when people fumble over payments or other things at the checkout for whatever it is, and I did realize in my travels that there's really no difference between any of us: all worried about the same things, and akin to that probably all annoyed by the same things too.

So if I get irritated by a something, I try not to do that something to irritate someone else... treat others like you want to be treated and all, though I'm sure that point is utterly lost in this context but w/e.

Re: Chip and Pin Priority

digitek — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 12:39:57 GMT

I have the SDFCU Premium Cash Back + card with Chip+PIN priority. I really like it. It's a straight 2% cash back card with no FTF, low APR, cell phone insurance, Chip+PIN priority, and from a really sold CU with low rates on other products, too (I recently got a HELOC through them as well).

The CU can be a little slower than bigger national banks. I'd recommend applying for membership to the CU first and then applying for the card. Both at the same time caused some issues for me. They are conservative so make sure your credit report looks good with few inqs, few new accounts, and in particular they don't like total credit lines that are close to or more than your annual income. Expect a small initial limit.

As far as Chip+PIN priority I have had no problems with it in the states and use it fairly often. Over here the cashier can just bypass PIN if they want and do a signature transaction (or at least I think that is what they do because they never ask me for my PIN). For terminals you work yourself most will ask for your PIN normally like a debit card. I was able to set my own PIN. I've had it not work once on a vending machine type thing at a Science museum.

You can't setup AutoPay from an external account which is kind of annoying I admit. Other than that the web and mobile banking are OK.

Re: Chip and Pin Priority

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 13:03:56 GMT

digitek good information. Confess, I have hesitated to obtain such a card due to a concern it would not work in many US terminals. Now two posters have explained how it works so it puts my concern to rest.

Re: Chip and Pin Priority

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 13:30:42 GMT

@digitek wrote:
I have the SDFCU Premium Cash Back + card with Chip+PIN priority. I really like it. It's a straight 2% cash back card with no FTF, low APR, cell phone insurance, Chip+PIN priority, and from a really sold CU with low rates on other products, too (I recently got a HELOC through them as well).

The CU can be a little slower than bigger national banks. I'd recommend applying for membership to the CU first and then applying for the card. Both at the same time caused some issues for me. They are conservative so make sure your credit report looks good with few inqs, few new accounts, and in particular they don't like total credit lines that are close to or more than your annual income. Expect a small initial limit.

As far as Chip+PIN priority I have had no problems with it in the states and use it fairly often. Over here the cashier can just bypass PIN if they want and do a signature transaction (or at least I think that is what they do because they never ask me for my PIN). For terminals you work yourself most will ask for your PIN normally like a debit card. I was able to set my own PIN. I've had it not work once on a vending machine type thing at a Science museum.

You can't setup AutoPay from an external account which is kind of annoying I admit. Other than that the web and mobile banking are OK.

Firstly, thank you to everyone for the replies.

I have been a member of the SDFCU for six months now, and my last hard pull was six months ago as well. My total CLs are approaching my annual income, so I forsee I may be denied the card due to that. That and student loans.

If so many merchants allow the card to be processed without the pin, is there much advantage to having chip and pin priority if I plan on mainly using it in the US? For my situation, would it be better for me to go with chip and signature priority?

Thank you again, everyone.

Re: Chip and Pin Priority

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 14:51:36 GMT

@Revelate wrote:

What I was referring to was Corey's and other's comments over time in Europe: you swipe the card, the cashier is confused, and anytime you promote confusion you're slowing everyone else down (assuming there's a line); I might not stick out like a sore thumb in Europe and therefore be easily identified like I did in some parts of Asia, but that sort of blithe disregard for others is a hallmark of all the historical stereotypes of American tourists with various insensitivities, and I don't want to be that.

Right. As an expat-Brit, I was at a supermarket (Waitrose) in North London, using my US issued credit card. It spat out a signature slip, and, since outside major tourist areas chip&pin is universal, the cashier didn't have a pen for me to use to sign, and it took some time for one to be found. So apart from slowing others down, it also slowed me down. So PIN priority (I don't think mine was even pin capable at the time) would have been good.

But this is all just inconvenience. The issue people worry about is unattended terminals, such as toll roads, ticket machines at stations, some parking etc. A US card without the correct settings won't work at all, and this can be a big issue.

Re: Chip and Pin Priority

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 14:54:11 GMT

@digitek wrote:

As far as Chip+PIN priority I have had no problems with it in the states and use it fairly often. Over here the cashier can just bypass PIN if they want and do a signature transaction (or at least I think that is what they do because they never ask me for my PIN). For terminals you work yourself most will ask for your PIN normally like a debit card. I was able to set my own PIN. I've had it not work once on a vending machine type thing at a Science museum.

Not the cashier, this is just the negotiation between the POS terminal and the card, as to what verification methods are available and in what order to try.

Re: Chip and Pin Priority

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 15:29:48 GMT

I have too many CC to try and remember all those PINs, so I would definitely not rush into this. For people who only use one card I'm sure it works out well.

As for "dumb American", it's not only us who stumble around when abroad. I see it when foreigners travel here and try to navigate our (at times) chaotic systems.

I also have that rolles eyes moment whenever somone breaks out the chekbook. lol

They definitely have their place/use, but not in the grocery line when the people behind you only have a couple items each. Especially when the store no longer treats it as a check, but as bedit card transaction. These people still haven't gotten the clue on why the cashier keeps handing them the check back.

Re: Chip and Pin Priority

digitek — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 15:50:23 GMT

So I really don't know what is going on when I use the card at payment terminals, but a lot of ones I use myself will still prompt me for my PIN, but never when I hand it to a cashier, I am not positive but I think they can just cancel it and essentially tell the POS to use the next available method which is signature with no PIN involved. The PIN is never used for anything online or 'card not present' transactions.

If you are only using it in the states then I probably wouldn't recommend Chip+PIN priority, but it has only ever caused me an issue one time at an unmanned vending machine in a science museum. I kind of like it.

Re: Chip and Pin Priority

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 18:19:48 GMT

If needed, is one able to use a debit card at unmanned kiosks overseas?

I thought chip and pin would provide additional security here in the US, but it does not appear so.

Thank you.